>>10883822
I see no problem here.


>for now

>>10883822
>I kinda looked like that as a kid
>and was in boy scouts...

>Gun control is a good idea. As long as those who administer it are local.

>I've always thought the "militia" part of the amendment assumed you would be locally trained or drilled. I would be all for having a requirement, say every year, of showing up and displaying your gun safety with others from your neighborhood. It would weed out the idiots that didn't know their ass from a trigger guard. And those that didn't would learn from their peers.

>>10883855
AHAHAHA.....oh wait...I was a boy scout too...
well never-mind, carry on
>boy scout bros
>American version of Hitler-Jugend

>assault clips

>>10883876
>>10883855
I was in the scouts, too, but I bailed before I could get molested.

>as though anyone would molest an obese little kid

Quotes by the founding fathers show very clear what they meant by the 2nd. All these stupid people...

>>10883867
Saw that too haha.


At least the entire thread isn't full of too many libtards, surprisingly.

I also stay the fuck away from /pol/ too many elitist, dumbass leftists.

I'm somewhat afraid of how poltics will be in the next 20 years since a lot of kids from this generation are having the Ron Paulitics rub off on them. I even saw an ad for a youtube vid that turned out to be an hour or so longer vid for why people should vote for ron paul.

Now, I don't mean disrespect to him. I don't share his POV's exactly, but I hate a lot of the dipshits that are reciting the same shit. I think the guy seems pretty direct and straight up on his beliefs( for a politician) that i wish I saw more in other politicians.

...and also ron paul is why I stay away from /pol/

>>10884565
Ok, I have to know. What don't you agree with Ron Paul on? If you say foreign policy, please kill yourself.

>>10884570
Not that guy, but I agree w/ Ron Paul except on his plan to re-instate the gold standard, or to bring America's economy back to one which is centered on gold/bullion. While it was a good idea 300 years ago when there were few people and there was little money, there are too many people and too much money/debt to have an economy based upon the value of gold. I'd like for it to happen, but I sincerely hope it doesn't and it probably won't. I'm pretty set on panning for gold dust so I can buy a loaf of bread or liquidating all my assets for a few coins.

/my $.02

>>10884565
>I also stay the fuck away from /pol/ too many elitist, dumbass leftists.

Wait, you stay away from /pol/ because there's too many LEFTISTS? Isn't that like disliking hell cause it's too damn cold?

Every time I go there, damn near every thread is nothing but bigots ranting about women, jews and blacks.

>>10884570
There's plenty of shit here and there.

I don't associate with either political party as I vary depending on it.
I love social and political sciences...

However, 'murica isn't going to change being the world's power. It's too radical and fast paced for a lot of the shit he wants to do (from the what i've listened to from him) because of the amount of bureaucracy in government and politics. Simple enough.

I understand his POVs, and the POVs of many politicians, but all politicians lean further on the political spectrum than most moderate citizens.

But I do sincerely respect how direct and seemingly honest he is, compared to politicians who work for the party whip, and the party itself, instead of their own ideology.

Now I don't care to get in an argument or anything. I'm just saying, I really wish more politicians were as true to themselves as he is, and that I respect the guy a lot more than most politicians I've seen.

>>10884580
For the last time, he's not going to reinstate the gold standard. He just wants a sound currency.

Besides, America is only around 234 years old and became the longest economy in the entire world around 1877. We were only taken off the gold standard in the 1970s by Nixon. We were also taken off the gold standard for a short period in the civil war era but went back to the gold standard.

I'm going to say this because it's the truth. Fiat currency is a failure. There is literally no example of any fiat currency in the history of humanity lasting more than on average three decades. America's is the longest lasting at four decades but it's already showing its weakness and we've only been able to prop it up through unsustainable means.

>>10884600
>There is literally no example of any fiat currency in the history of humanity lasting more than on average three decades.

...whut?

This might be the dumbest thing I've read on 4chan in at least ten minutes.

>2012
>fiat currency

>>10884600
largest*

>>10884597
How about please listing them? Nothing Ron Paul says will even hurt America's #1 power status, in fact it would make it better. We can't afford this shit anymore and it's seems like we're setting ourselves up to end up like the Soviets did in the sandbox.

>>10884615
lol provide to me an example then.

You won't find any.

There are ZERO examples in history of fiat currencies lasting for long.

>>10884596
Well I only went there a few times..and that was typically the shit I saw. I just assum the racism is because this is fucking 4chan. Most posts were full of ignorant elitists, who actually thought they knew jackshit about ANYTHING that goes on in politics, and were just posting HURR DURR REPUBLICANS BUSH DUMBASS, ILLEGAL WARS, PAWN OF CHINA HAHAHA.

Just really stupid shit. Hell, it seemed like every person who posted there was an angsty adolescent who just took their first history class in middle school or high school, or learned a simple statistic in econ or some shit.

Meh. It's 4chan... There is no such thing as a political discussion to even be had that won't get diluted by trolls or dumbasses.

Anyways, arguing on the internet seldom altar's anyone's views..people only talk AT people than to people.
Meh..but that's politics I guess.

>>10884632
>Meh. It's 4chan... There is no such thing as a discussion to even be had that won't get diluted by trolls or dumbasses.
FTFY

>>10884621
Withdrawing all American bases and forts out of nearly every country we are in...

yeah, we have TONS of bases throughout other countries that are our allies, along with wartime bases.

No country has a base in our territories, at least in the continental US, I know.

Yes, that lowers our influence in many neighboring countries or the country we are in, and affect expeditionary forces.

>>10884628
>There are ZERO examples in history of fiat currencies lasting for long.

You list one that lasted longer than three decades in that very post, you stupid shit:

>America's is the longest lasting at four decades

>>10884580
I always wonder why underaged b& retards think the gold standard is some 18th-19th century thing even though we've had it for the vast majority of the 20th century.

>>10884600


Gold-backed currency is a form of fiat currency. If you disagree, you do not understand economics.

>>10884656
You dumb piece of shit, learn to fucking read.

>three decades on average
>on average
>America's is the longest lasting ever at four

You know what these words MEAN, right?

ALL fiat currencies in human history end in failure. There isn't any example of one lasting for long unless you would like to provide some.

You can't, you stupid cunt. Don't try to argue economics with me, you'll be destroyed.

>>10884668
>gold-backed currency is a form of currency not backed by anything except government edict

This thread turned into a flurry of butthurt and anger as soon as someone said "Ron Paul".

>>10884650
We can't afford this shit. We have the greatest power projection on the face of the planet even without these bases. A lot of them don't even want us there in the first place which only causes us trouble. We have tremendous amounts of influence and the geopolitic experts that actually predicted and warned people about 9/11 but nobody listened know we don't even need this. It's all fear mongering to keep morons like you thinking we actually need these many bases right now. No country on earth will go to war with us because they know what we'll do and can do to them plus we don't fucking need these bases.

>>10884671
>You can't, you stupid cunt. Don't try to argue economics with me, you'll be destroyed.
You're starting to sound like a sticky fatty whom is gyrating angrily in a suicidal office chair with a giant, greasy neckbeard.

Just my take on it.

>>10884674
Our money is not backed up by anything of physical worth.

Our money is based upon the belief that it is worth something.

You're a fucking idiot if you don't know that, or should re-take high school government or economics to re-learn that.

>>10884668

>>10884685
Well that's not very gentlemanly of you, now is it? I'm very angry right now. Poor understanding of even the most basic economics fucked up our economy badly and when I see shitstains like him speak it makes me want to dump every single round out of my SOCOM 16 in him.

>>10884671
>Every currency on earth that has existed has failed.

>Except the ones that haven't yet.

That is shocking. Next you are going to tell us that every cow to ever exist has died.

Cows all die. We should never make use of them!

>>10884687
That's exactly the point I wanted to get across.
>not backed up by anything of physical worth.
Sup fiat currency.
>gold
>not of physical worth
Inb4 bullshit rationalizations about how gold is actually useless.

>>10884704
You're not helping your case, step away from the computer, take a breath, make a doctors appointment for your issues, then come back and discuss.

Anyone who understands simple history and economics knows all fiat currencies ever failed and in a relatively short time, just a few decades.

Our debt based system is doomed to failure too. It already is. Keep those interest rates low, yep... Good good...

>>10884683
You see, shit like this here is why I was referring to
"elitist leftists' and whatnot.

You go off calling me a moron, simply because I recited a statement I've heard from your political god.

As soon as you start making frivolous insults and posting logical fallacies, your argument goes out the window.

I made no implications of my own stance on "thinking we need those bases" or the what I OPPOSE compared to his political beliefs. I did not say I disagree with that.

I was merely saying how political bureaucracy won't allow it, and it's too fast paced, even IF he ever got into office. Sure, 3rd parties can greatly influence one of the parties in power..but won't actually get elected.

Now please, fuck off. Shitheads like are why I can't talk about politics on the internet, and many times in person. Simply enough that people can't share political perspectives, as people like you talk AT someone instead of to them, and immediately must try to degrade them as a person or intelligence, as if it helps your argument, or if you can't back up your argument by other authority figures or the like.

Now please fuck off. Thanks for reminding me nearly everyone on 4chan is an angry, one-sided, retard.


see
>Now I don't care to get in an argument or anything
>Meh. It's 4chan... There is no such thing as a discussion to even be had that won't get diluted by trolls or dumbasses.

>>10884715

Every cow that has ever existed has died, except for the ones that are alive now.

Most cows only last 2 to 3 years!

>>10884715
0/10 not gonna troll me, faggot.

Also, I take it this means you failed to find a fiat currency that has lasted long term, yes?

>>10884717
I'm not gonna take orders from someone who calls himself and has the title Esq.

>>10884723
>Thanks for reminding me nearly everyone on 4chan is an angry, one-sided, retard.

It's so hard to forget this, sometimes. A few days ago I raged to the point of feeling lightheaded because someone on this board wanted to sue their parents for circumcising them.

>>10884671
>You dumb piece of shit, learn to fucking read.

Fuck off. You said:

>There is literally no example of any fiat currency in the history of humanity lasting more than on average three decades.

The only way to parse that logically is to assume you meant "no example of a fiat currency lasting more than three decades". You cannot say "literally no example" of something occurring "on average". It makes no goddamn sense. Is English your first language?

>ALL fiat currencies in human history end in failure. There isn't any example of one lasting for long unless you would like to provide some.

Wikipedia lists China as having fiat currency from around the 10th century until the year 1455. That appears to be the longest on record. Though as >>10884668 points out, many forms of historical gold-backed currencies are fiat currencies, as in most currencies based on a gold standard, the government fixes the value of gold in the same way they fix the value of money in other fiat money systems.

The problem with fiat currency is that there is no example of any that hasn't ending up in the process of devaluing then collapse. Sure, we can keep people trading with dollars by force but countries like India and China are already trading gold for oil to circumvent the dollar and sanctions.

>>10884723
"leftist"

You're such an eyesore, you don't even know what that word means. You keep calling people elitists when you can't even refute their points with actual arguments. It's just an excuse because you're stupid.

>>10884671 You can't, you stupid cunt. Don't try to argue economics with me, you'll be destroyed.

Dang, why are paulites always such psychotic douchebags?

>>10884736
>wikipedia

And about China...

When the Chinese first started using paper money, they called it “flying money,” because it could just fly from your hands. The reason for the issuance of paper money is simple. There was a copper shortage, so banks had switched to the use of iron coinage. These iron coins became overissued and fell in value.

In the 11th century, a bank in the Szechuan province of China issued paper money in exchange for the iron coins. Initially, this was fine, because the paper money was exchangeable for gold, silver, or silk. Eventually, inflation began to take hold, as China was funding an ongoing war with the Mongols, which it eventually lost.

Genghis Khan won this war, but the Mongols didn’t assume immediate control over China as they pushed westward to conquer more lands. Genghis Khan’s grandson Kublai Khan united China and assumed the emperorship. After running into some setbacks with paper currency, Kublai eventually had some success with fiat money. In fact, Marco Polo said of Kublai Khan and the use of paper currency:

>>10884731
Yeah, but if you can control yourself and not post because of someone's ignorance, it's actually entertaining to see how sincerely moronic some people are who ain't even trolling.

Some people just don't understand when things are plausible or practical in the real world.
...another reason why I love when people post that they are socialists, and sincerely think all this wonderful crap about it, and don't know jackshit about the bullshit they spouting.

Meh. Good reminder this thread is to not get involved with /pol/ at all, even on /k/

>>10884765
“You might say that [Kublai] has the secret of alchemy in perfection…the Khan causes every year to be made such a vast quantity of this money, which costs him nothing, that it must equal in amount all the treasure of the world.”

Marco Polo went on to say:

“This was the most brilliant period in the history of China. Kublai Khan, after subduing and uniting the whole country and adding Burma, Cochin China, and Tonkin to the empire, entered upon a series of internal improvements and civil reforms, which raised the country he had conquered to the highest rank of civilization, power, and progress.”

Wait a second, I thought we were bashing fiat currencies here…Can anyone say crackup boom? Since Marco Polo experienced this firsthand, and has been very helpful to us thus far, I think I will allow him to finish his analysis of China’s paper money experiment.

“Population and trade had greatly increased, but the emissions of paper notes were suffered to largely outrun both…All the beneficial effects of a currency that is allowed to expand with a growth of population and trade were now turned into those evil effects that flow from a currency emitted in excess of such growth. These effects were not slow to develop themselves…The best families in the empire were ruined, a new set of men came into the control of public affairs, and the country became the scene of internecine warfare and confusion.”

They FAILED and were SHORT TERM.

>>10884736
The whole point was that the dollar was the exception, the others were literally only about three decades. I don't think it could have been more clear, unless you find this the only thing you can pick out after being so retarded.

>>10884765

Don't try to change the subject, you insisted that no fiat currency had lasted for more than a few decades, and called anyone who disagreed with you a "cunt". Now you're proven wrong and you're like "sure, china had fiat currency for 400 years or whatever, but it totally sucked!".

That wasn't the argument. The argument was over you saying:

>There is literally no example of any fiat currency in the history of humanity lasting more than on average three decades.

>>10884754
Please read
>"elitist leftists' and whatnot.
>AND WHATNOT

I was not addressing YOU as a leftist, but merely why I was stating ELITIST earlier.

Jesusfuckingchrist.

I have no more to even respond back to you. You sound like a fucking underage kid.

Oh by the way, I just finished spending a semester as an intern in a high school teaching egotistical little shits like you.

You need to check yourself before you actually spout more bullshit you pick up and recite from shit you read online, and saw on TV.

Please fuck off and don't reply. I won't reply any more to you as I have better shit to do than argue with some kiddie on the internet.

>>10884779
But I didn't you fucking idiot. It DIDN'T last longer than three decades. Over and over they tried and switched back and it fails OVER AND OVER. IT DIDN'T WORK AND IT FAILED MISERABLY.

>>10884777
>The whole point was that the dollar was the exception, the others were literally only about three decades. I don't think it could have been more clear, unless you find this the only thing you can pick out after being so retarded.

You said "literally no example" of fiat currencies lasting that long. Do you understand what the word "literally" means?

Stop trying to weasel out of it; you said a bunch of stupid shit and you were called on it. Calling everyone pointing that out retards and cunts won't change that.

Jesus, you two are mad.

Chill out.

>>10884782
>kiddie

This is the retort of someone who is actually underaged I see. You could have just used the word elitist like any intelligent person but no you had to throw in the word leftist and gripe about these so called "elitist leftists". You idiots who call others elitists without even providing any real argument while spouting your endless ad hominems are truly an eyesore. Fucking anti-intellectualism run amok.

>>10884754

The US hasn't been on the gold standard in more then 40 years and in that time the US economy has more then tripled in size.

The Gold Standard only works until the price of gold goes over the value of your money. Then you get people exchanging your money for gold and YOUR ECONOMY IMPLODES. This also leads to the small problem of the world economy being worth more then every bit of gold ever mined. Even if you again tried to seize all privately owned gold there simply isn't enough to cover the value of gold.

>>10884783
>But I didn't you fucking idiot. It DIDN'T last longer than three decades

Yes, it did. It lasted between 1050 and 1450.

http://www.financialsensearchive.com/fsu/editorials/ramsden/2004/0617.html

In case your math skills suck as much as your knowledge of economics, 1450 - 1050 is 400 years. And 400 > 30.

>>10884786
Ughhh... Yes because there literally aren't any except for the dollar after which lasted a mere four and is already failing. That's what I was saying, which is why I posted that sentence after. If all you're going to do is nitpick at language trying to avoid the main argument of your economic failure then just admit you're fucking wrong and stupid like your really are.

Guess where you are on the pyramid? But I can play at your level to, you filthy little vermin and your full retard economics which always lead to disaster.

Go google fiat currency failure and educate yourself.

>>10884565
ITT: discussion of gun control turns to Our Savior Ron Paul bullshit about fiat currency.

>>10884791
Is it wrong that I think Nixon was brilliant with his dick move of just saying dollars were no longer exchangeable for gold? Fuck inflation, the federal reserve crashing would have been much worse and claiming all privately held gold and silver via eminent domain is the kind of thing you really should go INNA WOODS for.

>>10884791
>herpderp

How much value has the dollar lost since then? How much richer are we per capita? Oh wait, we're poorer if we account for inflation...

Guess what % of GDP the US economy accounted for in the world economy on the gold standard.

I'll leave you to punch yourself in the face now.

>>10884801
No, if you have a reasoned argument as to why which I think your argument somewhat is. I think it was a terrible move. The so called American exceptionalism actually went down according to the charts after. If it wasn't for our damn tech boom we'd be awful.

>>10884796
Gold backed currencies constantly failed and strangled economic growth.

You understand that, right? In fact, they led to the worst depressions in the world.

All the prosperity the baby boomers had growing up didn't happen after the gold standard now did it?

People are so indoctrinated into thinking it's some crazy ancient idea yet it worked well into the modern century.

It's funny though, there's no way you could reject the gold standard or a competing/backed/sound currency without being a leftist in the first place. You keep your stupid voodoo economics, I'll have something that isn't imaginary.

>>10884802
Factoring for inflation the average household still earns more now then it did in 1971. Good try though. You've clearly been reading lots of RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT stuff.

>>10884811
I always see this coming, it eventually comes to it but I'll say it time and time again. Gold wasn't responsible for those things, in fact... Let's talk about the hyperinflation.

>>10884811
>gold back currencies consistently failed

It has the best track record of any currency ever used, ever... Especially compared to fiat.

For anyone, if people want to have different economic ideas, fine but they better be damn well be ready to defend them.

>>10884835
No, let's hear you explain how governments can't be trusted to run a gold standard, making them totally unworkable in the real world.

Inflation sucks. You know what sucks more? Deflation.

>>10884846
Whoa whoa whoa, can't be trusted? Who said that?

>>10884846
They both equality suck. I never said I don't want inflation, but we need to slow it down. Our dollar is worth a lot less in just these past these years and it hurts our savings tremendously. Even the Canadian and Australian passed us and their economies are doing much better. Deflation may hurt our exports but that won't matter much if this keeps happening.

Well I'll say this.
Gold was tripled in value in the last decade alone.
Anyone who invested in it back then should pat themselves on the back.
Investing in gold right now could be a bad idea though...

I don't see why /k/ hates Ron Paul. He's already said he has every intention of undermining the automatic weapons banned if he can't get it repealed. He plans to put surplus WW2 and Vietnam guns on the market. Nobody wants pre registered $200 fully auto Thompsons?

>>10884913
/k/ doesn't hate him. It's just a few lone fags.

>>10884890
>Gold was tripled in value in the last decade alone.

That sort of volatility is incredibly BAD for a currency.

Jesus, can't you fuckers read an economics text before spouting off bullshit on the internet or something?

>>10884952
Volatility is finance not economics. Get your shit together and it's not gold that's volatile it's fiat that is.

>>10884952
what is this, I don't even...
>>10884964
THIS

>>10884952
What text book are you reading because it sure as hell isn't economics.

>>10884964
>it's not gold that's volatile

Haha, what?

Anyway, as others have said, deflation is even worse than inflation. Look at how much an overpriced Yen has buttfucked Japan. Why on earth would people point to the skyrocketing price of gold as a good thing for gold-backed economies?

I mean, I haven't even brought up that the current gold price is CLEARLY a bubble yet.

>>10884999
Keynes said both inflation and deflation are undesirable but inflation is the lesser of two evils. That doesn't make inflation a good thing. It's not the yen that has buttfucked Japan it's their debt to GDP and an aging demographic.

>>10885017
>Keynes said both inflation ... undesirable

>>10885017
>keynes

Of all the... seriously? Goddamn and that guy had the nerve to call other people leftists.

>>10885017
>It's not the yen that has buttfucked Japan it's their debt to GDP and an aging demographic.

Exactly this. Also the Japanese bubble which the people against fiat currency predicted while everyone else was full retard running on the rising sun scare thinking Japan would actually surpass America.

Also fuck Keynes.

>>10885027
"Inflation is unjust and deflation in inexpedient. Of the two deflations is worse."

1. Inflation redistributes income in the favour of the rich and the profiteer class at the cost of the poor masses - the wage-earners and consumers.

2. Through its redistributive effects, inflation increases the inequality of income in the community by widening the gulf between higher income groups and lower income groups. The rich become richer and the poor become poorer during inflation.

3. Inflation is regressive in effect in the sense that it hits hard those who are already weak and cannot protect themselves. It is specially the middle class which suffers most due to inflation.

4. Inflation is unjust because it affects different classes of people in society in different ways and different degrees .if inflation were to affect everyone in the society in exactly the same manner and to the same degree, it would not alter the economic and social relationships in the community. But inflation takes away wealth from some people and transfers to others arbitrarily without taking into consideration the sound maxim of social equity.

5. Inflation is also unjust because it breaks public morale. From the point of view of social ethics, inflation is always demoralizing; it introduces the spirit of gambling. It promotes speculation, hoarding, and diverts business skill and efficiency from productive purposes to speculative purposes.

6. Inflation erodes real savings by deterioration in the value of money.

7. Inflation creates money illusion and generates artificial prosperity, which is not permanent.

>>10885049
A+ post

Everyone please read up on "inflation tax". The rich get richer, my friends.

>>10884964
even when gold was used as a basis for currency it was as indicator of price, not a traded fucking commodity. Value is subjective, for everything, no matter what. I'm tired of you autistic fucks acting like gold is some kind of objective stand-in for reified value.

>>10885034
Protip: Keynes was looking for capitalist answer to Marxism.

>>10885017
>That doesn't make inflation a good thing. It's not the yen that has buttfucked Japan it's their debt to GDP and an aging demographic

A country can have multiple problems, you know that, right? Japan is suffering due to the high value of the Yen.

Fuck, I'll google it for you:

>http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/15/business/global/battling-falling-prices-japan-sets-an-inflatio
n-target.html?_r=1
>http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2012/02/15/for_the_first_time_ever_bank_of_japan_says_it_wan
ts_inflation.html
>http://www.cepr.net/index.php/blogs/beat-the-press/big-news-japan-targets-higher-inflation

>>10885043
>the Japanese bubble which the people against fiat currency predicted

I assume by "the people against fiat currency" you mean Ron Paul, who also said that the Japanese economy would suffer from rampant inflation, when it instead suffered from deflation. The people who bring it up as an example of how great an economic prophet he is usually omit that part.

>>10885049
>6. Inflation erodes real savings by deterioration in the value of money.

Inflation encourages people to invest their money, which is VASTLY better for the economy than just leaving it in a safe, or whatever.