I've been trying to get some more information about christian stances on the issue of transsexuality. Generally, the people who say that being a transsexual is a sin rely on the presupposition that it is impossible (for instance) for a female spirit/mind to be placed inside a male body. I have not found any source which justifies this presupposition by a religious source.After this, I find that, for those who claim transsexuality is a sin, the scriptures which they cite are not really germane to the question, and only by loose interpretation do they shed light on the situation./LGBT/, do you happen to have any knowledge about christian doctrine concerning transsexuals? And please... Let's keep this thread as scholarly as possible, and avoid referencing raptor jesus.
Had a little chat with some Mormons about it, but I didn't really come away with anything useful.
what's even the point? Who cares about religious nonsense in this day and age other than old fossils and retards from dirt countries?
Mary giving birth to a male called Jesus always sounded sort of like an analogy for the FTM experience. Remember, in Utero, we are female first, then some of us become male...(for the record I am starting to question the idea that Jesus even ever existed..I have doubts)
>>1062412*giving birth without the help of a mate btw...
>>1062389 (OP)>God gives us trials, not blatant confusion as that would create.Yeah, hate to break it to you Kellie...
It's been a while since I encountered any opposition (I'm pretty much stealth by omission) but what I remember is...Most "justifications" for calling it a sin either rely on scripture referring to homosexuals (which you could technically skirt by being, say, a mtf trans lesbian depending on how they view it)Other than that, it's not explicitly mentioned anywhere that I know of. There is the notion that "god made you that way for a reason, you're tampering with it" but that assumes that god is flawless and never makes mistakes - which hermaphrodites and pretty much all of Africa contradict directly.I'm Atheist, but you're not going to find any logical oppositions from religious folks on this topic. Either it's "god made you that way and that settles it" (despite scientific evidence) or "if you sex guys, it's a sin, if you sex girls its not"I suppose in theory since we become sterile they could argue that we're not being fruitful or some such bullshit, but its grasping at straws by that point.
>>1062398Everyone always runs away from the AIS question.Everyone.
>>1062435Abrahamic religion wrote transgender out of existence in order to drive out regional Semitic religions following the diaspora, a few of which had transgender (obviously not called that then) priestesses. It was part of a massive propaganda campaign to solidify Iron Age Israeli nationalism so as to never be scattered or driven from their homeland again.What was a minor footnote of "oh, yeah, ban that too" is now this huge religious debate thousands of years later.It's kinda funny watching it all. It's like people arguing over ancient fanfiction of the original propaganda.
>>1062451It is so fascinating how all these things are being uncovered these days. PEOPLE HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT THE TRUTH.
>>1062435deuteronomy 23:1>He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD.Of course, we share company with women on their period, cripples, dwarfs, and lepers in our being barred from Church grounds.>>1062436AIS question?
There is one scripture (I forget which) that mentions transgender anything that I know of."Men shall not wear the clothes that belong to women, and women shall not wear the clothes that belong to men."You know, cause God doesn't want his people crossdressing. Obviously this is one of those "God didn't write it, just some guy's opinion" and no longer applies.
As a christian myself, I imagine God in his omnipotence and wisdom could have made me whatever gender he wanted, and I don't think he would make a mistake. I can't find any Biblical text to indicate otherwise.
You're already playing pretend, why not make up your own rules?
>>1062461>God didn't write it, just some guy's opinionthis is never the case sorry. unless of course you aren't a christian, then it's always the case lel
>>1062464
Ok I am going to preface this with that I am not speaking for anyone but my own opinion and understanding. I am mormon myself and you can take our belief on this matter for what it is. We believe that people were spirits before we lived on earth and had gender set then. And the desires and such that we have in this life is part of the trials that we go through.
>>1062465Of course I'm not Christian. Their actual logic is just "That law was for that time, but time's are different now." Which, most of the laws in the Bible are considered nowadays.
>>1062457>It is so fascinating how all these things are being uncovered these days. PEOPLE HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT THE TRUTH.This isn't information that's just being uncovered in the least. It's goddamn history. Shit's in the scripture itself, banning the rites and rituals used to worship other gods, from permanent bodily markings to wearing the clothes of the other gender.How about you try reading the bible this time, instead of hitting people with it.
>>1062463>I imagine>I can't find any Biblical text to indicate otherwise.So that's how religion works then?
>>1062476Hit? You idiot. I'm not a christian nor will I ever become one, or read the bible. I was just pointing out how religious people have no idea about their own belief history.
>>1062482Or maybe there is a lot of other facts that you know nothing of that make your claims moot.
>>1062493YOU'RE OBVIOUSLY HIGH ON SOMETHING. YOU KEEP ON THINKING I'M SOME JESUS FREAK AND THAT I'M OUT TO GET YOU WITH MY "CLAIMS".
>>1062482A lot of Christians haven't actually read the Bible. They just listen to whatever their pastor says and only focus on the moral of the story and not the story itself. From the pastors I've had, most skip over the parts that put their God in a bad light. However, I've met just the same amount of Atheists who haven't read it either and make up stuff about it. Both sides are generally shit on the topic, which is why I just say I don't know and I don't care.
>>1062480I imagine is a figure of speech. Based on what I know about God I believe he could have made me whatever gender he wanted and I see nothing in the Bible to indicate otherwise. Stop being euphoric.
>>1062469The sheer amount of butthurt it took to not only make this picture, but post it online in a conversation and mean it...My sides.
Well here is a fun story a lot of people ignore. In luke 22 Jesus tell his Apostles to buy some swords. Why? Normal Christians never even noticed that part of the chapter or know anything about it. Fun fact.
>>1062504I was raised Catholic and I left the faith behind when I was younger and naive. When I became older, I figured I'd try to read the whole bible anyway, just to see what was in it, and not just the selections picked out for religion class.It was so much worse than I thought it ever was and I am so glad I was an edgy little shit, or else I might have let myself be raised into this garbage.
>>1062512They're peace swords. They were symbolic to represent how even though they had swords, and believed in God, and were ready to kill, they wouldn't, because the peace swords would stop them.So spake Jeebus.
>christian stances on the issue of transsexuality.Joan of Arc, famous historical figure, condemned and considered a sinner, burned at the stake. I believe her biggest sin, the one the church executed her for, was for wearing male clothing. They had other reasons of course, but that was the stated reason for their action. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, it's been awhile since I've Joan of Arc anything. But basically, yes, religion frowns upon trying to be the other gender. It always has.
>>1062512Luke was written to have Jesus appeal to the Greek stoics.
>>1062530You could argue that just applies to women becoming men though. During those times women were treated as lessers, and for one to step out of their place like that was considered a sin. A man becoming a woman during those times would have just been seen as a delusional freak for wanting to be the inferior sex.
>>1062530>England's ass whooped by a FtMhuehuehue
>>1062538Isn't it great that we've advanced so far past such archaic thinking?
>>1062530>religionYou mean Abrahamism.
>>1062538The church has always been about maintaining a norm. Men in dresses were never a norm for Christianity. If they were, you'd have a lot of accounts of where it was a norm. This goes beyond men vs women.Unless you want to count men in robes as men in dresses.
>>1062538Alright, I googled this just for you.Deuteronomy 22:5 The woman shall not wear that which pertains to a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination to the LORD your God.I guess that answers OPs question too. Since your biological sex kind of determines everything by bible standards.
>>1062625Deuteronomy also states that that it's okay to have multiple wives and that it's wrong to wear clothing with mixed fabrics. On top of this, Jesus became the sacrifice to atone for that stuff. I am a Trans girl. I have been taught that God looks at the heart. This to me says, It doesn't matter if you are male, female, intersex, or Trans. God is cares about you.
>>1062544I'd say we're not entirely beyond it yet, but it is much better than it was back then.>>1062593French fashion is a good example of how that law is silly. What men wear now are what women wore then and vice versa. Of course it's been about maintaining a norm, but at the same time during the times of Jesus most everyone wore the same clothes: a robe with sandals. There wasn't much differences in fashion at the time. You could argue ceremonial outfits had gender associations, like a priest robe.>>1062625Yeah, but Deuteronomy like >>1062739 said is pretty much ignored and is only there for the moral of the stories, but doesn't apply today. If Deuteronomy was factored in, then everyone is pretty much going to hell because we just fucked up this planet so much. In fact, I'd even argue during those times no one really followed Deuteronomy. It's like, the extremist of the book in terms of laws.At any rate, all of this doesn't matter in the end. No matter the denomination, if you're a Christian, it's as simple as believing Jesus died for your sins and you're good to go into heaven. If I recall, the ultimate sin that which cannot be forgiven is if you deny your faith in God to save your own life.
>>1062625Not necessarily though,Samuel 16:7 But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The Lord does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.”Suggests you can try and hide your 'heart' (inner feelings/ gender identity) but God will still see it.Tenuous i know but what about the bible isn't tenuous links and contradictions.Never mind that the new covenant of Jesus was meant to overwrite the old covenant in leviticus etc.
Christians don't believe that someone could possibly be "born in the wrong body" because God doesn't make mistakes. Also, they just pull quotes from the Old Testament to substantiate their claim that its sinful or lump you guys in with homosexuals and use the verses from Romans, Corinthians and Timothy to support their claims. I'd say convert to Islam. They're cool with transgendered people even if they don't like gays.
>>1062867Only straight trans people though obviously.
>>1062867I thought Islam only likes MtF, err doesn't mind them, but hates FtM. I could be wrong though, as I know next to nothing about Islam and only that they encourage gay men to become women as a cure to their homosexuality.
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