Does anyone know of a bible that contains the English(Douay-Rheims), Latin(Clementine), and Greek?

I have in mind one of those multi-column affairs.

Genisis is actually a pretty good read.

>>125954
that's a tough one

I'm sure one's out there

My favorite version of the Bible is the New International Version, with the whole new translation involving like 50 different professors and masters in Aramaic, greek, latin, etc. that shit is well done

If the Bible were published in modern day, never seen before, no one would read it. Unless you are religious or a pretentious cock-licker, it's complete garbage.

>>126022
You take that back. The Bible is the cat's vagina.

>>126022
You're angry.

>>125999

The ancients knew best. I try to avoid modern translations.

>>125982
Genesis is smalltime compared to Revelation. Shit's fucking trippy.

>>125920
Problem is that from the time it was assembled, so few people really understand how to read it. The Pope doesn't even know, not has 99% of the other ones. Pope John Paul came the closest. When you get it, you're so unlike the Bible thumpers out there, that you're almost anathema to Church goers. Yet it frees you from a lot of shit. Can't take any of it on face value -- it's incredibly deeper than it's words.

Oh, wanted to add that you can't believe Revelation. It's pretty much an anti-Rome rant that should have been dropped about 5th Cent. AD

>>126081
Well the NIV version is literally going back to the oldest versions we have available with people who specialize in the languages they are written in, and translating them directly, with peer review to judge the closest possible translations available.

So, in a way, it is letting the ancients speak most perfectly for themselves

Hence why I like it

>>126175

The bible isn't limited to one truth at a time.

>>126220

You could do worse I suppose.

Reading the works in their original tongues is ideal of course.

>>126246
yeah but...I dont know aramaic, greek, latin or hebrew

But that is the ideal situation I agree

Way to know if you're following a good religion -- does it ask you to hurt or kill anyone? If yes, then you're not. They way to God isn't through blood or murder. If you're a Christian, you should know that Jesus's was the last to be spilled for everyone's soul, period.

Takes courage to reconcile the NT and the OT with the idea that perhaps God Himself, too is capable to change. Makes him easier to relate to and communicate with. And a lot of friendly and welcoming that OT portrayals.

That's where you are wrong. God has never changed, and He never will.

He is perfect. Something that is perfect cannot change.

>>126344

Nonsense.

which part are you protesting?

>>126518

-Killing for God is to be lauded
-God is incapable of change

>>126022
I agree. Hipsters love this shit.

>>126407
But perfection is a conception, subject to change as people change.

>>126567

God = perfection

Neither God nor perfection are "conceptions".

>>126595
Prove that they are.

>>126539
I don't see where anon is saying that killing is a good thing.

If God were capable of change, He wouldn't be perfect. God never lies, and never changes his plans.
The fact that He is omniscient means that he will never have to change. He will never have to adapt.

>>126595
If God=Perfection and perfection is a conception, God is a conception. Although not my own conception of perfection he is an amalgamation of several ancient nation's.

As much literary value as any antique piece of literature, i.e. not that much in itself, but still so influencial that it makes it a must-read for any one who hates to miss references in other books.

>>126344 Takes courage to reconcile the NT and the OT with the idea that perhaps God Himself, too is capable to change. Makes him easier to relate to and communicate with. And a lot of friendly and welcoming that OT portrayals.
I wouldn't say God Himself is capable of change. I think God is constant, and Good, it's just that our understanding of Him had changed and changed us for the better. In a way, I think the wrath of God in the old testament was because of us and that's all we would understand. Also, I guess you could say that as we understand God more, He doesn't need to be all wrathful.

And I'm not just saying this as a NT good, OT bad. Even in Judaism and other religions the more we learn of God, the better we become. I'm of course maybe simplifying things a bit much. You also can't ignore people that pervert God to serve their own hateful and violent means. If anything they are turning away from God while yelling His name.

>>126668

The Good is an absolute. Perfection is the ultimate good. How are these things notions?

Great lessons, very helpful in life.
Makes me very sad when people's interpretations lead them to take everything literally.

>>126664

Anything done for God is good, even killing.

One who kills for God must, of course, be free of all things worldly. I have here in mind something akin to the Hindu doctrine of detached violence.

I find it to be a great work of ancient fiction.

>>126668
We're speaking about the God of the Bible, not god in general.

>>126624
Asking for proof is like asking to see when you are blind. Even if you are given proof, you wont understand it.
Besides, faith is up to the individual. A persons beliefs aren't based on tangible proof, as perceived by the outside world. Its about their relationship with their Deity.

I can share with you what causes me to believe, but I cannot make you believe.

>>126083

Try Isaiah. Or Ezekiel.

>>126697
Those notions exist only within the mind of the individual which may or may not exist within the mind of a society.

>>126789

They have an independent existence. Their ontological status is not determined by people. If every single human died, these things would still persist unchanged.

>>126767
>Even if you are given proof, you wont understand it.
Oh, you.

>>126687
Well put.

>>126737
Anything done as a direct order from God perhaps, but far too many humans do things in the name of God which cannot be called good at all.

>>126745
Interesting name choice. lol

There is certainly fiction in the Bible, sir. But It also holds many truths, both historical and moral.

>>126767
I love that answer.

Many problems people have with the Bible is they don't study it with assistance. It was written by hebrews for hebrews and there have been errors that found their way into the text over the centuries. That doesn't mean it's wrong, that just means you need to study, ponder, and pray over its meaning. By staying close to God we can learn from the bible otherwise we're bound to flounder.

Ecclesiastes is literally the only book in the bible worth the paper it's printed on.

>>126858
That is rather correct I must say. For example, if God himself were to appear tonight in your room would you believe in God or would you say you had a hallucination? So why would God want to appear to someone if they merely believed it wasn't real? God has other ways of helping people believe than the concrete evidence too many people want.

One scripture that comes to mind is when God speaks to Elijah, not in the thunderings of the storm, not in the lightning, or in the fire, but in a still small voice.

>>126895
Very true. It can be so difficult sometimes. Especially when your low on trust. But I know I'm not alone. :)

>>126918
It is a great one. Full of sturdy morals and cornerstone values. Have you read the rest of it? Can you say this in all honesty? You might be surprised if you actually give the other books a chance. To each their own, though.

>>126960
I'd believe it. I'm going to be in an hour. I'll be expecting my visitation from god.

And you better pray for it.

you retards DO know the christianity isn't real....RIGHT????

>>127012
Do you know how to recognize the still small voice as described because that's how God's gonna answer you.

>>126767
is right, you probably won't understand it.

>>126960
bravo.

>>127014
according to you perhaps.
Maybe you should consider the fact that just because something isn't important to you doesn't mean its not important to someone else.
Try being a little more considerate.

Sorry OP, this is a literature forum; GTFO.

>>126918
Not sure how I feel about this, but I'll agree that Ecclesiastes is far and away my favourite.

>>127014
Leave, man. We're not here to argue which religion is right, we are here to discuss literature. And the Bible simply happens be literature.

>>127014
You do realize that if everyone who purchased some form of 'I'm with CoCo' merchandise actually watched the Tonight Show that your hack comedian wouldn't have gotten canceled, right?

>>127014
Religion is very real. What it's about however, is not.

>>127014 you retards DO know the reality isn't real....RIGHT????
fix'd

>>127067
I'm gonna hold out for a burning bush or a giant posterior floating in the air.

>>127094
matrix'd

>>126767
Quite honestly, I can say the same to you about logic and reason.

There is no proof of God's existence. If one could prove it, that proof would be explained in fucking elementary school. But no such proof exists.

That being said, no proof of his non-existence exists either. But there is also no proof that there is a dragon in my garage. But I would be thought mad for thinking there was. So I stand by this statement: Until proof of God's existence is made, and it doesn't even have to be absolute proof but just beyond reasonable doubt, I will not believe. It's as simple as that.

>>127238
Hey, to each their own. I hope you find happiness.
Maybe you will find that proof.

>>127082
The problem is this stopped being a discussion of the bible-as-literature a long time ago.

>>127399

Gospel of John ftw. Make sure you get a copy with full apocrypha - Bel and the Dragon can't be missed.

>>127238
"Proof" of God's existence as done by Aquinas and others.

1. Objects exist.
2. All objects have a cause.
3. The totality of objects is an object.
4. The totality of objects has a cause.
5. The cause of the totality of objects is not an object.
6. The cause of the totality of object is a transcendental being (a.k.a God).
7. God exists.

Theologians always try and answer the hard questions. They don't do too well at it.

>>127422

whoops. he's right y'all.
Overall, It was a success though. I mean, we didnt start a war. lol

>>127437
lolnewton
Take it to >>>/sci/
We'd love to rip that shit up.

>>127437

I've never had access to a copy of the apocrypha. From what I understand it isn't canon. What say you?

>>127437
Yes, and this logic has its obvious flaws.
1. Christians often use it to prove that their God exists, but if anything it only says that something created the universe, and that something is their God. Why? Why can't it be something else? Or a Hindu God? Or, fuck, anything else for that matter?
2. It essentially contradicts itself in saying that "all things require a cause," but then say that God is clearly different and needs no cause. But there is no reason to support this claim. Why doesn't God need a cause to exist? And rather, things don't have a "cause" to exist. They already existed. They merely change from one form or another.
3. Why do we assume objects need a cause to exist? We see a watch and assume their is a watchmaker, true, as the analogy goes, but a watch is not a world. We see how worlds form on their own. A watch is designed because we design them. Worlds form because physics define particle movement. Why not assume, then, that worlds merely always were and always will be? Because we cannot understand the concept of infinity? I think the universe cares little for what we cannot comprehend.

So, yes, a poor job indeed.

God is not rational on earthly terms never will be. God is a metaphysical being that makes up the whole universe, your attempt to understand this being with human science is pathetic and futile.

So how do we know he exists? We don't, just like you don't know he doesn't. Nobody except idiots claims otherwise.
Now, an atheists attempt to disprove god with science is a futile, stupid, and pointless endeavor. Nobody tries too(except idiots) and nobody will. God is a being beyond our comprehension and understanding, most religions agree on that much. So you idiots trying to put this thing on the level of something like biology is just pointless.

It always makes me laugh when you idiots try to talk about the bible, because it is painfully obvious none of you have read it all the way through and just googled something like "bible contradictions" and used it as proof of your viewpoint. In reality it is an extremely complex book, written over centuries by dozens of different people, and translated in so many different ways the meaning of certain phrases in each addition can be completley different then the meaning in another.

My point, you can not generalize the message of a book as complex as this as violent or peaceful. It is neither. There is no monolithic interpretation of it and if you think there is you are an idiot.

>>127823
>I didn't read the thread, but I'll comment on it anyways!
Cool, bro.

>>127868

I skimmed it.

>>127705
>Now, an atheists attempt to disprove god with science is a futile, stupid, and pointless endeavor.

No.
You can't prove a negative. An atheist merely states that there's no proof that God exists, therefore, there is no reason to believe he does. Anyone who claims otherwise is just being rebellious and/or edgy.

Gospel of Thomas is the shit

>>127705

cool story bro

>>127913

It comes down to perspective, you are looking for proof in the wrong place, other people see the proof all around them. As I already typed, you are using human understanding of the universe(something severely limited) in an attempt to understand an entity completley beyond our comprehension and understanding.

You can not hope to prove or disprove god using science, proof of gods existence comes from someplace else entirely.

You need to see something to believe it. Others understand expecting to see god is stupid, you can not see something that is the size of the universe and beyond with your narrow vision.
As for theists being rebellious or edgy, dear god that is ironic.
Anyway, satisfactorily prove to me that this being does not exists? I look around at the world ans see a very complex place which appears to operate in a finely tuned logic all its own. You see a random series of events guided by chemical reactions.

Turn me over to your side, go right ahead.

The bible itself tells you how to get proof of the existence of God, "Ask and ye shall receive, knock and it shall be open unto you." God himself can prove he exists.

>>128084

Ignore the typos in this.

>>128111

Just as one sees the sun by its light.

>>128111
I asked and then I got some guys in suits and ties knocking on my door.

Not what I was looking for, bro.

>>128166

Do not be lead astray, Mormons are the minions of Satan.

>>128111
>>128154

for fuck's sake. i've heard better from a lobotomized cabbage.

>>128586

Truth is truth, be it from a cabbage or from a book.

>>128605
Except when that truth, y'know, isn't.

God doesn't exist. Sorry guys.

>>128919

Define God.

>>128761


Truth isn't what?

>>128981

A concept of supernatural omnipotence and overall benevolence which is uniform to every member of humanity. This concept may be valid or invalid, no firm conclusion either way has ever been proven with certainty.

>>129038

So by that very definition, God is neither proven nor disproven to exist.

say you aren't an agnostifag like me are you?

>>128084

*sigh*

Another home schooled christian.

First, human understanding is not severely limited. You would know this if your parents let you read a high school level biology textbook.
And if our understanding is as limited as you say....and god as infinitely complicated as you say....then how does a limited being know a
complicated being is complicated. After all our limited understanding would not let us know anything complicated that is beyond it. Looks like a
pretty bad contradiction you got yourself into. The bible has a bad habit of making people do that.

That is really nice, you looking around. That will really help to understand the world around us. You've been alive, what? sixteen years? Yeah,
it takes about 4.5 billion to let a pussy like you to "look around".

>>129038

Truth and reality are one and the same.
Certain things are real. Do you deny this?

truthfully some parts are great (Song of Songs, great erotic poetry) but over all, you could take out 90% of the bible and realize the truths on your own. Also, anyone ever get the feeling of how different Christianity would have been had Paul gotten laid?

>>129069

>>how does a limited being know a complicated being

-God is absolutely simple.
-Deification is possible. One knows god by becoming god-like.

Man is not limited. God is not complicated.

>>129065

Nope. I am very much a theist, and a christfag to boot. But I want to look at the underpinning of God as strictly a concept that every individual has to figure out for themselves.

To this end I left church vowing not to return to services until the Christian church as a whole reforms enough to accept homosexuals, accept evolution, reject political obfuscation of the faith, and have a more tolerant opinion of the pro-choice viewpoint on abortion.

The current Bible is a fanfic, edited to shit by many parties throughout the years.

We at /lit/ do not want fanfics here. Good day to you sir.

>>129095

You are right, man is not limited and god is not complicated.

God is false man made concept. Move on.

>>129074

What is True and what is real are not one in the same. We accept that which is true based upon our interactions with that which is real. Real is the reality. True is the correct interpretation of it.

The bible better be on that /lit/ reading club list
honestly it's a nice doorstopper if you aren't a christfag

>>129104

Ah, very nice, an Individuist, truth be told I'm more of a Post-Copernican Theologist/Humanist/Buddhist (as in the original sayings of Buddha)

truthfully I view the question of whether or not God/gods/the tao exist to be inconsequential to actually moving towards a better understanding of the self and my fellow man.

>>129104
Then why are you a christfag? Your holy book(s), depending on which parts you deny, are thoroughly against the first two.

OT says to kill homos.
Genesis places the earth's age at around 6000 years, St. (was he a saint) Usher researched that. Evolution necessitates billions of years.

>>129123

All things which exist are true. All things that are true exist. We are dealing with a synonym here.

>>True is the correct interpretation of it.

Mathematical truths are true before being discovered.

>>129148

Hence, prior to interpretation.

>>129140

Actually it places the age of civilized man at about 6000 years, which if we take into consideration about 18-25 years, is pretty damn close to the oldest cities.

the "Bible" puts no age on the Earth or human beings

It's an extrapolation based on Biblical lineages, that's it. It's fundamentally flawed logic

6000 year old Earthers are just reading it too literally

>>129140

Well first, what is the bible? OK? It's been a collection of works from hundreds of different sources throughout a period of time that may be up to 3000 years! But a bunch of wiseguys got together at a place called Nicea to staple them all together so it would make a better bludgeoning tool. Throughout time there have been countless reforms and additions and changes to the law which, even if it is Divinely inspired, is humanly written, and therefore fallible.

Is it really so bad for one man to take his personal faith with a grain of salt?

>>129199

Yes it is.

>>129199

Hence why I believe in something more than man, but view it's worship as inconsequential.

>>129104
To this end I left church vowing not to return to services until the Christian church as a whole reforms enough to accept homosexuals, accept evolution, reject political obfuscation of the faith, and have a more tolerant opinion of the pro-choice viewpoint on abortion.

>Homosexuals aren't rejected from churches. Love the sinner, because we're all sinners. I have many gay and lesbian friends and I get along with them just fine and I don't find them disgusting. I genuinely love them.

>Evolutionary framework just doesn't fit Biblical understanding well. It doesn't negate it, either. This is more of a "you're on your own" belief structure. You either believe it to be so or you don't. I don't, but it doesn't mean I believe in creationism either.

>Politics go hand in hand with The Bible. I personally believe it's very hard to not be a socialist if you're a follower of Christ.

>This is nonsense. If you believe we were all created solely by God, then the idea of killing a child of God is ridiculous. Doubled by the fact that said child has no say in the matter. It's better to be born, suffer, and decide for yourself whether to continue living than to never exist to begin with.

>>129214

Says who? God? I know god is all about serious business, but if he feels my interpretation of him is incorrect he is free to instruct me at any time.

I won't be hardcore on infallible scripture. I'm not looking for a Christian church that will judge others based on what is in the bible. I'm looking for a Christian church that will love others DESPITE what is in the Bible.

he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

>>129237

there is no "the Christian church"

>>129237

Why not just become a Unitarian?

>>129298
The Catholic Church of Rome and Churches in direct equivalence of communion are the Christian Church.

>>129283

There's more than one path to the top, but to get up there, you have to stick to a single road. Going back and forth between paths is a waste of time. Trying to make your own path is folly.

Religions work. The saints prove it. Why reinvent the wheel? Because you don't agree with everything in a religion? Because you don't agree, you assume that they are in the wrong? Have you no humility? Can't you accept that certain things are beyond you, and that everything will make sense in time?

>>129314

They're the largest, but despite the definition of "Catholic", they do not speak for all Christians.

>>129237
UUism is for you.

>>129298
"The Christian Church" is any place where a group of Christians are gathered. That's as defined by the Book Of Acts. Personally, my favorite church is at my friend's house. We get together to discuss theology, drink, and smoke hookah. It's a lot of fun without any of the pretension of what's usually considered "church".

>>129311
Because I believe in the great I Am, and in Christ. It's not that hard a concept to follow.

>>129330

Or maybe the person is following the path of all holy men, including the most lauded of the saints.

>>129298

OK. I'm willing to accept A Christian church.

Oh good I don't have to make a new thread. I'm looking to get a good Christian Bible, I know the king james have terrible translation. So are they any New Testament Bible that have a proper translation?

>>129357

Saints work within traditions.

Prophets make their own paths, but this man cannot be a prophet. The age of prophets is over.

>>129381

IIRC NIV is pretty good.

>>129381
I always recommend the New International Version. I think it's the best overall bible out there. It's got great readability, it's quite annotated so you can find out what specific words mean in Hebrew, and it's closer to the Hebrew and Greek texts in intent. It's a great bible to read and study from. It's not as eloquent as JKV, but it's very good.

So, this is how trolling /lit/ is going to be?
Well, we're of to a bright future

>>129423
I don't see how a thread discussing the central text of the Western world is trolling, exactly.

>>129391

Only if you follow the Abrahamic faiths...

and even then Judaism is still awaiting the Meshiach, Christianity the Paraclete, and Islam the Mahdi.

The age of prophets is FAR from over, and I said holy men, not prophets.

>>126022
Read the Psalms.

Fuck yeah poetry.

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

I know in my heart of hearts, that one day they will find the gene that makes people susceptible to bullshit ie religion. And I will never have to see a thread full of idiots like this again.

>>129474

Said very specifically to the church in that area due to many turning their men from orthodoxy or even back to paganism.

>>129474
Out of context. It also says to love your women like you love God.

>>129439

What kinds of holy men work outside established religions?

The prophets you mention are eschatological figures if I'm not mistaken. These are the exception to the rule, so to speak.

>>129439

The Mahdi AND Jesus at the same time. Slam pow!

>>129489

it's the same gene that also involves emotion, so yeah. DO NOT WANT!

>>129438
You're right, I actually hadn't read the thread.
It's just, it's a thread, about the bible, on 4chan...
Guess i'm just too used to trollbaiting

>>129489

And the scientist who discovers it will be assassinated.

>>129499

Jesus of Nazareth operated outside all established religions.

>>129489
after that they can get rid of the racist gene.

>>129499

lets see, Siddhartha Guatama did, Lao Tzu, Cao Dai, in truth The Bab and Baha'ullah, most of the post vedic writers of Hindu philosophy, Guru Nanak, do I need to go on?

>>129489
>I know in my heart of hearts, that one day they will find the gene that makes people susceptible to bullshit ie religion. And I will never have to see a thread full of idiots like this again.

There's more "religious" people in this world than atheists. Even then, a lot of atheists are afraid of the idea of God, and find ways to cut him out due to this fear. There's been very few atheists that I've talked to and gotten to know that genuinely don't believe in a deity due to "facts". Most of them admit that religion has played an important role in the tale of humanity and it still very much needed.

>>129534

Yes, but as I said, that age is passed.

>>129534

Unsupportable story, bro.

>>129474
A masterwork of misogyny.

>>129499

L

RON

HUBBARD

>>129570

It's all there right in the beginning. Eve and the Tree of Knowledge? All of Mankind's suffering can be traced back to the arrogance and disobedience of a woman.

>>129550
> Most of them admit that religion has played an important role in the tale of humanity

Reasonable... people have done a lot of crazy things because of religion, possibly not all of them bad.

> and it still very much needed.

But there's a far-fetched conclusion.

>>129565
Considering it's literally in almost everything he says, good luck trying to find the evidence for him following the old order. I'm sure that's what he was doing when he swore at moneychangers, did work on the Sabbath, and generally pissed off the Pharisees.

>>129590
>Reasonable... people have done a lot of crazy things because of religion, most of them not bad.

Fix'd.

As far as religion today? Just because the rich "religious" elite are the most shown in the media does not mean they prevail. There's still plenty of sacrifice and decency out there. Next time you go to a protest involving human rights issues, check to see how many people of faith there are. It'll surprise you.

>>129551

if so then really just bearly in the whole scheme of humanity (Baha'ullah was mid-1800's) and if we're going modern, Deepak Chopra to a certain extent, Gurdjieff, and many an occultist in the western mystery tradition that isn't just following the Golden Dawn or Thelema.

>>129584
>It's all there right in the beginning. Eve and the Tree of Knowledge? All of Mankind's suffering can be traced back to the arrogance and disobedience of a woman.

Uh, Adam watched her break a promise to God and didn't do a damn thing. He's just as guilty.

>>129655
And you have to wonder if when it happend, God was going...

Just as planned.

>>129237

The previous pope believed in evolution, I am pretty sure the current one does too.

There are christian denominations that don't give a fuck about gay people, as well as openly gay pastors.
Being christian does not mean you are pro-life. Although meaningless sex in general is frowned upon, as well as abortion. But everybody should frown on abortion at least a little, it shouldn't be something to take lightly.

>>129655
The point is that women _bear_ the guilt of reproduction, and men merely _take part_ in the sin.

If you want to abolish all sin, abolish all children. I think the Cathars attempted that after following the above gnostic reasoning.

Also, and as a result, only women are capable of saintliness as only they truly have a sin born to overcome.

>>129703

Of course he believes in evolution, after all the Nazis did.

>>129707

Actually the Cathars did it by not having sex... or at least normal sex.

and the reasoning was it was a bad idea to bring anything into this world created by the Demiurge, which was the god of the OT, as opposed to the very distant God of Gnosticism.

>>129637
> Fix'd.

A religionist would think that.

> As far as religion today? Just because the rich "religious" elite are the most shown in the media does not mean they prevail. There's still plenty of sacrifice and decency out there. Next time you go to a protest involving human rights issues, check to see how many people of faith there are. It'll surprise you.

Because any time a person does something good, it's because they're religious, amirite? This is why athiests are all psychopaths.

>>129741

God is the author of all good.

If Adam and Eve's children have to fuck each other to populate the earth? Wouldn't they eventually get all sickly within a generation or two and probably die out?

>>129741

No but you guys, just like Christians need to choose your reps a little more carefully.

>>129688
This is a heavy theological debate. I actually agree with you. There's no way for us to have free will without eating of the fruit. Without free will, it is impossible to love God. It must be a choice you can either accept or deny, for that's what love is.

>>129762

Why does love have to be voluntary? Why can't all of humanity develop a Stockholm syndrome for God?

>>129756
Atheists do not choose reps. There is no "we". There is no organization.

>>129762

And they seem to assume that all Christians are Fundamentalists who believe the bible is to be interpreted as literally as possible, even though it's 90% symbolism.

>>129754
God, not religion. It's not necessary to be religious to have one's good acts come from God.

>>129756
What?

>>129069

First of all, I am not a christian. Non-denominational here.
Second, I was not home schooled.
Third, my parents are far, far, from religious and in fact openly insult religious authorities. The only reason my parents put Catholic on the census forms was because they considered it part of our culture, and it is in a weird way.

Do you need to know everything about nuclear physics to know that nuclear physics is complicated? No, you don't. You tie god to religion, this is stupid. Religion is mankind's attempt to understand god. One of the similarities between them all though is that god is an omnipotent, universal, entity. In other words, the entire universe is god. Go read the bavadad gita, it explains it pretty well. God exists in everything.

So really all you have done is use ad hominem and say "I am right, you are wrong, HAHAHA!".

Good troll or stupid argument.


I'm 23 also, you idiot.

>>129793
> Implying that's not exactly what has happened.

>>129794

Meant more in a both sides need to tell their extremists to STFU and let people actually live how they wish if they're not doing harm to another person.

Christianity and Judaism were introduced in a period of great hedonism; The two religions introduced moral and ethical rules to humanity, so that we can feel guilt about "sinning" and hurting our fellow man.

In it's time, the Bible was a very, very good thing. Most Anti-Theists I've met today say that they are against homosexuals and equal rights and yadda yadda yadda, but that's because they're conservatives that want to preserve the sacred rules of their religion, that are outdated for our times. All you have to know is, they're not doing it out of hate, they're doing it out of love. They are discriminating and being sticks-in-the-mud because they believe it's for the greater good, so that we may all be saved.

TL;DR, Religious people have what's best for us in their minds, but are approaching it at a completely different angle.

Calvin Here.
Freewill is small time.

>>129798

>>God, not religion. It's not necessary to be religious to have one's good acts come from God.

This is correct. That's not to say that religion is unnecessary though. Religion done right permeates one's life and acts like a sort of framework for virtue.

Both sides need to quit shoving their shit into people's throats. We just need to enjoy life and take it easy.

I'm just gonna skip reading this thread and say

The Old Testament is mostly made up, symbolism, metaphors, "bedtime stories" etc...

The New Testament is a great Philosophical work, and although I am not entirely Christan, I believe in being Christ-like.

>>129798

Dawkins, and those guys.

A little something I've been thinking about....
Any comments?

God created the world out of nothing.
God is nothing (apophatic theology).

Nothing out of nothing, or God created the world out of himself.

>>129823 let people actually live how they wish if they're not doing harm to another person.

Well that there is the issue, isn't it? Atheists damning their children to hellfire, and Christians passing on this horrific belief system.

>>129849

thank you, that's what I meant by the reps argument.

>>129550

Very few atheist don't accept god not because of lack of facts......dude either you don't talk to atheist or you are not a very sociable person.

Religion is a nightlight. It served its purpose culturally about 500 years ago. Time to grow up.

>>129876

or you know Atheists using it as a badge of I'm superior with Christians doing the same, quit mentally masturbating and be good people already.

>>129848 Religion done right permeates one's life and acts like a sort of framework for virtue.

That would be nice, wouldn't it? Shame religion in practice permeates one's life, acting as a framework for misunderstanding and hate, and an endless source of guilt over “sins”.

The ONLY atheist who admits to doing terrible things was Ayn Rand.

But we already know she's off the deep end.

>>129905

Religion is political in the true sense of the word. It strengthens social bonds and acts as a cohesive force bringing unity and goodness to a nation.

It's not something you can outgrow.

Ok in order to have a logical debate on the god question, we first have to define God, since being a metaphysical concept, Deity is impossible to prove empirically.

>>129930

Like any ideology.

what we need to get rid of is the ideology gene.

>>129930

Guilt is a good thing. People should feel bad when they sin.

>>129947
Oh wow.

>>129930

Politicians are stupid. Politics should be abolished!

Are you anarchist?

>>129948
that's not true. you can still discuss a metaphysical concept logically outside the framework of empiricism.

Evil did it.

>>129996

did what?

>>129981
You're making the mistake of treating politicians as a class of people apart from the rest of us. Anyone is a potential politician. However, we have a severe media-fueled image addiction. If politicians were not presented via debates (which are really about who can look more appealing) and other appearances, and if the media could be induced to deal less with image and more with issues, a different sort of politician could be successful.

Unless that was an exceedingly clever way for you to say that religion selects for people prone to xenophobia and irrational guilt, you're making a bad comparison.

Great religion.
Pretty cryptic book.
Not necessarily a reflection of what Christians believe.

>>129997

God is the creator of the devil.

>>130090
and your point is...?

>>130090

That would make it polytheistic.

>>129963
There's no such thing as sin.

>>129997

Thank you.

Now that we have that down, how do we define evil?

>>130016

the major basis for the Epicurean argument against (at the time) The Prime Force of certain Greek philosophers.

*DEEP BREATH*
And to A was born B, by 1. To B, sons C and D were born with 2 and E birthed by their housekeeper 3.....
and then Z had many children with 119, 120 and 130.

>>130112

Evil is deprivation. It is a lack of good.

>>125916
Stop spamming and harassing www. anon
talk
.com

>>130141

people usually skip over those parts... much like you skip over the overly long padding descriptions in LotR.

>>129930

If we never felt guilty for the bad things we do, we would do bad more often, no?

>>130141

And they were all deformed, sickly and suffered from epilepsy. Upon their death, God then saw the error of his ways and invented the process of evolution, and set forth to create self-replicating DNA strands in the volcanic rifts of the ocean floor.

>>130154 you skip over the overly long padding descriptions in LotR.

Heresy!

>>130144

ok, now define good.

never every try to debate logically with me, I will ask for definitions of anything remotely abstract.

A better definition would be suffering, but even then, that would mean that God was allowing it to allow a masochist pleasure.

How can anyone believe this garbage, really...It's the best-selling and fiction ever written that the church somehow continues to use as proof of christ's power. The worst part is, people still believe this is credible proof.

>>130181

Good is nothing other than God.

God created the big bang and then he did nothing. He is neither good nor evil, and does not care for the mere reflex machines that wallow on his tiniest of atmosphere-coated marbles.

>>130193

eh the Pali Canon is better.

pretty much set me out on being an Apatheist.


i.e. the question of divinity does not matter.

>>130193

>>130205

Post-Copernican theology at its finest, God created and got the fuck out... you all know what this means.

God is black

>>130212

Wow. Someone who didn't miss the point.

Most people seem to think that the Buddha is arguing against the existence of god in the pali cannon for some reason.

>>130232

Or maybe he's a Spanish flea who's be leaving universes all over the damn place :P

>>130169
Guilt doesn't have anything to do with doing bad things.

>>130263

Sometimes people feel guilty after doing good things?

>>130239

Thank you.

Reason I don't identify as any of the three schools of buddhism, while I do believe in something greater than humanity, it does not matter since it would be at such a universal level that humanity is nothing more than some bacterium on a tiny stone to it, therefore worship of it or even debating its existence is really just mental masturbation.

>>130277
I'd wager that's happened. You could picture a Christian feeling guilty after sexing someone up, couldn't you?

>>130244

M-Theory... the Theological explication.

Does not rationalization and self-awareness propel humanity beyond the realm of "mere life"?

>>130295

Sex can be both good or bad.
You example lacks details.

In Christianity sex is always bad and is only tolerated to produce children.

>>130341

In other words, sex can be both good or bad.

>>130312

not really in the grand scheme of things... to really get a picture of it... think about the vastness of the universe, now think about how small the milky way is compared to that, no g to the system of Sol, then to Terra, then to local continent, then to... you get the idea, we are nothing at all to anything.

>>130313
You just want me to describe a sex scene, don't you?

It was good sex; the best. The guilt-feeling person's partner had all the right buttons pushed and none of the wrong ones, everybody called everybody else by the correct name, even in the heat of the moment, and it went much the same for the guilt-feeling person. But because these two people weren't married or were of the same gender or did it anally, the Christian feels guilty.

>>130312

Only if God is vain.

>>130399

sure... in what are we now, 1650?

most tend to ignore Paul.

Not all Christians are Fundamentalists, just like not all atheists are assholes with book deals.

>>130399

That sir, is because it was wrong.

>>130399

Even if they're married, without contraceptives, under the covers and with the lights off, they'll feel guilty.

>>130449
You seem to have gotten lost. This is what we're talking about:

>>130277 Sometimes people feel guilty after doing good things?

And the answer is yes.

>>130491

Ah, might use a better example like, killing in self defense, makes you sound like you're not just strawmanning.

I have existed from the morning of the world and I shall exist until the last star falls from the night. Although I have taken the form of Gaius Caligula, I am all men as I am no man and therefore I am a God.

>>130491

Guilt is usually a pretty good indicator when it comes to right or wrong, but I'd be willing to concede that ignorance can lead someone astray.

As literature, the Bible is so terribly disjointed and its stories are simplistic to a fault. It's a pretty bad read.

>>130554

Only if you try to read it as a whole for soem books and not realize most of it is a bunch of short stories.

>>130511
This is the core of my argument. Guilt has nothing to do with doing bad things, as I have demonstrated with this example of a good thing that a (sick) person might nevertheless feel guilty about. I don't see how you could think it has anything to do with straw men, since it's my goddamn argument, unless you have no idea what the term means.

>>129401
>>129416
any specific Publisher?

>>130567

Partly because as pointed out aside from a few extreme fundamentalists, this idea has gone the way of the dodo, something like killing in self defense or even defense of others would be a better example since, you know it doesn't rely on something that truthfully changes with the times.

>>130533 Guilt is usually a pretty good indicator when it comes to right or wrong
Purely because there are plenty of rules that prohibit doing bad things. There are also plenty of rules that prohibit or require things for no reason at all (especially in religion), and I'd wager there are plenty of bad actions whose practitioners wouldn't feel at all guilty. Guilt is an absolutely terrible measure of the inherent goodness of an action.

>>130516

If only all Rome had just one neck!

>>130601 a few extreme fundamentalists

What's your argument here? That these people don't exist? There are probably more of them than you think. That they aren't people?

There is no event in history prior to the printing press, that is more documented more than the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ. Along with the miracles he performed there is historical proof that he existed, he performed miracles, he was crucified, and was resurrected. In the immortal words of Paul "These things were not done in a corner".

To deny that Christ was exactly what he said he was is to foolishly deny history.

>>130562

Even as short stories, the writing is very choppy and intentionally written so that each line can be referenced.

>>130682
Come on now, bro.
There is absolutely no proof he was resurrected (as, y'know, it's impossible), and the physical proof of his existence is rather limited.

>>130713
How many people witnessed the resurrected Christ eh? Try denying that again.

>>130785

Hahaha, oh wow.
So some people, two thousand years ago, claimed they saw Christ after he had died.
Very valid proof you have there, kid.

I just saw The Virgin Mary in my toast this morning. So did my roommate.

>>130830
Lame sauce. My entire rural hometown just had Jesus lead us in Prayer, Shit was so cash.

Protip: The resurrection of Christ was added in centuries later by people who never met him or his disciples.

The Bible is about as reliable a canon as the Star Wars Extended Universe.

>>130841
FAIL.
I'm in Norway right now, and Ragnarok just happened. Me and everyone in Scandinavia just saw Thor kick some ass, and then everything exploded.

>>130841
How did you establish his identity?

>>130785

I saw your mom turning tricks. So did other people. Must be true.

>>130841
He turned the Popo Agie into Wine, dipshit. And then he walked on a Newtonian fluid. AND he was wearing sandals. In Wyoming. IN WINTER.

>>130830
How many people died for what they believed taking with them to their grave the knowledge that the Virgin Mary was in your toast this morning?

You already disbelieve the resurrection of Christ, NOTHING will convince you otherwise even if you were there to see it yourself because you've already denied its possibility. The fact remains that he performed miracles and was resurrected.

By your claim Caesar didn't exist because there's more historical proof for the miracles of Jesus than the existence of Caesar.

>>130852
>The Bible is about as reliable a canon as the Star Wars Extended Universe.

lol

>>130887 NOTHING will convince you otherwise even if you were there to see it yourself because you've already denied its possibility.

This is what religionists actually believe. I guess it's pretty hard to put yourself in a rational persons shoes when your beliefs are based on... what makes you happy? Nothing at all?

>>130887
This was pretty hilarious. The only supporting evidence for the events of the Bible actually taking place is the Qu'ran. And the Bible.

>>130887
Oh my.

You're a lost cause.