So there's been a marginal improvement?

Both are an improvement, but at least twilight doesn't interrupt the story for tedious essays on whaling.

Good point. We SHOULD be more thankful for Twilight; at least it's not Moby Dick.

Moby Dick as extremely unpopular when it came out and was torn apart by the critics. Bad comparison.

There has always been shit. But now that shit sparkles and makes millions.

You also have the works of Samuel Clemens, Nathaniel Hawthorne, Isaac Asimov, John Steinbeck, J. D. Salinger, Ray Bradbury, Stephen King, and Ernest Hemingway. What these men author on a sheet of toilet paper after a bowel movement surpasses Twilight by a parsec.

>>958159

I think that makes it a perfect comparison; both are terrible books which receive undue praise from idiots.

The publishing industry decided to make a bunch of money out of the uneducated.

What happened? Oh wait..

>>958174

FUCK OFF, you're part of the problem. Isaac Asimov, Ray Bradbury and Stephen King are genre crappies. It's because shits like you were indulged in their delusions of deserving life that we now have Twilight.

>>958174
Your suppose to just name drop the good authors. Fuck man, King and Asimov? I would be fucking depressed if they were amongst the elite of American authors.

Ever heard of a little book called Fahrenheit 451? What of Foundation? What of... OK you got a point with Stephen King.

>>958186

Well he is of Irish ancestry what can I say

>>958193
You're*

>>958197

Yes I have, it's a piece of shit. So is Foundation.

>>958201

Actually, Foundation is really three/four pieces of shit in a big sneaker left in someone's garage.

>>958197

Fahrenheit 451 was Bradbury. Bradbury has almost nothing in common with Asimov stylistically.

>>958198
And you have African ancestry, you fucking nigger shit.

>>958201

Enlighten me, how so?

>>958209

Bradbury's writing is like watching a kid counting the steps from the store to home, and Asimov is just... blllllllllllllllllllllllleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh. Also, Marty Sue.

>>958189
>>958193
I'm glad someone covered this already so I didn't have to

Thomas PYnchon

OK, so maybe I didn't list the most shining examples. But you must admit that some of the men I described are far better authors than that Mormon woman.

Fellows, let's not start bitching about King etc.

OP's fatal flaw is calling Twilight 'literature', when it is just pop shite that was marketed to horny tweens by a writer who can barely write above the level of zealous fan fiction. Pulpy worthless shit has always been around and been massively popular but you don't know about it now because people forget about it, whereas the great novels will last forever. Who the fuck will care about Twilight in 10 years?

actually, when Moby Dick was first published, everyone HATED it. One of my friends had a copy of Moby Dick and it had a bunch of reviews back when the first edition came out. There were some absolutely scathing reviews calling Herman Melville a hack, and the book really only became popular once he died.

>>958228

The others are. Asimov, Bradbury and King, nah.

>>958228
Well clappity clappity mother fucker, what an achievement!

>>958247
Shut-up Twilight fanboy.

>Implying Moby Dick was or is good.

>>958235

This is correct.


>>958241

Yeah, but... you know, it's never that simple, and I worry about the USE of stories like this to defend people like Meyer again 'haterz'.

Gravity's Rainbow is seriously up there wuith Moby-Dick as one of the greatest novels ever. It seriously is

I'm the VP of a student lit society at my uni, and after the holidays some new members came to a meeting, we asked them to introduce themselves and tell us what they had read during the break. This fat weaboo stood up and told us he read all of the Twilight books. I camly said "Get out." Never saw him again. My face.

>>958262
And then everyone stood up and clapped.

>>958262

Then everyone lied about what they read.

>>958189

You best be trollan

though, stephen king is poo

>>958262

This is excellent.

Edgar Allen Poe, Nathaniel Hawthorne, Herman Melville, Walt Whitman, T. S. Eliot, Robert Frost, Mark Twain, Henry James, William Sydney Porter, Stephen Crane, Ernest Hemingway, William Faulkner, John Steinbeck, Henry Miller, William S. Burroughs, John Updike, Thomas Pynchon, Vonnegut(uhg), Cormac McCarthy, Philip Roth, Don DeLillo...

>>958283

Haha yeah got a few obscure authors after that

op must be a hipster

Back then Charles Dickens was extremely popular. He was the Stephanie Meyer of the 19th century.

>>958319

Another example of the bullshit commonly pulled by people who like to roll around in shit. No, he wasn't.

>>958319

Right...you did just say that..

You now realize that amazing pieces of literature are being written and published at this very moment, but will remain obscure for many years to come.

>>958290

No, O. Henry is not one of the great American writers.
Neither is Cormac McCarthy. I'd say Vonnegut falls out of the top tier, too.

>>958337
Well if YOU said it, then it's definitely true. I forgot that you were the supreme master of quality control for American literature. Can't believe we didn't consult you earlier.

>>958337

>Vonnegut falls out of the top tier

Nigga you trollin'

>>958337
Look, another faggot who has only read The Road. Read Suttree and Blood Meridian and realize how big an ass you are.

>>958337
Hey dude.. I think you missed Burroughs. He's also on the list

>>958290
More people who don't belong: Henry Miller, John Updike

God Tier: my tastes
Faggot Tier: your tastes

>>958340

Well, better late that never. Obviously it's my opinion, you idiot, but I'm not going to surround it with pussy qualifiers.

>>958343
Nah, Vonnegut isn't as good as those other fellas.

>>958345

Nah, I've read 'em, he's not all that. Read more books, man, some people are REALLY good.

>>958359
Guess what faggot, your opinion doesn't overturn their status in American lit.

>>958390
No you haven't. Fuck off idiot. Also, I have read plenty of books to make the judgment. The critics are on my side too.

>>958394

I love it when idiots like this have to call up the canon because the fact that other people have the confidence of their own opinions intimidates and angers them.

As if pop fiction didn't exist in the 19th cent. OP is just showing off his lack of education.

>>958399
Joyce sucks and isn't a prominent author in Irish lit. It is now true because my opinion. See, you're dumb.

>>958394
Hey. Henry Miller ain't even on Harold Bloom's big list and I know exactly why. So shut the hell up.

>>958418

Oh lawd I thought you were serious there.

*deactivates lazor*

>>958398

Yeah I have, he's not all that. Really. Read more.

>>958418

No, I'm not.

>>958468
Excuse me. Harold Bloom has read like 4853740598 books at least 3 times each and Cormac McCarthy is one of his favorite American novelists. So stop being some kind of faggot bitch and man up and like you some McCarthy

>>958398

Such a desperate child.

>>958475
>>958453

>implying Harold Bloom is an authority on anything other than Shakespeare

>>958475

That doesn't particularly concern me, I know Bloom isn't after what I'm after in a novel - he thinks Philip Roth's good too, and I'm afraid he isn't.

>>958475

For a /lit/ board there sure is a lot of dogma in here.

>>958483

Also, let's not forget, Bloom did a foreword for a bunch of pieces about Tolkien which he probably hadn't even read, just so he could slide his name under the noses of a broader readership. So, you know, even great men have their moments of faggotry.

>>958476
Troll elsewhere.

>>958488
Look.. you have to understand that that's just a Jew thing. They're both Jews so it's like a Jewish brotherhood thing or whatever. You know.. like how all the black people have meetings together. It's a lot like that

>>958493

Nah, we're talking about serious business here - literature.

>>958488
100,000 literature professors disagree with your 16 year old idiot opinion. Congrats.

>>958500

Somehow I suspect you might be trrrrrrolleeeeng, just a beeet?

>>958500
Actually, Philip Roth is very good. He's just not for people under 23.

>>958502

"So stop being some kind of faggot bitch and man up and like you some McCarthy"

.....riiiight. You all put William Hazlitt to shame with your elevated prose and ideas. xD

>>958506

Oh wow, you really are desperate to belong! I know most people don't exercise their own taste and discernment, but you're finding yourself driven to try to INTIMIDATE me with the number of people who've downloaded Bloom's taste into their brains. It's really astonishing.

>>958506
This isn't a terribly compelling argument.

I mention this because I find Roth to be the worst of the great American narcissists. I don't really want to argue about it, and yeah he's got too much clout for you to not make a valid argument about his relevancy. Example: The Decameron is relevant; still don't have to like it.

I'm just glad Vidal will live on like some horrible gay mummy long after that Jew kicks it.

>>958516
>prose
>imageboard

>>958521
>great American narcissists
YOUR OPINION IS INVALIDATED, WOMAN

>>958516

I do love the '[verb] you' archaic imperative though, coming after that invective.

>>958519
>Thinks we are arguing personal tastes

>>958528
Yeah I also like dumb cliched bullshit, that's why I wrote it

>>958536
- Cormac McCarthy

>>958540

HAHAHAHA! BOMBTRACK!

>>958540
Powertrolling.

>>958529

OK - Objectively, Cormac McCarthy is boring shit.

>>958536
- James Joyce

>>958540

>>958555

Bloom doesn't think so because, like many physically cowardly indoorsy schlmiels, he imagines blue-collar flyover country folk have a soul. They don't. They're all the same, they're components for use, and the desert is still ugly no matter what words you use.

>>958555
>Objectively
>Gives personal opinion

Yup, Trolling. Good day sir.

>>958563

You idiot, you need humor spelled out for you? No wonder you defer to conservative institutional values.

>>958562
I don't give a fuck about Bloom. Also, you are clearly set your trolling to maximum now.

"Country folk can't write and don't have a soul HERP DERP. "

No one has a soul and William Faulkner is the best American writer.

>>958572
>conservative institutional values
Point to them.

>>958572
Because no one would say something unintelligent on a message board without it being a joke. Man you are an idiot.

>>958572
Good cover, it was just a joke guys!!

>>958572
Trolling is always a joke to the troll.

>>958575

No, I'm not trolling, I'm explaining why McCarthy isn't much good. It's the kind of writing which is overrated because the people it's about - and by, to an extent - are overrated. Calling them components is just a corrective to centuries of American critics talking them up because of a national surplus of half-educated country folk. It wouldn't be good enough in any other country in the world, and it isn't good enough here.

>>958572
Who said it wasn't done in humor? It wouldn't be trolling if it wasn't.

>>958578

Your Bloom-touting. Your invocation of those thousands of academics.

>>958584

No, it was humor. I do think that what I said is objectively true, but it's comical to say something is objectively true before wording it so violently.

McCarthy thinks Proust is no good.

/thread

>>958593
So you are a pompous ass who hates people from rural areas? This is your case against McCarthy? Think of something better dude. Just say, I think he's boring as shit or something.

>>958605
Lol, he's probably homophobic

>>958618

I come from a rural area. For centuries, metropolitan shut-ins have waxed rhapsodic over any novel where the main character can work in wood or loses his grip on grammar. I'm tired of it. Most of those people are all the same - they talk the same, they think the same, they act the same. That's why I left. McCarthy is the same kind of bullshitter for the West that Bruce Springsteen is for factory towns.

>>958634

Almost certainly, but let's keep our hats on it. After all, he's one of Harold Bloom's top authors.

>>958599
>Your Bloom-touting. Your invocation of those thousands of academics.

Because it wasn't a battle of my personal opinion versus yours. See, that is where you made the mistake. When someone lists classics or prominent authors of a country or a time period, what he bases their status isn't his or someone else's single opinion. Get it? I could say, I hate Ernest Hemingway. See, he would still be a classic author, despite my opinion? Why? Surely you know why right?

>>958648
So you admit it. Good to see you own up to your bullshit.

>>958658
If you're the same anon, you attempted to INTIMIDATE me with a number. That's not how you do it. The problem is, you're assuming you're here to teach, and that if I argue with this conservative canonical evaluation, I must be a beginner stepping out of line. These assumptions are unfounded, and mistaken.


>>958666
You're full of shit.

I fixed it

Did Cormac McCarthy write Brokeback Mountain?

>>958717
lol

>>958717
Yes. He is secretly gay

>>958724

Wow, talk about the Brown Dirt Cowboy, lol

>>958698
>If you're the same anon, you attempted to INTIMIDATE me with a number. That's not how you do it. The problem is, you're assuming you're here to teach, and that if I argue with this conservative canonical evaluation, I must be a beginner stepping out of line. These assumptions are unfounded, and mistaken.

Intimidate? I just pulled some number out of my ass, it was to point out that your single opinion does not determine what is a classic or what is canonical. I'm tired of shits thinking what should be considered a classic is based on their single opinion.

Just throwing this out there: anyone who thinks Stephen King is a shitty writer is a literature snob or a troll.

>>958698
>You're full of shit.

Because I don't automatically hate everyone from the country?

>>958730Just throwing this out there: anyone who thinks Stephen King is a shitty writer has taste


fixed


I grew up reading King and now I realize the man is fucking trash. Deal with it nerd.

>>958730
He is a shitty writer and so is Vonnegut and Joseph Conrad. Fuck, I hate those socialist faggots.

>>958730
He's amusing, but not a great writer.

>>958737
>>958738

How is he a shitty writer/trash? What makes him so?

But good call about Vonnegut, I can't enjoy his books.

>>958730
He's not good but it's not like there isn't worse

>>958729
You idiot! I'd already said I was obviously expressing my opinion, just not surrounding it with a bunch of qualifiers. It's OBVIOUS my opinion is my opinion. How stupid and insecure do you have to be to have a problem with people confidently stating their opinions?


>>958730
You know, most of them think that, they're just waiting for the people who care enough to have an argument about it to give up.

>>958738

>He is a shitty writer and so is Vonnegut and Joseph Conrad. Fuck, I hate those socialist faggots.

GTFO off /lit/ Glenn Beck

>>958745
You agree with Vonnegut being trash but question King?

Jesus H. Christ on a fucking cracker.

Anyways, rather then hear us blather on why we dislike King, read him yourself. You'll quickly see what trash the man is.

>>958752

I have read several of King's books, I enjoyed them. I don't understand why he's considered trash on here.

>>958733

I don't hate everyone from the country, I hate the ludicrous valorization of a certain kind of country person by a certain kind of cynical writer.

>>958748
>You idiot! I'd already said I was obviously expressing my opinion, just not surrounding it with a bunch of qualifiers. It's OBVIOUS my opinion is my opinion. How stupid and insecure do you have to be to have a problem with people confidently stating their opinions?

I listed a quick list of American literature canon. Then you, or some other douche, I can't tell one from another, said to remove x and x and x because his opinion.

Joseph Conrad wasn't a socialist. Is this some new meaning of the word 'socialist' that I'm unfamiliar with?

>>958758
He's pulpy genre trash. Unlike many others, he's taken the easy way writing the same damn horror shit over and over. When he does attempt to step out, it more often than not ends up being science fiction. There is absolutely no growth to the man. You'd see no difference from his earlier stuff to his later stuff. He is the epitome of the hack writer.

>>958767

Yes, I did, and I stand by that as an accurate expression of my opinion.

>>958290
did you get all of those authors straight from oprahs book club or something

>>958758
because a number of /lit/ posters are engaged in serious efforts either to assert their own superiority on the grounds of perceived deficiencies in the reading material of others, or to troll the fuck out of /lit/

Hey Amerifags

PROTIP: Socialism does not equal Communism

>>958759
He doesn't just write about one kind of person, his writing take place from the 1840's - the future. That doesn't matter though. Why shouldn't he write about what he knows? You just don't like people from the country it seems or the west.

>>958788
Or perhaps because we're simply disputing the issue this man has raised in King being a damned hack. Which he is. Otherwise, no I do not see King discussed here often. Quit being melodramatic. Pussy.

>>958784
can't wait till I see Henry Miller on Oprah's book club

>>958782
But you just said. Oh fuck it.

>>958771
Nah, I was just trolling.

>>958795
King is posted about here all the time. During the day.

>>958795
it's more the way /lit/ has of following every mention of a genre author with "YOU FUCKING MANCHILD READ A REAL BOOKS"

which is really really fucking dumb and ngl gets on my nerves

>>958759
Calm down, we get it. You don't think people from the country aren't worth writing about because they are inferior garbage. See I never understood Steinbeck writing about migrant workers, who wants to write about that kind of garbage?

>>958793
No, his racket is manifest, and I have explained my objection to it.

>>958807
But it wasn't your opinion, was it?

>>958798
Naked Lunch too man.

>>958820

Why are you LYING about what I said when what I said is there, on the screen, for anyone to read? Are you trying to troll me? I've explained my position.

>>958812

or... uhh i dont know what sociaism is so ill just write it anyway but then i fucked up and got caught out but no worries ill just claim i was trolling lol u guy hahah hurr durr

>>958819

THEN READ A REAL BOOK, SHITPEG!

>>958777

Of course he sticks to writing horror, it's what he's good at and what sells. He writes to make a living, he's said it himself. You strike me as one of those people who would listen to obscure bands solely because they are obscure.

Say what you will, I believe The Stand is one of the masterpieces of the 20th century.

>>958827
To be fair I also hate Socialist horror writers like King and Conrad

>>958827
You caught me.

>>958819
>I DON'T WANNA QUIT READING TRASH
>QUIT TELLING ME TO STOP READING TRASH
>WAAAAAAAAAAH
man and here i thought we were doing chumps like you a service

>>958836
And Aldous Huxley

>>958835
King hasn't written a decent horror novel in years. If I remember correctly, he wrote under a pen name to see if his horror would still pass by the critics and in sales.

It fucking didn't.

>I believe The Stand is one of the masterpieces of the 20th century.


You miserable fucking loser.

>>958826
Dude, we don't have to play these games. I'm with you bro.

>>958838
I know... it's too bad...

>>958841

Huxley, ah yes, Huxley - who was BETTER than Orwell, if any of the faggots from that thread are still floating around.

>>958831
i do. all the fucking time. i also read science fiction and fantasy (some of which is really fucking good!!!!) so shut it

>>958838
you're not doing me a service, you presumptuous ass, you're being an arrogant idiot. keep in mind - reading and discussing 'trash' does not stop one from reading and discussing 'literature'.

>>958849

Really? Well good for you.

>>958858

YES IT FUCKING DOES, WHORESON SMELLS!

>>958848

That is true, he tried a penname to see if he could reproduce his own success or if he simply got lucky.

>You miserable fucking loser.
>HURR DURR YOUR OPINION IS DIFFERENT FROM MINE AND THAT MAKES YOU A DUMBASS

Sorry man, I didn't realize this was /mu/.

I have never read any of Kings books, but I appreciate that he is a good storyteller having penned a lot of classic movies like Carrie, The Shining, Green Mile, The Shawshank Redemption, Stand By Me, Misery etc.. (and also IT... ) so i wouldn't be too quick to slate him completely.

>>958863
oic
>>958866
its not but some people are really committed to making it /mu/

>>958870

HOLY FUCKING SHIT YOU WENT FULL RETARD

>>958876

Stephen King is interesting, because his face is so weird you think he can't be fully caucasian. But he is. True story.

>>958889

lol'ed 8/10

>>958860
OH YOU FELL FOR THE TRAP! You do hate people from the country! I knew it. I knew it. I got you. You all but said it earlier, well you did say it. Then went back and tried to hide it. But, I caught you.

>>958858
GRRM isn't literature either fool


>>958866
>>958874
Too fucking bad. Stephen King making into any 100 lists for anything sets off my bad taste alarm. Kids these days. Read some more books please, I beg of you.

>>958913

I read plenty, thanks.

>>958922
Not enough if The Stand is one of the "masterpieces" of the fucking 20th century you bloody mongoloid

>>958913
Funny, my English professor loved King.

>>958931

It's just my opinion, and you're just an arrogant asshole.

>>958937
HE PAYS ATTENTION TO HIS ENGLISH PROFESSOR?!?

LAUGHGIRLS.JPEG

hahahaha

but get serious now

>>958937
My English professor could beat up your English professor

>>958907

No, I didn't say that at all, and everyone can SEE it. You've proved nothing except that you don't have a real interest in literature. Enjoy your trolling.

>>958931
there are people who are idiots who read genre fiction

that does not mean that everyone who reads genre fiction is an idiot. and telling everyone who even mentions genre fiction to "READ REAL BOOKS YOU MANCHILD!" is just fucking stupid, plain and fucking simple. it's really fucking dumb.

>>958938
An arrogant asshole, but a right arrogant asshole.

Maybe you should join Oprah's Book Club!

>>958943

YOUR OPINION DOESN'T COUNT FOR SHIT BECAUSE YOU CAN'T TELL SHIT FROM CLAY, YOU FUCK, YOU MOTHERFUCK, YOU DUMB MOTHERFUCKER YOU!

>>958940
>HE PAYS ATTENTION TO HIS ENGLISH PROFESSOR?!?

Seemed like a good idea for passing the class. Worked too.

>>958947

>opinion
>right

>>958943everyone who reads genre fiction is an idiot

I agree completely.

>everyone who even mentions genre fiction is just fucking stupid, plain and fucking simple.

Agreed absolutely! Finally, a quality post in this abysmal thread!

>>958947
i read good fucking books, you asshole. i read things that are not science fiction and fantasy. i'm better fucking read than most of the 1984 AND BRAVE NEW WORLD high school assholes on this board. again: you can read fantasy or science fiction and still read good books

>>958951
ohh no no no

>>958952
Dude, I do not give two shits what some fucking freshman english professor thinks about books. If she/he likes King than you must have had a really crappy college.

>>958942
LOL. Oh man, that was fun. I obviously have no interest in literature either, I don't know why I spend all nearly all my free time reading.

>>958963you can read fantasy or science fiction and still read good books

nope

discworld or GRRM does not qualify as quality literature

>>958966
Jesus dude, it was sophomore lit anyway. I just mentioned it, I don't even like King.

>>958971
i hate you so, so much

it's stupid of me to get into this argument, but i can't help it

i fucking hate you

>>958977
I fucking hate entry-level schmucks who think they read anything worth a damn.

Get bent man. Now go scuttle away like some sort of autistic while I go masturbate on my Joyce bust.

ITT: People who don't know that the 5,000 original copies of Moby Dick didn't even sell during Melville's lifetime.

>my face

>>958970

No, it wasn't fun. You're just a bad human being - a failed one.

>>958977

MURDER KIDS, FUCK WOOOOOLE
FUCKY WUCKY WUCKY WUCK BASTA POL

THE FUCKING FUCKER FUCKS YOUR FUCK
YAHWAH, ABEDIGO, NIGGER YAKALLAN, YA KALAAN!

>>958990
You just hating on me because I live in a rural area.

>>959002

This is the kind of person who rates Cormac McCarthy. A 4chan troll.

>>959011
Man, you're a such a pompous douche dude. LOL, serious, you got problems.

Oh, and here's some good American lit.

>>959020

No, I have solutions. 1. Stop reading McCarthy. Good luck getting a personality, kid.

>>958987
shut the fuck up and go back to /mu/. again, hate you.
>>959000
now you, i like

>>959021

Yeaaaah!

<<------ The only genre noveI I have ever read, because it's the only one worth reading.

>>959053

NOOOOOOOOO IT'S FUCKIN DUNE AGAIN, FOR SPASTICS!

>>959029
>kid

And then he starts with the condescending. Man, you get so mad when I keep on about you hating people from the country. You do though. You made that pretty goddamn clear dude. You're only mad because I'm right.

>>959053
Careful bro. Supporters of the Monopoly/Pringles Man might bust in here and kick your ass if you talk that way.

>>959032
>I HAVE NO ARGUMENT
>GO AWAY BAD MAN

Fucking children.

>>959053
Sucks ass.

There has always been bad literature in every country that becomes famous for no reason. Shit, remember Animorphs? That doesn't mean literature as a whole in that country is in a bad state, it just proves that teens and tweens have shitty taste.

>>959070

I'm not mad, I'm just amazed you've got only one gag.

>>959073
literally kill yourself. here's an argument for you. 1) Put my dick in your mouth. 2) Try and fit my whole nuts and dick in your mouth. 3) QED.

>>959092

This is what reading genre fiction does to your mind, it turns you into someone who tells guys to eat his nuts on the internet.

>>959102
I think that was a catchphrase actually..

>>959086
It's not a gag. You clearly have some superiority complex.

>>959102
there's no reason for me to argue with you because you'll just dismiss all my arguments with LOL YOU DON'T READ REAL BOOKS, GEORGE RR FARTIN IS NOT REAL LITERATURE, MY SUPERIOR MENTAL ATTACKS

so, fuck it. suck a dick, motherfucker.

>>959120

Look, I explained my position clearly. I am not a snob. McCarthy is, if anyone is.

>>959126
>I HAVE NO ARGUMENT
>I CAN'T THINK OF ANYTHING
>HNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG F-FUCK YOU


haha oh man, child you're hilarious

>>959126
So you like George RR Martin?

>>959126

You ARE Napoleon Dynamite.

>>959136

Dude, that IS George R. R. Martin.

>>959135
okay fine, i'll let you do your thing one more time

1) it is possible for one person to read both science fiction and fantasy and 'real' literature. and in fact many people on this board do. i certainly do. and no i'm not referring to GRRM or discworld.

2) some speculative fiction is not, in fact, complete trash. some of it is skillfully written, if not necessarily deep.

3) given such it is stupid to dismiss out of hand anyone who reads genre fiction

>>959136
excuse me i clearly said George RR Fartin

>>959140
I don't know, maybe it's someone who likes the two or so fantasy books that are actually good (not George RR Martin)

>>959148

0/10.

>>959149

Insulin is a hell of a drug.

>>959149
HAHAHAHAHA FANTASY BOOKS ACTUALLY GOOD GO SUCK ON A PACIFIER YOU LITERAL MANCHILD. YOU THINK A FANTASY BOOK IS GOOD YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY 2 IN REAL LIFE AND WEAR A DIAPER AND WANT TO FUCK YOUR MOTHER

>>959131
Whatever dude, you are a snob though, and I do think you hate people from the country. Just basing that on your comments and the tone you have taken up.

>>959161
I submit 100 Years of Solitude to the jury.

>>959181
Not Fantasy

>>959161
HE'S NOT CAPSGUY BY THE WAY.

>>959181
SHUT UP MANCHILD THAT BOOK IS IN FUCKING SPANISH OR SOMETHING THE LANGUAGE OF FUCKING BABIES. DONT MAKE ME LAUGH I DO FUCKING IRON PUMP RIPS AND AM RIPPED, ALSO MENTALLY SMART AND MATURE AND HAVE SEX, NOT LIKE YOU LITTLE MANCHILDREN. I READ FUCKING GOOD BOOKS LIKE FUCKING CATCH 22 AND SHIT AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>959187
AND NEITHER IS HE.

>>959186
>>959190
Yeah, don't worry, I didn't think so

>>959181
magical-realism is not fantasy plebeian

You know what I hate? Opinions. Fuck this thread. You guys make /b/ look civilized.

>>959212
Best post so far in this thread.

I'ma gonna post that fantasy list what includes Lord Dunsany and Mervyn Peake alongside contemporary hacks yessir

>>959212
>YOU DISAGREE WITH MY OPINIONS
>I HATE U

>>959148
You know what? You're obviously too angry and jilted to argue properly. Not even going to bother with your dumb ass anymore child. Don't post because I shall not deign to answer you.

Children these days, goddamn.

>>959170

No, you're basing that on your own stupidity. My tone has been the tone of someone patiently swatting away the nonsense of a single-issue troll. You've not made any attempt to discuss the books, it's just been this push-me-pull you crap. If you want to imagine you're defending a 'real guy' from a snob, fine - the reality is exactly the opposite. I'm a real person, from the country, tired of professional rustics like McCarthy and their transparent use of the delusions of metropolitan critics for their own careerist ends. If you want to go on thinking that being able to gut a fish or change a fuse is somehow holy, knock yourself out.

I'm done.

>>959225
so do you actually post on sa or are you just biting the smugdog image (which is played out btw)

>>959207

This is true.

>>959225
You can't argue worth a shit.

>>959258
>>959244
what part of not answering your posts do you fgts not get

I read this thread and I regret it.

>>959244
lol goons xD... GOONS! hahaha

>>959225
Except if you are you you just answered therefore you are the academic equivalent of "fuckwit"

>>959244
Yes. And I know who you are. And I'm going to tell those fags that you post here, on fucking 4chan. Your posting career is over, nigger.

I was going to refute you and then I realized that I had listed two British authors (Ian McEwan, David Mitchell) and a Canadian (Margret Atwood). Really what the fuck happened to American authors.

But overall literature has vastly improved since the days of Herman Melville.

>>959237
>tired of professional rustics like McCarthy and their transparent use of the delusions of metropolitan critics for their own careerist ends

Man, who's full of shit? You obviously don't know anything about Cormac McCarthy's career or personal life.

>>959289
You were going to use Margret Atwood? Man..

>>959279Except if you are you you just answered therefore you

what the fuck are you trying to say

>are the academic equivalent of "fuckwit"

no sir, that horrid mess of a sentence points to you as being the only fuckwit in this thread

fuckwit

Blind Assassin? Defiantly a lot better than Moby-Dick.

>>959309
This is the state of /lit/...

>>959303
Horrid mess of a sentence or creative writing so remarkable you are dumbfounded by my ingenuity and can't think of a proper response?

Posting more good American lit.

.....(argumentative faggots)

>>959303
Also I must congratulate you on color coating my text, it must be easier for you to understand. Lord knows quotation marks would only make things more difficult for you.

>>959330
The greatest writer in American literature in my opinion, and the greatest stream of consciousness writer.

>>959297

> implying McCarthy isn't a phoney

>>959345

Agreed. Roth does the stream well also.

Here's another good one.

The only book from the last 15 years that I've read that is truly worthy of Guile's theme.

>>959353

Roth is shit.

>>959365

A very flawed book, redeemed perhaps only by his suicide, his one great artistic act.

>>958855

Huxley couldn't write for shit, but he had better concepts than Orwell

>>959368
I thought he would be too. I read Everyman though. Good stuff, you should check it out.

>>959375
6/10, feeling the rage.

>>959375
5/10 because I loled

What I have learned from this thread: Every author sucks.

>>959288
noooooooo all my internet cred

>>959390
lost... in time... like tears... in rain

>>959384

I read it, he's shit.

>>959381

Huxley's the better writer too.

>>959385

It's true, though.

>>959386

So you should, it's a great joke on the fad of postmodernism - finally, David Foster Wallace GOT high seriousness.

>>959319
You act like its a good thing to hate everything modern just because it isn't old enough to be considered a "classic" and thus give you reason too feel a false sense of intellectual superiority. A feeling that is based upon a preconceived notion of being cultured that removes any kind of personal enrichment for ones stake, and instead replaces it with the desire to appear more intellectual than others in your social circle.

Judge on quality. One book contains enthralling descriptions of familial relations in a bourgeoisie Canadian household, an innovative narrative style, and subtle tensions. The other contains tedious descriptions of whaling.

>>959403

>>959410

No, it's true.

The person saying Atwood is better than Melville truly begs for the yakklill ah fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck murderson yakulin, YA KULIN.

>>959419
what the fuck does that mean?

>>959408

WHY ARE YOU BEGGING LIKE THAAAAAT? WHY WHY WHY WHY

WHY

ARE YOU BEGGING LIKE THAT?!

>>959427

RRRRRRRRRROBUR ROBAT, ROBUR ROBAR, ADOLF MALELT, BRUMOW ROBAR.

>>959431
you mad?

>>959437
>>959437

MWIWEJMOIEFOIOJWSIJJWI0JIWEF

ya killin the rape is monday, murder murder rapeo FUCKS.

The women beg for rape, scratch the men's faces with their car keeeeeys.

This is lay YAKILLIN, made to lay the insolent Paki scoundrel.

Atwood is not the superior of Melville. PRICK

Come on?!!!!!!!!! WORD OF THE LOIN LORD!

Yeah, I got pretty angry there. The point is, Atwood is not the superior of Melville, or even the equal, by any means.

>>959447
Does this make sense to anyone? Is it relevant?

>>959451
Have you read both?

YOU'RE ALL A BUNCH OF WHINY MANCHILDREN ARGUING WITH EACH OTHER BECAUSE YOU HAVE DIFFERENT TASTES.

FUCK ALL OF YOU.

GOD.

>>959462

YES, YOU FUCKING IDIOT. YOU CAN'T STEP TO EVERYONE WITH THAT SHIT, ALRIGHT? SUMMER OR NO SUMMER, THERE ARE SOME REAL READERS HERE WHO WILL CALL YOU ON YOUR BULLSHIT.

>>959470
we're actually arguing with each other mostly because some people are really fucking committed to turning this shit into /mu/ and thus are trolling the FUCK out of /lit/

>>959462

It means exactly what it says.

>>959476

NO NO NO NO, I'm here to discuss LITERATURE, and I refuse to stand idly by while CRUD is extolled.

I am disappointed, /lit/ - I come in here looking for discussion of literature and instead I get a bunch of trolling and name calling.

the L in twilight looks like a dildo

>>959489

YOU WIN AN INTERNET.

>>959488

I want to discuss literature too. We need a crusade against shit-likers.

>>959475
he mad.

I read both and I disagree, thus as a

> REAL READER

I'm here to call you out on your bullshit because thats what your opinion is too me too good sir. But in reality there is no reason to get so angry over an internet argument over taste, especially one were you can't point out any reason why Melville is better than Atwood.

So yeah, in conclusion - Twilight's an example of something that didn't happen in Melville's time, so it's not a fair comparison, and the works of Vonnegut and McCarthy aren't good enough to rank with our very best.

Goodnight everyone.

>>959515

The reason why is simple - you never asked for one before.

Melville invented something, taking a tremendous risk. He was what Burroughs called a 'verbal inventor', that is, taking the novel as a category of discourse, ie. speech, he said things that hadn't been said before with a formal (not neccesarily linguistic) language he invented for the purpose. The role of the American wrtiter of high rank is above all to invent new forms for his or her feelings. American novelists at their best make it new. The Canadian writer Margaret Atwood is just a master of existing forms handed down to her. Something can be well-done of its type and still be uninspiring, and for me Atwood's characters are so anemic and pro forma, shaped exclusively for functionality, that I throw the book aside in disgust.

>>959551
Woooo! *Applause*

CONTINUED

Because I have no interest in examples of a skill mastered - because I require of a great writer that the book is MADE like a sculpture, with no feature that does not seem as if it couldn't have been otherwise, Atwood fills me with a sense of claustrophobia. She seems to write merely to pass the time.

>>959559

You dredge everything to a base level.

*Fuck Twilight

Phillip K Dick has made his unknown works permanent for wanna be movie makers like myself. Example: look at Blade Runner and probably A Scanner Darkly (Well some of you did not like that movie).

>>959605

I didn't like Blade Runner, the design was great but the director seemed compositionally indecisive.

A Scanner Darkly is excellent.

My favorite American writer is Shakespearicles, the strongest writer ever.

He invented the rocket launcher, possessed an unparalleled grasp of language, and could bench press 700 British Pounds.

>>959610

You dredge everything to the basest level when it comes to a serious discussion.

>>959613

No he did not.

>>959613

>serious discussion
>twilight

Yeah.

>>959616

Notice what happens above? I address another's question, and there's no reply, because there was nothing legitimate in my interlocutor's pretenses.

>>959616

>>959620
Well how do you know she's not typing up a big multi-post response in notepad right now

>>959621

How could this happen

>>959551
I agree in Melville’s importance as a “verbal inventor.” However, I’d like to point out that the topic of discussion here, we are not debating which author had bigger and more influence on the rest of literature as a whole instead we are discussing the quality of the two books. This idea of better quality does not stem from how it implements a new but instead how it can be judged empirically. My favorite author, Joyce was not the best because of how he pioneered stream of consciousness, but because his novels were the best and remain the best at implanting it. I am not debating that Melville is the more influential author, just that the book is worse at entertaining (literatures primary focus).
Second you present the idea that the blind assassin is bad because it drew upon previous narrative styles. However, mastery also expresses itself in how one can earlier techniques, and creates something new and better. An example would be in cooking, when master chefs return to make a basic egg dish. That is exactly what Atwood did, she took previous narrative ideas of nested stories and wove a tale that holds ones attention throughout.
However, I think our disagreement comes from what attracts us when we read novels. I like interesting narrative styles, emphasizing the way the story is told. This attraction is why I like Joyce, David Mitchell and Atwood. I found Moby-Dick’s descriptions at time to long and boring, they were like the Ian McEwan’s description of surgery in Saturday except even more mundane.

>>959685
Gah, I typed to quickly too many typos please forgive me.

>>959489
lol

>>959489

Haha, well the w looks like a vagina...

>>959331
...but they serve the same damned purpose. Man. resulting to petty insults when they have nothing to say. What a bitter little child.