Literature is its own redemption.
Suck it up and breathe in the life nectar.

you've almost got a degree, yes? join an army and make a difference - violence is a great way to feel alive, and you're saving and killing real people instead of writing masturbatory bullshit.

well, you're likely opposed to that. a more relevant answer - soft words for soft minds - intellectual rigor is life. abandoning it is easy, but if you do, prepare to abandon self-respect, unless you can interpret it away as 'exploiting the system.'

I'm studying English because I want to teach. Other than that, I'm fairly sure I could read books without a degree ...

>>2619086

No.

>>2619114

But like, why teach it?

I knew an English degree was kind of worthless going into college, so I majored in something I could get a job in too. Good compromise, I think.

>>2619130

I've never been worried about the monetary value of it. Everyone knows about that. What I'm trying to cope with is the fact that I'm beginning to consider the study immoral.

As an English student I feel that way too. Going to drop out and get a job. I still love literature, though.

>>2619135

Knowledge is its own reward.

great, you're questioning the academic circlejerk. next you'll realize there is no one "correct" way to study or enlighten yourself, and then that the study of culture and literature itself has very little to do with the particulars of how one culture approaches that study. then you might be one of the 0.1% of any generation of any culture's intellectual elite that isn't just an unconscious upper class intelligentsia.

>>2619086
It's enlightening. Though if you ever hear the word postmodernism then you've just wasted 4 years.

>>2619146

You think there's absolutely zero value in postmodernist thinking/writing?

>>2619135

Fair enough. I'd say most books written are either masturbatory or intended for entertainment. But some writing has made a real measurable difference in the world. And then there's the immeasurable stuff, like changing people's views.

>>2619150
Yes.

>>2619155

Which school of thought do you prefer?

>>2619155

Please go on.

>>2619160
It's nihilistic. To my simple thinking this is not a good thing.
>>2619159
I do not have a prefered school of thought. I'm not an intellectual.

>>2619168

Then please cease making absolute value judgements about ideologies you can't argue against.

Literature is a point of reference from which you can discuss a great number of things. If you're not interested in engaging in such intellectual conversation, then there's no reason you cannot pursue some other way of life which is geared more toward application.

>>2619170
I have common sense. I understand that in the academic world this no longer means anything. I think postmodernists are lost in a wilderness of jargon. Jargon that makes no sense to anyone else not equally lost.

>>2619086
Literature drop-out here. Philosophy drop-out too. I felt the same way and couldn't stomach it anymore. Now I'm a useless unemployed bum with no hope for the future.

Time for a riot.

>>2619183

It's not just jargon. It's a model for trying to understand reality, and some of it is certainly relevant.

>>2619191
Hope is not lost. Try engineering.

>>2619183

Why do you care? You're not an academic. You have no business reading theory in the first place, and you don't even sound interested in it at all.

>>2619194
>a model for trying to understand reality
May I ask: do you believe in the scientific method? Is the scientific method lacking in any way? Does postmodernism enhance the scientific method?

>>2619207

One of the largest tenets of postmodernism is a critique of the scientific method.

>>2619204
Why do I care? Because it has an effect on the world. You sound like you're making an argument from authority. You are aware this is fallacious are you not?

>>2619201
Can't afford it. Not sure if I even want to anymore. I think I'll just become a badass factory worker with a political agenda.

>>2619213
I know. This might be the major reason I don't like it.

>>2619207
For me, the central benefit of postmodernism is its encouraging to examine and dis-assemble aspects of life that would otherwise be taken for granted - certain ideologies, language, cultural biases, sexual preferences, etc. Is this inherently good? No, nothing is. BUT . . it allows you to step outside of your own world-view long enough to realize that there are multiple ways in which you can make contact with reality . . as there are multiple ways in which you can define reality.

>>2619214

>Why do I care? Because it has an effect on the world.

No, it really doesn't. I know /pol/ has gotten their hands on the term 'postmodern' lately and has been making scary comics about things they don't understand. But honestly, no one but other academics really gives a fuck about postmodern theory.

And I have no idea how you could think I was making an argument from authority. I didn't even cite any authority, let alone an invalid one.

>>2619223
To follow up on this, though . . postmodernism's benefit can also be its downfall, in that that same expansiveness of world-view can lead to a complete and total arbitrariness, in which 'everything' is seen as both 'true and false' . . this is a mistake, I think, and that's why I think postmodern should be coupled with physical science, AS LONG AS physical science is understood in a modal and not an absolute sense. For example, postmodern encourages us to see gender as a social construct, which can be quite useful, but we HAVE to fit this new definition in with what we know of evolutionary biology . . as long we understand that evolutionary biology is a HUMAN perception of biological events, and not necessarily 'how nature intended.'

>>2619224
> I know /pol/ has gotten their hands on the term 'postmodern' lately and has been making scary comics about things they don't understand.

Oh my. Is it the new cultural marxism?

>>2619223
Your first sentence I have no problem with.
>multiple ways in which you can define reality
This is the part I disagree with.
Let me ask flat out with no nuance... people who do not accept the scientific method, what makes them different from fundamentalist christians?

>>2619233

It's getting there.

Well at least I know why /lit/ is so bad now, you fuckers couldn't even finish an English degree

>>2619224
>You're not an academic. You have no business reading theory in the first place
This part made me thing that.

>But honestly, no one but other academics really gives a fuck about postmodern theory.

I hope you are right! :)

>>2619231
You strike me as a very reasonable person. Even though we might disagree about postmodernism being nihilistic.

I suppose I'm an absolutest in a way. I see the scientific method as being the best, and actually only, way to understand the world.

Disagreements with the scientific method, whether they come from the right or the left, I find very troubling.
The scientific method is the only thing that anchors me to reality.

>>2619242

Things you think you know about but you actually do not:

1. Appeal to authority fallacy
2. Postmodern literary theory

>>2619251

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientism

>>2619254
Appeal to authority fallacy is something I know about. I suspect you just don't like being caught having used it.

Postmodern literary theory is something I know far less about that anyone else in this thread. I have a general impression of it.

The study of literature is an amazing way to train one's mind. Just as even if you never use it in your career, learning trig in high school taught you how to think.

Studying literature as a career though? I'm not so sure, but in some cases it's valid. If your contributions to the field help other people to question their interpretations or again 'learn how to think,' then you've done something worth while.

Philosophers don't serve a direct practical purpose. However, the world would be worse off without their thoughts and works. I imagine plenty of people told Epicurus to get a job.

>>2619256
I've added that link to my stuff.txt file. I read the header and will read the rest of the entry when I've got the time. Thanks! I am not opposed to learning something.

>>2619257

>Appeal to authority fallacy is something I know about. I suspect you just don't like being caught having used it.

You're a very weak mind.

If anything, I was using ad hominem in that post. Not appeal to authority. But then, of course, you're probably one of those wiki scholars who think ad-hom is just a synonym for "insult". But either way, the fact that you're not an academic (far from it, as we've come to see) is tertiary at best. You're just railing against things you don't understand for no discernible reason other than "NOT SCIENCE".

A double-major is looking pretty enticing right now

I'm thinking Lit and Comp Sci

>>2619086

OP, why the fuck should the study of culture not be worthwhile? Cultural products and love are probably the only things humans ever got right. Contributing to the understanding of our most important human achievments can never be futile (well, except you're writing shit-tier papers). I agree about co-eds though, most if not all are dumb as fuck.

If you're asking job wise... humanities are depicted worse than they actually are. You actually learn thinking for yourself and thinking critical here, which should not be underestimated, not even when it comes to finding jobs. Do you have any friend studying economics? These fags are basically sheep who learn nothing apart from memorizing scripts. Not even sure if they ever write proper papers/essays.

>>2619273

Say what you want about literature and culture, but finance is fuckin worthless.

>>2619268
>You're a very weak mind.
The reason for this statement is simply that I disagree with you. If you want to view the world this way I cannot stop you.

>no discernible reason other than "NOT SCIENCE".
This is a really big reason to me.

>>2619272
That sounds like a winner to me.

>>2619086
Everyone must construct their own person existential reason for any choice that they make. The reason underpinning my decision to study literature was that I found literature to be "beautiful" or to point towards beauty, and I subscribe to the conception that existence is inherently filled with agony and pain and boredom and other experiences which are generally unappealing and unwanted and the only way that I have found to in any way mitigate my desire for suicide as an escape from this omnipresent agony of existence is to contemplate beauty, the contemplation of which has been achieved largely in my case through literature. If you cease to find literature to be meaningful or beautiful then I would recommend selecting something else.

OP, I'm in my starting years of college and can honestly say that while I'm majoring in English- (Trying to decide another subject to possibly major in. Possibly minor in Philosophy.) at the same time I despair a lot about the field sometimes.

I really want to end up teaching about literature, I want to get my P.H.D.

But at the same time I start discussing things with fellow students and sometimes the ideas just repulse me, I'm sure I mess up enough as well though.

It can be a depressing field at times, but I still want to work hard and learn for my own sake.
I want to become more intelligent and I want to help others become more intelligent. My past teachers inspired me to do so.

My two cents. If you wish to pursue the field, pursue it. Learn for the sake of learning, find a way to put your knowledge to use somehow. Rise above the views you disapprove of.

>>2619293
This is interesting.
I agree with everything you just said. Except your last sentence is incorrect. I do find literature to be meaningful and beautiful. I hated reading in grade school but for whatever reason the summer after I began reading and have never stopped. I was one of those people who always had a book with them. Any spare moment I'd be reading. And I agree with your existential mention. That's exactly how I view life. We create ourselves by the choices we make. Every day, all day long. One thing you didn't mention, but might apply anyway, is stoicism. I'm enduring life, not enjoying it. Literature has given me so much. But not quite enough. I need some stoicism too.
But entirely seperate from all this, I suppose I have an engineering type mind. I believe completely in the scientific method. Literature gives meaning to life, scientific methods anchors me to it.
We might actually be friends if we knew each other in person.

>Any other English students come to feel this way
>English students
Only english students study literature.
Yes its true. No other country studies literature.

>>2619335

Sorry.

>>2619345
Cbf. reading the thread.

I both agree and disagree with your OP.
People i study with are pieces of shit who have no real life experience or value.
But I think the studies pay of, at least for me as I'll be teaching this stuff later. Reading books is great too, getting paid to read books is even better.
(In sweden we get cash to get educated, get with the times murrica.)

Postmodernism hater here...
Just want to mention I have to go to bed. Have enjoyed the disussion. Take care all.