ironically, one of the massive selling points of oracle is that it runs a java vm right in the database and can be both the application and database server.

>i call it squirrel

>>4826866
Firewall certified -> Money.
Almost makes me wish I didn't go to college.

so you're basically getting into debt and spending loads of money for what purpose? to blind yourself staring at a screen of code for 12 hours a day

Do you have any actual EXPERIENCE in networking or programming, or just a handful of pieces of paper showing that you can memorize well enough to pass a multiple-guess test?

If not, Geek Squad here you come.

>>4826957
COLLEGEFAG STATUS: ALWAYS TOLD

>>4826895
hey i like squirrels, and personally i think their better marketing than 'sequel'. lookit tux the penguin, he's adorable thus good PR

but how much PR can you get outta 'sequel'? not a furry mascot giving your shareholders the warm fuzzies thats for sure.

>>4826866
Also: an undergrad is not going to get you much of anywhere at all. Everyone with far more experience than you already has them. Grad school is where you have any actually *hope* of learning & earning something that will actually put you in any sort of positive position.

>>4826967
You make me chuckle.

Don't ask /g/ everyone here is either a help desk retard, macfag designer, or trolling.

im telling myself: phd or gtfo

xD

>>4827002
>> everyone
NOT SO FAST

where are you trying to get a job and where did you get your degree?

>>4826978

English motherfucker, do you speak it?

>>4827012
computer science phds are the definition of waste. stop at a masters.

>>4826978
lies. The difference between a degree and no degree is massive.

>>4826960
in networking the former, in programming, that latter, also geeksquad wont hire me, i've tried, they just never call me back.

fudged up an interview there when i was 16, so now they must see me as some sort of leper.

>>4826976
OK, but anyone who hears you call it squirrel is going to immediately think you are a retard, and won't care about your reasoning behind it. Jesus, have you been saying squirrel at interviews?

>>4827002
Nah.

I am unemployed at the moment though, but it's only been six weeks so far...

>>4826976
The problem is there's already a scripting language named Squirrel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squirrel_(programming_language)

>>4826866
>i flat out blow at Java

Really? College student here and it's what I came in knowing and pretty much all my classes have focused on so far. From what I've gone out and learned on my own, Java seems to be somewhat like C++ but easier.

>>4827048

Is that what he was trying to say? I stopped trying to make out what his point was... maybe since he's unable to express himself without looking like a retard he needs a PhD to get an entry level position and mistakenly thinks education means nothing?

Assuming you have no job experience, you really ought to get your foot in the door at some small consulting company. Experience in this field is everything. Please do not get a help desk job if you can avoid it, you'll ruin yourself. Check around your area with the consulting companies. If they aren't hiring volunteer to intern for free.

>>4827048
This is what idiots actually believe.

>>4827048
Not in Comp. Sci. I can get four years experience and be more employable in the time it takes you to get a bit of paper. Employers want experience. QED.

Now, a Masters might be different, because you have a chance to specialise into something useful.

Every talented coder I've known has had a comp sci degree, but I work with people who have bachelor's or even master's in MIS- they are so fucking incompetent I want to shove their bullshit toilet paper degrees down their throats.

>>4826866
what is so bad about programming?

>>4827103

Almost everyone goes to college, people talk about their college experiences together and have amazing memories from those four years. And msot of us tell HR to just ignore every resume that doesn't say they have a degree (in anything) because 99.9% of the idiots who apply for jobs with 'experience' but no degree pronounce it 'squirrel' and don't know what an outer left join is.

>SQL
>i call it squirrel
doing it wrong

>everyone pronounces it 'sequel',
so are they. must be MSfags or something

ess-que-el

>>4827154

Or even how to select the rows with an ID greater than 5 without needing to 'look it up on google'.... the 'lots of experience' crowd generally has nothing to show for its 'experience'

In both my internships dealing with databases, I've heard it pronounced S-Q-L and Sequel.

I prefer the latter because it sounds so much fucking better.

But never squirrel. Dear god, never squirrel.

>>4827192
>sounds better
s-q-l sounds better

>>4827191
and the 'i have a degree but nothing else' crowd does amazingly stupid things that work well on their home network with 3 networked XP pro machines, but doesn't scale beyond 10 machines on a domain.

In summation:
1) OP doesn't have the skills or experience to land a programming job
2) Even if he was able to dupe an employer into thinking he did, he wouldn't get the job BECAUSE HE CALLS IT FUCKING SQUIRREL
3) Enjoy your unemployment (srsly, you can't get a job with geek squad?)

Everyone that says college is a waste of time is just butthurt that they don't have a degree.

>>4827256

And we ignore people with college degrees and no experience who are not 'just out of college' as much as we ignore people with 'lots of experience' and no college degree. We don't look for mastery of everything in our entry level positions just the ability to do basics, hygiene, basic social skills, and some hint that they're capable of learning and developing.

>>4827103
I worked a full time job all through my university Ungergrad degree as well as my Masters. You have nothing on me. Enjoy your inferiority.

>squirel
10/10. No one would call SQL squirel, unless of course, they don't know what they are doing.

Anyways, a guy with 5 programming experience will crush a recent college graduate in any interview. Both things count.... a university degree only gives a fancy title to carry around, and a proof that you at least know your shit. Experience though, says that you have hands-on experience.

>because 99.9% of the idiots who apply for jobs with 'experience' but no degree pronounce it 'squirrel' and don't know what an outer left join is.

Bullshit, you cannot fake experience. If you walk right in lying about your years of experience you won't get anywhere near a decent job.

The only difference, in most cases, between degree and no degree, is that some companies pay you more if you have a degree.

>>4827022
>where are you trying to get a job
fucking anywhere, i live in Michigan, helpdesk places arnt hiring, geeksquad isnt hiring, small computer stores arnt hiring, any place bigger says 'get a masters or get out' but tech programs in Michigan SUCK

MSU and State both have programs which are heavy on math and science, then tack A+ on the end, im not going to make the damn motherboard from sticks and mud, im going to make the computers talk nice to each other!

>where did you get your degree?
Henry Ford Comunity College, and before you laugh as i might have in my high school days, they were the only guys around who taught things i needed to know, rather than heaps of worthless math, like the cisco stuff, network security, database programming, any acknolagement that linux even existed, much less taught you anything about it in a corporate environment.

of course all the windows stuff goes without saying, the fact that most places offering a bachlors or masters didnt even have that was pretty shocking.

ITT tech just pumped out engineers, im NOT an engineer by any means, i hate math, with a passion. I've never need anything but basic arithmetic for fixing or networking anything, i dont need to know the science of grounding yourself when working on the guts of machines, i just need to know to take cotton off first and grab the damn case.

all my buddies with computer jobs got em through family, all my family members are white-collar cubical workers (managing warehouses, accounting, marketing, that sort of thing) and cant really help outside advice and resume revision.

>>4827048
If your degree was from a school with a previously recognized strength in the department you studied AND your degree is in said department is directly relative to what job you are applying for.

tl;dr Your Fine Art degree literally means nothing.

>>4827327
>> Comunity College
You paid for a worthless ASSOCIATES degree and can't figure out why you can't get a professional career? Really? Go to university AT LEAST you FUCKING IDIOT.

>>4827327
This is what ignorant wannabe ricerfags actually believe.

>>4827327
you are shit at networking if you can't do binary math in your sleep

another note, i call it squirrel among my tech buddies, im not dumb enough to fuck up an interview with it, i say S-Q-L when donning business clothes.

>>4827325

>> Bullshit, you cannot fake experience. If you walk right in lying about your years of experience you won't get anywhere near a decent job.

Which is why we tell the HR people to fucking ignore people who only have 'experience', we don't want to waste time 'interviewing' retards and then dealing with their constant call backs to tell us how well they think the interview went, and we don't like the fighting off the urge to ask them 'you're a fucking retard, why did you apply for this job? why do you lie on your resume? what the fuck is up with wasting my time?'

>> proof that you at least know your shit
That's cute that you think respectable colleges graduate people with degrees in their name with anything less than proof of ample experience. You really do not know anything about any university beyond the shit-tier.

>> Companies pay you more if you have a degree.
All the more so if you have your masters. You know what's the worse part of that, though? The people who come in >>ENTRY<< level from a respectable college make more money than people who DO NOT have a degree even at the fucking UNDERGRAD LEVEL. Oh Shit. What happens when educated people get more experience? They become your boss.

>>4827384
its arithmetic, not calc, of course i can do it in my sleep, calc stuff is fucking worthless to me, if i ever need to find the slope of something to live, i will welcome death with open arms

>>4827408
I laughed. That has got to be the freshest shit I have heard in the entire month of June.

>>4827437
>> calc "stuff" is fucking worthless
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

>>4827461
this is the part where you make a real point

>>4827431

There are a few tech firms where that doesn't apply... but they don't get the job by applying cold, they need to network like crazy putting feelers out all over the place. If they understood what things would be like if they had a college degree they would regret not spending another four years after high school partying it up with like minded individuals.

>>4827490
Sounds like he sure got told.

Seriously OP though, I recommend trying to get a job at a public/private school (you may have more luck at a private school tbh) as a network specialist until you make enough money to pay off your student loans and gain some experience. Paying that debt off right away is the most important thing, you should never ever let debt build up, it can fuck your whole life over. Most schools are in need of anyone with network know-how, and aren't as likely to turn you away, because they honestly need all the workers they can get.

I call it SKULL

Lol you're screwed OP, enjoy flipping burgers.

>>4827580
Is this actually a good idea? I've always heard schools are hard to land jobs at because they are crazy about 'having experience' even more so than companies.

>>4827146
>what is so bad about programming?
i just dont like it, i've got a bad memory, which leads to numerous syntax errors i've got to comb over. That and its monotonous work with no human interaction outside the suit that pays you, and he's going to be a dick every time.

If you can do programming work, fantastic, thumbs up, i cheer for your victory, i can do programming, but i learn it slower, make more mistakes, and just dont enjoy any part of the process.

the most fun i ever had was a contract gig i did at some little underwriting company, make a mac, a win2k server, 3-4 xp machines, and 2 red hat boxes talk, make em back up automatically, make em all print, make em go out the wall, make sure the router doesnt bark back at em, nothing difficult by any means

i guess the last guy there was a manager's son and he made quite a mess, spent more time fixing his shit than if i had to start from scratch, I did the work and told em what i was doing as i was doing it, it was great, they thought i was some sort of computer god (before you bash me for being conceited, i dont share this opinion, you will anyway, but its nothing i dont expect)

i have no idea why they never called me again, maybe that managers son brightened up or something.

inb4 'he got a masters, you dumbfuck'

ess-queue-elle = newbs
sequel = oldfags
what the fuck is this shit? = /g/

not op here, but I also enjoy networking though I end up in programming job because there is more opportunity for developing career working in software development. There is only so far you can take networking unless you get very specialist in my experience.

>>4827490
That would require a context to begin with. :-)
Laughing at complete ignorance requires nothing more than a sense of humor and an appreciation for the things idiots say.

>>4827919
You are not knowledgeable in regards to the subject you are commenting upon.

>>4828006
what networking?

>>4827896
>> the suit that pays you, and he's going to be a dick every time.
If you suck at getting things done.
My bosses fucking love me.
I am the only employee they have that accomplishes anything. Better yet, I complete tasks in three hours that other people in the division of the company have been working on for over a year.

The truth is: you are not cut out for this field of work. Go back to McDonald's and try to remember to ask "Do you want fry's with that?"

>>4827918
a predecessor (though not ancestor) to SQL was an IBM project called Structured English Query Language, otherwise called sequel. Later they ratified SQL, and at the time they had a great need to differentiate them, hence a big pedantry about the pronounciation.

dBase ii
WordPerfect5.1
Lotus123

>>4828047
that's not true. SEQUEL became SQL, and the vowels were dropped because some other company (aircraft, i think) had a trademark.

>>4828076
sequel is not sql

>>4826866
why cant yo get a job in networking? im about to start CCNA / other cisco courses.

>>4828090
for historical purposes, it is

The first version of SQL was developed at IBM by Andrew Richardson, Donald C. Messerly and Raymond F. Boyce in the early 1970s. This version, initially called SEQUEL, was designed to manipulate and retrieve data stored in IBM's original relational database product, System R. IBM patented their version of SQL in 1985,[4] while the SQL language was not formally standardized until 1986 by the American National Standards Institute (ANSI) as SQL-86. Subsequent versions of the SQL standard have been released by ANSI and as International Organization for Standardization (ISO) standards.

>>4827972
the context is there, its
>i dont need calc, at all, ever, for networking

the proper response is, "this is untrue for the following reason(s):"

rather than
"spam spam spam, u r dumb" without saying why it is ignorance or why you find the person in question an idiot, thats just trolling, so i'll encourage you to make your case, i'd love to hear it, unless your a troll, in which case well done, you got me, golf clap, now go away.

>>4828096
from what i've read here, lack of experience and community college rather than real college, got the CCNA CCNP and CCIE, apparently its worthless compared to the previous points

that and i've combed over all the job hunting sights, and they keep saying
interviewer:'are you a programmer?'
me: no...
interviewer: 'are you a software engineer?'
me: no...
interviewer: 'are you a web designer?'
me: no...
interviewer: 'have you been doing corporate networking for a decade or more?'
me: only 4 years
interviewer: 'please die in a fire'

they then politely direct me to the nearest fire and offer me my choice of kerosene or good old fashion gas

Join the military.

They have this student loan repayment thing. I don't know bout the other branches but with the Air Force you can get up to $11,000 towards your loans, just by enlisting. But if you choose this option you can't get the GI Bill later.

>>4828271

Do this and tell your family to post here when your death has lowered the price of our gas

Oh wait, it won't. But you'll make rich people richer.

Lawl /g/ career advice

>>4828122
Thank you. I was trolling you.
I was also right and you are actually a dumb ass.
:-) linklaugh.jpg
http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GGLS_enUS329US329&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=calculu
s+networking

>>4828394

Just pick a job in the military where you have almost no chance whatsoever of being deployed.

>>4828122
If you even took basic Applied Calculus I [for retards who are bad at math], you would instantaneously see the direct relevance calculus holds to ALL THINGS INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY

>>4827100
This is what ignorant high school drop outs actually want to believe because they are so fucking stupid they couldn't get a scholarship in order to gain experience while simultaneously gaining a college degree from a well known & respected college technical institute. Oh.

Pro tip: unless you're going for bottom of the barrel job like Geek Squad, employeers are going to read AAS on your resume and immediately toss it out unless you've got some really nice ass experience under your belt (which obviously is not the case).

Like mostly everything, you gotta work your way up.

>>4827308
/thread

>> Calculus is useless
As a Network Architect of Unisys: this is incorrect. If you would like to verify what everyone is telling you here, attempt writing IT companies and request from them what set of education and skills they are looking for in employees. Ask them specifically if calculus studies will be of any use to you.

Secondly: Buy the following book. It is extremely useful and very informative.
http://www.amazon.com/Net-Work-Practical-Creating-Sustaining/dp/0750682973/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&s
=books&qid=1245718881&sr=1-11

>>4828106
Cool story, bro. I love wikipedia!

>>4828484
hmm, im tempted to take you up on that challenge, it may also be a very expensive troll attempt but what the hell

>>4828468
that is yet more engineer stuff, i dont need to know the packet scale rate guarantee algorithm to know that three hops are better than fucking four or cat 5e > cat 5

throw a practical problem at me that i need higher math to solve, anybody, this is an open challenge to refute the way i've learned things for the past 4-5 years, fire away.

You just have to make your own way. People on here act like they are technology gods and if your not on par with them you fail at life. But in actuality I know people without college degrees that are working as programmers making 60+ a year. With an AAS you will have to work your way up as they said but that doesn't mean you have to start at geek squad either.

>>4828630
>> that is yet more engineer stuff
No, it is not.

>>4828034

>implying someone posting on 4chan is any better than the retard at mcdonalds

Ignore all these people OP. Find a job that pays a shit ton, and then laugh at the people who waste years at college and years working under the boot of some boss at some company just to make less than 100,000 a year. My job pays 10 grand a month, I own a venue, and I am working on a record store. All it takes is an idea, some saved money and some investors (in my case, friends that trust I will pay them back).

Don't let some pale, floppy man-boobed, unimaginative do-nothing tell you you deserve to be flipping burgers when you can laugh in their face just as easily for settling for a boring, hierarchical, meaningless job after years of college and thousands spent.

>>4828630
What you want to do is often called Network ENGINEERING. You need some engineering knowledge. Also some programming knowledge is going to help. A good sysadmin can script repetitive tasks to remain efficient.

>>4828655
The people you know, unlike OP, have spent a great deal of time studying and getting certified. I personally never finished my undergraduate degree, yet I make 15K a month. How? Once I realized I fucked up after wasting a ton of my life working as a chef, I knew what I had to do. The option of university was not an option for me, because I was in a fucked situation. I focused on certifications. Now I have a resume larger than you would believe if I honestly fucking told you. My certifications are listed back to back to back with commas in between, fill paragraphs, and are organized by the category by which they apply. It took my over a decade to accumulate all of my certifications and it is finally paying off.

Also, OP, learn your calculus.

>>4828664

A person could have three PHDs and 40 years of experience and /g/ would say "lawl enjoy flipping bergers"

>>4828664
Your dreams of grandeur are hilarious.
Enjoy failing and please remember my smiling face when you fall flat on your face as the real world chimes "time's up" and beats your ass into the ground. :-)

Also: You pretending everyone's life is as shitty as yours yours will only welcome self-pity whilst everyone else looks at you like a fucking failure. Many of us actually work hard for a living and put in a lot of study to get to where we are today.

>>4828739
Actually it sounds like he probably works really hard.

>>4828577
hot damn, something useful and informative that isnt insulting and possibly misleading. i've got my 1-10 ratio of good posts to bad squared away.

So now i guess i'll have to grab that book, get into a proper university (which might or might not be easy, got a 3.7 in college, but a 2.2 in high school, i was very unmotivated then), and try to get an entry level job in the meantime.

>>4828271
this would be a good idea, except i wouldn't survive basic, my chest is messed up (ribs deformed, pressure on heart/lungs), cant run for shit. thanks for the support tho.

>>4827580
now thats a fucking good idea, i havnt tried that yet, i actually have a few buddies who are teachers, english teachers, but no ones perfect. maybe they can help get my foot in the door.

going to reseach universities again, to those who helped, thanks, to those who didnt, thanks, it was entertaining.

>>4828748
In reality he's likely piggybacking on his friends wallet with no idea what the fuck he's doing, if he's doing anything other than vastly inflating and/or overestimating the reality of matters.
>> Find a job that pays a shit ton
~ Those just fall from the sky without competition from anyone far superior to OP!

>>4828754
ITT: I was all samefag.

>>4828778
Meh if his venue is actually bringing in money it's quite possible he's already paid his friends back and he probably has if he's expanding into a new business. It isn't that hard to go into business for yourself if you have the head for it.

It's possible he's lying too, but in an anonymous setting I usually take what people say for face value because there's no use second guessing it unless it's completely outlandish, which what he said wasn't.

>>4828797
>>4828778
Though you were right about that last part, that was a foolish thing to say.

>>4827099
This. My IT program under the Georgia university system REQUIRES an internship.

However, the market is current largely focused on web services and procedually generated html. Learn a server side scripting language or two (asp, php). Also, market your C/C++ knowledge EXTENSIVELY. You have no idea how valueable these non-interpreted/compiled/low level languges are, especially in an environment where the pontential number of simultaneous users of a single piece of hardware or service can number in the thousands.

On that note, read some works by Michael Abrash.

>>4828664
going into debt is STUPID, for any reason.
especially this one. Remember the dot-com bubble?

At my company they make the programmers play network tech anyway. They hate it and they're no good at it, but management thinks they're qualified and cheaper than hiring someone new.

>>4826866
is .NET actually used or has it gone the way of COBOL? i was considering taking .NET classes.

>>4829006
like a home mortgage? or a car loan? that kind of debt?

>>4828792
Masterful.

>>4829187
It's used all the time.

>>4829203
Yes. If you can't afford it. You shouldn't be fucking buying it. Why the fuck is that so hard for underage b&'s to grasp these days? Fucking idiots. You are obviously oblivious to how many people a day I talk to who still have not learned this fucking lesson -- even as I'm informing them that they are being kicked out of their fucking houses and their cars are going to get repossessed if they don't fucking pay us the money they owe us that they don't have.