>The Republic
>Good

What the fuck.

>>399775
My thoughts exactly.

You mean Plato.

And yes, Plato is the most awesome man ever if you exclude Jesus.

>>399775
>>399786

Are you guys serious?
What didn't you like about it?

>>399775
But what about Phaedo? that shit was twice as awesome and as tedious.

>he believes in souls!

laughingsensiblegentlemen.png

>>399800

Souls = minds

You don't believe in minds?

>>399799

>and as tedious
You have Attention-deficit disorder?

>>399791
Plato was garbage and Jesus probably didn't even exist, and if he did he was garbage too. Seriously, turn 18 already.

>>399807

mind = mutable, something the brain does

nothing at all like a soul

>>399807
>substance dualism
Oh you. Children sure are precious.

>Plato was garbage
>Jesus probably didn't even exist
>mind = mutable

Troll harder

>>399835

Dualism?

Platonism was essentially a monistic philosophy.

>>399833
The good part is that it's easy to tell appart people who haven't even read it and are angsty teen trolls. And probably atheists too.

>>399842
Is this some kind of advanced trolling? Seriously.. what the fuck. Plato is garbage and anyone who disagrees lacks the ability of any critical thought. Jesus probably didn't exist and your concept of mind is laughable.

>>399833
Equality, however is eternal, just like the soul of men.

>>399828

>Jesus probably didn't even exist

>>399875
Uhh if he's garbage why is he so popular WTF!!!!!WTF?? What th eheck??WhaT the !!!What the!!

>>399865

Aie!
Two of Plato's "soul parts" are clearly mutable.
Read the dialogues before criticizing em.

Either /lit/ is the dumbest board on 4chan, or these people are trolls.

>>399807
>>399842
>>399877
>>399865
>>399876

>>399828

>The Christ myth theory is essentially without supporters in modern academic circles.

>>399886
>If the bible is garbage why is it so popular?!
>If twilight is garbage why is it so popular?!

/lit/ is dumber than /b/..

>>399884

reported.

>>399875
Plato founded Western Philosophy
Jesus, or at least the idea of Jesus, founded what is currently the largest religion in the world, and most of the basis of Western culture.
You calling Plato garbage just makes you sound like an idiot when the greatest philosophers of the past have based their ideas off of things he started.

>>399898
First of all way to get trolled, second of all the Bible is an important aspect of humankind's history.

Twilight I cannot explain.

>>399899

Nice sage, broseph.

400000 get

>>399918
cool story bro

>>399909

Seriously? The Bible and Twilight are popular for the same reasons; they offer cheap and tawdry entertainment which speaks to the simple-minded masses.

>>399927
The bible is simple? How so?

>>399927

Is the bible different from other sacred texts in this regard?

>>399905
He was influential and garbage. Influential, but garbage none the less.

>>399927
Pretty much this

>>399936

Why was he garbage?

>>399936
Cool opinion bro.

>>399927
Then it is settled. Plato, The Bible and Twilight have that is common.

>>399941
explain

>>399936
>garbagegarbagegarbagegarbagegarbage
come on, offer something better than that. I think you're just jealous that Plato gets more ass than you do and he's been dead for over 2000 years

>>399957

Explain why I'm asking why Plato is garbage?

Because I know he isn't.

>>399895
Hello Christian dude. Produce some evidence.

>>399795

It's totalitarian in a naive way. The entire text is essentially him schilling out a different religion. Aside from the ubiquitous metaphor of The Cave there is absolutely nothing of worth in The Republic.

Aristotle has a much heavier hand in terms of the foundation of Western thought.

>>399934

It's filled with murder, rape, sex, incest, war, genocide, and magic, all laced with uncomplicated and easy to digest common sense morals.

>>399966
just like Twilight and Plato.

>>399964

"Today, nearly all historians, whether Christians or not, accept that Jesus existed and that the gospels contain plenty of valuable evidence which has to be weighed and assessed critically. There is general agreement that, with the possible exception of Paul, we know far more about Jesus of Nazareth than about any first or second century Jewish or pagan religious teacher." Stanton 2002, p. 145

"No reputable scholar today questions that a Jew named Jesus son of Joseph lived; most readily admit that we now know a considerable amount about his actions and his basic teachings." Charlesworth 2006, p. xxiii

"I don't think there's any serious historian who doubts the existence of Jesus. There are a lot of people who want to write sensational books and make a lot of money who say Jesus didn't exist. But I don't know any serious scholar who doubts the existence of Jesus." Ehrman 2008

"[T]he view that there was no historical Jesus, that his earthly existence is a fiction of earliest Christianity—a fiction only later made concrete by setting his life in the first century—is today almost totally rejected." Wells 1988, p. 218

>>399965

This reflects a very poor surface reading at best.

Guys, you can stop answering trolls now. I mean since when did we take posts like >>399886 seriously?

>>399966
Or maybe you're just an angst atheist. http://www.newtonproject.sussex.ac.uk/prism.php?id=136&cat=Religion

Hey guys I'm Plato.. I got this awesome idea. I think smart people should be in charge. WHOA! People like me dude. Cus I am smart and do philosophy and shit. Man.. that is almost as good as my awesome idea about forms which is totally not retarded.

>>399966

easy to digest common sense morals?

Have you read the bible?

This place is starting to resemble yahoo answers...

>>399964

Jesus existed, bro. It's, like, a commonly accepted idea.

The only thing that's argued about is whether or not was actually divine, or just some dude who went around preaching.

Protip: Jesus never claimed to be the son of God.

Baruch Spinoza sees your arguments and... well, he both proves them and disproves them, being awesome along the way.

>>400000
cool get bro

>>400000
....

>>399966
>common sense morals
As if such things exist.

>>400005
Spinoza wasn't even cool enough to keep himself from getting exiled from Amsterdam. By Jews.
Unless I'm thinking of an entirely different Spinoza. I don't really do first names that well.

>>400014
Well, he was too cool to be a jew, so they cast him out. They couldn't handle the truth, man.

>>400010

By morals I meant, like, "the moral of the story is."

>>399995
>Jesus existed, bro. It's, like, a commonly accepted idea.

Good evidence bro. Oh wait, you produced nothing.

>>399985
Did you know he studied things that are as long as they are, then how exactly are their ideas retarded? He paved the way for more knowledge, but never claimed to have the absolute truth as you are doing now.

>>400000

>>400023
So you won't belive anything before you born existed right?

>>400017
Man, he was all like, "Hey, let's go back to Moses' original laws and kill slaves and shit"
and those Jews were all like, "Chill the fuck out, brah, we're past that now."
And Spinoza was all like, "Fuck that shit and fuck you too, I'm doing this."
And the Jews were all like, "That's it man, get the fuck out of our Jew-kingdom, we're sick of your shit."

>>400022
He is almost on the same level as the Berenstain Bears.

>>400010

There are common sense morals. Don't kill, don't rape, don't steal. If you do these things, you feel bad. Common sense.

>>400023
read
>>399977

>>400029
Yes, everything with sufficient evidence.

>>400033

It's Berenstein, cockbite.

>>400044
http://www.berenstainbears.com/
ORLY?

>>400014
>>400017

You're thinking of the same Spinoza. He wasn't 'too cool to be Jewish', in fact he knew Jewish texts better than just about anyone else. His philosophies, Pantheism and the like, caused all sorts of commotion.

Now, I'm a Pantheist myself, but I don't ever call myself 'above Judaism'. It remains my heritage, and I doubt I'd ever deny that.

>>400032
Thats....an interesting reading of him. He was more like "your laws no longer apply, OLD MAN." and the jews were like "yay they do" and he was "nuh-uh", so then they jewraged and cast him out.

>>400050
wait, hit me with the definition of pantheism, broheim.

>>400043
But for example you won't believe Alexander the Great existed right? All evidence is too old and could be handmade. Amirite?

>>400052
i don't actually remember anything I learned about him or how I know about him at all, so I didn't really expect that to be very accurate. The point is, Jews hate him.

>>399977
You realize those are all christian apologists.

Really? If I could steal anything without being caught, I probably would have a perfect conscience. If I could kill someone I really wanted dead for legitimate reasons without repercussions, I might do it and feel fine. Rape is self explanatory...not all people are the same so you can't really just say "you feel bad".

>>400066 replied to >>400038, can't delete for some reason

>>400054

Pantheism attributes 'god-like' status to the Universe and everything within it. It goes further, holding true to the omniscience of 'God', though Pantheist generally avoid using terms like 'God' being that the definitions we ride by are a bit... different.

I'm going to sleep now, but add me on AIM (forcedelta8) and I'd gladly tell you more about it. I'm writing a book about Pantheism, actually. :)

>>400063

The first two appear to be Christian.
The third is an agnostic.

Does any of this disprove what they say?

>>400063
he's provided more sources than you have.
and at this point it's kind of common sense.
The only things I've ever seen saying Jesus didn't exist were intense atheist propaganda. Like Dawkins, but even Dawkinsier.

>>400076
You should become a tripfag brosef, we need identify philosophers appart from trolls.

>>400055
Obviously I do, but I don't believe in the biblical Jesus. A guy who the biblical Jesus was based on maybe.

>>400092
See, that makes sense. Jesus may not have been the Son of God and all he's cracked up to be, but it's extremely probable that he existed as a preacher and religious leader.

>>400092

You do realize that accounts of Alexander the Great are also exaggerated right?

That's plato. . . .

>>400106
You realise that doesn't really matter, right?

>>400118
Oh but it does, because you didn't think Jesus existed because he was an over the top human. (Later you changed your mind.)

>>400114
There are no paintings of Aristotle at all dude.

There's no evidence that Plato was a real person. They've actually discovered recent evidence that his work was all actually written in the 19th century.

>>400133
no they haven't, faggot.

>>400132

>>400106
The gospels are not accounts.

>>400127
You aren't talking to the same guy.

>>400133

Can you cite these sources of yours?
I'd be interested in looking them over.

>>400133
I've heard the universe was just created 3 decades ago and all history is a made up expetiment of aliens.

>>400151
I'd like to see someone try to prove otherwise.

>>400140
FFFFFFFFFFF

Why is he younger? I always imagined Aristotle as a very tall man white bearded and very impossing.

>>400127
That isn't me. The biblical Jesus didn't exist. Perhaps based on someone who did. As if, you know, Captain Ahab was based on someone.

>>400142

Even if you discard the gospels (which would be a mistake), you are still left with the likes of Josephus, Tacitus, and Suetonius.

>>400160
Well, it's obvious that...
The evidence shows...
You can clearly see...
Fuck you.

>>400149
It's common knowledge bro.

>>399905

And how exactly Plato founded the Western philosophy?? you sure you don't mean Socrates?

>>400164
The Bible itself is a hoax, written in the 50s. I can't believe there are people who read that shit.

>>400164
So people just made up something and everyone started believing and then the world became christian and then we are what we are today? Sounds reasonable to me.

>>400174

Socrates left no written works.
Gauging his impact accurately is impossible.

Plato, on the other hand, has clearly been the beginning of pretty much every philosophical conversation.

>>400176

How do you explain pre-modern biblical commentaries?

>>400174
Socrates provided the groundworks, obviously, being Plato's teacher, but there's nothing by him that really expounds on his philosophy, and most of our knowledge of him comes from Plato. Plato's works and ideas really built on Socrates and created philosophies of his own.

>>400186
those were written in the '60s.

>>400170
No, the gospels are not accounts but at best a collection of hearsay. Matthew and Luke are based on Mark. Tacitus was born after Jesus was already supposedly dead the same with Josephus and Suetonius was born a whole two generations after the supposed death of Jesus.

>>400200

It's funny that you say these things because a scholar actually argued that all classical latin literature was written by Christian monks in the medieval ages.

Does anyone remember his name?

>>400180
Desert sheep herders are critical thinkers.

>>400212
he was invented in the '90s, he never actually existed.

>>400211
>Matthew and Luke are based on Mark

The Q business is far from definitive.

As for the other accounts, we have more than most historical characters, and most of them aren't questioned. Why subject accounts of Jesus to undue scrutiny?

>>400180
Worked for Scientology and every other religion.

>>400195
And then Aristotle was pupil of Plato, and then Alexander the great was pupil of Aristotle.

Awesome followed by even more awesomeness. That's why all art and literature eventually tries to return to the greeks.

>>400224
>Desert sheep herders are critical thinkers.
The Greeks and Romans certainly were.
How did they get converted?

>>400176
lol what

>>400230

>Worked for Scientology and every other religion.
It worked for every successful religion?
In other words, it doesn't always work?
In other words, what you are saying is meaningless?

>>400230
Scientology is just a Hoax to make you proud of your own religion, it was invented on '95.

Sure is /x/ in here

>>400236
For sure.
The Greeks were the true Master Race.
Say hello to ΔdΩlph Πitler.

>>400276

Is that who has been screwing up my thread?

>>400264
1995 was invented in late 2004, it never actually happened.
Most modern scientists postulate that the universe began in late 2002.

>>400183

You've won a thousand internets, sir. Thank you.

One more question, plz: when exactly philosophy becomes less metaphysical? I kinda missed that class

>>400295
>when exactly philosophy becomes less metaphysical? I kinda missed that class

The seeds were always there but I would argue that the big shift came with the rise of late medieval nominalism (Ockham and friends).

>>400318
William of Ockham is a beast.
Even though he gave rise to the stupidest argument for Christianity ever.

>>400295
Not him, but I think it goes through cycles of idealism and realism.

The same Aristotle was less idealist, much latter some tried to explain metaphysics the best the could, but it has never really dissapeared.

>William of Ockham is a beast.

Indeed.
He tore down and tore down and never put anything back up.

Plato, Socrates, Aristotle...

Just a bunch of liberal arts majors.

>>400256
For something to be a religion it has to move out of the cult status. All religions start as cults. So to become a religion you have many people who believe in something that is completely made up. To say successful is meaningless. The standard to reach is becoming a religion. If it doesn't become a religions then It isn't referred to. However, by this standard all religions are successful. For they all became religions. All religions require believers or they won't even achieve cult status. When saying it worked for every other religion, that is, making something up and getting a lot of people to believe it. It has worked for all religions, or they wouldn't be religions.

>>400355
>For something to be a religion it has to move out of the cult status
actually, in America, all you need is 7 people for a religion. True story.

>>400367
Here I come tax exemption.

>>400355
I mat argue time is required for a religion to be successfull, then we may call Aztec religion not successfull and Christianism successfull.

>>400386
>Christianism

>>400386
>I mat argue time is required for a religion to be successfull, then we may call Aztec religion not successfull and Christianism successfull.

Diogenes masturbated in public just to piss people off. Niceeeee

>>400435
well, he wore a barrel.
The original cynics were fucking ridiculous.
Weirder than the Pythagoreans.

>>400386

>Christianism

i disagree.

this was an educational thread, i have learned a lot, thank you 4chan.

>>400386

>I mat argue time is required for a religion to be successfull, then we may call Aztec religion not successfull and Christianism successfull.

>>400386