Still gotta find a copy to read, but I like the concept and I would put it in any /polgbt/ required reading list.

As a masculine bifag - this sounds like silly he-man fem hater horseshit.
Reeks of overcompensation.

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>>947464
>Someone on /lgbt/ doesn't like Androphilia

I would like if more people felt this way. I'm gay, but I'm intentionally celibate because I despise the community so much that the idea of going to some LGBT watering hole like a club or a rally makes me want to vomit.

I despise every single thing that LGBT culture tends to support, but most gay people either get sucked into that hivemind of liberal bullshit or they stay firmly in the closet so there's not exactly a lot of gay men that I can go hunting with or hang out at a shooting range with.

It would be great if a subculture of masculine and conservative gay men started to develop.

>>947523

Exactly, almost every gay dude in my high school was a dramafag or bandfag or some other prissy shemale banshee. It's disgusting and embarrassing.

>>947421 (OP)

Based on what I've heard, he sounds like a bit of a misogynistic ass sometimes, but I think the concept he's trying to get at is good and more awareness of it should be raised.

>>947421 (OP)
Loads of gay men are like this.

The ones I know, anyway, in the UK, in my university.

Haven't read the book, but I agree with his sentiment. I don't feel anymore attachment to a gay culture than I do to a brunette culture.

>>947523
>Conservative gay
Like that guy who commanded the SA?

>>947464

>Reeks of overcompensation.

I think it may sound like overcompensation because western men have been becoming increasingly less masculine for decades and it's getting to the point that the entire concept of masculinity is starting to feel foreign to a lot of people.

Just look at the average straight man in western European countries or compare a masculine, straight man that lives in a very conservative and rural area of the U.S to a straight and self-proclaimed masculine man that lives in Portland or San Francisco. It's a night and day difference.

What's perceived as a masculine man today is generally men that live pretty sedentary lifestyles, have likely never fired a gun once in their entire life, have never done any sort of difficult physical labor, and are completely neutral and apathetic on issues like radical feminism and other very liberal ideas that men from older generations would have been adamantly against.

So it's not really overcompensation, it's just unfamiliar because even straight men are acting like they're castrated.

>>947807

Pretty much everything this guy said. Look at how nonviolent football and NASCAR have become. Look at how professional wrestling has fallen into obscurity, and the remaining promotions are watered down with older ECW-style deathmatches ridiculed. Men are being feminized.

>>947464
>not being a silly he-man fem hater

get a load of this goy

>>947464
It's a shame that the masculine bisexuals have vaginas

It's all about confirmation bias. The attention whoring drama queen faggots are by far the most noticeable gay people. It's not like straightfags think much about the sexuality of people they consider normal - so if they act like a normal human being, they assume that they're straight.

So it's likely that the average straight man passes several normal gay men every day, sees one effeminate queen and thus assumes that all gays are like that.

Gay Insecurity and Hellenic Fetishization: The Book

>>947421 (OP)
Why did you post this? Ever time someone brings up this book Crystal Princess comes in and bitches at everyone.

>>947871
LOOK AT UFC YOU STUPID FUCK.

I WILL PUT YOU IN AN ARMBAR AND BREAK THE PUSSY OUT OF YOU, YOU CHUBBY FAGGOT.

>>947871
Yes, because all of our contact sports should be dangerously lethal blood sports, and the changes within corporate-sponsored melodramatic fake-fighting are indicative of societal feminization.

Dante, just shut the fuck up.

>>947992

Because she won't be in the same thread as me. You're welcome.

>>947999

>no chairs, Singapore canes, ladders, or tables
>fighters are all muscled up monsters with no interesting personalities worth noting

It's boring. I mean at least boxing had interesting individuals with colorful personalities back in it's heyday. It doesn't give me a reason to care other than "IT'S REAL LOL."

>>947952
But why condemn queens for the ignorance of others? Many of them are just... like that. And apparently enough guys find it attractive.

>>948030

I'm just saying, get bloody and get brutal. Why are we so scared of a fight? Look at hockey, where any attempt to cut down on fighting has failed miserably. It still has devoted fans and is fairly profitable. Why are other sports so scared of what hockey embraces?

>>948038
>>no chairs, Singapore canes, ladders, or tables
You fucking idiot. It's safety concerns and corporate lawsuits that did this.

>fighters are all muscled up monsters with no interesting personalities worth noting
>complaining about muscles and bad acting in wrestling
>2013

Dante. Shut. The fuck. Up.

>>948069
>Why are we so scared of a fight?
Lawsuits moron. Grow the fuck up and stop taking your cues from teen anarchist shit like Fight Club.

Although I would gladly kick your fat ass in the mouth if given the chance.

Oh look it's this thread again.

Why do I even bother.

>>948094
I don't even know why you still post on this website. Can't you fuck off to tumblr?

>>948094
I don't know, why do you?

>>948094

Tell us your opinions about the book

>>948072
>>948089

>Lawsuits
>Suing because you were injured in a sport you consented to participated in

Don't we have waivers for this shit? It can't be that hard to prevent yourself from being sued.

>>948104
>>948116
Moot created the /lgbt/ board to support the LGBT movement, not let you /pol/ invaders come and post pseudo-gay Jack Donovan's misogynistic, homophobic propaganda.

I wish that /lgbt/ sticky is still there, because this board is for, and I quote, 'respectful discussion' of LGBT issues only. You trolls should just go back to /pol/.

>>948122
Nothing but trite. Donovan is a self-hating gay who wants other gays to hate themselves just like him. The argument that 'gay men can be muscular too!' is just braindead. Gay men have gone so far to get acceptance and tolerance by showing their Pride, and now this young Donovan struts along and says that 'lol what a bunch of fags'.

He's nothing but a self-hating case, trying to mimic the homophobes in order to be accepted by the homophobes. Truth is, homophobes will always hate gays, regardless if you're a 'masculine' gay or not.

>>948160
>pseudo-gay
So any homosexual that doesn't fit into the narrow gay identity offered by the lgbt movement is now 'pseudo gay'?
Jesus christ.

>>948160
Don't worry Princess, one day the doctors will figure out how to remove that stick from your butt, and you'll be as right as rain.

>>948160
>'respectful discussion' of LGBT issues only

that's what it has been so far, then you came and started being a fag, why don't you relax.

>>948172
I love how she always proves Donovan's point when trying to argue against his perspective.

>>948172

Welcome to POTC logic, where anyone who has a different opinion than her on their homosexuality is objectively wrong and should be shunned by the community.

I'm only the second most hated tripfag on here for a reason.

>>948072

>It's safety concerns and corporate lawsuits that did this.

They should just be able to sign something.

This isn't like dog fighting where you can't get the animal's consent. If two men have written down their consent and want to fight each other to the death while being filmed so that the rest of the world can enjoy watching it then that should be perfectly fine.

Humans have loved watching death fights for as long as we've been around. They were one of the primary sources of entertainment in Rome and even today there is nothing more entertaining than watching pure and unadulterated violence. Just look at how everyone absolutely loves to watch the recordings of riots and other events that are filled with unrestrained violence.

These things appeal to all of us on a very instinctual level and will always be the most entertaining things in life, but we're forced to watch censored and unsatisfying garbage because of these safety and legal concerns.

>>948094
Are you ThenAgain?

It's as bad as the people who say gays must be feminine. If your gay you have every right to be as feminine or masculine as you like. Hell, who cares if you're even gay?

>>948160
Seriously, are you ThenAgain?

>>948202

I didn't say "to the death", I mean from my view stuff like UFC would be more interesting if the guys had stuff to hit each other over the head with.

>>948160

Fuck off burgers. Just fuck off.

>>948239

Fuck you

>>948172
He's not pseudo-gay because he doesn't conform to the gay identity. In fact he conforms well enough: there are straight-acting gays since gays first appeared.

He's pseudo-gay because he claims to be inventing this new 'androphile' bullshit, as if it's a new thing, when all along he's just straight-acting while overtly attacking feminism and the LGBT movement. He's not free to be openly gay BECAUSE the LGBT and feminist movements fought and succeeded in getting public tolerance of gays. He's being utterly hypocritical and ungrateful for being pseudo-gay now.

>>948177
>>948179
>bringing no argument to the table
>'HURR DURR YOUR THE TROLL HEAR PRINCESS'
>implying you're not the close minded ones
>implying you're not some self-hating gays brainwashed by the /pol/ echo chamber propaganda

>>948203
>>948222
No.

>>948239
>being this frustrated

>>948231

You usually can't bash someone in the head with a sledgehammer or a steel chair without either killing them or putting them in a coma though.

The death itself isn't the entertaining part, but it's just an unfortunate and inevitable side effect of two warriors fighting each other without holding back and with no rules to restrain them. Any other fight just isn't as entertaining because they go in knowing that at worst they will just break a bone and they don't fight with the same life or death passion that makes the battle so exhilarating to watch.

>>948131
Your employer is supposed to guarantee your safety. They're performers, of course they can sue.

You need a serious reality check.

It's such bullshit, because they act like it's "the real problem", in when in reality the real problem if anything is that the G already dominated LGBT issues, and they weren't content with that.

It's pretty sad that the main source of infighting in the LGBT community is between two differing groups of white, middle class gay males - the Pride types, and the anti-Pride types.

>>947464

From past threads on this, that's exactly what it's like. It's fucking terrible but appeals to conservative/right wing idiots like Dante so nothing else really matters.

>>948212
What annoys me is that this entire book implies feminine men are automatically gay, which is asinine logic.

>>948185
>Welcome to POTC logic, where anyone who has a different opinion than her on their homosexuality is objectively wrong and should be shunned by the community.

But he's the one writing off other sorts of homosexuals in the first place.

If you want to be a femme gay guy, a masculine gay guy, or some new sort of gay guy, go for it. At no point am I stopping you or discouraging you from any of this.

The real issue here is when people bring in exclusionary identity politics and expect me to be tolerant of it. Unfortunately this almost always happens with conservative LGBTs.

>>948374
>two differing groups of white, middle class gay males

thank god race was brought into this

I don't really mind it in principle. I'm a traditionally feminine lesbian who doesn't really care for "gay culture" because a lot of it is too seedy, drug-oriented, and hedonistic for my taste. I have a fairly conservative attitude towards sex and relationships, and while I don't look down on those who are more liberal, I don't really feel like I share their values.

In theory, it seems like an Androphile would be the same way, except as a masculine gay male. However, I worry that, in practice, it will just be a whole bunch of masculine men looking down their noses at femininity and advocating male supremacy. I respect masculinity and resent the way that feminists only associate it with violence and oppressive practices, slandering anyone who takes on masculine traits. I would be equally resentful of any androphile who associated femininity solely with weakness and belittled or bullied anyone who displayed feminine traits.

>>948348

>NO YOU'RE THE CLOSE-MINDED ONE

>>948349

Sledgehammer? Yes. Chair? No. The point is, I want to watch two guys go into the fight with the goal of knocking the other fucker out by any means possible. Make the ring out of barbed wire or introduce a small handful of weapons to keep shit interesting. Nothing to kill them, that's excessive. But some blood and teeth? Fuck yes.

>>948366

>I don't know about waivers or informed consent!

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>>948348
>>948160

what

sincerest form of flattery?

>>948404
Samefaggotry is just masturbation, not a compliment.

>>948387

He's writing them off because their values are a hindrance to the LGBT community. From a historical perspective, the masculine role has always been of greater social value than the feminine. It's the feminine nature of homosexuals that resulted in homosexual oppression. It's bad for our image to be encouraging feminine behavior because it denotes inferiority.

>>948404

....oh my god

I don't even know WHAT the fuck is going on.

>>948404
>that much samefag

>>948395

I don't see what's so particularly crazy about suggesting a racist right winger would be closed minded anyway.

With these things they always try to flip the rhetoric around to make it look like others are intolerant of their ideas. But intolerance is bad when it's intolerant of people, not ideas.

Some ideas are bad ideas. This book being representing one of them.

>>948408
>He's writing them off because their values are a hindrance to the LGBT community. From a historical perspective, the masculine role has always been of greater social value than the feminine. It's the feminine nature of homosexuals that resulted in homosexual oppression. It's bad for our image to be encouraging feminine behavior because it denotes inferiority.
Homosexual Euro-descendant men are not the only queers to exist in the world you gigantic faggot.

Dante... just shut the fuck up.

>>947421 (OP)

Wow, feminists must hate the shit out of this book.

>No! Don't listen! Being manly makes you a rapist! Being manly supports the patriarchy! Just keep acting like good little girls!

>>948424

I don't necessarily see a problem with being intolerant of weakness or anything that encourages or enables weakness.

>>948391

>In theory, it seems like an Androphile would be the same way, except as a masculine gay male. However, I worry that, in practice, it will just be a whole bunch of masculine men looking down their noses at femininity and advocating male supremacy.

This is exactly what it is. There's also a long documented history of this sort of homosexuality and links with fascism.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/the-strange-strange-story_b_136697.html

Really the good old Queers are generally much better people than the androphiles, even if I agree with you that a lot of gay culture is too seedy for me to integrate with. I don't really think all gay culture is like that though - and in fact I feel like it is only like that these days as a reflection of mainstream culture, which is much the same.

>>948450
Can you be any more of a preening bourgeois victim?

considering that we're simultaneously arguing about gay literature and spectator deathmatch, I don't really think we need a "fag-hating faggot" movement to allow gay men to be "dudes".

>>948408

>He's writing them off because their values are a hindrance to the LGBT community. From a historical perspective, the masculine role has always been of greater social value than the feminine. It's the feminine nature of homosexuals that resulted in homosexual oppression. It's bad for our image to be encouraging feminine behavior because it denotes inferiority.

lol. Aside from you being one of the worst human beings on this board by a long shot with your racism and misogyny and "social cohesion" bullshit, do you have anything to actually back this up?

What you're saying is classic victim blaming if anything. It is the judgement of others that resulted in homosexual oppression. There's nothing inherently "wrong" about feminine behaviour and I wouldn't even agree that what is often called "femme" behaviour in homosexuals is all that similar to how women present or act, it's just not traditionally masculine.

The thing is that victim blaming isn't just feminist rhetoric, it's rooted in what are called "Logical fallacies". You see, while there is this impression that us liberal types operate on emotions, you may find those of us outside of the far right have this invention called "logic".

What you are invoking is called the "Just World Fallacy" and I suggest you look it up. Also, appeal to consequences.

Traditional masculinity could also be linked with all sorts of negative blotches throughout history, mostly pointless wars.

>>948457

That's because you're a sociopath.

And I actually honestly mean that, I'm not saying that as an insult.

There is nothing morally wrong with being weak and a society that abandons the weak may as well not exist.

>>948443

Every single successful society has established masculinity as being superior to femininity. You can't really argue this, there's no example of a successful nation with predominately feminine values.

>>948391
>I would be equally resentful of any androphile who associated femininity solely with weakness and belittled or bullied anyone who displayed feminine traits.
The severe downside about most self-avowed androphiles is that they assuage their insecurity by doing just this.

>>948483

Sure you can.

The Roman Empire, right before its collapse.

*snicker*

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>>948391

...have my gaybies.

I feel very similar, although I'm assuming I'm probably not as traditionally feminine as you. It's nice to hear input on this topic from a female, especially because of your perspective on the possible downfalls of what Donovan advocates.

Tl;dr - You and your opinion are awesome.

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I firmly believe that both Dante and PotC are the manifestation of two exact opposite and equally autismal personalities from the same aspie with disassociative identity disorder.

>>948479

See, what you're doing is defending the irrelevent. I'm talking on behalf of the conquerors and the victors, the ones who actually achieved greatness. The failures are all irrelevant. There is a proven historical record that associates masculinity with victory.

Futhermore, if I'm a sociopath, then maybe only successful people are sociopaths, because we understand what's actually important.

>>948504

And why do you think it fell? It was effeminate and weak, so the masculine western Europeans literally raped it to death as they should have.

Dante, define "Feminine Values."

>>948519
>And why do you think it fell? It was effeminate and weak, so the masculine western Europeans literally raped it to death as they should have.
Holy crap, just how many fucking issues do you have, chubs?

>>948519

(that's the joke)

>>948483

The problem is with how you define "successful" which generally involves conquering and domineering others. There were matriarchal societies before the Olympian era of ancient greece for example. It was when the new Pantheon came in that things started to get dudebro-ish and shit got smashed.

An ideal society would balance masculine and feminine values anyway. We're still quite young as a civilisation so fall back on overly simplistic gender roles based on what we perceive from nature. Fast forward a few hundred years and your worldview will be on the level of flat earth society.

>>948519

>Futhermore, if I'm a sociopath, then maybe only successful people are sociopaths, because we understand what's actually important.

The problem is with how you define success.

I saw a really good modern dance show called "Icarus" that linked "successful" business men to the Icarus myth and Jungian psychology, talking about the shadow etc.

Your idea of greatness is just conquering shit which is pretty pathetic. I'm more interested in things like art and improving the human condition. You're just a big teenager.

>>948517

I really want that to be true because with all of the press appearances I (we?) would be set for life.

>>948524

Passivity, docility, compassion, hospitality, and charity. Unproductive values of the subordinate.

I think to each his own, but I also recognize that without gay civil rights activists, the lives of many gay men and women would be horrific. Let's remember that there are a lot of haters out there unfortunately.

>>948348

>He's not free to be openly gay BECAUSE the LGBT and feminist movements fought and succeeded in getting public tolerance of gays

Gays weren't being beaten in the streets until the LGBT and feminist movements came along. There were plenty of known gay men back in older times, they were referred to as 'confirmed bachelors', and everyone knew that they were gay but it wasn't something that anyone talked about and no one attacked them. There were even civil rights groups (referred to as the homophile movement rather than the LGBT movement) that fought for rights through peaceful and less obnoxious ways.

Homosexuality wasn't as commonly associated with decadence and perversion until the Stonewall days when what would become the founders of the LGBT movement were doing meth in filthy underground clubs.

This all came to a head at the Stonewall riots and then the LGBT's in-your-face style of fighting became the norm and the homophile movement, which was mostly composed of older and more respectable gays, was eventually dissolved. This was typical for the time since the 60s and 70s were utter shit and they were riding on the coattails of the counter-culture movements those hippie drug addicts were doing.

Everything would have been better without the LGBT. They came at the problem with no subtlety whatsoever and ran into it like a human bulldozer. Now we have to spend decades cleaning up all of the stereotypes and prejudice that they created with their chaotic and short-sighted movement.

>>948542
>I'm more interested in art

I can tell, from you're reference to matriarchal pre-history you must a deep love of fiction.

>>948534

No, because "appeal to moderation" is a logical fallacy.

An attempt to "balance masculine and feminine values" would simply introduce tons of these logical fallacies and "MUH FEELINGS" into a masculine society.

I mean, look at what a failure feminism turned out to be. An ideal society wouldn't have a "moderate amount of radical feminist bullshit"... it wouldn't have any.

I'm not about to start bashing gay people. Seems like this book is divisive.

>>948542

You know what's great? You can do everything you can to improve the human condition or whatever bullshit you do, and my kind of people will roll in with tanks and guns and render everything you did to be a waste of time. History is on my side. The more feminine we get the weaker we get, until a more masculine force rightfully devours us and the cycle repeats itself.

>>948560
>Gays weren't being beaten in the streets until the LGBT and feminist movements came along.

You're right, they were being beaten in prisons and hung by the justice system.

PotC is a dumbass but that's one fucking ridiculous argument you just made.

>>948571
>hurr durr masculinity is mindless destruction

Jesus Christ Dante, shut the hell up.

>>948571
Your correlation/causation fail is almost just has bad as her incessant hugbox bullshit

>>948560

Actually the stereotypes and bigotry stem from faulty abrahamic religious thinking which calls gay a sin.
Look to the real problem dude.

>>948592

>>r/atheism

>>948571
And you'll die miserable and alone and unfulfilled with life.

>>948571

But there are and always will be effeminate gay and straight men. Instead of stupidly calling for men to fake their masculinity why don't you ask for men to value themselves, their gender and promote ethics and brotherhood?

>>948599
Typical quality of a Dante response we have come to expect

>>948545
>Passivity, docility, compassion, hospitality, and charity. Unproductive values of the subordinate.
You know, I actually agree with PotC. You're a sociopath.

>>948613
+1

>>948606

>Implying I won't enjoy my actual achievements and accomplishments

How can you be fulfilled without doing anything of actual worth?

>>948571
Dante.

Shut UP.

>>948348

arent you a mft? nobody cares about your opinion because your not a "gay" "man" anymore.

>>948599

>because nor believing in misanthropic abrahamuc philosophy means you have no spirituality.

You fucking doublenigger shitbox

>>948623

What exactly have you accomplished, fatty?

We should lock Princess and Dante in a room together. Either they will kill each other or they will fall in love and the resulting hideousness will purge the world of humanity. Either way, we won't have to listen to them any more.

>>948613
Because then he couldn't swing his gut around, affecting superiority like an obnoxious douchebag.

>>948579

The sodomy laws were terrible, but they didn't become a witch hunt until the LGBT started essentially hitting the hornet's nest by getting mixed up in drugs, underground mafia run clubs, and rioting in the streets.

Look at most of western Europe. Their gay movements were far more tame and non-confrontational and they had their sodomy laws taken down decades before the U.S and gay marriage has also gone through most nations in western Europe with little to no real opposition.

Had the LGBT been more like the homophile movement then not only would the sodomy laws been repealed, but we wouldn't be fighting a state by state war to legalize gay marriage since the majority of the nation would not despise us based on stereotypes that the LGBT created.

>>948619
He's an idiot that no one will ever hold anything but contempt for and he'll die miserable and alone because at some point he will realize that the only reason he even lived to adulthood is someone else's compassion, hospitality, and charity and that the very reason humanity and civilization survives is what he hates. He'll learn that groups of all-for-one assholes tear each other apart and have no evolutionary success and that that groups of charitable, compassionate individuals out succeed groups of assholes.

ITT: Insecure, fascist, misogynistic cock-suckers trying to distance themselves distinguish themselves from other cock-suckers who aren't trying as hard to fit in with all the cool kids on /pol/.

This is I'm so highly suspect of this "androphile" thing like >>948391
It's almost always just a movement promoted by a bunch of faggots who don't want to associate with other faggots.

>>948661
>flamer detected

>>948640

So far, little things. Helping to build hydrogen purifiers and F-16 assembly parts. I aspire to greater things though, whatever they may be.

>>948642

>Implying she wouldn't go in the corner and cry because my very presence is oppressing her somehow.

>>948642
>Either they will kill each other or they will fall in love and the resulting hideousness will purge the world of humanity.
My fucking sides.

>WHAT HAPPENS WHEN AN UNSTOPPABLE TRANNY AND AN IMMOVABLE FAGGOT COLLIDE?
>THE WEINSTEIN FILM COMPANY PRESENTS: >ASPIETOWN SHOWDOWN

>>948673
Buddy.
Thats a pretty fucking harsh accusation to just throw around here. Id watch what I say.

>>948661

Exactly. I can never understand how gay men can call other gay men out and generalizing how shitty they are, when in fact their venom says a lot more about them then it does their target. They are all probably closet cases who want so desperately to be accepted by super hating anti gay trolls.

>>948660
It's basic Darwinism. The most cooperative species survives.

>>948678
Lol you're not exactly conquering the world you conceited dumbass.

I have to hand it to you, tho, I'm surprised you kept your bullshit in long enough for someone to let you help them.

>>948660
He's just mad he doesn't get enough aspie meds so he takes it out on literally everyone he speaks to.

>>948678
Well it's good to see that the government is finally putting it's welfare cases to doing some work. Maybe someday you'll move up from making broken machinery and be functional enough to operate a deep-fryer.

I have a whole range of friends and I like going to gay or straight bars and clubs. I always have fun and meet interesting people. I don't know why people hate on gay clubs so much. It's not 1995 or something. A lot of different type of guys go to them. I live in a big city so I guess I have a wider perspective. If you spend all your time online reading and looking at things that are negative stereotypes about gay people YOU WILL become self hating.

>>948687
>watch what i say

oh noes i so scared!

>>948660

Of course, that's why femininity is still tolerated. Someone has to patch the soldiers up and maintin a masculine society. Even following orders is a feminine trait that many men have to practice. Just because one is superior to the other doesn't mean there can only be one. But a predominately masculine society will always overcome a predominately feminine society. A society without a healthy balance of both may as well not exist.

>>948709

I didn't say I was.

>>948734
>Sparta is the ideal society

Is this guy usually this stupid?

>>948673
Not even.

I'm one of those gay guys who doesn't even show up on other gay peoples gaydars. And I would be all for gay men who want to be macho and opt out of the gay community if they could figure out a way to not be complete douchebags about it.

Seriously, you guys act like the fratbros of the gay community and are just as embarrassing.

>>948734

Hey there are different qualities to a person. Case closed.

>>948734
You were acting like you're a more successful and ambitious person than the queeny gay guys you despise.

You're not. Your androphilia shit is a lost battle. They're the ones gaining acceptance while western society points and laughs at people like Donavon. They've already won.

>>948734

Hmm native American cultures were decidedly balanced. The brute masculine societies that you're talking about - the ones that only value on aspect of humanity - always crumble...too much war you dogfart.

>>948744
>LOOK HOW NOT GAY I AM BRO
>IM NOT A FAGGOT I JUST SUCK COCK

its pretty pathetic imo

>>948751

Maybe in the short term, but when western society inevitably collapses, who will rebuild it? Men who think like me. It's all just a cycle playing out over and over again.

>>948391

>feminists only associate it with violence and oppressive practices, slandering anyone who takes on masculine traits.

This is a good thing.

>androphile who associated femininity solely with weakness and belittled or bullied anyone who displayed feminine traits.

This is also a good thing.

Masculinity and femininity are rival factions that feed off ridiculing and feeling superior to the other. It's a healthy and enjoyable rivalry that has existed throughout all of human history. Trying to force everyone to think of everything from a "no bullies allowed, love everyone" state of mind just makes everyone passive and lethargic. It takes away all of the fun in life and replaces it with apathy. It's the same mentality that has ruined kids and turned schools into little prison yards where roughhousing gets you expelled.

Women should be able to generalize men and think of them as stupid brutes and men should be able to look at women and think of them as weak.

>>948734
Could you stop turning your fetish for Classical Antiquity faggots into a fucking political ideology?

You look beyond silly.

>>948760
Oh for god's sake stop watching Pocahontas, sit your ass down and read a fucking book.

>>948766
>but when western society inevitably collapses
Here we go...

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I love this "Unproductive" bullshit. I'm an artist, writer, dancer, musician... I may not excel at any of those things but at least I make things people enjoy... what the fuck does Dante create of any worth? I'm sure like a lot of Fedoras he probably rates himself as a wandering wiseman imparting his knowledge on us all, and not just some dumb autist with severe empathy issues and no social skills. At least I work on that shit instead of creating an ideology around it.

>>948760
>>948760

>Native American cultures

You mean the ones that were all conquered and wiped out by a more effective, masculine society?

Obviously too much masculinity can fail, it's like a car going at full speed without any gas in the tank. It's going to burn itself out and self-destruct. But if masculine virtues aren't properly valued, the car doesn't move at all.

>>948769
Driving an artificial wedge between the genders to maintain the status quo of mutual mistrust and hatred you claim needs maintaining is fucking retarded anon.

>>948780
Pretty sure neither of you contribute to anything of worth if you really want to know.
Not to worry there is plenty of room at the bottom.

>>948783
>>948783
>>948783
>>948783
>>948783
>>948783
>>948783

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>>947464
I'm a twink but I'm still a man damnit. Feminists are the enemy and you're collaborating with them.

>>948769
Bullying has soared becauae of social media. That's different than physical fighting for sport with consenting players : rough housing.
The idea that it's "just ok" to allow bigotry and it's attendant violence to remain unchecked is illogical and counter-intuitive.

>>948781
You realize that much of our American government was based on the political structure of the Iroquois League, correct?

Christ, read a fucking book kid.

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>>947523
I think I'm in love with you

>>948781

They weren't wiped out from heroic masculinity rather religion and ignorance - which are the weakest things in humanity.

Please kill yourself immediately.

>>948763
It is pathetic. Super-macho, brutish assholes are just as annoying and unwelcome in civilized society as obnoxious, hysterical queens. If you want to act like a normal person, fine. But super-conservative, Islamo-fascist ideals are not considered normal in Western culture and one needs to only take a glance at the Middle East to see why.

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>>948813
>comparing being a civil human being to being a kebab

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>>947523
>mfw I'm an MtF who hunts and goes shooting
>mfw why can't I hold all of these self-serving bullshit stereotypes

>>948781
most of their population was cut down by small pox and similar diseases, and a lot of it wasn't intentional

I don't believe it's possible to know how they would have fared if that shit hadn't wiped them out first

>>948780

If you want to get picky, I'm studying under a gunsmith and learning to weld to make practical devices. I'm also planning on helping him deal with gun sales in hopes of being a gun salesman myself someday.

>>948800

You realize that the American government has been slowly falling apart with the increase of the voter base, right?

>>948769

I disagree. I think we need synergy by people being content with their gender roles. Internal strife is bad for the structure as a whole.

>>947523
there's a huge masculine/conservative subculture with gay men what are you talking about. it's been here forever and is only more unified because of the internet..

and masculine/conservative gays like to go to clubs too and would scoff and your celibacy.

that being said most conservatism is stupid and regressive.

>>948800
Yeah, I saw that Cracked article too. It's fucking lies, as can be seen by anyone with a passing familiarity with the British system of government.

>>948810
>actually believes that everyone in history was always obsessed with god and jeebus while trying to survive in an expansionist colonial society.

More like they were out in the wilderness and staked out their own territory, which they were able to defend. Religion is secondary to survival in even the most retarded people. Get over yourself

>>948827
>>948827

You moron. It's only ever about the economy. You'll soon know that when the dollar collapses - and it will.

>>948810
>Christianity killed the native americans

I don't know which one of you is stupider.

>>948810

They were wiped out because of business- they were on land that industrialists and settlers wanted. They were in the way and were unable to defend themselves, so they were devoured by the more ambitious culture.

>>948824

They had lived the same for centuries. They had no desire to change or accomplish anything. They'd be in the same spot they were before we showed up, because they were a docile society incapable of serious change.

>>948830

Religion =\= spirituality.its government.

>>948842
God damn Dante, shut the hell up. You're as stupid as Princess of the Crystal Dildo.

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>>948847
don't call them by name, they like the attention

>>948838

The increase of the voter base is partially responsible for that. Presidential candidates didn't have to be as qualified and charisma took place over actual ability.

>>948821
>Implying that being a gay, wannabe /pol/lock=being a civil human being
Lol no. Your sort has more in common with kebobs than anyone else.

>>948783

>Driving an artificial wedge

It's a completely natural wedge which is the result of the inherent differences between men and women. The only artificial thing here is the brainwashing that our society applies to us in an attempt to strip away femininity and masculinity and replace it with a soulless and completely manufactured neutral gender that has no soul or personality whatsoever.

You can't have diversity without a little healthy rivalry. It's just what happens when differences collide and it's a wonderful thing.

>>948842

/poltalk.

You'd do anything to get raped by anti-gay extreme fascists. I bet you believe that's the only way you can ever be a "real" man.

>>948855
You're right, we should go back to when only the landed elite were allowed to vote. Sucks for the rest of us, but at least you won't be allowed to vote.

>>948855

Wrong
1913 federal reserve.
Also, the economy doesn't change with administrations. They transcend them

>>948824
But the primary issue aspieface forgets is that many of the early colonists co-existed with many of these tribes, and oftentimes would leave the colony proper to both live and trade with the proverbial "savages." They'd take wives, and husbands, and be inducted into tribes, etc. This was also where the "mysteriously vanished" Roanoke Colony ended up, integrated with local tribes.

The lack of knowledge about the aboriginal inhabitants of the Americas and the structure of their various societies he purposely keeps himself ignorant of is staggering.

Dante's obsessed with the narrative of bombastic politics and blood and thunder and all of that dick-jerking teen bullshit because he's an immature sociopath with a superiority complex.

That's about it.

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>ITT

>implying it's not the tripfags themselves taking off their trip and responding to themselves most of the time

Also, most LGBT people don't care about this 'Social Justice' LGBT movement anymore. It's mostly straight people being encouraged by feminists nowadays who kept on talking about gay marriage.

>>948858
>not wanting to be taken forcefully by a man in full SS uniform

I'm sorry anon, but I'm afraid you have to turn in your fag badge.

>>948827
>You realize that the American government has been slowly falling apart with the increase of the voter base, right?
What the fuck does that have to do with your ignorance of our nation's founding and history you fucking moron? Stop deflecting.

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>>948860
dante is a neofeudalist. you're trying to argue economic and political policy with someone who believes in those disciplines' equivalent of witchcraft.

>>948798

>Bullying has soared becauae of social media.

Bullying is a good thing. The only problem with bullying is all of the anti-bullying programs that people keep making.

Bullying is nature's way of helping you toughen up and develop willpower, both of which are traits which modern westerners are in desperate need of. Coddling and protecting children from bullying does nothing but harm them and turn them into overgrown babies that can't fly the nest and handle the real world because it's too "mean."

>>948874
Neo-feudalism is a step up from what he believes. He masturbated to 300 so many times he decided that violent barbarism is the ideal all men should strive for.

>>948857

Again, I disagree. There needs to be cooperation and synergy, which is best caused by both parts of society knowing their role.

Think of a civilization like a machine, where everyone knows their function and can fulfill it to the best of their duty. The parts don't fight with each other, only act on their own purposes.

You're thinking of competition between civilizations, which actually is healthy until one is so big it dwarfs the others, at which point it fragments and collapses and the cycle starts anew.

>>948864

I will concede that point. The inherent flaws of democracy aside, the federal reserve is a major cancer upon the economy.

>>948875

The problem with bullying is that we don't teach the victims to fight for themselves and build that crucial aggression they need, rather we encourage them to be dependent victims, making them useless.

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>>948875
a naturalistic fallacy of poe's law proportions.

>>948882

So you missed everything I've said about an overly masculine society being unsustainable?

>>948890
Yeah, I saw it. Your idea of what a properly masculine society is what I'm referring to as violent barbarism.

>>948875
Bullying is bred from brutish ignorance and those who advocate brutish ignorance. Children must be taught strength and willpower through positive reinforcement else they become fractured caricatures of a dime-novel thugs like yourself.

>>948897

So you would say the roman empire was violent barbarism? How about early imperial America? The British Empire? Those are what I'm talking about.

>>948875
Bullying is a symptom of how society allows children, who were once expected to conduct themselves as civilized beings, as an undisciplined rabble. Like a child raised by wolves the products of indifferent parents grow up feral and stupid, and then they try to pass on their disfunctionality onto others.

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>>948910
yes; yes; yes; the last two actually had economic policy in direct contention with what you've advanced in the past as well.

>>948899

What you call "brutish ignorance" I call the basic nature of children. It's what they do. We just need to equip our youth to actually play the game. A victim fighting back effectively teaches the bully to use their force with judgement, and teaches the victim to fight for themselves.

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>>948923
c.f.
>>948886
this shouldn't wouldn't fly on a high school debate team.

a tendency i've noticed among social conservatives is that they like to use the threat of violence to enforce the things that they think are proper. social liberals can be bullies as well, but they tend to prefer legislating their pet morality rather than bludgeoning you with it.

>>948899

>Children must be taught strength and willpower through positive reinforcement

Okay, let's look at how well this has been working. We've been plagued with this shit ever since the hippies reformed the education system so we've got several decades of examples to look at.

Test scores have plummeted, children are trained to be so passive that they have no defense against bullying at all, teachers don't tell kids about harsh realities because they don't want to "crush their dreams" and the end result is a bunch of unemployed adults that graduated with liberal arts degrees and still live with their parents, obesity is worse than ever and many people are starting to start movements where they actually praise morbid obesity, young people have no willpower and give up in everything they do, and absolutely nothing has improved in any way. This positive reinforcement bullshit has managed to ruin basically every single aspect of today's youth.

This kind of hippie thinking has been the single most destructive blow against the educational system in centuries.

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>>948950
correlation and causality, one after the other. a big heaping pile of [citation needed]

>>948828

<3 you _shark_

>>948936
I'd say both resort to bludgeoning you with their ideology, but social conservatives jump to threatening you far sooner. Their left-leaning counterparts tend to progress through varying amounts of shaming, insults, and threats of ostracization before they get to violent rhetoric.

>>948910
>So you would say the roman empire was violent barbarism? How about early imperial America? The British Empire?
Are you fucking stupid? These were some of the most brutal times in history.

Did you even READ how Gaius Julius Caesar behaved in the Gallic war? No. Because you don't care about details. You care about jerking off to 300 and fetishizing all of Classical Antiquity.

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>>948965
violence is frequently a crux of their arguments and world view, though; you know, don't wear your skirt too short cuz you'll get raped, don't be too much of a fag because you'll get bashed. even when trying to do it in (what they think is) a positive way, it hinges on anonymous enforces brutalizing you to be more like they want you to be.

>>948829
>Yeah, I saw that Cracked article too.
>implying I get my history from Cracked.com

Books. Read BOOKS you fucking aspies.

>>948975
It is an ideology of abject fear, whereas social liberals are more a result of overconfidence.

Humorously enough, they both think each one is the opposite of these things.

>>948975

Violence is a reality of the world though. You can't change how most people think and the belief that you can is just liberal nonsense that is cooked up in the safe and sheltered suburbs of first world countries.

It's the same wishful thinking nonsense that has been dispelled from the mind's of dozens of western female journalists that decided it was a good idea to go visit the Egypt protests and were subsequently gang-raped in the middle of a crowd of several hundred thousand people.

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>>949017
>Violence is a reality of the world though.

speaking of, naturalistic fallacies abound in low level socially conservative rhetoric.

>>949022

>Go to South Africa in a short skirt to empower some oppressed minorities.
>"I'll be fine because at heart everyone is a good person and anyone who says otherwise is just spouting close-minded conservative rhetoric."
>Get gang-raped and robbed shortly after entering the ghettos.
>"BUT MUH FALLACIES"

>>948975
>mfw you like The World/Inferno Friendship Society
I didn't used to like you. I like you now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOqakh6r3-I

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>>949071
>"I'll be fine because at heart everyone is a good person and anyone who says otherwise is just spouting close-minded conservative rhetoric.

i didn't say this. people are not naturally or inherently predisposed towards violence, but they don't grow up in vacuums either.

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>>949080
i have that saved because it's a great westwood/mclaren piece
here's something they did for the sex pistols. i don't like the sex pistols tbh, but whatre u gonna do

>>949071
>implying most of the libtards on here wouldnt like getting raped by nigs.

>>949071
Overgeneralizations citing the lowest common denominator of human behavior as the character of all human beings is absolutely retarded, anon, and you use this sort of attitude to justify dehumanizing whichever group you feel like making a scapegoat for all of your problems on any given day.

Today it's all Egyptians, tomorrow it's all masculine lesbians, the next day it's all American blacks, the next day it's all effeminate gay men.

You're a dishonest and self-serving piece of shit. Anyone who falls for this rhetoric deserves all the ridicule they receive.

>>949082
but if people never grow up in vacuums then how can you make any assumptions about their inherent predispositions?

>>949119
cause humans are violent cunts pick up a fucking history book once in a while

oh wait you're probably some retarded clapistani who doesn't know what a book is

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>>949154
>if I keep saying all humans are inherently violent, it justifies my own anti-social violent tendencies
>hurr durr paki

As much as I can sympathise with the revulsion toward gay culture, trying to make up a whole new identity seems not only counterproductive (because isolationist, and thus from the beginning giving up the field of struggle to what it opposes) but totally unnecessary. As they become more accepted, gay men (and women, for that matter) are becoming more conservative--rejecting the flamboyant, the unhealthy, the sexually degenerate behaviours this culture tries to foist on them. The more LGBT people have a real interest and influence in how things are, the more everything about them, including their politics, becomes mainstream.

The idea of androphilia is interesting on its own though. It's a more accurate term for me than homosexual, because I'm not, or not just, attracted to members of my own sex, I'm attracted to masculinity (hence not attracted to MtFs, and attracted to many qt FtMs). It's interesting to imagine how we might talk about sexuality if we talked about orientations toward masculinity and femininity rather than orientations toward male and female.

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>>949188

>clapistan
>paki

>>949212
Shut the fuck up Britbong.

Dante, everyone hates you and your not making progress on this board. People fighting to the death for entertainment is sick and twisted. Masculinity is not under attack. there's nothing wrong with manly gay men, or feminine gay men. they are just being who they are. you seriously need a reality check. our society is the way is it because society changes and "progresses" for 99% of todays population, people fighting to the death is sick and not a viable form of evolution for a reason. In Shakespeares time it was extremely manly to be in theater and wear wigs and makeup. so before you continue to spout your narrow minded views, go take a look at reality and get redpilled. people today don't want to loose their teeth for a 10 minute stint. your the one who complained about not wanting to feel pain a few threads ago! can you just plz go so /LGBT/ can go back to being productive and supportive. as for the conservative gays here, come to Ohio, there are so many here its insane. yeah, Cleveland has a lot of frilly gays, but just use that most famous if male traits and not give a fuck. society isn't going to trun into a T-raging hyper-masculine blood bath anytime soon, and those days of old are gone for a reason. thank you for your time. now go.

>>947871
>Men are being feminized.
That's generally the plan. As a stop-gap measure it's working fairly well. Personally, I wish it was happening a little faster.

I just miss legit good guys. Their becoming so rare these days and trying to compensate for less members are just killing them off all the more quickly.

>>949332
Real feminists hate trannies, and you'll never be a woman. These are two important things you should never forget.

>>949359
from my experience the number of good guys has increased, that being said, there still isn't enough of them, yeah.

>>949391
That's alright. Feminists aren't women either.

>>949391
>Real feminists hate trannies

That's an inaccurate generalization.

>>949391
No, only TERFs hate trannies. And I'm sure I could convince them of the usefulness of trannies if I could sit down and have a talk with one. Besides, once the men are all dead and the Y chromosome has been purged from the gene-pool, trannies won't exist anymore. So they'll win in the end eventually. I just need to make them see the usefulness of a short term alliance.

>>949394
Not where I am at the last legit good guy I knew actually died because of it.

>>949428
It's easier to control society if popular culture raises kids to be me-first scared-of-their-own-shadow sociopaths.

>>949428
awwe, Im sorry anon. I've known about 6 and 3 of them I still keep in touch with. But those are the ones I KNOW, Im aware of at least 2 possible nice guys at my job. Just got to keep looking, I had to dig through a lot of shit to find the ones I know.

>>947871
>professional wrestling
>manly
Get a load of this retard

Nothing new. Just gays being homophobic and crying themselves to bed because they weren't born a macho macho heterosexual.

>>947523
Hah, nice internalized homophobia here. You don't have to reject shit, there are still guys like you out there. The fact that you don't associate with a stereotype and this has driven you to celibacy in some sort of pathetic 'protest' is idiotic.

>>947768
There's nothing conservative about nazis.

>>948950
>>948950

That's not how the human psyche works. Bullying is traumatizing and counter productive, since it cripples the self security of individuals, who will lack the will to be the better version of themselves unless they go to a psychologist. This has nothing to do with your anti liberal bias. .

>>948613
I honestly think this is what the book is talking about. The concept of brotherhood especially.
The whole us vs. them thing doesn't accomplish anything and increases divide between masculine and feminine gays. Understanding differences and maximizing their strengths is much more valuable to a culture.
The masculine gays should hold their head strong and don't be scared of feminine attributes, while feminine gays should also be proud of who they are and don't cut down anyone who is different from the mainstream.
This outburst of uncontrolled emotions with no thinking and sorting, especially demonstrated by Dante and PotC is the antithesis of what needs to happen.

Let the mascs go out an conquer society for a better place for LGTB and let the femmes nurture and give value to that culture.

Goddamn, that seems like a great thing, largely. I'm not usually on this board, by the way.
I tried coming out when I was in high school, and became horridly disillusioned to the whole scene. The "community", the youth groups, the get-togethers. It was all very very superficial and alienating. I didn't understand the need for the labels. I STILL don't understand them. The only thing worse than being hated was the weird slew of support and respect behind awkward confusion. Most people I know know nothing about my sexuality, and it doesn't bother me, because I am not my sexuality. It is a part of me, but not a part anybody needs to know unless I'm going to be fucking them.

A few problems I have with the description, though. It describes "androphile" in weird terms, as "androphilia" would simply mean "love of men", and implies homosexuality in no way directly. It's also weirdly confusing the idea of encouraging androgyny with the separate feminist/lgbtq agenda which seems to widen segregation by strengthening the labels.
Labels are good things. They help us categorize, but this idea of separation and alienation needs to stop. Also, this weird phase of basing all of one's being on their gender is stupid. Trans folks have their own bag, I'll admit, but sexuality isn't who a person is, in the same way that food aversion and allergies aren't.

tl;dr: I praise the pro-gay anti-gay-culture ideals, but I really feel it goes in a weird mucho-macho path, based on the desc.

>>949517
/thread

So basically the book is
>How to be a bear

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Found it on Amazon. I'm reading a bit of the forward, and i'm already hooked.
Where the fuck has this book been my whole life?
>Why must I constantly think of myself as a struggling minority when i'm doing fine?
>what does socialism have to do with who I think is how?

He also goes on to explain how 'gay men who act masculine and against the gay stereotype often surprise straights, and are perceived as self-loathing by them, and looked at as repressed by other gays'
Holy fuck.
Sold.
I'm buying this shit as soon as my paycheck hits the bank later today.

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>>949706
>They are not my 'family'. They are not my 'people'. Why should I identify more closely with a lesbian folk singer than with other men my age who share my interests?
Makes me wonder how many homosexuals have read this book and immediately burst into flames out of anger.

>>949726
And it's sad that these other gays think this way, man. I mean, we're not doing anything hostile by being ourselves.
And being proud of who you are doesn't mean you shame those who are not like you.

Maybe they're the self-loathing and repressed ones, idk.

there are fucking Gay MRAs now?

What is this fucking world coming to?

brb gotta cut off my dick and sell it on eBay

>"This book is being released by Scapegoat Publishing. Their advertising slogan is `Blame Us!' It's extremely appropriate in this case. Go ahead. Blame me. Insult me. Blackball me. I can take your hate. I don't need your love, your acceptance or your approval."

>I approached Jack about this book because I thought his premise was right. Not only did I think he was right, but I felt that what he had to say was a challenge that should be brought against many of the presumptions that our society either holds to be true without dispute, or worse yet, has pressure groups that use emotional and political power to suppress any discussion that questions the status quo.

>He calls into question stereotypes that exist about homosexuals. This stereotype is now one crafted by interested parties, instead of the bigoted views of Christian fundamentalists or disinterested outsiders. It's one that's often crafted in a similar way that products are marketed, to appeal and shine and often offer more than the product will ever be able to deliver. And that is a lie. Jack is not a stereotype, not a lifestyle enthusiast; he is a man who loves men.

Holy fuck, this man. Yes
brb, Ordering this book whenever I get my paycheck.

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>>949706
>>949726
>>949827
this is marketing language, fyi

>>949837
It's not the language, it's the message that appeals to me.

It could be totally flat and listless language, and it would still appeal to me.

>>949837
Only really the last quote, and you should really expect that of something identified as an "advertising slogan", smartass. The other ones are just statements. They sound like the kind of heated claims I would make if pressed.

If you really didn't care about the gay stereotypes and all of that, you wouldn't write a fucking book about it.

I won't lie, there's a goid amount of this that I agree with. But this "androphilia" bullshit is just dumb. It's making a new term, that, if it catches on, will carry it's own stereotypes anyway.

Stop trying to describe yourself with words and live your fucking life. If people want to group you and stereotype you, to hell with them. It doesn't really matter.

I understand that people feel isolated from these LGBT bullshit gatherings, but making up a new word for yourselves doesn't fix those issues. Start your own bullshit gatherings, if it'll make you happy. Or hell, don't. Live your life withiut worrying how you'll be labeled.

TLDR; this addresses some real issues, but it isn't a solution.

I don't understand, he's complaining that there are femmy boys in the gay culture? So? There's still plenty of giant bear men and big manly men in the culture too, it takes all sorts.

>>949861
>If you really didn't care about the gay stereotypes and all of that, you wouldn't write a fucking book about it.
But he says he cares about the stereotypes. He rejects them because he feels that they are damaging to his lifestyle, because people see him as non-legitimate if he doesn't act like a stereotypical queer.

The rest of your post I agree with, and it largely aligns with my previous post (>>949582)

>>949861
Have you read the book? I don't think he wants to other gay men to call themselves androphiles or create a new label, he stresses being men above all labels at the end of OPs quote.
As some of the quotes >>949827 it sounds more like this book is challenging stereotypes while reinforcing masculinity.

>>949706
>he tells me exactly want to hear
>plz take my money
Pleb.

>>949878
He's challenging stereotypes as a whole

And I agree with what you say about bears, but they're more sexual and superficially manly. The book discusses more deep masculinity.

>>949888
>He tells me something I agree with
>plz take my money

ftfy

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>>949852
>>949855
artists that i like also engage in this marketing double speak, and i don't mind it, i'm just perturbed when people buy into it without dissonance.

>>949878
i haven't read the book, but i'm always worried about this sort of rhetoric in general; it's almost like they're playing a zero sum game where, say, the queeny dudes have to be de-legitimatized in order for them, the "normal" dudes to be legitimatized. it's really strange when arguments for a person's authenticity hinge on someone else's inauthenticity.

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>>949897
i should expand: as opposed to an affirmation of their own identity. maybe it wasn't the author who wrote the blurb, but the blurb specifically questions whether or not "mainstream" gay is really authentic in order to establish this "androphilic" identity as being authentic.

>>949896
Not him, but confirmation bias doesn't strengthen your point. Intelligent people challenge their own views regularly, not reaffirm them incessantly.

>>949897
I don't think he's trying to invalidate anybody, I think he's just making masculine gays more visible. It isn't an attack on femininity, and anything that sounds like that just might be marketing double speak or loaded language to spark controversy.
There are plenty of younger gay man who feel at the mercy of stereotypes and think if they act differently and not-campy, they'll be alone and have no options for companionship. I think all he's trying to do is level the playing field, so to speak.

>>949897
>>949904

I can kind of see where he's coming from, he's challenging that horrible fucking TV stereotype of the common or back garden gay. The fashioniesta who loves decorating, wearing high heels when they can and talking with that fuck annoying lisp instead of just like a human being.

Really I hate how many gay guys I see who've gone down that path because that's what the media told them to do. They're usually pretty young but if they don't lose these insane, media spewed ideas of what it means to love dicks then they grow up to be the kind of guy who thinks the gay pride parade isn't borderline the worst thing to happen to gay rights ever.

>>949909
The book isn't a cult instruction manual
Like with any people of opinionated literature, the reader is expected to dissect it and synthesize their own opinions to apply them to their own lives.I know I won't agree with every one of his arguments but there are things I can take away from the book and it's nice to see a counterpoint.
is what an intelligent person would do, not stand there and swat away different opinions.

>>949883
He's not reinforcing anything. What he's doing is demonizing femininity, which appeals to conservative, masculine gay men who feel insecure with their identity, especially when acknowledging the fact that there are people who exist that are inherently not at all like them and also gay, apparently.

It's stop liking what I don't like: the book.

A lamentation that not every single man in the world is this affected caricature of masculinity that might not even apply to them as an individual.

If you're masculine, great, that's fantastic. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that whatsoever. There is no need to shit on feminine men. None. Especially since they're obviously in sexual demand among gay men, so this hatred really seems to be angsty projection at an inability to get hitched with another dudebro gay, individuals that are also single and readily available in droves to anyone who puts in even a modicum of effort.

This is Where Have All The Good Men Gone for whiny masculine faggots, which hilariously makes them not at all masculine whatsoever.

Oh the ironing.

You know what's really attractive? Bitchy insecurity and inferiority complexes.

>>949924
>All of this victim complex

>>949913
You can't, for a moment, wrap your head around the fact that some men are just like that, can you? It must all be propaganda! A conspiracy! It's the matriarchy!

You have become feminists.

>>949917
Don't take it as an attack. I intend to read this book, despite that it aligns with my own viewpoints. I was just pointing out that stating you're going to buy a book simply because you agree with the views is rather narrow-minded, or at least portrays yourself in that light.

>straight-acting
>self-hating


if you could stop for a second you might see that you using these 2 terms completely validated Jack Donovan analysis.

the only thing straight acting should ever mean is "fucking/dating/staring at the ass/ of someone of opposite sex".

gay is liking same sex, not dressing like fairies.
there is no need of defining gay as a " subculture, a slur, a set of gestures, a slang etc."

sure there is going to be a gay community, maybe even gay bars, and a a different gay courtship rulesets, but as long as being gay will be a lifestyle the gay community willa lways be a cancer in our countries, unable to fully be accepted and integrated in society.

>>949936
You should talk Mr. Masculinity Under Attack.

>>949941

There can be SOME like that but I can count the amount of normal gay people I know on one hand and the amount of media driven faggots on an abacus.

>>949941
Sure, there are also black folks who speak in ebonics, drink malt liquor all day, and eat watermelon. There are likely more black people who reject the stereotype despite it actually applying to some people (as stereotypes invariably do, given a wide enough population).
Women may be happy and healthy housewives, spending their lives raising children and tending to the house. This isn't a problem, but obviously a public view that this should be the norm causes issues.
Stereotypes are damaging, even if they aren't explicitly negative, bar none.

>>949924
>He's not reinforcing anything. What he's doing is demonizing femininity, which appeals to conservative, masculine gay men who feel insecure with their identity, especially when acknowledging the fact that there are people who exist that are inherently not at all like them and also gay, apparently.

It's stop liking what I don't like: the book.

A lamentation that not every single man in the world is this affected caricature of masculinity that might not even apply to them as an individual.
please can you quote the books where this appear evident? because the few lines in the OP clearly aren't demonizing femininity.

they are just stating how being homosexual should be detached by lifestyle and all the stuff that comes with gay subculture.

They're rejecting one crass commercial branding created by women and accepting another crass commercial branding created by men.

Call them "transhills" as opposed to "cishills"

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>>949947
>There can be SOME like that but I can count the amount of normal gay people I know on one hand and the amount of media driven faggots on an abacus.
You are a feminist now. Congratulations.

Any man that falls out of your approval sphere is a "media driven faggot," as you, a faggot, consume media driving you to call these men "media driven faggots." You see nothing wrong, or at all ironic, with this picture whatsoever.

That's hilarious.

>>949946
Are you really this insecure that you can't handle somebody being different from you? People come from all walks of life, this book is a different perspective of the same picture.

It's apparently a picture you see as beautiful and prefect, but for some people it's not. Not everyone likes feminine gays and to a young gay man who doesn't align with that personality or who has an interest in that lifestyle, it can be terrifying and lonely. This book is offering a counterpoint and trying to make the image of the masculine gay man more widely known so that those who act similarly know they aren't alone.

None of this is an attack on femininity, I personally think you need both masculine and feminine people to make society stable. This is just about a different point of you.

>>949955
Read that as 'shillelagh'. Now imagining a scenario wherin shegillah, rather than AIDS, runs rampant amoung the LGBT community.

>>949955
sure is tranny here.

by rejecting the first branding they are let free of accepting anything else.

there is also a big difference between the feminine gay brand and how an average men behaves, as it is partially how a man behaves in a natural enviroment.

>>949955
Nobody is blindly accepting what he has to say and identifying as "androphiles"
An argumentative book should be taken apart and applied in your own life how you need it, not blindly followed.
That's how intelligent people read books anyway. Silencing other's arguments are the opposite of intellectual.

>>949948
Don't strawman with race.

You imply that feminine gay men are something new, and entirely a product of the media, and because you have this view of feminine gay men, you honestly believe they exist BECAUSE of the stereotype, that the stereotypes that exist are not BASED on the popularity of both masculine AND feminine gay men, both of which get their fair play in modern media.

Just because a lot of gay men find feminine men attractive, you blame the media.

Just because you can't find a 3masc5u qt3.14 bf, you blame society, and women, and the media, and "media driven faggots" and not your fucking self for being a naive, hate-filled, and repulsive individual.

>>949978
>Personal attacks? Check
>Aimless emotional outbursts? Check
>Shrill? Check
Go back to the MtF General

>>949983
What? Hit too close to home?

Spare me.

>>949978
>You imply that feminine gay men are something new, and entirely a product of the media
No I don't. That's entirely contrary to what I said. Perhaps you think another poster is me.

>Just because a lot of gay men find feminine men attractive, you blame the media.
No I don't. That's entirely contrary to what I said. Perhaps you think another poster is me.

>Just because you can't find a 3masc5u qt3.14 bf, you blame society, and women, and the media, and "media driven faggots" and not your fucking self for being a naive, hate-filled, and repulsive individual.
Wow. That's a lot of baseless claims and attacking.

Protip: I never said "faggots", and I wasn't a part of that conversation. You may want to ponder the concept of online anonymity, and stop strawmanning yourself, considering you just attacked only points that I never made, and entirely off-base attacks on my person.

>>949978
>Don't strawman with race.
Also, a generalization that is equally applicable is not a strawman. Learn what the phrase means.
Stereotypes are damaging in every single case. They allow a culture and a society to decide what a person should be based on things out of their control, and ostracize the rest.

>>949960

I do see something wrong with this picture.

When I discovered I love penis and not vagina I didn't try and fashion my life into an obssession with curtain colours and making sure my socks match my shirt. I didn't adopt a gay lisp and I didn't start walking like a complete girl or limp wristing at every little thing.

And I don't like the idea that some people are trying hard to be people they aren't. If you're naturally like that then what the fuck ever, whatever makes you happy. But there is a number of people out there who STRIVE to fit that stereotype because they think that's what they're meant to be.

>>949988
Sorry, it's hard to keep track of the sheer deluge of analpained foreveralone conservative masculine gays in this thread.

>>949997
Maybe they'll all hook up and beat off on top of a mountain and then punch some bears or something.

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>>949997
For "forever alone" masculine gays, there sure are a lot of them, aren't there?
For "conservatives", they really seem bent on changing the perspectives of society, don't they?

Your buttpain is palpable.