Chinese and Japanese are only similar from 1/3 of vocabulary usage and both of them use Chinese characters

>>600418
Japanese (and Mainland-Chinese) use simplified Characters, Taiwan uses Traditional. (Though China is recently taking steps to bring back traditional characters because all the rich Chinese bankers living in the U.S, Singapore, Australia etc. use it).

the only similarity between chinese and japanese is vocabulary and calques
chinese characters are used same but look most of time differently

>>600427
Technically, PRC-simplified characters are *too* simplified IMHO. 问=問, 电=電, etc...

>>600427
Fuck those rich bankers. I'm gonna be richer than they will ever be and spit in their faces if they ever deliver a pitch book to me in traditional Chinese.

>>600430
>chinese characters are used same but look most of time differently
i realize it needs an example. here's how "telephone" is written in
电话 - chinese
電話 - japanese
both are technically same characters even though they look differently

>>600427

Why don't they all just stop being faggots and abandon their archaic writing systems?

>>600441
Brain-washed PRC-farmer detected.

>>600442
But the japanese ones look exactly like traditional characters

>>600446
why don't the americans just stop being such faggots and abandon their retarded alphabet writing to switch to much more convenient chinese characters?

>>600446
It's the oldest writing system in the world still being used today! Also, China was the leading scientific community while using this "Archaic Writing System" for over 4,000 years (they stopped when the Manchu's invaded).

>>600456
not really
經 濟 - chinese (traditional)
経済 - japanese
besides who uses traditional nowadays?

>>600450
You goddamn right I hail from the PRC.

Which China-wanna be do you come from?

>>600457
>convenient
>have no idea what a character means or how to pronounce it without being told or looking it up in a dictionary

>>600471
I'm Hokkien-Chinese, we're way more educated and cultured than you, have fun burning down your own heritage.

>>600473
>implying that in english you have idea how to pronounce a word without looking for pronunciation in dictionary

Chinese - SVO, prepositions, isolating (no conjugation or inflection), tones
Japanese - SOV, postpositions, agglutinative, pitch accents

thanks for the help guys.. another question.. I mentioned it to a friend and she jokingly said "have a nice 7 years!". Many people also say it is the hardest language to learn for english speakers but I dont know how true that is.. Is it really that difficult to learn? If I was dedicated how long do you think it would take to speak fluently? maybe not perfectly, but to hold a conversation or read and write well.

>>600481
Yeah, almost no words in the English language are spelled phonetically (notice phonetically is not spelled that way). This is where most of the Engrish is from. I think Benjamin Franklin had a plan to have American English spelled phonetically but am unsure.

>>600479

...What the hell is hokkien? Are you some kind of mixed-race?

>>600494
Hokkien = Taiwan/Fujian/Singapore/SE-Asia-Chinese diaspora.

>>600495
Other than language, there no real difference really, All under heaven!

>>600482
chinese has both prepositions and postpositions
猫在桌子上面 - cat is on the table
here 在 is verb and 上面 is postposition

>>600490
With chinese lessons in your own country only - never. Okay if you really put your mind to it, watch movies, listen to music, find people on the internet the hold conversation with etc. then maybe.

Move to chinese speaking country - a year if you dedicated yourself completely

>>600495
Yeah, I just googled the term. Ha, Southern Chinese. By the by, how tall are you?

>>600490

>The Foreign Service Institute (FSI) of the US Department of State has compiled approximate learning expectations for a number of languages. Of the 63 languages analyzed, the five most difficult languages to reach proficiency in speaking and proficiency in reading (for native English speakers who already know other languages), requiring 88 weeks, are: "Arabic, Cantonese, Mandarin, Japanese, Korean". The Foreign Service Institute considers Japanese to be the most difficult of this group.

>>600512
1.8m (I'm overseas-Hokkien-Chinese, so I'm not a farmer).

>>600525
That's pretty impressive given your genetic basis.

Chinese is pretty difficult to learn if you are a Indo-European native-speaker. Not impossible, just takes effort. But you sound as if you are incentivized enough to try.

>>600530

Its not really that impressive since there are heaps of other tall Chinese, especially Northern China being famous for its tall people.

>>600540
True, but you are not one of us... so nicely done!

>>600507
>With chinese lessons in your own country only - never

this is what I was afraid of.. I heard this a lot too.. I think I may have to postpone the lessons until I actually have a chance of going to or actually living in china for some time.. does anyone think this is a good idea? Otherwise id be learning by studying with only one teacher in this small town with no one else to speak the language to. I'm afraid Id end up learning a decent amount and then after lack of use, forget a lot of it..

>>600576
If you're Canadian or American or in some other country with a decent-sized Chinese immigrant population (in a major city, natch), then this is pretty much bullshit. You can learn Mandarin there. Immersion is better, of course, but I wouldn't dismiss a year of introductory classes so you're not starting from scratch the second you hit Shanghai.

Do you know another language? If so, how did you learn that one? Repeat processes that are effective for you.

>>600584
OP here. I live in a city with a population of about 100,000.. the only Asians I've seen are in donut shops and Chinese restaurants. I wouldn't exactly be dismissing the classes.. I'd be able to take them, just not now. I still have great motivation to learn Chinese.. just not sure when.

can't be that hard, mostly just ching chong bing bong

>>600624
You're on the internet. Download Pimsleur Mandarin and learn some basics. It's targeted at Americans but still relevant if you're not among them and don't need to know how to say "I am American." Pimsleur's like a half hour a day. Torrent away.

Learn the serious real Chinese. No faggotrous "Standard Written Mandarin" that is really the Chinese equivalent of making text-speak an official language.

No bullshit, study this book: http://www.archive.org/details/introductiontoli00branuoft . Then you'll impress with your ability to write like a civilised human being and read real literature. You won't regret it.

DO IT FAGGOT

Being able to read and write traditional Chinese, especially literary Chinese, will impress the shit out of people, particularly mainlanders.

>>600646
That book is really really old LOL

>>600646
>>600634
thanks guys Ill check out both of these. torrents a little slow though

>>600490
Mandarin is the general language that English speakers learn and I'm not too sure about it. To a lot of people, it is the easier alternative and most economically sound choice for someone who wants to learn Chinese.

I took the other road and picked Cantonese, because I've grown up around it my entire life. I can understand why people don't even bother with Cantonese learning-wise and economically.

Mandarin has 4 tones and the pinyin system.
Cantonese has 6 tones and jyutping system (which is all messed up) and well as several other Romanized systems.
Bottom line is that you need to learn the grammar vocab before you start reading and writing Chinese.
As someone from the Cantonese point of view, I view both grammar systems like so:
Mandarin: Has a grammar system, but it is a bit strange.
Cantonese: Has somewhat of a grammar system, and TONS of idioms.

Also, as someone who has gone from 4 years of Japanese study and gotten to Level 2 in the JLPT, I can soundly say that Japanese Kanji system works will help you with Chinese Hanzi/honji but you won't be able understand Chinese writing. Some of the characters have the same meanings as their Japanese counterparts but a lot of them also mean something else.

Even though Mainland China uses the simp.honji; it's still a whole system. Whereas, Japanese Kanji is a bit messed up in that, they use a mixture of both Trad. and simp. honji. When I switched to Cantonese from Japanese, I was amazed at what I thought was trad. honji and turned out to be simp. honji. But don't take my word for it!

>>600646
OP here again

wait a minute... are you messing with me
?
lol

>>600683
Good post.

>>600688
I'm not, actually.

If you start learning written Literary Chinese and then pick up Written Mandarin along the way rather than the other way around, you'll impress with your ability to throw in "chengyu" and generally impressive phrases into your written work.

Essentially, what happened in China is that in 1911, Written Mandarin was suddely made the official language. The idea was that Chinese was to be in future written precisely as it was spoken. However, in the real world, the old forms continued to enjoy a higher prestige, and the more of these forms you are able to use in your writing, the more educated your writing appears.

Some simple examples of the classical forms surviving into common use in the modern day are the use of “何” instead of “什麽”， “勿” instead of “別" or “不要" etc.

Essentially what's happened is that a literary form of the language has nominally been replaced by the vernacular, but really what's happened is that the literary has been replaced by an odd mish-mash, the composition of which can be either more literary or more vernacular depending on the situation.

>>600688

:(

The grammar is very flexible. In fact they don't even use definite articles. It may be strange to a foreign learner though, but it's not as hard as Japanese IMO.

It's the reading/writing that requires pure rote memorization. But, characters are broken into components and they get recognizable. For example:

讨，论，课，etc. have a 言（“word') on the left side. This usually indicates that it has to do with language/literature. The 话 in 电话(telephone) means "talk." Telephone literally means "electric talk"

念， 恩，恶(evil)，etc. have a 心 ("heart") somewhere. This has to deal with the heart or emotions.

It's not always as straightforward as that, but this is how Chinese dictionaries are sorted. First look up this component, then the # of strokes it takes (there's a standard)

Chinese grammar is more straightforward than Japanese and Korean

No wars ITT between supporters of 簡 and 繁體字?

/int/, I'm disappointed in you.

>>600646
>>600732
This guy is fucking with you OP, I am Chinese and I would know.

>>600787

Taking Chinese at my college, I feel so bad for the people who choose to write in Traditional. But it's their choice so whatever.

>>600787
I guess we know which side of the fence your ass sits on.

>>600688
Why would you say he's messing with you?

>>600792
>I feel like such a loser for spending years studying these stupid ugly illogical simplified characters, the worst part is that after so many years studying Chinese, I still get lost when I visit HK because I can't read anything. I project my inferiority complex onto people who can read Traditional, and try to convince myself that I made the right choice.

;_;

>>600795
Ahh I dont know... The book just looks a little old thats all. I remember making a similar thread some time on /jp/ and got nothing but insults/people messing with me so I don't know what to expect from some boards.

>>600815
Nobody uses the language like that anymore, it would be the equivalent of learning Old-English(maybe not that arcane but you get the point).

I really hate traditional fags who are butthurt that simplified is dominating the language. Why don't you fucker have your women wrap their feet while you at it.

>>600829
See
>>600732

>>600732
To me, this sounds like you're asking him to start at step 3 and then back track to step 1 and 2 along the way.

I suppose it's "do" able but it seems rather...excessive.

>>600835
NO just fucking NO. This guy is trying to grasp the basic communication ability and you are asking him to start by reading Beowulf.

>>600732
I don't actually disagree with you, but the book you suggested is way too hard.

This book from the same site is probably more OP's level.

http://www.archive.org/details/progressiveexerc00bull

>>600867
Same Fag

hi
israeli here
(inb4 jew, middle east)
i did 3 years of chinese in hebrew u
went to china and did one year in uni
studied hard
now i can read newspapers and troll chinese forums (taiwan independent, japan is superior,,,etc)
i can read both traditional and simplified
also i can read basic japanese (took me 2 weeks to pick up the kana)

i also did 6 years of french in school - can't read , write or speak

These textbooks are the shit.
http://www.worldlanguage.com/Products/Routledge-Chinese-Basic-A-Grammar-and-Workbook-Tutorial-Learni
ng-101780.htm
Routledge is generally always awesome.

What you really should do is get your ass to sharedtalk.com and start learning Chinese from actual people. Taking classes in any language is totally useless if you're not using it.

Learn a real language like American you faggot OP.

>>600829
>I really hate traditional fags who are butthurt that simplified is dominating the language. Why don't you fucker have your women wrap their feet while you at it.

You sound kinda butthurt yourself.

>>600867
no pictures... ;_;

>>600646
I had a look at that book, I don't see how anyone can memorise that shit, seriously WTF

>>600913
Superior Chinese IQ.

>>600829
>Why don't you fucker have your women wrap their feet while you at it.

Sounds hot.

>>600787
>No wars ITT between supporters of 簡 and 繁體字?
Well, you got what you wanted!
>>600793
>>600811
>>600829
>>600907

>>600829
Foot binding is sort of the Godwin's Law of discussions about Chinese traditional culture.

>>600913
>how anyone can memorise that shit, seriously WTF

Writing them out.

Over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over

>is it true it's extremely hard to learn?
Yes.
>Are there a lot of similarities between Chinese and Japanese?
Vocabulary and Chinese characters, yes, especially if you've learned Traditional and not Simplified Chinese. Grammar, no.

Great, just fucking great.

Shitty trolls are the cancer that is killing /int/.