Does anyone have any good comebacks when other LGBTs pull the "defining yourself by your sexuality" or "shoving it down people's throat" shit? It happens on here often enough but I'm imagining not everyone thinks that way.I'm not the biggest fan of Pride events generally but I really dislike when these arguments are used against them, because of what it implies about the people involved, and nobody even realises how insulting their being or that there are other avenues or The general conservative mentality of "I just want to get on with my life" ignores the fact that many people can't. I think a lot of people don't realise how alienating it can be towards those who aren't fortunate enough to be able to say that.
if you have to define yourself, define yourself by whatever interests you haveLGBT isn't a thing you are, it's a thing you do, because you're compelled to it for whatever reasonpride events aren't annoying until they start bringing megaphones
>>737875I don't see how attending Pride or displaying any trace of your identity means you're "defining" yourself by being LGBT. There are tons of things you can define yourself by. Many straight cisgendered people have a strong sexual identity, anyway.I see the idea of gay culture being problematic as a popular view point here but I don't think it really holds up under scrutiny, partly because I don't think gay culture is that monolithic.This is coming from someone who isn't really big into pride or gay bars.
>>737889participating in a public event does define you to many people, and to some people, the knowledge that you have participated in a pride event is all they really need to know about you."identity" = "definition of oneself", otherwise, identity is nonsensical
Good comeback: Accepting the criticism and being less of an attention.But then again, you're a tripnamefag--you wouldn't understand the concept of not being an attention whore.
Wearing a wedding ring, being called Mrs., having pictures of your husband/wife/kids on your desk etc. are all ways of showing your sexuality. But they're so ubiquitous they're not even noticed by most people.
>>737853 (OP)"huh? you're the one that just pointed this out, not me."
>mfw 90% of this thread entirely miss the point of LGBT.
>>737853 (OP)most of the motivation for what we do comes from the desire to find someone to shag. sexuality is one of the most important facets of one's identity.
When a Person of Normalcy tells you that you're behaving like a ridiculous attention-whoring freak, or that you're making an unnecessarily big deal out of your sexuality and/or gender identity, the correct response is to defer to them, since they know more about normal behavior than you do since they live with it daily, listen to them, and check your deviancy.
>>737898It doesn't define everything about you though any more than marching in a Paddy's day parade means you're nothing but Irish.It's a completely irrational argument that's become far too widely accepted.You can be openly gay and be other things. You can be openly trans and still be a man/woman. Not everyone might see it this way, but that's the end goal we should be pushing towards.You can also choose not to take part or associate with Pride without implying something about everyone who does.
>>737917>>737921These. Let them know that every time they mention their opposite-sex partner, or their desire to date one, that they are doing the same with their heterosexuality. Every time they ask someone why they aren't married yet (common in adults, especially from family members, they are pushing it down your throat.
>>737898>participating in a public event does define you to many peopleIt may define a part of you, but it would be ridiculous to assume that every event you attend "defines" you. Plus, even within pride events there's a huge amount of diversity of interests, hobbies, etc. of the people that are there - there's meet-ups for gay and trans friendly adult sports teams/clubs, motorcycle clubs, political action groups, etc.
>>737853 (OP)>Does anyone have any good comebacks when other LGBTs pull the "defining yourself by your sexuality">Asked by 'Crystal Princess', tripfag, attentionwhore and known SRS member. You personally do define yourself by your sexuality and shove it down other peoples throats. When lgbt finally becomes unremarkably mainstream you'l find something else to be a special snowflake about.
>>737940>>737968"Define" is something which only has an outwards effect, it's nothing but a presentation. If the only time someone ever sees or hears you is in a gay pride parade, if he is required to make a guess about your personality & behavior in general, he will have a certain set of assumptions (based off stereotypes).On the other hand, if you have known someone for five years, you know a lot more about that person, and you're far less likely to base your judgments about that person's character on his participation in an event.
>>737908So that viewpoint in turn can't be criticised? There are an awful lot of flaws in it.>>737982>known SRS member.No.
I think I'm just generally fed up with LGBTs pissing on other LGBTs in order to gain acceptance, when those were the ones that gained them their rights in the first place.A similar argument comes up against lesbian radfems when they shit on transwomen, Stonewall etc.
>>738014Well I'm tired of those other LGBTs parading around behaving like deranged, depraved, morally bankrupt sideshow freaks, leading the rest of the world to believe that this is what gay people are actually like.
>>738035lol
>>738035>morally bankruptThat's what I'd define those who sell out their own kind to get ahead.There's nothing inherently amoral about things that don't hurt others. While certain displays may be offputting for you, it doesn't make them "wrong" and if you don't like being represented by them, represent yourself.I suspect most people who say this shit have never been to a pride festival anyway.
Yeah no anyone who shoves anything down anyone's throat is a fucking asshat. If you don't believe so then cry some more. There's plenty of good pride parades with just regular people who happen to be gay/lesbian/whatever and that's fine but if you're entire life revolves around that and you've constantly got to talk about it then go back to High School where people give a fuck. Not everything is as black and white as you believe it to be.
>>738014>I think I'm just generally fed up with LGBTs pissing on other LGBTs in order to gain acceptanceJust because you are LGBT doesn't mean you can act however you want free from being socially shamed when you act like an idiot.When straight people AND LGBT people are saying you are being an annoying attentionwhore maybe you should consider the possibility that that's what you are.
>>738014>when those were the ones that gained them their rights in the first placeWhile I agree that the movement has done immense good in drawing to public attention the problem of discrimination against gay people. However, it is a fact that, as long as homosexuals distinguish themselves from the rest of society, they won't be fully accepted as themselves. Most people who want to be normal, seeing this, are frustrated by the pride movement. This does not justify those who deride the pride movement, making sweeping claims about them. However, making sweeping claims about those LGBT against pride, claiming they are all espousing harmful rhetoric is just as unjustified.
>>738075it's not queers' job to fit in and be indistinguishable if that means denying their identity.>if you aren't straight white cis and middle class then you have to act like you are otherwise you won't get any rights>not 1950's alabama logic
>>738048>That's what I'd define those who sell out their own kind to get ahead>Implying trannies, self-proclaimed "queers", femmes, drag queens, lesbians, and special snowflake tumblrcunts are "my kind"
>>738174roy cohn is that you
>>738149>if you aren't straight white cis and middle class then you have to act like you are otherwise you won't get any rightsYou already have the right to walk around led on a leash, half naked in a rainbow coloured clown costume. You don't have the right to do that without criticism, nor do you deserve that right.
>>738181Roy Cohn died in 1986.
>>738174They are whether you like to accept it or not. If it wasn't for them, you wouldn't be accepted either. There was never a point in history where people only disliked homosexuals because of that group.>>738224How many people at Pride do this? And again, if there's nothing inherently wrong with it I don't see the need for this.
>>738251>If it wasn't for them, you wouldn't be accepted either.Provide evidence of this assertion.
>>738251being a special snowflake is actually something a lot of straight people are into. You should ally with them for recognition and leave the actual work in LGBT rights to us
>>738251>They are whether you like to accept it or not.No, no they're really not. I do not support them, I do not associate with them, I don't even identify as a member of any FLQT*PPBIAAQQNZLELG community.>If it wasn't for them, you wouldn't be accepted either.Evidence, please.>inb4 MUH STONEWALL
I started typing up a serious response and then stopped myself. You can't trick me /transdrama/. I won't be sucked in by the cancerous trolling.> i cannot b tricked
>>738328>inb4 MUH STONEWALLso you already know, and are just acting like an ass.
>>738149>it's not queers' job to fit in and be indistinguishable if that means denying their identity.There are two faults with this statement which do not make it an effective refutation of my own. The first being the assumption that I advocated, or even described an advocation, for making gay people fit in. What I described was for gay people to be distinguished only by the traits they choose to, For some, this includes being gay. For others, it does not. The pride movement, by placing a distinguishing barrier between LGBT people and everyone else, it effectively forces people to choose sides based solely on their sexuality. If you're gay, you are assumed to support the pride movement and all the wild "self-expression" that it entails, even if you don't.The second error was in the assumption that the argument support the denial of one's identity. Again, I emphasized the importance of identity, not the denial of it. Many gay people feel that being gay is simply not a significant part of their identity. Therefore, why should a movement exist which makes being gay part of one's social identity? You may wish to act wild and crazy, but you alienate those who just wish to sit around at home and watch telly while having some tea, working 9-5 with some finance corporation during the week. To them, being gay is a fact. By associating homosexuality with protest and sexual deviance, you are unfairly associating them with that as well, be it intentional or not. I'm not trying to say that all pride parades are bad, or that all those who identify as gay are immoral deviants. I don't deny the movement has done good and continues to help people; I just wish to point out, for common acceptance, that there is utilitarian harm being done by the movement as well, and people have a justified reason to be upset about it.
>>738328Putting "Muh" in front of something doesn't automatically invalidate it. It clearly shows that at least at some point in history, aggressive and loud action was necessary to forward a human rights cause.
>>738445This is one of the few times I've seen an opinion on it I disagree with somewhat but can respect since it doesn't reek of the same "but I'm one of the good gays" that 90% of the anti-pride arguments do.But I think you'd be better served to examine and lay out the utilitarian harm you believe is being done.
>>738445You don't think marriage between two guys is valid. You actively oppose it and support organizations which actively discriminate. You also provide hours upon hours of pathetic excuses and rationalizations for your behavior.What in the fuck makes you think we care what points you have to make?Furthermore, why are you still here?(Note: I agree with what you're saying in this post)
>>738527You too, tripfag. Don't you have a pride rally to attend somewhere? Haven't you caused enough suffering here?
>>738552>Furthermore, why are you still here?Because I'm bored and I broke a wire in the LCD screen I was planning on using today. I attempted to recover it, and melted the header irreparably. Frustrated and looking to blow off steam, I came here. I spend a lot of time here. However, when I'm not expecting to get in a row over a matter, I remain anonymous. I'm sorry if the only experience you've had with me has been negative, but I ask you not to judge me based on one position I hold. but, if you choose to continue your negative perception of me, there's nothing for me to say about that. >(Note: I agree with what you're saying in this post)Clearly we are /capable/ of getting along. I just imagine that the one issue with Catholicism was a little too emotional for us all. I will attempt to avoid such topics in the future.
>>738450MUH LOGIC
Funny how PotC ignores any valid criticism and goes for obvious troll comments. Typical of a tumblr feminist.
>>738445>The pride movement, by placing a distinguishing barrier between LGBT people and everyone elsesaid the Roman Catholic.
>>738450>It clearly shows that at least at some point in history, aggressive and loud action was necessary to forward a human rights cause.The Stonewall riots were irrelevant, they galvanised the gbt community into acting politically, they didn't change the opinions of any straight person. Once the community started campaigning things quickly fell into place. We ditched the drag queens and pedos by the wayside because they undermined our cause and began lobbying for legal changes. The riots did nothing, it was the lobbying which granted queer rights.
>>738527>examine and lay out the utilitarian harm you believe is being done.Well it's nothing too severe. Just social issues. Pressure to express one's personality not as one desires or would choose, but according to the conventions publicized about the LGBT movement. The effect of which is the encouragement that LGBT people behave according to their stereotypes, both to ease identification and to fit in within the community. Instead of finding a healthy, individual identity and form of expression thereof, one falls back on a trope, and doesn't develop one's own identity, which can cause unhappiness if someone just isn't that type of person.A form of exclusion from the gay community, for not being perceived as "gay" enough, both internalized and external. This can lead to a person feeling isolated: accepted by neither the LGBT community nor the mainstream.As well, the continued perception of gays as sexual deviants, which is harmful to the social acceptance of gays as a whole. Like I said, it's certainly nothing to justify name-calling or bullying, but issues deserving of recognition and addressing all the same.
>>738445>is practicing Catholic>doesn't approve of gay marriage on the grounds of muh traditional natural religious marriage>talks about LGBT placing a distinguishing barrier between LGBT people and everyone elseOh the ironing.
>>738669>said the Roman Catholic.Inferring by your statement, I assume there is irony in me saying that statement, but I am unaware of where that irony lies. Could you point it out to me? I'm curious, and may even be amused by it myself.
>>738694>is practicing CatholicWhile it might not be an unreasonable assumption to conclude I am a practicing Catholic because I defended the Church staunchly, I assure you I am far from a priest. Please do not judge me on assumption.
>>738697You adhere to a Hebrew-based religion that intrinsically separates homosexuals, bisexuals, and transgender people from the rest of society due to latent theocratic propaganda from the Iron Age. Yet you somehow feel it pertinent to complain when people who are LGBT acknowledge this division and try to fight for equal rights in a society that has been brainwashed to hate them for millenia by iterations of your religion.But somehow, you're still able to maintain this obnoxious veneer of selective ignorance when confronted with this, like most staunch followers of Abrahamic religion.This makes it ironic that you admonish LGBT against "separating themselves" from society, when it is your religion that did the separating, and continues to do the separating.
>>738716Are you or are you not a practicing Catholic, "Roman Catholic Boi"?
>>738740There are plenty of Christian and Jewish sects which actively support LGBT equality. Hell, even the Mormon church is slowly coming around to the idea, dropping their support for the Scouts ban unequivocally and their president apologizing publicly for Prop8. Don't lump Catholicism in with the rest of them.
>>738740I see. While I would like to respond to this, I feel I cannot justify going so off-topic. My apologies for drawing you this far and not bringing our interaction to a climax (the last guy I was with accused me of the same slight [that's a sophisticated way of saying "that's what he said!" ;) ]), but I really must not contribute to this segue.
>>738751See >>738755And, as for people on this site...only I know for certain what I practice ;)
>>738754>There are plenty of Christian and Jewish sects which actively support LGBT equality.Then they go against their own basic scripture. The Abrahamic religions are inherently incompatible with LGBT and only those who knowingly suspend (or are ignorant of) the actual substance of their religious texts can support LGBT wholeheartedly while maintaining said faith.It's about this time that you see why the traditionalists and the staunch religious types say that LGBT is perverting their religion, because technically it is. They're supposed to hate us, and kill us, as enumerated by the laws they claim their God provided them with. Society cannot both adhere to this religion and allow LGBT people to prosper with equality when the very foundation of these religious sects are sexual "purity" as defined through the practice of heterosexuality for the purpose of reproduction.Unless we all admit that these modern iterations have diluted to the point where they don't even follow core Abrahamic principles anymore, in which case they're no longer Abrahamic religions, but independent cults in and of themselves. In that case, what the hell are they doing calling themselves Christians and reading from the same outdated scripture that they're simultaneously denying?How does one deal with such cognitive dissonance?>>738755>>738764So you won't respond to avoid the comment and are now playing coy about the fact that you're a practicing Roman Catholic. How utterly unsurprising.
>>738841>>738754DON'T RESPOND! IT'S A TRAP!
>>738856What a coward.
I have to ask, PotC, why do you still use your trip? It just leaves you open to people ignoring your points because they don't like you. Saging because my post is off-topic.
Towards the end of the discussion that triggered this, one of the lesbians started claiming that Pride is bad because of how they attack straight people and religious people, calling them "scum"./pol/bians.>>738643Umm, this was my last reply to this thread:>>738527
>>738870I think the people that do aren't really worth having a real discussion with anyway tbh.
>>738225No he didn't. Secret Jew plot.
>>738841It's all in the interpretation. Every reference in the New Testament to homosexuality is in the context of hedonism and debauchery, not in terms of romantic love between two same-gender persons.Go ahead and hate my religion like an angsty fifteen-year-old who just got done reading Dawkins and thinks he knows everything about how best to run the world, just don't fool yourself into thinking I'm any less supportive of LGBT rights than you are, or try to claim I'm not Christian as a result (see Matthew 18:20).
>>738445>If you're gay, you are assumed to support the pride movement and all the wild "self-expression" that it entails, even if you don't.You make this sound like it's some horrible thing for gay people to think being gay is alright. That's all the pride movement is. It's going out and being like "hey I'm gay and it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks about it; I'm going to continue being fine about being gay". That's it. That's about as wild a sort of self expression as someone deciding they want to try out Thai food. Also being gay is a part of your identity if you're gay. Just as being white is a part of your identity if you're white. Or having brown hair is a part of your identity if you have brown hair. I really hope you're not gay yourself because that'd be kinda pathetic with how self loathing you'd have to be then to have this hard a time with people wanting to be open about who they are.
>>739093He's a closeted self-loather who is trying to stay chaste to please his congregation (who more-or-less openly despise him too, whether or not he's sexually active).He takes his frustration out on us under the paper-thin guise of 'encouraging debate' on whether or not the Catholic Church holds the moral high ground for pouring millions in pew donations into Prop8-style campaigns, paying guys to harass adopted children of same-sex couples on YouTube, appointing bishops, archbishops, cardinals and even popes who claim homosexuality is harmful to children and society and same-sex marriage is Satanic and all other manner of hateful crap, firing employees of their schools, hospitals, social services administrations and other people who get outed, among other crimes against humanity.
>>739132Has he actually said he's in the closet? And even for the church he goes to? That honestly just seems a bit sad. Just makes me think of those kids sent to those straight camps so pray away the gay before they kill themselves.
>nobody even realises how insulting their being>theirTHEY'REEhum.. well op I find people often say "I'm okay with gays as long as they don't shove it in my face" which really means "I want gays to act straight around me", not in all causes of course as some people are generally just being loud and annoying but I feel most straights actually mean the first one. So perhaps a some what good reply is "I don't mind straights, as long as they act gay and don't shove their heterosexuality in my face"?
>>739093>That's all the pride movement isRegardless whether or not that's what the pride movement /really is/ about, there are gay people who do not feel they are a part of it. As well, regardless of however much being gay really is a part of them, there are gay people who do not feel it is as significant a part as the pride movement effectively presents it as being. To these people, the movement causes harm. How you deal with these people (or ignore them) is your prerogative, and not probably relevant to me. Like I said, I merely aimed to adequately and rationally present another perspective on the issue than was listed by OP.
>>739179>>739132 is speculating about me. He's permitted to do so. Please ignore it though, he has no rational basis for his claims.
>This thread againLGBT people are allowed to like and not like thingsIf an LGBT person doesn't like pride parades, you know what you do? YOU FUCKING DON'T DO ANYTHING BECAUSE THAT'S THEY'RE OPINION. If you're trying to tell someone that they have to like something or approve of something to be part of the community, you're an ass. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.
>>739239This I agree with.
>>738921>I don't turn off my trip because I'm a massive attention whoring idiot. Go back to Reddit Crystal 'Princess'.
>>739239Except that's not the point of the thread. It's when they make out people who DO like them out to be something negative.
>>739309and how does that bug you? If the whole point of "pride" is not caring about what others think, why care about people who don't approve?
>>739297Tripfags aren't the only attention whores on 4chan.
>>739320Namefags are attention whores too
>>739309>It's when they make out people who DO like them out to be something negative.Not really.Going to a parade is fine, going to a parade in pink assless chaps is wrong. Mentioning that you are gay and have a boyfriend is fine, reminding people you are gay and bring lgbt issues into every conversation is wrong. There are plenty of people in the lgbt community who really do become obnoxious, define themselves by their sexuality and shove it downs peoples throats.And just to reiterate you are a dick and you need to fuck off back to your Shit Reddit Says hugbox.
>>739320There are also the camwhores, but if we don't include them, then yeah they're the only attention whores as you can't gain any attention if people don't have anything to associate with you other than the statements made in a single post. That someone would try using a trip means they want to build some reputation or be known, that is attention whoring especially when done on a site on which most people post anonymously. The glorious thing about people posting anonymously is that it makes every post have to stand on its own, using a trip goes against that as people will instead associate some persona that has been built up over time with the post thus changing how it is interpreted. If you were comfortable with having a discussion and weren't wanting to attention whore, then you wouldn't use a trip.
>>739318>If the whole point of "pride" is not caring about what others think, why care about people who don't approve?The point of pride events is to not be ashamed of who you are, so people not approving of that really end up seeming like jackasses.
>>739331>>739341>>739345Hivemind.I think one of the problems /lgbt/ has is that many of it's users only came to 4chan when the board was set up. They never lurked, never bothered to learn any chan culture and never bother posting on any board other than /lgbt/.
>>737853 (OP)>The general conservative mentality of "I just want to get on with my life" ignores the fact that many people can't.I'm not following that here, it seems like a lot of the gay rights lobby is that people want to just get on with their lives without the government telling them no. Things like same-sex marriage is like that. Why wouldn't people just be able to get on with their lives?
>>739377Nearly every board deals with some of this crap, mostly cause attention whores love to attention whore.
>>738679>The Stonewall riots were irrelevantfacepalm, according to some interviews of the people involved it was the case of "everyone" knowing that being put down for being gay/whatever was wrong and we should stop tolerating it - instead of running from the police it was the police running from them! This practically started political movement/lobbying by actually gaining a lot of movement.
>>739396This is a good point. However, I think OP was talking about people who feel they must express their sexuality openly and boldly. For personal acceptance, or whatever, I do not know.
>>739318I'm not the one who said that. I do care about what others think if their attitudes alienate me from certain groups. It happened in the convention/otaku scene here where I live.
>>739398>Nearly every board deals with some of this crap, mostly cause attention whores love to attention whore.It's worse here though.Pool's open due to social justice bullshit.
>>739407>according to some interviews of the people involvedLiberal white washing of history. Exactly the same way that liberals try to claim that the civil rights 'marches' achieved anything. The reason this meme is pushed so much is because it is dramatic and sounds cool. The reality is social change takes actual organisation, political lobbying and legal action.
>>739419If you can't change people's opinions, then that leaves you with two options- change yourself, or get the hell out of dodge. Rules of nature, right there. No use screaming at people who have made up their minds.
>>739453>The reality is social change takes actual organisation, political lobbying and legal action.For long-term great change, yes. However, certain moments can galvanize people into forming these organizations. The argument is that the Stonewall Riot was one of these moments.
>>739341>Going to a parade is fine, going to a parade in pink assless chaps is wrong.Why?
A new survey shows that over 90% of LGBT Americans are more satisfied with their treatment and social tolerance today than ten years ago. I see this more as a 'mission accomplished' signal, with federal recognition of same-sex marriage (i.e., full repeal of DOMA for being unconstitutional and discriminatory) being one of the final political accomplishments.That leaves me wondering if the 'pride' activists, rallies, advocacy groups like HRC, GSA groups on campuses and high schools, and other assorted political / support groups will eventually go the way of NOW, NAACP, the NRA and so on; i.e., lobbies which have largely served their purpose long ago and now are mostly zealously looking for things to bitch about.I for one hope that pride parades and red-equal sign Facebook images and rainbow flags and other such things eventually become relics of a forgotten era when LGBT persons were seen as child-corrupting hedonistic scum. Growing up toward the end of it all, I think the fight toward equality was a bit too easy, honestly. The older generation might have had the Lavender Scare to contend with, sure, but we never had to stand up to police blasting us with hoses and chasing us down with German shepherds. But personally, I just find the idea of waving flags and trouncing sexuality as identity a bit too self-exclusionary, like we're being split up by marketers in order to buy into and worship our own artificially created self-image.Also I think PotC is a massive attention whore and that Rcboi really, really, really needs to reexamine his life and ask himself how he ended up trolling 4chan /lgbt/.
>>739352So if you're not ashamed, why do you care about people's approval?>>739453>Implying violence is not a legitimate means of political activismThat's liberal white-washing in itself- why do you think liberals are against guns and militias?
>>739453yes, because talking about "Liberal" conspiracies on an lgbt board sounds like a good contribution to discussion.
>>739492Liberal white-washing is a legit thing though, as is conservative white-washing and all kinds of historical revisionism. Learn2memetics.
>>739485>Implying violence is not a legitimate means of political activismMaybe for third-world countries like Lybia, Egypt and Syria, perhaps, but here in the US all violence ever really does is get your entire manifesto or cause or whatever else associated with terrorism, e.g. Brevik, the Boston bombings, Oklahoma City, the murder of George Tiller, the Atlanta Olympics bombing, the Animal Liberation Front, or any other incident of politically-motivated violence.Hell, even the threat of violence is enough to demonize your entire political group or affiliation these days. Say what you will about the FRC, but I gained a fair bit of respect for them (they now rank somewhere between NAMBLA and the KKK) over their handling of some crazy asshole storming their compound with a loaded gun and a giant cache of Chic-fil-a sandwiches.
>>739492>"Liberal" conspiracies on an lgbt board sounds like a good contribution to discussion.1. It isn't a conspiracy, they don't have to conspire to hide the facts because no one cares enough to look beyond the simplified version they are told happened.2. Not every queer person is 'liberal'. And I use the quotation marks because modern liberals are every bit as biased and closed minded as a right wing nut job, they just have a different set of biases and ideologies.
>>739522Perhaps you forget that not all violence is about killing. Violence is just an expression of intense anger and unrest. In a protest, it is a very useful -- and sometimes required -- means of drawing attention to a social issue.
>>739538>Perhaps you forget that not all violence is about killing. Violence is just an expression of intense anger and unrest. In a protest, it is a very useful -- and sometimes required -- means of drawing attention to a social issue.Violence is only useful in achieving political goals if it the prelude to full scale warfare. In any other circumstances it is actively harmful to a moment. That's the reason under cover cops are always encouraging protesters to become more violent in protests.
>>739522So in other words, you get my point. Liberal white-washing has demonized violent political actions by calling them "acts of terror". If you look at a lot of those "terrorist" actions (Breivik and OKC come to mind, as does Chris Dorner) you can see that they have legitimate grievances.
>>739532>2. Not every queer person is 'liberal'. And I use the quotation marks because modern liberals are every bit as biased and closed minded as a right wing nut job, they just have a different set of biases and ideologies.False equivalence.I'm aware not every queer person is "Liberal". I just find the ones that are conservative tend to be somewhat self loathing and cling to a lot of contradictory arguments.
Good comebacks? You're essentially asking for a formulated argument against an opinion. Don't you have the brain power to generate one yourself? And even if you did, do you not see how pointless it is to try and criticise someone's OPINION?Boo-fucking-hoo, some homosexual and transgender people choose to live their life by encroaching on others, and some choose to dedicate their life to communicating with only like minded people, that's not your problem, that's not anyone's problem but theirs. I don't see why an LGBT board has such a fucking difficult time coming to terms with the fact that people are allowed to have different views on the world and still treat each other respectfully.
>>739555Because violence is historically demonized by the people in power who fear the power the masses could wield if they chose to became violent. Why do you think we're afraid of other nations going nuclear? It's a hell of a lot harder to push around someone packing an bomb.
>>739569Well, looking at the thread, it's the same three tripfags (myself included) who get involved in these things. So I'm hiding this just so I can go to a late dinner.
>>739555>Violence is only useful in achieving political goals if it the prelude to full scale warfareThis is certainly true to an extent. When violent demonstrations go too far, people start demonizing the protesters. However, one way or another, people get talking about the violence. If the violence is kept in check, the position in public discourse can be more advantageous to the movement than the bad publicity.
>>739538Again, lighting yourself on fire might be enough to spark the Arab Spring if you live in Morocco, and burning buildings and sparking riots works in some portions of France and Turkey, but here in the US all violent protests do is get reported by the opposition. See >>739555>>739560>defending Brevik, Dorner and McVeigh or implying they had even close to 'legitimate grievances'Back to /pol/, stormfag>>739562I know plenty of gay people who oppose Obama on many levels, specifically the national healthcare overhaul, the handling of foreign policy and his economic policy. They certainly don't hate themselves. I'm not all that thrilled about voting a guy into the White House on a platform of reversing the overreach of the Patriot Act only to betray us by defending a program which conducts unrestrained surveillance on basically every cell phone in the country, and I'm very much against his tax and energy policy. The only people I really loathe in this thread are the name/tripfags.
>>739562>I just find the ones that are conservative tend to be somewhat self loathing and cling to a lot of contradictory arguments.Bullshit strawman argument.1. The world does not divide into liberal or conservative. Many people who are not modern liberals are not conservatives either. 2. You have no evidence to back up your anecdotal claim that lgbt people who are conservative are self loathing or contradictory. And because you are a tripfag and have been shitting up /lgbt/ with your presence since the board was created I know you are a feminist social justice wanker who hates everyone who doesn't agree with your extremist views, so you are just projecting.
>>739569>people are allowed to have different views on the world and still treat each other respectfully.The hard part is that it's just so irresistible to be disrespectful. For example, I recently saw a post by a guy who talked about how we should respect each other, while, simultaneously, mocking the people he was talking to. I'm sure he just didn't realize the irony, but that just goes to show you that it's difficult to avoid being excessively rude when you're trying to get your point across.
>>739575>Because violence is historically demonized by the people in power who fear the power the masses could wield if they chose to became violent.Agreed. But the /lgbt/ movement will NEVER become large enough to win any violent conflict due to demographics. So escalating to violence will always be counter productive for us.
>>739638The other real problem with violence is that gay / trans people tend to be prone to depression and suicide already. That's why I really don't understand the 'gays with guns don't get bashed' NRA bullshit that occasionally gets spewed here.
>>739630If you take things people say on the internet, let alone an anonymous image board to heart, then we have very different fucking definitions of respectful. I'm a rude cunt to "WE'RE QUEER WE'RE HERE GET USED TO IT" homos and demi-pan-trans special snowflakes on here, I am respectful in the real world where it actually counts for anything. Respect isn't required on here.
>>739604Since when did "Obama" and "Liberal" mean the same thing?We're talking about being socially liberal here, since LGBT rights are a social issue. I don't believe libertarians are as socially liberal as they claim though.>>739616Liberal and conservative when it comes to social issues are general dispositions. They are not referring to particular political parties. > I know you are a feminist social justice wanker who hates everyone who doesn't agree with your extremist views, so you are just projecting.What part of my views are "extremist"? Talk about bullshit strawman argument.
>>739569>Good comebacks? You're essentially asking for a formulated argument against an opinion. Don't you have the brain power to generate one yourself? I do and I did. But I'm one person and my field of knowledge is limited.>Boo-fucking-hoo, some homosexual and transgender people choose to live their life by encroaching on others, and some choose to dedicate their life to communicating with only like minded people, that's not your problem, that's not anyone's problem but theirs. It is my problem when their attitude becomes the assumed default in certain social circles and people such as myself become excluded due to how they view us as a result.It causes unnecessary division in the LGBT community. You don't have to justify your decision to not involve yourself in Pride by bringing down those that do.It's not all about opinions and certain arguments are inherently disrespectful.
>>739681>The other real problem with violence is that gay / trans people tend to be prone to depression and suicide already. That's why I really don't understand the 'gays with guns don't get bashed' NRA bullshit that occasionally gets spewed here.The depression comes from feeling rejected by society. And I think that a lot of the 'flaming queer' bullshit comes from people overcompensating for this. Guns don't help with depression and are actively harmful to have hanging around if feeling suicidal, it's a proven fact that most suicidal people don't kill themselves if they have time to think about it.The NRA issue is different. Most of the people who are actually 'bashed' do not have a 'self defence' mind set, they have internalised the feminist ideology that it is 'never their fault' so take risks that normal people wouldn't. If you are the type of person who stays reasonably alert and avoids dangerous situations having a gun really DOES help protect you if you get attacked anyway.
>>739719Yeah, the great thing about the internet is that I can unleash all my pent-up frustration on Rcboi against the Catholic Church's gays-are-icky-and-let's-ban-them-from-everything-but-let's-do-it-with-a-happy-face-and-hide-behind-dogma-to-avoid-being-labelled-inhuman-monsters blatantly hypocritical stance on LGBT rights, so I don't have to do the same when talking to my Ph.D theology sister.
>>739761>the feminist ideology that it is 'never their fault'Point to me on the doll where the mean feminist touched you
>>739751>people such as myself become excluded due to how they view us as a result.They exclude you because you are a terrible person.
>>739780It's cute when you fail so hard.
>>739761>Most of the people who are actually 'bashed' do not have a 'self defence' mind set, they have internalised the feminist ideology that it is 'never their fault' so take risks that normal people wouldn't.Horseshit. If anything this proves feminist ideology right in that people pull all sorts of shit out of their ass in order to justify blaming the victim of potential victims.
>>739783And you are, without a doubt, a terrible person, as evidenced by your other ramblings and bullshit spewed under that same trip.There's a reason why you're universally hated and unwanted here. This isn't like other boards on 4chan where you get that distinction just for having a trip, we're usually pretty mellow and you really have to work hard to earn it.
>>739604I'm actually an /lgbt/ regular :3Besides, stormfront hates Breivik, Dorner and McVeigh. Either too black, or too jew-friendly. >>739638Again, if we were more intensely armed, I'd see it working. But since it doesn't work for us doesn't mean it wouldn't work for any other group.>>739681Except someone who isn't suicidally depressed isn't going to magically kill themselves when they bought a gun. In fact, I'd wager most armed gays are more confident and secure in their attitude.>>739719I'll admit I do go full-/pol/ some times in class discussions (It was fun when I argued in favor of apartheid) but I'm almost always pleasant and respectful.>>739761It's also funny because feminists are against gun ownership but wonder why rapes aren't prevented. Bitch, gun companies make specific guns for women that are designed to fit in a purse or be concealed in women's clothing. They can't rape you if you shoot them first.>>739794So why don't they arm themselves or prepare for an attack? Hell, I was preparing myself for violent attacks before I even knew I liked dicks. If you're not thinking like a predator, then you're prey. Rules of nature.
>>739794>blaming the victimOh look, the complete inability to differentiate between blaming a victim of crime and a person taking responsibility for their own safety.Who could be stupid enough to think this?>Crystal Princess
>>739809Dante I almost never agree with you but I totally agree that people who are armed are less likely to get raped. Unless the rapist has a gun...then you just better be faster the him.
>>739819>Oh look, the complete inability to differentiate between blaming a victim of crime and a person taking responsibility for their own safety.When you're talking about blame it's very simple. Looking our for your own safety should apply to anyone. It doesn't alter the culpability of the perpetrator vs. the victim.
>>739916>It doesn't alter the culpability of the perpetrator vs. the victim.The only person who said that it did was you. The only person who would think that it did would be a social justice wanker such as yourself.Go back to Reddit.
>>739904It bugs me that a lot of women hate gun companies even though these same companies provide weapons specifically for rape defense and some distributors even provide self-defense classes.
>>739916I guess by that logic you never lock your house doors, check both ways before crossing a street, ect. >>739982it's all about muh feelings
>>738328The stonewall riots were vitally important to the gay rights movement. Those faggots weren't afraid top throw a brink to get their message across.
>>738841Jesus never said anything against gays. The old testament does not count any more because the old covenant was abolished when Jesus came into the picture. So Christians could be ok with gays. Jews and Muslims are another story.
>>739604maybe that's what violence gets you now, and maybe even back then, but I believe it was a big shock to the people of world when fags "those weak poofters" suddenly fought back in the stonewall riots: which isn't too surprising really when you consider the bigger transgender females and cross-dressers are strong enough to rip park park meters/sign posts from the ground like any other big men.
>>740041It's complicated because LOLTRANSLATIONS, but some versions have Jesus coming to uphold the old law which the Jews forgot.
>>739769Wow. This guy's really obsessed with me. This worries me.>>740078Don't take this as criticism or anything; it's just a remark, but I find it interesting how this discussion has gone from being about the gay pride movement to religion and rape.
>>739998Rape is not a natural hazard. The rapist still has to make the decision to rape.
>>739485>So if you're not ashamed, why do you care about people's approval?The fuck are you talking about? Think about what you're actually typing instead of carrying on like a dumbass.
>>739483>That leaves me wondering if the 'pride' activists, rallies, advocacy groups like HRC, GSA groups on campuses and high schools, and other assorted political / support groups will eventually go the way of NOW, NAACP, the NRA and so on; i.e., lobbies which have largely served their purpose long ago and now are mostly zealously looking for things to bitch about.I think it'll probably carry on the same was the ACLU has.
>>740379Crime and natural hazards the same in that they will always be a persistent threat no matter what anyone ever does.
>>740379While I agree that the victim is in no way culpable for the rape, you can't deny that encouraging women to take better, educated safety precautions would reduce the likelihood of rape.It's the same logic we use when we tell children not to take candy from strangers. We aren't blaming the child for taking the candy, but we are encouraging them to be safer.
If a guy went on and on about how heterosexual he was, and how much he loved to have sex with women, and how he totally wasn't gay at all, what would you think?You'd think he's a closet homosexual, that's what you'd think.Now what does it say if someone can't stop talking about how LGBT they are? Think about it.
Guns are for pussies. Real transwomen defend themselves like this.
>>740379rape is a natural hazardit has literally been around as long as humans have, just like murder.
>>737853 (OP)Why don't you accept the fact you'll never be a woman? You're like a guy who tries out for a professional football team each year, hoping to make it, even though you're undersized, overweight, and out of shape. Yet you still keep at it. And get mad at people when they tell you you'll never achieve your goal and should just let it go.
Does going to any public event that has to do with an interest or grouping "define" someone?I doubt anyone is accusing people who go to marathons as "defining themselves by their sport." It's basically the same thing, just a meet up for people with similar experiences/interests
>>741044Going on a slutwalk defines you as a slut. Going to feminist rallies and readings makes you a feminist. See where I'm going with this?
>>737889Look at it like this:If a straight guy struts around town, ranting like a loon about how much he fucking LOVES women, pussy and all that other manly shit. He seems like a shallow douchebag. Right? Now imagine that, but with gay people, and you get the problem a lot of people have with it.They may not want to convey that, it may not be their ultimate goal in life to be seen that way, but it's how they are viewed. And its because of the way they act.Personally, I can understand how one could get carried away and want the world to accept them and all that other shit. But at the end of the day, if you're marching in the streets, wearing a silly costume and making sure everyone within a mile of you KNOWS you like men, then you're an annoying douchebag. Period.There are also better ways to spread awareness and such than being a jackass about it and treating these events like holidays. It's just that those methods require effort...
while i hate people who do actively shove it down others throats I think people aren't quite in agreeance with where to draw the line.personally I don't let being gay define me entirely, but there's no doubt that it is a part of who I am, just like being tall or short, I wear something that is rainbow (it's discreet though) and I make gay comments on things I want to make gay comments about (my friends comment on breasts enough so I don't see why I shouldn't).but everyone gets accused of shoving every now and then, I usually just ask them to count how many hetero relationships there are in the media, and then ask them why they gotta be shoving.
>>738679muh revisionist history
>>739751It is very much all a matter of opinion. There is literally no fact involved here, point it out to me, if you can. And my apologies, let me rephrase. Sure, it's YOUR problem if you feel discriminated, alienated, and just like people are down right meanies because not everyone wants to bask in a giant fucking rainbow and sing songs about how its okay our family hates us because we love each other, but it is literally no one elses. This entire god damn thread is about your feelings, which you need to learn to keep to yourself.Although I suppose not, if you want to keep perpetuating the horrendous stereotype of transwomen being emotional wrecks with nothing better to do with their time but complain about people's perceptions of them.For the record, from the other side of the coin, I think it's equally fucking pointless to abuse people for being proud of something about themselves, whether biologically granted or not. Everyone needs to learn to shut the fuck up and reserve their energy for where it's needed instead of spewing WAHH YOU DON'T RESPECT ME and BOO FILTHY TRANNY OR OVERT FAG DON'T YOU KNOW YOU'RE HARMING OUT MOVEMENT at each other.
>>737853 (OP)>Does anyone have any good comebacks when other LGBTs pull the "defining yourself by your sexuality" or "shoving it down people's throat" shit?Yeah, but it's more of an on-the-spot kind of thing, no list of comebacks or witty remarks to pull from
>>742070thank you for your insight.it's great that we can have a big, strong man like you to be so impartial and above it all for us.
>>742075You're one cheeky cunt m8 swear oath.I didn't ever claim to be impartial though. If I was, I don't think I'd waste my time arguing on here. You're right though, I am huge fucking asshole for suggesting people should respect and support each other with no regard of their political opinion. Jeeze, the world would really go to shit then aye.
>>739341>Mentioning that you are gay and have a boyfriend is fine, reminding people you are gay and bring lgbt issues into every conversation is wrong.But heteros reminding us of their het lifestyles all the fucking time os ok?Cultural indoctrination if I ever saw it. The next time some fuckhead brings up his future kids I'mma smack him.
>>742070>This entire god damn thread is about your feelings, which you need to learn to keep to yourself.>in the middle of an opinionated, emotional rant that says nothing at all and refutes itself half-way throughGood job.
>>739532>Not every queer person is 'liberal'Indeed not. Gay National Socialist reportan.
>Woah woah woah, listen there is no need to keep bringing up the fact that you like cock. Stop shoving that fag shit down my throat, geez, fucking attention whore special snowflakes. You people define yourselves by your sexuality, it's disgusting.>So anyway, I was banging this bitch, right? HUGE tits, and...
>>740010Yes and that was over half a century ago.Get with the times.Using that as an excuse to piggyback on our movement like a parasite is incredibly selfish
>>743361Could you stop this shit? I mean, really, what are you accomplishing right now?
Violence can be a useful political tool if used wisely. The goal of any protest is to gain sympathetic media attention, the easiest way to do this is to get police to overreact on camera. Unlike the 60's and 70's police nowadays are too smart to break out the tear gas or attack dogs and just stick to pepper spray or manhandling. Protestors should be violent enough that the police fear for their safety but not so violent as to have the escalation blamed on them.
>>740010>Those faggots weren't afraid top throw a brink to get their message across.u wot
>>743403
>>740407I agree. I don't think women should not dress how they like, but I also think they should keep in mind that, as society stands, their being a woman (especially an attractive woman) puts them at extra risk. This is not their fault and does not excuse rapists. It's just safety
>>743423I've been to too many protests (for a variety of issues) where nothing happens and nobody cares.Non-violence only works if the other side is violent otherwise you're just wasting your time
>>743403So basically it's attention whoring.
>>738224I don't think they're talking about these kinds. IMO that's just tacky and gross. I think they just mean the types who don't make their being gay or trans a secret or try very hard to "blend in"
>>743432Attention whoring on the internet is one thing but if there is an IRL issue that you think deserves more attention than it's getting what's wrong with that?The protesters in Turkey right now aren't just doing this for fun, they have legitimate grievances (state control of media, secret death camps, rigged elections etc...)
>>743454>The protesters in Turkey right now aren't just doing this for fun, they have legitimate grievances (state control of media, secret death camps, rigged elections etc...)You are obviously not grasping the central point. Violence is not a useful tactic unless it's a prelude to full scale warfare.The Turkish protesters make up a large segment of the population and it's conceivable that they could have and win a full scale rebellion against the government./lgbt/ people will never have that kind of popular support because we are a minority. For US escalating into violence is actively harmful because we will always lose that type of conflict.
>>737889That's one of the things that bothers me. If I go to a concert, no one makes a stink about defining myself as a punk. If I attend the 4th of July parade, no one rational is going to call me a nationalistic prick. The second you go to a LGBT event, all hell breaks loose, however.
>>737889To me, pride parades are not the different from mardigras or St. Patricks day
>>738149>don't act like a niggerSounds good to me
Gay pride reinforces the idea that being gay is a choice and they are proud of that choice. If you were born that way then what's to celebrate? >Hooray, factors I couldn't control!
>gay is a birth defecthttp://abcnews.go.com/blogs/entertainment/2012/01/cynthia-nixon-gay-by-choice/
>>743668>If you were born that way then what's to celebrate?Because it's a celebration, bitches!Every culture has its pride celebrations. St Patrick's Day, Mardi Gras, and so on. Just because you're born that way doesn't mean you shouldn't celebrate it.
>>743671>entertainment
>>737853 (OP)>defining yourself by your sexualitydefining yourself as _______[to the exclusion of other things] is a legitimate criticism of someone who lacks depth of personality (which would happen to truthfully apply to much of the 4chan user base) and is something you can fix.And it has nothing to do with a 'conservative mentality.'
>>743527Plz remind me at what point in the Civil Right or Anti-War movements was the USA in full scale Civil war? Despite what your Middle School may have taught you, not all of those protests were peaceful.
>>743711But who's to say it's to the exclusion of others?
>>743993>not all of those protests were peaceful.And the violent demonstrations harmed the movements rather than helped them.When under cover cops infaltrate political movements they are always encouraging protesters to be more violent, that's because they want to derail and harm the movement not because they want to help you make a dramatic point in the press.
>>738035Never seen a post explaining PotC better before.Add a pinch of autism in that definition though.9/10
>>740010>Those faggotssaged, reported, hidden.You are absolutely disgusting.
>>744101They latch onto any excuse they can to stay in the movement, even though it's clear they aren't wanted.Kinda creepy and parasitic really.I mean really, resorting to one single riot half a centure ago to stay in, and make the rest of us look bad?Shame.
>>744117>implying in LGBT, L and G and B are far more advanced at career and other aspects of life than T members all around.
>>744131Are you being sarcastic you retarded tranny?I am just hoping you forgot a "not" there because if we create a list, LGB are actually much succesful in life than T.
>>744055>because they want to derail and harm the movementThis is a pretty f***ed up way to view the police. It would make no sense for policemen to unilaterally oppose all movements by making them more violentA) because their job is to protect the public, and inciting a riot protects no oneB) because cops aren't supposed to get involved in such matters.In what cases have policemen actually encouraged rioters?Secondly, violent protest brings heated matters to public attention. It's instant publicity. No one was talking about Al-Qaeda in the US before 9-11, certainly not to the scale they were afterwards. If the issue is serious enough that all that matters is bringing it to public attention, violence is an effective way of doing that.
>>744255He's not talking about policework, it's government matters.CIA + Cold War ring a bell?
>>744270Oh. Yeah. CIA and MI5 during and after the Cold War, definitely. "Cops" just usually means "policemen" so I was curious.
since when have you ever had trouble coming up with an elaborate, over-analytical counter argument for anything, no matter how insignificant? are you okay?but seriously, i have a hard time believing anybody would have trouble countering that so-called "argument." i mean, who makes such wild assumptions about somebody just because they don't shamefully water themselves down to mediocrity? especially for the purpose of pandering to ignorant people. it's just... so objectively ridiculous i'm not sure why we're even talking about it.
>>737933This.
>>738035>implying self-righteous bigoted asshats aren't the morally bankrupt sideshow freaksRiiiiiight....Housenigger.
>>738071And when your ad hominems are called out as invalid argument...? Maybe you should consider that you don't have a valid point?Just a thought.
>>738075There are a buhjillion pretentious labels to use instead if you don't want to self-identify as gay.MSM is a popular one.Now GTFOand fight for your own rights if you're gonna bitch about the behavior the people currently doing it.
Y'know, I really don't see why people hate on Princess so hard - any more than the other tripfags, that is. I actually find myself agreeing with most of what she's said ITT. I think it's really just based on her appearance - MTF's bullying her in order to assuage their own insecurities about not passing.>>739345This very much of course. I'd appreciate her contributions far more if she dropped the trip, but eh.The main flaw when people talk about "faggots shoving it down people's throats" is that straight people foist their sexuality on the world constantly, in the worst kind of obnoxious manner. How many times have you heard some guy bragging about his sexual conquests?>Cor, you should have seen the tits on this one mate!>Three birds on the go at once? Nice one.Or else some classless tart flirting with every man she comes across, making sure to establish herself as an available and desirable female in every conversation she has. Then getting really wasted and flashing her breasts at the encouragement of her friends, which is of course met with approval from all the males present.All these displays of sexuality make me wince, not because they are heterosexual in nature but because they are simply crass and obnoxious. All obnoxious public expression should be frowned upon - the problem comes when people try to define any and all public mention of homosexuality as obnoxious attention seeking by definition, even whilst parallel displays of a heterosexual nature are quite normalized.I approve of pride parades (even whilst I personally find them distasteful) because they are simply about affirming those aspects of oneself which others have made them feel ashamed for.
>>744716we don't want to live in your worldand by we, I refer to the majority of gay guys and the world at largeyour vision of a perfect society is laughably fragile and rests upon a culture of effite slaveowners who never produce anything except entertainment.
>>739093There where is my white pride parade and my brown hair pride parade?
>>737853 (OP)Yes it's called grow some god damn balls and quit being such a little bitch. >B...but much feelingsGo to tumblr or rebbit if you want a hug box.
>>737935I have yet to meet a normal person IRL. I know plenty of people who like to call themselves normal, but are neurotic in some way or another.Like /pol/. /pol/locks like to call themselves "normal", but in reality, they're a bunch of abnormal skinheads who are neurotically obsessed with cultural "purity" and advocate violent or repressive means to in order to attain it. That is not normal.
>>737933>most of the motivation for what we do comes from the desire to find someone to shag.How was Einstein planning on using his theories to get laid? Was Columbus trying to find a shortcut to some Indian tail? Did Alan Turing break the Enigma code just to sleep with someone? Was Plato trying to woo someone into bed with his writings? Most of what people do comes from an intense passion for doing whatever the hell it is they want to do. It's pretty limited to think the only reason a person gets out of bed in the morning is to sleep with someone.
>>745587pffffffft. What are you niggahs even talking about?
t>>746105Einstein was well known as a pervert. He openly cheated on his wife because he knew he could get away with it due to his notoriety.Columbus knew that being an explorer came with vast riches and usually power. Men use those things to fuck people. Alan Turing broke the enigma code mostly as a challenge, I imagine, though I admit I'm not well versed on it. Setting and completing goals is very much a display of worth to attract mates.Plato wasn't Socrates. He wrote shit down. He wanted to be well-known. He wanted that fame. And fame is wanting adoration, and wanting to fuck people.Now if you wanted examples of people doing stuff not for sex, you probably should have used Tesla. Socrates would have been better than Plato, too.
>>746213There's a very bold line between wanting to have sex with people and actively making every aspect of your life /about/ sleeping people. I suppose it's the rather unfortunate nature of arguing motives that everything is eventually just speculation. However, the desire to get laid doesn't explain why people chose the fields they did. There's more than one way to get someone to sleep with you, and a great many require little to no effort, so why would these men strive so hard for something so simple?Plus, how does arguing this help either of us get laid? Keep in mind, unless you had the answer to that question in mind before reading it, whatever you conjure up wasn't a motive.
>>737853 (OP)>Does anyone have any good comebacks when other LGBTs pull the "defining yourself by your sexuality" or "shoving it down people's throat" shit?Uh, stop doing it?
>>746279Because they were good in those fields and higher success will in theory attract higher quality mates?Honestly I'm just playing devil's advocate. I don't really believe it. I just can see some logic in the argument but it's definitely a simplified version.
>>743587Punks go to concerts to listen to music. 4th of July is a national holiday, and the parades are pretty lame. Getting together because you're gay, therefore trannies and thongs and slutting around in the street; bit different.
I apologize for this, but I gotta vent:The whole idea of defining yourself is fucking retarded. We're talking about a human being. We constantly learn and adapt and change. Now if you're a guy and like other guys, that's cool. But can you really limit it to just that? Should you? Nah. It's just a stupid concept. It doesn't make you free to live like you want. It just restricts you, and enforces a single mindset. Why should you have to label yourself. You don't have to explain your life, and if you did, you couldn't do it in a single word ending in sexual. We're all just fucking animals with a self-destructive habit of overcomplicating everything.
>>746326I'm certain if one works hard enough and employs enough psychoanalysis, one could form a rational connection to link all actions to the desire for sex. However, you would need to be "aiming" for that end, so I wouldn't consider that a valid argument.But I enjoy playing devil's advocate sometimes too. This isn't a rag on you.
>>746405It's funny because if you'd have actually thought about any of that you'd realise you can still attend a gay pride festival without doing that. We are all made up of lots of different things, our sexuality being one of them. And whether we accept it or not, it does define our place in society and how we love others.
>>746405>Why should you have to label yourself[?]That's what people DO! </reference>We classify and describe everything under the sun; it's our nature. We live under the sun, so we want to classify and describe ourselves. Words are amazing for that. In fact, that's their entire purpose.Individuals are unique, and -- obviously -- no one word is going to describe them entirely. But no "one word" has ever tried to. Identifying as gay doesn't mean every single aspect of your entire life must be devoted towards some gay agenda, but it does mean you have a preference towards the same gender as your own. And having a preference towards the same gender as your own means you're gay. The word describes the fact, so,, even if you are uncomfortable with the word for whatever reason, you are still gay.
>>737853 (OP)Tell them to check their sanity privilege
>>746380But, that's not the point. What does it matter if there's music there, there's so much more.What does it matter if it's a national holiday?It's all something highly visual you're participating in. Only difference is, everyone assumes you're solely defining yourself by one of them.
>>748252
>>748252This, I wish people would get that. Labels don't have to be concrete or all-encompassing. You get that a lot with subcultures, because you say you're interested in "goth" you're suddenly a hyper-conformist stereotype, even though the more common sense opposite case is often true(assuming you're not a teenager).
The anti pride stuff on this board is super silly. I went to a parade last weekend and it was nothing like you guys said. Everyone was fully clothed, and families brought their kids/babies. I saw maybe three drag queens and the gayest thing I saw were rainbow bracelets. It was nothing crazy at all.
Eh, people in general feel some need to fit in with a group, so they adopt labels for attention and belonging.It's just like, and at the same time, the opposite of Special Snowflake Syndrome.It all seems like a gang mentality to me either way.
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