>>219993
my reasoning behind this (I'm military btw) is that for me to commute to work everyday would cost me quite a bunch. Gas averages about $2.97 per gallon right now, but peaked at $4.99 during that gas crisis not to long ago. Factor in basic maintenance/insurance/wear and tear, and it adds up. As a military man, I'm on a fixed budget with no ability to work overtime, or earn extra income etc.

I assume nobody cares. Thanks for your time.

I really miss San Diego.
I was born and raised there, as for the topic...
Public Transportation has many benefits, when you ignore the faggots who use them.
Passenger:Fuel ratio is amazing
(Fuel/electricity w.e)
=
If everyone used the trolley/bus system as it was intended it wouldn't be so costly.
but there are faggots/douchebags and niggers that fuck shit up for everyone else.
-
-
-
Once again, I really miss San Diego :(

WAITING FOR OP

>>220004
Sorry, thought the thread was dead.

>>220003
good to see another person pro-mass transit. I eagerly await spirited debate vs the pro-car crowd.

>Beneficial to society as a whole?
Yes even if you don't regularly catch it you benefit through
Fewer cars on the road
Less pollution from those cars
Less oil consumed by those cars
Less need for constant road works & freeway construction to keep up with congestion (TAXES!)
Greater economic productivity through people being able to get to work & school and home again cheaply and efficiently
...this of course assumes a well laid out Public Transportation system of various networks:
Commuter Trains to and through suburbia, radiating out from a city center terminal with main lines a hub and spoke arrangement and shorter branching of
Streetcars/Lightrail on the road in the inner-suburbs and urban area and city,
Metro Trains where applicable in a dense enough city, places of a couple million can do fine with just the commuter and streetcar/lightrail, or they might have just one or two or three subway/elevated lines in a small or mid sized place,
Regional Trains to rural areas and towns and so on
Connected in a multi-modal system so you can smoothly interchange: catch a neighbourhood bus and 5-10 minutes later it drops you off at the commuter railway station and a commuter train will be there in a couple minutes if it isn't already, get off the commuter railway station and walk outside and theres a streetcar, get off the commuter train at the main railway terminal and on another platform is a regional train, etc
Something that is few and far between where you've got places that literally have nothing, one token lightrail in the recent gentrified downtown or worse using some freight lines, a badly thought out lightrail network trying to substitute for proper commuter or metro trains, cities with Public Transportation balkanized into a half dozen or more different networks in different parts and areas by county and political fiefs and its impossible to get around because of all the different networks with no coordination of their layout or schedules

>>220017
well stated sir.

nobody else?

up

they love discussing public transportation over in /new/

>>220097
always found that weird, tbh.

i am definitely in favour of expanding mass transit
especially in dense urban areas it is rather stupid for everyone to drive by car; recently i've been to a day trip to amsterdam and before the trip i looked up the p+r possibilities
didn't regret that at all; the price was fantastic (6€/day for unlimited parking, free mass transit tickets for up to 5 persons included) and once i saw how crowded streets were in the center i was glad that i had my car parked outside
same for my daily commute from my home to university (~20km apart); i might take 15 minutes longer, but i don't have to pay for the fuel i would need to drive there by car
here's the twist though; as a student i've got a free pass for unlimited rides on all trains, subways, trams and buses all around my state (nrw, in western germany) for only around 200€ per semester
if i didn't have this pass, transit would be more expensive though and that's the main issue; until now i suppose that for many people transit passes would be more expensive than commuting by car
in my mind however every investment aiming at extending mass transit networks, maintaining the infrastructure or lowering the prices is a good investment

Fuck yeah, mass transit! I love Portland's mass transit, but I fear that it's just gonna go to shit in the next few decades.

>>219993
I'm going to have to nitpick there: No matter what they tell you, that's not a trolley; that's a streetcar/tram. Trolleys have actual trolley poles. The thing in San Diego has a pantograph.

Moving on, I'm all in favor of mass transit. If it was cleaner inside and, in some cities, run on a tighter schedule, I think more people would ride. But no, people spill their cokes, bums stink up the seats, and people get scared away. It's a damn shame.

>>220491
Commuter Trains to and through Suburbia ought to see fairly high frequency in the morning and evening peaks, every 10-15 minutes or better, but for day time and night and such it'll be every 20-40 minutes - basic supply and demand after all
For Regional Trains, if its connecting to a big town or small city you could expect hourly services but for rural towns along a railway you're likely to find twice a day or several times a day
Trams/Streetcars/Lightrail and Metro Trains ought to see 10 minutes and much much less

when i was living with my parents in highschool and had access to a car and free gas i was all like 'yeah mass transit is much better'
now that im on my own and find myself relying on mass transit, i have discovered that nothing beats the privacy, comfort and convenience of having your own mode of transportation. whether that means a car, bike, scooter or private jet.

http://www.klick-game.gauss.livando.com/joke-21.html
jk

It doesn't make sense to *not* have some kind of dedicated-right-of-way mass transit system in a densely populated urbanized area; cars and buses alone simply aren't efficient enough since they require much more space per person and their throughput is limited by the nature of having hundreds of independent drivers on a given section of road at, as opposed to a centralized and automated system like what a typical rail system uses.

Los Angeles is the perfect example of a city that desperately needs to invest in its transit infrastructure, given kinds of commutes its residents have to deal with.

>>219993

Mass transit is at its biggest advantage in areas of very high population density. You see this a lot in the eastern US, since the cities were developed very densely like they were in Europe at the time. Therefore, since there's a very limited walking radius for your average person, it's perfect for subways and buses. That, combined with cars being such an incredible pain in the ass as opposed to other locales, it makes running the mass transit more profitable. However, in Cali, the cities were developed over much larger areas and are of lower density. As much as I'd love to ride around on trains and buses when visiting my family out there, it's just an impossibility because unless I was in the heart of LA, there would be no point because everything is too spread out. I'll just have to stick to riding with my uncle in his Suburban while the hippies are chaining themselves to his tires.

Pic somewhat related: I want one for touring.

captcha: rush opconion

I'm not anti-car, but am still pro-mass transit. If we could make the typical 2 car American family a 1 car family (and make that car used less and last longer), we would all be better off. (Except the car makers, oil companies, etc.)

>>220505
it of course used to have the Red Cars and Yellow Cars

>>220516
No this is wrong
You falsely presume a place needs to be densely packed to warrant public transportation
Because you think only of a city subway/elevated
I live in Melbourne Australia, it is only 4 million people and it is very medium to low density spread out suburban sprawl, the only 'dense' part would be inside the Hoddle Grid and South Bank right in the city centre
just look at this
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1e/Melbourne_Skyline_from_Rialto_Crop_-_Nov_2008.jpg
AND YET we have a large Commuter Train network servicing our Suburbia, multiple railways radiate out in a hub and spoke pattern from a city centre terminal, and we have a large, in fact the largest in the world, Tram network servicing the inner-suburbs / the urban area / city centre.
DMU & locomotive Regional Trains provide links to country-regional Victoria and the big towns of Taralgon (pop 30,000), Bendigo & Ballarat (90,000 each), and Geelong (120,000)

A place doesn't have to be Boston or NYC or Chicago to warrant Public Transportation, just look around the world at medium to small scale places and think about how it could work in the USA.

>>221026

That's not to say there will never be a mass transit system in a low-density area, it's just a matter of cost-effectiveness. Most of these systems are run by some level of government rather than a private venture. The denser the city, the higher the potential amount of riders, and the easier it is to offset the operating costs with the fares. Yeah, sure, there are mass transit systems in low population density areas, but they will be a lot more costly to operate.

>>221034
>commuter trains
>trams
>regional trains
isn't that mass transit?

>>221034
>The denser the city, the higher the potential amount of riders, and the easier it is to offset the operating costs with the fares.
...and harder to build, you can't put a surface level railway inside a city, its going to have be tunnel or elevated and good luck with that.
And why does it have to be private? Melbournes public transportation is privatized and its a mess, ditto BritishRail.
Government operation is not by assumption bad, you've been reading too much Free Market Fantasies.
Government is by the people for the people of the people last time I check and if they want to run it as a utility there we go. SNCF does just fine in France.

great responses here, gentlemen. I myself am neutral on this topic. I love the convenience of a personal vehicle, but I also love all the fun that mass transit brings. I've made really cool friends riding the subway.

Cars will always be superior to mass transit, at least in the American interior. We are a nation built around automobiles. Look at our massive freeways and interstates, for example.

Mass Transit will always be a second class mode of transit in the U.S. Outside of major cities/urban sprawls, it becomes impractical.

>>221776
>>221863
These are problems with the US, not with mass transit. As such, they can be fixed.

>>221972
elaborate, anon

>>222017

suburbanization ruined America

>>222019
Exactly, and if we start to change our development patterns, we can change how useful mass transit is, eventually throwing off the yoke of the automobile.

>>222036
I applaud this idea, but it will be damned near impossible to implement. Allow me to explain:

America has had a love affair with the automobile since it's inception. We began to build our way of life and commerce around this marvel. We built roads and the infrastructure for it.

>>221776

Actually, you were a nation built around the railroad, you just seem to have forgotten this fact.

When the oil runs out and noone can afford even electric cars, trust me, the train will dominate again. If you're lucky, some of them MAY be built by Bombardier, if you're not, they'll all be Alsthom, Siemens and Hitachi.

>>222336

Are you retarded?

I can only assume you are if you claim America had a love affair with the automobile since 1776

In fact, pretty much ALL of the settling of america happened before the automobile, and while the automobile was around while the last few farmsteads of california were being settled, the people travelling west sure as hell couldn't afford them.

America's road network that you claim enabled America's love affair, wasn't even available until after WW2, prior to that the roads in America were a jumble of randomly constructed dirt roads with a handful of badly maintained paved roads. The federal government dithered about on plans for a national highway system between 1921 and 1956.

The war efforts in both WW1 and WW2 depended on the railroads, without UP transporting ammunition and materials to the factories on the west coast, and output from the factories in the mid-west, America would likely have lost the war in the pacific.

That Eisenhower and congress sold out the railroads to GM and Ford for a few petty bribes is sad.

>>222336
>America has had a love affair with the automobile since it's inception.
Nope, same time GM would dismantle a streetcar network they'd also run a marketing campaign advertising what you just said
>We began to build our way of life and commerce around this marvel. We built roads and the infrastructure for it.
Government collusion with the automotive industry forced people into cars with suburbanization & the Interstate Highway System

>>222351
eh
trams maybe but the rest from bombardier isnt that great realy ...

>>222351
DO NOT BUY SIEMENS
German quality and efficiency is a myth
Their trains here in Melbourne do not work - their brakes fail at the slightest hint of moisture or dirt on the tracks

>>222486

Eh, their exported trains are fine, never had any problem with any of the Class 350s or 360s I've ridden on here in the UK.

>>222486
Siemens are realy a mixed bag. If you order the standard with modified looks, often you end up with shit but it also depends wich wagon works they come from. I've heard good things from the austrian works and the modular metro running in vienna seems to have no issues, but the melbourne ones apparently are terrible.
Incidentialy Bombardier has a factory in Vienna churning out flexitys, perhaps it's realy a matter of in what factory these things are built as much as to whos specs.

Perhaps interesting tidbit : This summer the german ICE's all had issues with their aircon failing because they where not designed to run in such a heat, but similar siemens designed aircons didnt fail. The main problem there was the Deutsche Bahn underspecing the aircons and that summer its limmits where just exeeded.

>>222496
the main issue there is that deutsche bahn is funded rather poorly by the german government
DB has to cut expenses everywhere, so once temperatures exceeded the norm, the aircons where toast

additionally, DB can't handle the cold as well; last winter was pretty cold in germany, and some ICE trains couldn't run because parts of their mechanics just froze (i think some of the doors froze as well)
it is really a shame that a country like germany which still has a top tier rail network (*cough* cargo *cough*) has a rail operator which is funded and managed that poorly

>>222496
Melbournes COMENG trains have the same problems with their air conditioning, they were designed & built in the 1970s/80s

I think a viable, government ran rail system would really be the way to wean us off of oil. Imagine, if you will, a nation-spanning rail network. Imagine all the jobs such an undertaking would create. Too bad the big oil/big auto lobbyist would kill it :(

>>223390
well there already is railways across the country, largely freight
I think what you mean is High-Speed Rail for Inter-City and state and city commuter and metro and regional trains
High-Speed Rail could only work for operations in the major regions: North East, Mid-West, Texas, California. Imagine a two hour less train ride from Boston to New York City or Dallas to Houston.
Everywhere of course could do with Commuter Trains, Metro Trains, Regional Trains, and Streetcars/Trams/Lightrail since after all there are entire cities and regions without any public transportation or woefully lacking in sufficient.

>>221026
oh look, it's this fag again.

Melbourne IS densely packed by American standards.

>Hello, /n/ I'm a refugee from /new/, and wanted to get your opinion on mass transit. Beneficial to society as a whole?
Yes. I don't use it myself except for trips to very specific places where it would be problematic to drive to, but I can see it's worth to some people, and to have it for occasional travel.
>Do you view automotive transportation as superior? Let's hear your thoughts.
In most cases I do see automotive transportation as superior, but that said I've never lived as an adult in a city with functional public transportation [MARTA does not count as functional]. I like the idea of HSR, but doubt that it will be implemented anywhere in America [no, slow ass Acela doesn't count] in my lifetime, especially on a route I would ever use like Atlanta to New Orleans, Tampa or Miami.

>>223496
Texas Panhandle doesn't count as the American standard

>>223498
The Melbourne metropolitan area is twice as dense as the five inner counties of Atlanta and six times as dense as the metropolitan area as a whole. It's four times as dense as Kansas City, Missouri's main county [Jackson, MO], and 20 times denser than Clark County, Nevada [Las Vegas]