precognitive dream and spirits

I'm an agnostic. Only thing that makes sense to me, seeing as I DON'T KNOW THE SECRETS OF THE UNIVERSE.

I'm an atheist, but I'm uneducated and know nothing about metaphysics. So there's that.

I am, I'm just not a dick about it.

Religion doesn't matter unless someone is demeaning your beliefs while espousing their own.

Prove there is no god, and I will accept your proof.

Until then, I will continue ignoring the whole question, as I have been doing all along.

(Also, Sage)

Music was enough for Vonnegut.
Some people juggle geese.

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I'm going to come on /lit/ at the same time tomorrow, and I'm going to see this thread. Fuck you, OP. It's summer; this will get replies. You have taken it upon yourself to kick us when we're down, and you don't care.

I'm not an atheist. I'm not a theist. I'm not an agnostic.

Existence and non-existence are one and the same.

I don't believe in God or religion, but I don't believe in going overboard about atheism either. Too many atheists push it in the same frothing-at-the-mouth way that religious nuts do.

The existence or non-existence of a god or deity of any sort is utterly unimportant to me. Whether or not a god exists has no relevance to my life.

I believe in god and I think he's a big stupid faggot.
Come at me, bro!
That's what I thought, you stupid faggot asshole retard motherfucker.
God is a pussy.

>>2827798
fuck you're a dumbass

ITT: incoming tripfag/anon feud

you can't prove absence to something that can never be known with absolute certainty.

Therefore, the statement that "god does not exist" is an assumption that cannot be proven. The more reasonable statement is "God does not appear to exist"

now roll around in the mud, you unwashed serf

Religion is so retarded I can't even.

It's gotten to the point where I refuse to talk Christians about anything remotely intelligent. Their delusions have such a stronghold on their minds that all discussion is impossible.

>>2827811
Most atheists only go so far as to say "God does not appear to exist" and then wonder why people behave as if God does appear to exist.

>>2827824
You can't place a probability on it.

all that god needs to do is show up and say "hay guise, I'm god" then this debate will be over.

>>2827827
But it's asinine to assume you know the specifics. Even if a God (or gods) does exist, how do you know you aren't just pissing him/her/it/them off by the things you do in an attempt to worship?

>>2827831
OP is God and enjoys watching people have shitfits.

>>2827816
How ironic

God is a massive troll but can't troll people of his/her/its own intellect and thus has to make nowhere near omniscient/omnipotent beings to bully around. But even those lowly creatures are becoming too much of a handful.

There are no more miracles because God is afraid of us.

1) Because the belief that a God does not exist is just as uncertain as the belief that a God does exist

2) Because the definition of God has changed over many periods throughout history, it is under my belief that God is really a human creation, birthed through our ideas and perceptions about what God is.

I'm curious why this always seems to get a rise out of /lit/. It seems like it is the only board that is anti-atheist.
Atheists can't prove God does not exists, sure. But if you believe you have no way of knowing, how is your spiritual life any different from an atheists?

>>2827852
/lit/'s default position would reject epistemological positions like atheist and theist altogether, in favour of ontological ones like agnostic.

>>2827852
We're anti-atheist, not anti-atheism.

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Because in most debates i have seen between an educated Christian and an Atheist, the Atheist gets thoroughly destroyed or its just about even.

pic very related

If I believe in Spinoza's idea of "god" am I a theist?

it takes a special kind of moron to automatically believe in whatever bullshit was spouted from the mouths of primitive, two thousand year old nomadic jews running around in the desert making shit up to create purpose. not a single thing makes it any more valid than greek mythology or fucking native american religions.

every time there's a religion thread on /lit/ my jimmies are instantly rustled by the sheer amount of christian scum on the board who can't into the simplest rational thought. i'm going to create a cult and two thousand years from now there will be 2 billion idiots believing in my every word despite how much it doesn't correlate to reality.

however, belief in a god isn't so far fetched. it's just the religionization of god that gets me.

I am an atheist. At the same time, I'd I'm not a theist, atheist or agnostic.

That is because I have no religion, I don't pray at night, I don't subscribe to the whole objective call on reality or that the universe is made of the intentions of a man-like thing.

But God is just a word, it is meaningless to deny a word. God can be anything, some definitions for "God" are perfectly accepted by me. This whole debate goes over a bunch of transferences and attachment to concepts people don't understand.

You say God does not exist and that it is obvious because the Bible feels as real as Lord of the Rings and the news will give you enough injustice for you to cry about God not existing. So someone says "God bless you" and you go apeshit for it, not getting that this God might not be a being, but a name for the conversation we hold to the things around us. So it really is "all be well if you, pal".

In the same way, people deny scientific discoveries, because they can't adapt their beliefs for shit. They hold on to dogmas, to books, to translations of translations of ancient scriptures. That's just idiotic.I blame fucking materialism, utilitarianism and a bunch of -isms that cursed our world.

God existing or not existing is a ridiculous discussion. God is nature, God is morals, God is the river, but the river is also "river". The point is that it is a reflection of ourselves and instead of just saying no, we better treat it seriously so that we can understand ourselves better.

>>2827863
Anyone who uses the word "destroyed" to describe debates is retarded.

>>2827863

WLC actually knows philosophy and logic better than his opponents. So instead of them picking apart the fallacies in his arguments they either go off on tangents or just miss the point and to a careful viewer it seems like they lost the argument.

But if you yourself know some philosophy you can easily see the baseless assumptions and fallacies in all of WLC arguments. He usually just borrows Platinga's shit anyway or recycled theistic arguments that have been beat to death.

WLC is a good debater though, but at the same time he's full of shit, and I'm 100% sure he knows it--he just likes to argue for arguments sake, it's obviously a game to him.

>>2827878

You're not a good enough storyteller to get that many people to follow you. The Christ/Redemption story is the crowning achievement in literature. I'm not saying it's true, but it's everything humans want to believe. It's so much easier to believe that one will never die than to accept the alternative.

>>2827893

humans also like to believe they are special and superior. Fascist propaganda pleases many of them.

>>2827893
>It's so much easier to believe that one will never die than to accept the alternative.
Is it?

So, the people in this thread who are arguing actually think they're going to settle this tonight?

>>2827877 here.
Anybody?

Agnostic. There's too many interesting facets in religions from around the world. Too many symbols and overlap of them. It's all terribly interesting. Also, there are just senses and feelings that I believe go beyond scientific theory.

>>2827912
Personally, I think you're just changing the definition of god and can't really be considered a theist.

>>2827912
Congratulations, you just got to the point of overcoming atheist vs theist discussions because you realized God can mean anything.

Define God and it's not God anymore. God is perfect and because of that you can't attach meaning to it without falling for contradiction.

>if he is perfect how come you can't define it and he'd be cool?
See? I shouldn't have used that word to describe it.

>>2827928
I figured as much. I prefer the "nature" term anyway.

>>2827942
Not sure if Christian

>>2827917
I think science, with all its inherent dogma and supposedly indisputable precepts, has become today's religion. And at the risk of falling into the good-bad dichotomy, I believe that's not a positive thing. I'm pretty much a follower of Paul Feyerabend's insight on this.

>Atheist
Only faggots and plebs are atheists.
>2012
>Not being an agnostic.

>>2827898

Yes, because if the average person didn't want to live on as long as possible, humans would have evolutioned straight into extinction.

>>2827967
Atheism doesn't imply a positive belief in the non-existence of God. It implies only a lack of belief in God. If you don't know if any deity exists, then you don't have belief, even though you also don't believe they DON'T exist.

You're an agnostic atheist, then.

Agnostic theism is possible, too.

Dogmatic theism: "I believe one or more gods exist and nothing can ever convince me otherwise."
Agnostic theism: "I believe one or more gods exist but am aware I could be wrong."
Agnostic atheism: "I don't believe in any gods but I also don't believe they don't exist, or I believe they don't exist but acknowledge that I could be wrong."
Dogmatic atheism: "I don't believe in any gods and nothing can ever convince me otherwise."

>>2827967
Atheist and agnostic aren't mutually exclusive.
My belief that the existence of God is unknowable leads me to behave as if no God exists.

>>2827953
I'm >>2827887

I was never Christian.

You guys should see more Alan Watts videos, read more of Jodorowsky's psicomagia, read some Jung. And then also read some Carl Sagan too.

You'll see it's all within ourselves anyway.

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>>2827767
>What's your excuse, /lit/?
>MFW

Actually there are virtually no good arguments for atheism.
There are good arguments for agnostics, but for an atheist every argument erodes into an ignorant match based on who has better moral values.

>>2828009
please see
>>2827977

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>>2828007
>Jung
>Sagan
>Watts

>>2827956
Oh I fully agree. I always thought it was terribly clever in that one episode of South Park where they showed in the future how no religions existed, just science... and yet the scientists started factioning off and acting exactly like any crackpot organized religion would. I always go back to one of my Philosophy classes. Full of Biology majors who could only see value in Dawkins' The Selfish Gene and acted like any work that went against science-based Atheism was a waste of their time.

>>2828007
> also read some Carl Sagan too.

Sagan is terrible when it comes to theology, he often ends his strings of ignorant arguments with a statement paraphrasing;
>Absence of evidence is evidence of absence

>>2828007
>Watts
Sure.
>Jodorowsky
Who?
>Jung
Nah.
>Sagan
Unnecessary.

>>2828007
These guys have come closer to my view of the spiritual than most anything else has. My dad gave me Watt's Taboo in high school and it really resonated with me and sort of started my theological and philosophical studies. Certainly did a hell of a lot more for me than being raised Catholic where I only had an "experience" through the act of Communion.

I hate atheism. The mystical and spiritual are clearly observable phenomena. I can understand not subscribing to religious language, but to say it's invalid is really frustrating.

Unless you're one of those reactionary atheists who thinks atheism is just about "not believing in God." I'm hoping you're not. Because those people are stupid.

>>2828032
>clearly observable phenomena

uh uh
that's slang for "no"

>>2828020
I don't know if that's good or bad.

>>2828025
I think his enthusiasm for nature and science is admirable and inspiring. I think this is important after reading about religion way too much. It's good to break the ice, you don't have to agree with it all. In fact, I disagree with things all of them said at some point, but that is only natural.

>>2828026
Jodorowsky is into tarot and alchemy, but he uses this ideas in terms of psychology, he uses them as symbols. Jung is great man, give it a chance. And it's all unnecessary, it's just my recommendation.

>>2828030
It's good to get some fresh air to think for ourselves, isn't it?

>>2828032
Atheism is a way to believe in God without using the word God. Put that in your head and you'll be more in peace about it. What you hate are the things some atheists attach to themselves, dogmas and things they take for granted.

>>2828038
Exceptional experiences always happen. It's just that some people close their minds and cling to some idea they have about it and others disregard it as an illusion. It's the same thing, the illusion, the fake, the real, because the experience is what happened, not our idea about the experience.

>>2828013
>>2827977
>Atheism doesn't imply a positive belief in the non-existence of God. *SNIP*

Definition from the greek;
Atheos = No god/s
ism = a set of beliefs, doctrine, or branch of knowledge
Atheism = No god/s belief, doctrine, etc.

What you are describing;
>It implies only a lack of belief in God
Would be called;
"A-ism-in-theism"
"No-belief-in-God-belief"

The rest of the post pairs adjectives with nouns with exampled definitions.
>No argument to be had
>Semantics time waster
>lol, another greek word!

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>>2828054
>Atheism is a way to believe in God without using the word God
>MFW

>>2827956
Thirding this.

For reasons quite unknown to me, and in a way that runs counter to what I would expect based on rationality, my life is better when I pronounce faith in, and pray to, a higher power. I am not ruling out the possibility that I have merely experienced a series of happy coincidences which my personal selection bias has highlighted to the exclusion of evidence against this conclusion. But to stop doing these things might entail my life becoming a lot shittier than it currently is, which is to say, as it was before I began doing these things..

>>2828074
maybe your hidden desire for there to be a God has overcome your rationality, making you do things you wouldn't do if you didn't believe in God. You want to believe in God so hard that you're willing to change your behavior in an effort to support the existence of God.

>>2828081
What's so irrational about believing in God if it makes you feel better?

>>2828057
theos = gods
ism = a set of beliefs

theism = belief in gods
a = no
atheism = no belief in gods

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>>2828081
ehh, perhaps.
>not a single fuck given

>>2828066
Well, aren't you a science man? Isn't science about uncovering reality, about looking for truth, about stating how things really are and not some scarecrow definition for it? Isn't it all about accepting the universe and nature as it is without illusions?

To a lot of theists, the word for that is God. Remember when Newton said his experiments was about studying God? That God he speaks and the nature the scientist of today is studying is the very same. To a lot of theists, atheists are "denying God", in the sense that they are "denying reality". But that is wrong. And to the atheist, theism is about an imaginary friend and denying things as they are.

Theism is the same as atheism, but in the name of God. Both sides need to understand that they are talking about the same thing. When we get to discuss it we are trapped by religion, by "ideas about God" and "ideas about the universe", ideas which are dogmatic, which are mistaken for ultimate truth. Those are the stuff we hate on others.

>>2828084

>a = no

HUEHUEHAUEHUEHAUHEUAHEUHAEUHAUEHAUEHUA

Non-European-Non-Classic-Education-No-Knowledge-of-latin-whatsoever-fag detected

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>>2827793
*cringe*

>become occultist
>know god instead of believing in him
>???
>profit

I don't define myself by the thing I don't believe, with a negative attribute, it's retarded. You don't respond " I hate Twhilight " when you're asked about your taste in books, you say " I like Proust. "

this christopher hitchens style atheist shit is just as annoying as christian door knockers

stop that shit nobody cares