Yes.

but that's melbourne...

We need our electric transport systems reinstalled in US cities. Fucking oil tycoons.

you call that thing a tram?

Try this one instead.

should be around 45m long... if I remember correctly

>>158173
doesn't dresden have the widest gauge in germany? looking at the pic it seems so

>>158189

Dresden has 1450 mm, Leipzig has a wider gauge, 1458 mm.

However, as standard gauge is 1435 mmm it's not that much of a difference that could be seen in a photo, in fact Dresden had vague plans about building a Karlsruhe-like light rail system (using mainline tracks for trams), without regauging anything.

>>158136
we have subways that are better and don't deal with cars or horrible manhattan traffic

>>158136
No. You have the world's largest subway system. There is no reason for trams/streetcars/light rail.

>>158152
its a hypothetical question
>>158197
complements it, they wouldn't be following the same routes but bysecting and going in different ways. You get off the subway, get on the tram, completing your journey. This is how I find I use the trams in Melbourne.
And its cost means it can extend public transportation to areas where a subway wouldn't be feasible.

>>158200
New York Subway: 369km
London Underground: 400km
And they've got the Dockland Lightrail and London Tramlink, and a third proposed, complementing it as described here >>158206
Same is true throughout Europe, and Melbourne Australia

>>158136
Streetcars would replace the buses in New York City in major avenues and streets. But I do support them. This would leave a lot more buses in use in areas that actually need buses.

It's not overly difficult to provide largely exclusive track for trams on the streets. Especially in the US where streets are typically rather wide, even in the city center. Losing two lanes of car traffic or equivalent parking space is a minor loss compared to the exceptional service provided by the tram. Narrow side alleys can also be used, as trams fit in very tight quarters. The curves are the only challenge.

There is only so much essential rubber-wheel traffic. Mostly emergency vehicles and heavy goods transport. Slight reduction of car capacity will lower the amount of car traffic at least to meet the new capacity, with a truly well implemented tram network even more.

>>158600
I dont think just replacing bus routes, although maybe some that really crowded, it'd be new routes
>>158884
pivoting bogie trams have no problems making turns on Melbournes streets, that can get tight.
The articulated however screech and have been known to even derail.

>>158887
You would be constructing a modern new tram network using at least 30m long vehicles, preferably capable of multiple service of two units or more.

You put them into a curve less than 20m in diameter. I dare you.

Actually, it's quite possible but either makes the footprint in the curve pretty ludicrous or makes the vehicle a continuous articulation point.

>>158891
you dont connect trams or lightrail, look at the two pictures posted.
Look up more pictures, look up their interior.
As for the rest I don't think you quite understood

>>158895
The distinction between tram and light rail is quite arbitrary. Both types of vehicle can be very long and spacious. Both types of vehicle can also be small and slightly cramped. I've been to light rail using vehicles smaller than a inner city tram with tight corners.

The street running rail vehicle's, be it a tram or light rail, greatest strength is its capacity attainable by being way longer than a free running vehicle such as a bus could be. It makes no sense to make a new tram system that doesn't maximize its capacity. Adding capacity at planning stage is so cheap it's not even funny. After the fact it's much more difficult.

they're not carriages of a train, you dont connect them

>>158895

both pictures posted ITT are trams, the one in Dresden is taken outside of the city (probably at the Gorbitz terminus), but they still run through inner city pedestrian zones.

>>158901
they're lightrail!

>>158907

looks like a tram to me...

>>158900
False. Trams can be connected to each other as if they were carriages to each other. That is, in fact, the single greatest factor to the capacity trams offer.

Rush hour traffic can be handled by simply connecting more vehicles together instead of providing more services. This means coping with high demand hours costs *less* per passenger capacity compared to normal service costs.

With buses rush hour traffic costs significantly more per passenger capacity provided due to more drivers needed. Drivers are at a premium at top demand, as the working hours are hardly ideal. This means it makes no sense whatsoever to expand subsidized traffic at peak hours. That, in turn means that ridership can't really improve.

With trams, of course, the level of subsidization *reduces* as peak hour service is improved. This means even the subsidized tram service is best off improving its service.

>>158899
>The distinction between tram and light rail is quite arbitrary.

I have to agree on you with this. Then again, they call these types of trains "trams" in Europe while in North America we call them "light rail".

>>159013
Well there is a definition for "heavy rail" for which no transportation system in this thread qualifies.

>>158600
besides 2nd ave which a subway is slowly being built, there is no need for a new line, and no one uses crosstown busses above 42nd street based on the amount of sheer money loss that they all endure.

>>158895
NJ has light rail that can be easily linked, but it usually doesn't get crowded enough to need 4 cars of 200 people each.

>>158911
they dont in Melbourne, or anywhere in Europe. Maybe for some wacky halfarsed American systems they do that.
The biggest factor would be they're bigger and roomier than a bus and tracks are superior

Without a doubt. YES.

>>159022
Trams are good enough even if not fully utilized.

Trams are, however, nothing short of amazing when capitalized upon.

When I was in Lyon, I would literally ride the tramway just for tourism (usually from Gare de Lyon Perrache to Gare de Lyon Part Dieu).

When I was in Lyon, I would literally ride the tramway just for tourism (usually from Gare de Lyon Perrache to Gare de Lyon Part Dieu). A tramway system is of course more expensive than buses, but they have the advantage of both being able to carry more passengers (they're usually 3 cars long) and looking more flattering and respectable than a bus system.

So yeah, I do think tramways should be deployed.

i don't live in a big enough city to have anything other than the city bus lines, but when i went to Portland last summer i used these all the time and loved them.
i wish i could move there... ;_;

>streetcar or lightrail in New York City
>y/n?

No. Where do you find the room for it on those narrow streets? Just put the money into making the subway better.

>>159059
rail vehicles last 30-40 years, and theres plenty of heritage streetcars and trams still in fine working order
buses crap out after 10-15 years and need all sorts of stuff to keep working

>>159065
whats the population? In France they're rolling out lightrail in their cities with populations in low to mid hundreds of thousands, 2 or 3 or 4 or 5+ lines ordinarily. Some of them are in their own dedicated right-of-ways or grade-separated in the median strip, but others are on the road.

I think it used to be that every American town/city with a population of ~30,000 had at least one streetcar line.
I deffinitely remember in Dashiell Hammetts Red Harvest the mining town Personville had a streetcar and the place was said to have a population of around 20,000.
>>159068
plenty of narrow streets in Europe and Melbourne have them.

yay melbourne tram, biggest network in the wrld

>>159073
you think busses only last 15 years? You have no idea of the power of rebuilds bro. Busses here are pushing 30+ years old, trains were pushing 60/70 before replacement. We make things last in the north east.

>>159074
Manhattan is horribly dense AND narrow, it is a magical case (why subways/elevated rail) even existed, the streetcars were too crowded when surface transportation started being a big deal.

I feel like it would work better in the outer boroughs than in manhattan. Less traffic and wider streets, lots of areas w/o good subway access.

and plus, there's a lot of the old streetcar tracks intact below a layer of asphalt, at least in Brooklyn.

>>159085
as I said, plenty in narrow streets elsewhere

>>159090
as a stop gap you might use them temporarily - IF they haven't rusted.
But modern track using continuous weld and concrete in track and so on would be superior

>>159085
No, you see, the biggest obstacle to implementing streetcars or larger trams is taking the space they need from other (non-essential) vehicle traffic. There's only so much essential traffic: deliveries and emergencies. Which can really be arranged for either specially (as is case for emergency: stop all other traffic as much as necessary) or outside high traffic (deliveries can easily take place early in the morning, at noon or later in the evening).

They will be crowded because it's the best damn way to travel short distance in a dense city. It's not a reason to not build them. They will bring more seats than a subway extension for the money spent. They will make the streets more habitable and -- more crowded.

The tram will, of course, complement the other transport available. It's only the best on short distances, between a few blocks at most. For longer distance the subway is easily superior with fewer stops and more speed.

>>158135
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>>159085
Streetcars are just a replacement for buses with higher capacity and lower cost/passenger mile.

Seattle lol

>>159170
HA HA HA HAH HA

Subways don't have to deal with cars, or pedestrian scan easily go 60MPH, can casually fit 500+ people on a slow day, don't need to be plowed (all surface transit needs to be plowed, half the reason why we don't have els is because of a blizzard, sure they are more expensive, but better that expense now on something that is proven and uses trains that we already have than spending money on new trams that with manhattan's comical density would be slow or hit bad drivers too much.

I've been reading the SecondAvenueSagas, a blog by New Yorker Benjamin Kabak and it seems in the articles their is little support for a light rail line in New York City especially for one in Manhattan. I hope the Second Avenue Subway gets to at least Phase 2 of the project. Still New York City needs to envision a map for 2030 or 2040 for the future subway system especially with the rezoning in Greenpoint and Williamsburg for high density buildings which will probably called for an additional subway line there or additional service with express lines. If efforts for a subway in that area fail, testing light rail in the two neighborhoods could be a start.

What we need are a bunch of double-decker buses and rickshaws.

>>158133
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