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>>35723110 (OP)
But communism doesn't work. Everything leads back to capitalism.

>>35723110 (OP)
Linux
Magento (online store framework)

communism doesn't work. it never has and never will because of the nature of people. even america tried various forms of communism in the colonial days and they all failed horribly.

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>communism
>working

>>35723129
>>35723157
>>35723179
Your opinions on communism aren't relevant.

OP, I think Cyanogenmod may be an interesting micro-analogue. System initially built by high capitalism (Google), modified and improved by a volunteer community with wider device support and increased focus on freedom/privacy.

>>35723129
>>35723157
>>35723179

ITT: people who don't know what communism is

>using a product that can be distributed with almost zero cost, made without buying any more capital than the people involved already own, requires relatively little work in terms of organization, is fun to make, can be manufactured in infinite quantities with zero work and has a readily available supply of trained workers as an example of how a single body coordinating the activities of every industry in a region can work
not such a good argument bro

>>35723363

see:

>>35723300

Communism works wonders in theory, but as the USSR proved, it's complete shit in reality, anyone else defending communism as a valid form of government doesn't know what communism is.

>>35723300
see
>>35723300

>>35723449
>implying you know what communism is when using ussr as a counterexample
Please do some reading before you feel qualified to participate in a discussion regarding communism

>>35723449
It is great in theory, but it has one fatal flaw. Communism is based on the assumption that human nature is good and selfless, when that is far from reality.

>>35723226
This.

The amount of developers helping out, porting, making their own roms, and providing free content keeps them interested in their work and they see the direct results of their work in the form of forum cred or donations.

People developing free software for phones is a perfect example of workers not being alienated by their job.

The same goes for video game streaming

>>35723399
Okay, but the fact is, software production is incredibly different from producing physical products, and not subject to many of the problems involved in producing them. It's not a good argument for the success of any economic system.

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>>35723449
>Communism works wonders in theory

No, it doesn't. Even on paper communism is shit. It doesn't take real world experimentation to debunk their horribly fucking bad understanding of economics.

If something really is good on paper, it will translate well to real life. If it doesn't, that means the idea on paper was also shit.

For instance, say I make a design for a bridge. Every time someone builds this bridge in real life, it's fucking terrible and collapses. Saying "Well that's not the true bridge, on paper my bridge is wonderful!" is asinine, and the reality is that your ideas on paper were also shit, otherwise the bridge would work in reality.

>I am doing my thesis on why communism works
It doesn't. I ran away from Poland from it, I ran away from UK from it, I ran away from USA from it. Shit looks great in Panama because there is no socialism here.
>I decided to use GNU and free software in general as an example
This isn't communism.

TeX and LaTeX
GCC
OpenBSD
GhostScript
Linux kernel

Read «The Cathedral and the Bazaar».

>>35723129
>>35723157
>>35723179
>>35723449
>>35723485

Implying capitalism works.
Implying America isn't a failed state. (Lol Détroit.)

>>35723544
>It doesn't take real world experimentation to debunk their horribly fucking bad understanding of economics.
Only conjecture about "human nature"

>>35723568
>implying detroit is america

>>35723602
>Implying United States is America

Communism doesn't work, but socialism does.

>>35723655
>huurrrrr fucking durrrr i want to say something

>>35723300
>>35723300
>>35723300

>>35723602

Muh Motor City.
Muh symbol of American capitalist success.

>>35723110 (OP)
>I am doing my thesis on why communism works

Er, yeah, enjoy failing your verbal defence.

>>35723110 (OP)
>doing a paper on why communism works
conveniently enough, it only works on paper
communism falls flat on its face when you add the human element, because there are no safeguards against the inevitable corruption

>>35723689
>It's halftime
http://youtu.be/tFAiqxm1FDA

>>35723655

>Semantics

Central planning always fails, there is not good system of central planning. Since someone's going to say "Scandanavia!", I'm going to leave this here.

http://www.libera.fi/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Libera_The-Swedish-model.pdf

>>35723110 (OP)
GNU & the GPL is not communism. If you were actually a politics student, you'd know what the basic tenants of communism and Marxist theory is and why the GPL isn't. You're just an uneducated troll.

>>35723705
>human nature conjecture

>>35723713
>communism
>central planning

/g/uys, plz
>>35723300

>>35723705

capitalism falls flat on its face when you add the human element, because there are no safeguards against the inevitable corruption

>>35723689
didn't say it was. was trying to say the opposite. model cities and years of idiot governing ruined it and now it's bankrupt

>>35723743
>>communism
>>central planning

Choose both.

>>35723449

Except the USSR never implemented communism. Once the Bolshevik vanguard party siezed power a Stalinist dictatorship was enacted.

Before people start bullshitting about what they think they know about socialism/communism, maybe they should open up a book *other* than the tripe that was shoved down their throat in public school.

>>35723590
but such conjecture is what keeps a smart man from cutting through an alley in detroit

>>35723110 (OP)
free sofware isn't communism faggot
does redhat or canonical or suse share it's revenue with you?

>>35723769
>a Stalinist dictatorship was enacted.

Marxism REQUIRES a period of a dictatorship of the proletariat. Now the THEORY is that it only exists during the transition period, but in practice...

>>35723743
it's not conjecture brah, it's been repeatedly proven that man is a corruptable creature

Dare me to link /pol/ into this thread?

lest you communist shits get butt devastated once again?

communism fails hard in every spectrum, every instance of history
>b...b... NO TRUE SCOTSMAN

you know this is a massive logical fallacy right? Communism sucks ass. End of story.

As a warning I am leaving a sage.

>>35723783
>implying communism is revenue sharing
america, please

>>35723784
>dictatorship of the proletariat
This point has always been under contention, and dictatorship of a collective seems like an intentional contradiction. But that's because Marx was a philosopher who wrote like a philosopher, and people who don't know any philosophy read it like it's Krugman or something.

>>35723758

>implying it falls fat on its face
>implying it isn't survival of the fittest
>implying it doesn't naturally weed out turds who cannot figure out an incredibly easy system

shig

>>35723110 (OP)
But GNU and Free Software support capitalism. Always have, always will. If you want to do a pro-communism paper, write about Adobe and Microsoft

>>35723784

not every leftist is a Marxist, brah

>>35723842
>This point has always been under contention

Sure but beyond Kibbutz's there hasn't been a Communist revolution where that hasn't happened, and at the end of the day how can you seize the means of production and redistribute wealth without someone at the "top" with ultimate authority to do it.

Now, it's easy to argue that the "dictator" doesn't need to be, nor should be, a single person, but in practice it's easy for a single sociopath to convince enough people that it should be. Once you've done that you just stick to pure Marxist theory: the dictatorship must persist until the revolution is complete but there are agitators and wreckers at every turn, meaning the revolution conveniently never ends.

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>>35723826

>>35723897
Yes yes, but we're specifically talking about Communism, which is a direct branch of Marxist theory (& Friedrich Engels. Let's not forget Engels).

>>35723801

> stating internalized 'facts' as though they are infallible

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butthurt murricans... just remember... china will grow larger

>>35723936
it is not a fallacy to admit that even if a man is a saint he is also a sinner

>>35723743
Communism:
>Wealth redistributed so that everyone in society is given equal shares of the benefits derived from labor. All means of production are controlled by the state.

Socialism:
>Wealth redistributed so that everyone in society is given somewhat equal shares of the benefits derived from labor, but people can earn more if they work harder. Means of production are controlled by the workers themselves.

>>35723978
The only difference between Democratic Socialism and Communism is that the Socialists are not committed to revolution to achieve their aims.

>>35723907
So we both agree that improper application of theory leads to failure?
I'm not saying there has been a successful case of socialist revolution (yet), only that it isn't impossible because of misapplications in the past.

>>35723951

>china
>communist

maybe you should occupy a library instead you leftist shill. Read about the chinese economic reforms of the 70s and 90s.

>>35723110 (OP)
p-pula mea, does it work?

>>35723978
>communism
>state
No, son. Both socialism and communism imply worker control over the means of production. Socialism may allow for "earning more" or even a state (depending on how you define state).
Where did you get these definitions?

>>35724015
>So we both agree that improper application of theory leads to failure?

Yes, but that doesn't imply that proper application will lead to success.

>>35723951
china struggles to feed it's population you retarded foreigner.

>>35724015
anarchism will prevail

>>35724152
No, my particular brand of anarchism will prevail!

>>35724096
Agreed. So we should discuss the potential success or failure of communism in theoretical terms only.

>>35724152
imokaywiththis.meme

>>35724179
ok, as an anarchis I believe you have the right to secesion. call your neighbords and build your community in your peace of land. or just build your community in yor peace of land

>>35724184
>So we should discuss the potential success or failure of communism in theoretical terms only.

Theoretically it could succeed.
Theoretically it could fail.

Theoretically Lenin could rise from his tomb and attack the world.

I'm not sure where we're supposed to go with this?

>>35724219
chis*

>>35724219
As an anarchist I believe I have the right to claim your land for my own, kill you and steal all your food.

>>35724230
ok, so it's obvious that there is something worng with my 't', plus ignore the other typos too

>>35724252
>it doesn't work that way faggot
you could try, but hopefully you'd end up isolated by the rest of the communities, or just killed

>>35724289
>it doesn't work that way faggot

In my specific brand of anarchy it does.

>hopefully you'd end up isolated by the rest of the communities

Fuck 'em, we'll kill them too.

>>35723110 (OP)
>trying to prove communism works
>show an example of what not to do

Good job Olav

>>35724320
as I said kiddo, you could try, good luck, etc.
we are more intelligent and better armed
so say we all
>plus I'm adding rape to the things I'd do to you in retaliation

>>35723784
>he thinks Marx meant a literal dictatorship of one or few individuals

You're cute.

>>35724252
>communism works
I laughed.

>>35724252
Too bad most anarchists are little pussies... Come up against someone trained and bye bye. Nobody to protect you either, such a shame.

>>35724075
Nonetheless, socialism allows people to earn more if they work harder- an incentive produced by the want for luxury items.

May I just add to anyone here who thinks capitalism is working beyond acceptable limits: the UN predicts that we have enough food to feed the entire population roughly twice the recommended amount in calories. Just saying. In addition, the UK has around 1,000,000 vacant estates and 2,000,000 families without adequate housing. Yes, the UK is increasing becoming socialist, but that obviously doesn't mean it's there yet and as such, we should only use it as an example for socialism- not against it.

Socialism could get homeless people off the streets, fix unemployment problems, etc.

>>35724409
Oh, and most vacant homes in the UK are privately owned.

>>35724396
define someone trained

In order to make the argument that "communism works", shouldn't you be able to point to a country where it works?

If you made the point that it COULD work if ______, that'd be fine, but as of this moment it has not worked.

>>35723896

Dumbest post of the year, god damn you're a fucking idiot.

>>35724046

No sane leftist would call China communist, he's just an ignorant retard.

>>35724252
>HURR LOOK AT ME I'M A FUCKING COCK SUCKING FAGGOT THAT DOESN'T KNOW ABOUT THE NON-AGGRESSION AXIOM

>>35724371
>we are more intelligent and better armed

No you aren't.

> Isn't it ironic that the proprietary software developers call us communists? We are the ones who have provided for a free market, where they allow only monopoly. … if the users chooses this proprietary software package, he then falls into this monopoly for support … the only way to escape from monopoly is to escape from proprietary software, and that is what the free software movement is all about. We want you to escape and our work is to help you escape. We hope you will escape to the free world.

>>35724375
See >>35723907

>>35724396
>Come up against someone trained and bye bye. Nobody to protect you either, such a shame.

Yes, I know: I am playing devils advocate. I'm also trying to point out that "Anarchism" has the same problem as "Socialism": No True Scotsman and an endless splintering of factions.

If you can't define it isn't a thing.

>>35724509
>THE NON-AGGRESSION AXIOM

That's YOUR brand of anarchism. Splitter.

>>35724533
this >>35724509 already proved we are

>software and a movement that supports free market
>communism

Your thesis is doomed to get rejected from the start.

I once wrote an essay on how strict copyright laws aren't necessary for innovation and used the GPL as an example.

>Communism works!
>No it doesn't. Here look at these examples of countries that have tried communism and become corrupt shitholes as a result.
>Those arent really communist!
>Well of course now they aren't. The point was that attempting communism hurt those countries in the end. Not a single example of communism working.
>Y-you just don't know what communism is!

You people are the worst.

>>35724588
>splintering of factions
for some time, sure, but what is equilibrium

>>35724623
>Someone being mad
>proved

Proved what? It's a fucking hypothetical situation you cum-stain.

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>>35723110 (OP)

>>35724650
>you cum-stain.
sure, and it's me the one who is mad

>>35724646
Dunno, you tell me?

If, under anarchy, I'm free to build my community how I want, and we decide want to build a socialist dictatorship, are we still anarchists?

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>>35723110 (OP)
2/2

>>35724671
>Thinks that's being mad

Oh, bless you.

>>35724641
America is communist and an obvious success.

>>35724676
jesus what a terrible photoshop job... er, I mean GIMP job.

>>35724672
>splintering of factions because ppl is mad
>smaller groups
>hostility
>if you want to pass through my bridge I charge and have the right to rape you wife
>>oh then will construct a dam and bye bye river and water down at your site, enjoy your new gypsy life
>etc...

>nah this is not working, we'll have to cooperate more
>>nah this is not working, we'll have to cooperate more
equilibrium

>>35724641
comunisn was a pain for those countries... look at romania
>now they will suffer the capitalism

>>35724754
Actually was MS Paint. Don't say that I say that.

>>35723896
get a load of this retard.
>hurr free sharing open source = capitalism
>hurr paying for software = communism
I can't describe the ignorance here.
>>>/pol/

>>35724672
you stop being an anarchist when you become an socialist dictator, don't you?

>>35723110 (OP)
I hope you realize the biggest and most successful FOSS projects are driven by capitalism, and that communism doesn't work, nor is any free software project an example of communism.

That being said, you're in college, which means this will be graded by idiotic communist professors, so you should be fine.

>>35724828
a*

>>35724778
So anarchy leads back to what? You call it equilibrium, I call it what we have now: democracy.

Funny, that.

>>35724641

That's why the left is in shambles, it always comes down to petty bickering like this, nothing every gets done. Fuck me.

>>35724845
>what we have now
>democracy
Fuckin' lold
10/10 if troll
7/10 if copypasta

>>35724842
agreed
OP, if you really have to argue for communism, use marriage as an example. sharing resources, equality, etc.
bait thread anyway.

>>35723568
>he thinks America still practices capitalism
>he thinks Detroit, a place of socialist and communist practices for the last few decades is an example of capitalism failing and not socialism/communism failing

>>35724828
Dunno, this is what I'm asking. Do I still live in an anarchist society?

The logical end point of anarchism is a return to feudalism, or possibly socialism: either way, whoever has the most force gets to dominate the others.

Anarchists just stick their head in the sand or throw around terms like "equilibrium", which really means "I have no idea". Or they throw out "Non-aggression", which just means "I have more faith in the human condition than the evidence to support my claims".

>>35724845
10/10 if you are american
9/10 otherwise

>>35724875
agreed