>>28165487 (OP)
>Entry level job that requires expertise
What they really mean is "if you are applying for this job, you had to have started in a similar field when you were 16 and we could pay you 25% of the minimum wage".

Capitalism.

because those people exist and they'd prefer them to someone with no experience

whats so hard to understand aboot that?

It's not written in absolutes, if you send a good CV and personal letter they might be interested.

>>28165494
It's not just one job, it's pages full of this bullshit.

>>28165511
This anon is right, only a sith deals in absolutes.

>>28165504
Because it's becoming increasingly difficult to seek entry-level positions.
Such is life in an employer's market.

This is why I took extra lessons at university exclusively in SQL and database admin, otherwise there's nothing to differentiate most CS grads.

"Yeah, I don't have a resume, professional contacts, or a portfolio of my previous work, but please hire me! I'm really good with 'puters! Just ask /g/!"

If it's really that hard to understand, OP, maybe you should pick an easier field. Like factory work.

>>28165487 (OP)
Because nobody can do nothing nowadays. They're done with hiring dozens of "promising" retards that can't get shit done and think they're computer mustahs because they've beaten Half Life on hard.

>>28165529
Well, the only reason I'm employed now the guy who runs the interviews are a die-hard Half Life fan.

Stop spouting bullshit, Half Life is good for your career.

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>>28165518
thanks bro

>looking for a job as wed dev/designer
>told them i have been writing web applications since 15
>point them to my portfolio site
>be hired

>>28165522
Entry level positions are easy to get if
-> You are of an age that doesnt need to be paid minimum wage
-> You are someone who did the above four years ago

>>28165528
I have a resume, a portfolio and professional contact recommendation letters, but those don't equal 4 years (or 5 years) experience in <niche branche of job>. I've got a very broad knowledge base, and I don't afraid of learning new shit, otherwise IT wouldn't be for me. You can't just wishfully think for "experience", when nobody is going to hire people without experience.

File: 1349781179193.png-(249 KB, 286x200, 1349587876721.png)

Those are just deterrents for idiots like you who don't know they really don't matter

>>28165567
>I have a resume, a portfolio and professional contact recommendation letters

Then you should have no issue finding work in your given expertise.

>>28165553
And you're fucked if you didn't. Most underage& job opportunities are typical shit like fast food restaurants and supermarkets.

>do apprentiship for a year
>get offereed a job
>stay there for 2-3 years
>all qualifications and exams being paid for by them
>leave and get a better job at the end of it
it's not even that hard

>>28165588
Except even they aren't hiring...

>>28165596
>did apprentiship for a year
>get promissed a job
>don't hear from them for 3 months
>get call to come and do job interview
>goes well, says she'll contact me in 2 days
We're 2.5 weeks later now, my anus is starting to sweat.

>>28165619
Call them back you goddamn idiot.
Chances are high they forgot about you.

>>28165619
It sounds like their M.O. is to wait a while before giving word on potential employees.

I would give her a call and ask what's up and see where they are on your offer.

That is, if you haven't already lost the job to someone who knows the get-a-job routine already.

>>28165644
>Call them back
>Oh we'll call you if position is available

Everywhere

>>28165659
Then figure out what you're doing wrong. What have you done in every single interview to be passed over constantly?

Worst case scenario is you could try to find an internship somewhere in a field you're interested in. The pay is shit and they'll treat you worse than dirt, but it's viable experience.

>>28165714
They don't even ask name when I give a call back... I ask if I can speak about interviews and they all say this same bullshit.

>>28165714
Internships are never paid in my country.

That's why socialism wasn't that bad.
EVERYONE had a job and a home.

>>28165734
Same here Anon, and it's slowly killing me.

>>28165587
Have you not looked for a job within the last 5 years?

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>>28165825
>3DPD

>>28165487 (OP)
lolinorite

I'm looking for STUDENT work placement and they're asking for industry experience. So, basically, they want experience in order to get experience, hahaha, the current state of the job market is such a fuck up.

BTW, I can't graduate without experience, which leads one to ask... where does one get "industry experience" from?

>>28165825
moar!

>>28165825
any pics of her with less clothes?

>>28165825
>>>/b/
>>>/tv/

>>28165847
>I'm looking for STUDENT work placement and they're asking for industry experience.

If someone ever did that to me I would light their offices on fire.

>>28165804
I have one.

Why? Because I have a resume, a portfolio, and professional contacts from my last line of work.

Come talk to me about getting a job when, you know, you actually HAVE one.

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>>28165871

>>28165519
10/10

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>>28165890
That's the thing, if people aren't hiring him, he can never come and talk to you about getting a job.

Why not do personal projects, then

That counts as experience, right?

>>28165936
Because HR people don't care? So that only works if you either get a job with a big enough department that the manager is also an engineer, or you get a job with a business small enough not to have a HR department.

HR people only care about prior experience, they don't even give a fuck if it was coding PHP and you're applying for DSP with ARM devices.

>>28165936
see >>28166011
I have 3 years of experience/personal projects, they are part of my portfolio and HR interviewers often see it as a plus. However, they have no openings, I don't get why they even put up listings.

>>28166027
>HR interviewers often see it as a plus
Only true if they know their shit, most HR people infact do not and this is quite evident through some of the job postings in my area.

Your best chance is to score an interview with the lead engineer.

Honestly if you're a smart person and can actually do a good job and you know your shit, I'd not turn my nose up at offering to work for a few days, maybe a week and demonstrate that you're capable.

Employers want to hire someone they know can do the job, that's all, prove you can do it and you'll be hired in a second. Don't put yourself above demonstrating your skills for a few days for free, that's how I got my IT job.

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>>28166110
If they don't have the budget for another employee, they'll let you "display" your skills. At the end they'll say something like "we'll contact you when we get a spot for you", that's the last you'll ever hear from them.

Current work market is fucked.

>tfw you worked for free for them and they don't even hire you

>>28166110
>I'd not turn my nose up at offering to work for a few days, maybe a week and demonstrate that you're capable.
I wish this was the case.

Even if, come to think of it, it'd take a week to learn how to do the job in the first place. Unless I had direct experience, like unless I've already done the project before, I doubt I'd be productive within a week. I doubt anyone would

>>28166156
this.

I'm in the same boat as OP. I'm 24 and have maybe 1 and a half years' total work experience. Basically I'm fucked.

I love being NEET though.

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>>28165936
Because I name variables like $_GET['niggers'] and make comments that look somewhere in between schizophrenia and tourettes.

>>28166203
If you're a girl, you're the most interesting girl I've ever had the grace of trying to imagine.
If you're a boy, you're quite retarded.

>inb4 sexism
Yep.

Because most people are morons and even though they complete a degree they aren't capable of adequately doing even an entry level job. And even though some people aren't morons, the companies don't want to take the chance and won't hire anyone unless they can get reviews from previous employers. The underlying problem here is that it's too easy to complete a degree.

>>28166299
The problem is the companies being capable at judging their candidates propperly.

>Not opening your own IT business

What's the matter? Hate America?

File: 1349785807475.jpg-(83 KB, 550x538, obongo.jpg)

>looking for front end web development internships
>unpaid internship
>requirement: 4-5 years experience

It's because university/college is shit and companies don't want to pay for on-the-job training.

they don't want to train you. this is why we go to college. (not that it really matters, haha, it's all who you know - not what you know)

>>28166351
That this sort of thing is unsurprising is depressing.

File: 1349786279019.jpg-(109 KB, 725x677, resume.jpg)

don't be in IT
it's full

Holy fuck I'm not even looking to go to college and I know you need on the job experience for pretty much everything.
Welcome to the real world. Get an internship and hope your student loans don't accumulate too much.

Chemical engineering is the field to be in. My friends in the field are raking in money.

File: 1349786566179.gif-(1.64 MB, 314x178, 1347635583924.gif)

>Know COBOL
>1,000,000,000,000$/yr and any job I want

>>28165768
Wait, the US had socialism? When? Isn't the country ruled by capitalism since ever because nobody likes to think?

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>>28166489
>Implying that socialism is a well thought out form of Government.

>Intern for a month at a computer shop
>Boss said he would hire me part time because of my hard work
>other tech asks if I'm still an intern. Say no. Asks when I switched from tech to intern. Say last week. Asks if I'm getting paid say yes. Asks how much. I say 9 and realize that slipped.
> other tech says he makes 8.50
> I think I may get fired today for accidently saying how much I make.

>>28166510
>socialism
>government

How easy is it to forge your own business and completely bypass this shit? I don't mean writing a blog and surviving with ad money, something more physical.

>>28166542
"socioeconomic system"

>>28165501
>>pay you 25% of the minimum wage
yeah thats not legal.

>>28166510
Here it is. 6% unemployment rate (less than the US lel) and richest country in the region. Probably 3% are lazy women who marry rich old guys. We haven't been affected by that retarded crisis, don't have debts and don't need an army worth 50% of the country.

>>28166523
You can get fired for that? Wow, you americans truly are slaves to the corporate.

>tech is hobby
>better coder than many devs I know
>went to med school
>doctor
>neurologist
>160k/year
>private clinic
>don't actually have a boss

Slave away, while I continue to be master fucking race.

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>>28165519
But isn't that an absolute?

>>28166489
yeah because letting lazy people sit in their asses while good people work is a perfect system right?

>>28166605
so proud of a country that you won't even name

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>>28166605
>We haven't been affected by that retarded crisis
Everyone has.

>don't have debts
[citation needed]

>don't need an army worth 50% of the country.
No one does. Military spending should be cut to almost nothing. The US isn't easy to invade and we have more than enough military hardware already to defend ourselves against anyone in the unlikely event we do get invaded.

>Thinks nanny state Governments that take care of everything for you are good and viable in the long term.
>mfw

>>28166631
Don't raise lazy people then.

>>28166660
People will become that way over time. When people realize they dont need to work they wont. its human nature

>>28166469
I know COBOL, but I rather flip burgers than be forced turning 15 year old COBOL into Java.

>>28166649
>>28166656
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chile#Economy

>PhD in NEET
>any board I want
>300 autismbux starting

>>28166155

Most places aren't going to take you on for just a few days only to blow you off with no chance of a job, if they're genuinely looking to fill a position and you come in and do a few days work and you're capable you'll get the job, if you're a total newb then you won't.

>>28166156

It's not a case of being productive, it's a case of demonstrating you're capable and reliable, they're not looking for results they're looking for a whole lot more than that.

Proving you can turn up on time, look smart, adopt quickly to a new environment, pay attention to detail, get on well with co workers, display a bit of business savvy and initiative, not just live inside the confines of your particular field...

6 years ago I worked a free week for a business, and now I run the IT dept for our UK office and decide who to hire, the secret is that managers and bosses are just humans minimizing risk when hiring, all that bullshit red tape is just trying to weed out the useless cunts, but fact is at the end of the day a CV and interview will not tell you if someone is tardy, shy in the work place, or even a nice person to work along side.

When so many people have CS degrees and know their stuff, it's the little things that set you apart from other job candidates.

Am I willing to give someone a chance who comes in and works a few days for free and demonstrate to me they're capable? Fuck YES! There's no better guarantee someone is competent than actually seeing them work.

Spend less time tweaking your CV to what people have told you looks good and start thinking what you'd want from an employee if you were in the position of hiring someone, and you have the CEO or a manager to answer to if the person hired makes a mistake.

>>28166605
>don't need an army

Wow, what a delusional faggot. Are you Brazillian or something? Seems to fit your description. Anyway, why do you think the US is a technological superpower? Because private companies?

All the shit you and everyone else uses today was originally made for war. Shit like computers, GPS, the Internet. Why do you think Germany got so fucked over after 1st World War? Because it lost territory? No, because it couldn't rearm itself.

To have a shitty military is synonymous with having a shitty economy and shitty technology. Hope you're proud of your country, retarded gaylord.

And I'm not even American.

>>28166753
>why do you think the US is a technological superpower? Because private companies?
Yes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_martin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_labs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox
etc. etc.

>>28165487 (OP)
>PhD in /g/
>any OS I want
>300 bitcoins starting

>>28166609
>hospital smell
No thanks. I'll get sick even without all the viruses floating around.

>>28166734
tl;dr

>>28166753
Germany was The technological superpower in world war 1.It still ,lost in world war 2.
Certain 3rd world countries have large armies,yet have shitty economy.Why is that i wonder?

>>28166734
Nice info, thanks

>>28166897
Germany was The technological superpower in world war 2.It still ,lost in world war 2.*

>>28166897
They didn't lose because of their technology. The Russians simply used strategy to successfully defend themselves until winter, breaking up blitzkrieg formations and stalling. They then fought right at home while Germen were dying of hunger and cold.

They had no choice really. Despite conquering basically all of Europe, Hitler's shit was based on element of surprise. If they didn't take over Russia all at once, they might never.

Anyway, in the 30s-80s south america is dominated by fascist-like regimens. Lots of technology that was used in war became consumer goods, like the examples I've cited. South america has shitty consumer market, and totalitarism drove the pay even lower. That shitty market is here even to this day.

Why don't we start an online /g/- support website, where we charge people for shit they could have googled?

>>28167091
Well when you're alone against the entire world you're going to lose no matter what.

>>28166734

If my department were to weed out all of the people who don't bother showing up on time, we'd be short all of our top talent. This has been the case for anywhere I've worked, and is becoming more and more so as ubiquitous high-speed internet, smartphones, and other technology is turning the workday into a 24/7 affair, not shift work like a fucking manufacturing plant. Anyway, being a micromanaging cunt with your eyes on your watch is the quickest way to alienate talent.

Having people work for free or even on a week's contract is useless in any place I've been, as ramping up a new hire on the environment they're expected to help unfuck (or in some fantasy world, keep unfucked) takes weeks or even months. Meanwhile, project work slows down as the team integrates the new hire.

Oh wait, you also want folks to look smart and display business savvy. You're a fucking consultant, aren't you?

If only I had the job I wanted.
People say "you get the job you deserve", that's such bullshit.

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>>28166734
thanks
>>28166753
you are such a fag, kill yourself please

>>28167357
What's wrong with consultants?

>>28167312
Because you're an asshole and retard do not pay assholes to treat them like shit. [spoiler]Except the goverment, but that's another matter.[/spoiler]

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>>28167498
I'm not an asshole, I'm sorry good sir.

They don't actually expect shit of you.

send your resume in and never stop impressing.

>>28167562
Then what's the point of putting "requires x years of experience"?

>>28167590
Being assholes, making people feel as horribly unhappy as you are.

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All this information hinges on you NOT having a job already.

For people who want to transition into IT. Basically fucking impossible unless you know someone.

NO chance of working for free because you're occupied with your current job.

Even if you go to night school to get a degree, you won't be able to intern or get exp because of the job you already have.

It's not set up for people who already have full-time jobs and need them to pay rent and bills.

They really should set up aptitude tests everywhere so it's not just..."5 years of experience and a degree needed" everywhere.

So many good people are currently employed in the computer industry without a degree or cert. If they had our standards today...they'd be fucked.

Also...OP is 100% correct. Desktop Support, PC Tech, Tech Support, any starter job fucking requires a CS degree and 4 years experience. Whoever is doing the hiring for IT these days are pure mongoloids.

>>28167590
I don't honestly know, but they usually weed out a shitload of people by doing it, and chances are they're not going to find that person with 4 years of experience looking for some junior position that doesn't pay that well. Guess what they do then? They choose someone anyway.

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>>28165847
have someone vouch for you then

Employers are douchbags if you try to deal with them one on one because they hold all the cards. I am going to talk to my uncle about getting into the steamfitters union even though I have an engineering degree and have my own PC repair business

>free training
>job can't be outsourced
>safe from being done by robots for the foreseeable future
>union keeps me from getting dicked over by employers
>union has their fingers in politics at all levels
>free beer at meetings/events

I met some of my uncle's co-workers. They were all bros in the 40's and 50's. I should have joined them when I was 18 rather than going into debt to get an engineering degree that is worthless without experience that I can only get by having an engineering job.

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>>28165487 (OP)

Because you are a stupid sack of shit.

Almost nobody starts out working at the level of degree they have right away.

Besides me ofcourse, I did a custom course. Had the school set certain specifications and full pay and did 40 hour work as Junior IT-manager + all school work for 2.5 years.

Now I'm done and I'm rolling in dosh.

3 years relevant work experience really is the minimum. Starters aren't worth shit.

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>>28167636
I know this, and I've applied for a Junior position at a well known firm, I'd have to start helpdesking but IDC at this point. The interviewer was very impressed, the talk went very smooth and that same evening I was called - they said "sadly they are currently full on entry levels, otherwise you'd be hired".
All of dat crushed hope followed by anger.

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>>28167624

Wrong. I reject people like OP all day.

Starters (people who just got their degree) don't have a fucking clue how the business world works.

Most of them are juvenile as can be, and require a lot of human resources to shape up for the work they would be required to do.

If you set the bar to 3 years relevant work experience (no internship shit) you filter out 95% shit and save a fuckload of time.

>>28167479

More often than not they are only capable of giving sales presentations and sending ridiculous emails full of buzzwords and little substance. When it comes time for them to actually do something and earn their fee, they disappear into the woodwork.

There are some who aren't shit, of course, but typically that's because they have one or two superstars. The smart consulting firms realize the value of those people, and reward them accordingly.

>>28165847

We were looking for a student intern some months ago, but got no bites because we're located in the middle of bumfuck, and students often don't have cars in this area. That's possibly my company's #1 problem in retaining talent right now (well, aside from not paying as much as companies who are also better located, which wasn't as much of a problem back before we buttoned down and went from hipster to corporate in a few months), and I keep pushing for a satellite office downtown, but it'll never happen.

>>28167725

>engineer
>unemployed

Which field did you go into?

Did you go to a decent school?

You should try to at least get some shit experience and transition up, engineering jobs are solid as fuck once you get your foot in the door.

>>28167826
You also slowly kill the labour market.

Silly baby boomers.

>>28167928
capitalism

>>28167928

Well we're kinda fucked, employers can only do that right now since there are actually people with years of experience looking for any job. I don't blame them for choosing the experienced guy over someone less experienced. It's just a product of the economy.

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>>28167928

The jokes on you, I'm fucking 27 years old.

This is how it has always worked, if you are a starter without proper experience you start out at the lowest rank and work yourself up in the field.

The difference is that nowadays shits with a degree refuse to work below the level their degree indicates.

>>28167971

Well they are going to shoot themselves in the foot in 20 years when all the baby boomers are gone and all thats left are a bunch of people with no expierence but with a degree.

>>28167990

Yeah. No.

This "Experience vs Job" cycle is not new.

>Industry Software engineering jobs
>All request Comp sci degrees
>ignore software engineering degrees
Anybody can be a code monkey son, anybody.

>>28165487 (OP)

I usually hire people with 0 experience. The good thing is I don't have to pay them a lot.

But I do test for skills. I get them a few pages of programming contest tasks, and hours with a laptop connected to the internet. We record what they did, and if they did solve the problem by themselves, and in a satisfactory manner, I know I've hit the jackpot:

- an awesome programmer for almost no money, and no other options but to accept my offer of employment

This is how I exploit the sheer dumbness of companies who don't know that

Intelligence is a greater predictor of workplace performance than experience.

>>28167906
Chemical engineering

>You should try to at least get some shit experience and transition up

Been looking for that for the last year. People keep saying that want someone with more industry experience for low level jobs like lab techs. Networking is turning up the same results; they all expect me to work somewhere else for a few years before working for them. The only viable option at this point is to look for a career in another industry. The time I am spending looking for work now can be better spent starting a career in another industry

>>28167984
Working below what you will be doing also means jack shit as it isn't in the related type of work.

>>28167826

You're just shit at picking talent and training new hires. I've hired fresh graduates and it's gone swimmingly.

>>28166787
>implying their best research wasn't government funded in some way
ARPA, have you heard of it motherfucker?

>>28168034
DUDE WHAT

HOW ARE YOU UNEMPLOYED IN CHEME?

Are you fucking retarded, you graduated with a degree in Chem E, arguably one of the hardest majors, and you can't figure out how to get a job?

And you think it's a better option to give up and look in another industry?

This shit ain't logical.

Where the fuck did you go to Uni/College?

>>28167357

I don't keep strict hours, generally speaking it's a bit of give and take as it makes sense to have a flexible working relationship between staff and management where possible, a lot of IT work happens out of hours.

The point isn't to alienate talent the point is to make sure that the person you're hiring has more skills in the work place than just the ability to do whatever their degree says they can do, it doesn't matter if you got a 1st in your CS degree, if you turn up 30 minutes late and in that time something went wrong you were responsible for that's pretty serious problem.

You miss the point here, if we're talking about a position that's looking for people fresh out of college/uni which is a much sought after job, you're probably not pushing that intern into a high risk situation, if you are, you're probably an idiot.

Remember this problem stems from a lot of IT talent now being in the market and there being high demand for entry level jobs which allows the employers to be picky about who they take on board.

Looking smart (not being a complete neckbeard) isn't essentially but given the choice between 2 people candidates all else equal one is a grumpy neck beard and one is a polite and smartly dressed, which would I prefer to take with me to meet clients?

Displaying business savvy is ESSENTIAL, I don't want robots who can't see outside of their own field of study, they have to understand the impact of their decisions on the business because managers can't keep an eye on staff 24/7

I'm not a consultant, I came in on the ground floor, was an assistant systems administrator for about a year, moved up to full time sys-ad, did DBA work, development, and eventually worked my way up to running the department, I take pride in my work and hate traditional management techniques, I think they just get in the way of getting shit done, I probably hate consultants as much as you do.

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>>28168010
>tfw 1 year left of comp sci degree
Its been a painful 2 and a half years but least i'm over the bump.

>>28168063
Finally someone fucking remembered.

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>>28168062

Yes I'm sure. I don't hire production-workers where that logic might be somewhat applicable.

My field consists mostly out of analytical positions.

>>28168064
>Where the fuck did you go to Uni/College?

Not saying, but I live in an area that booming with gas drilling and people won't even hire me on as a rig hand.

>And you think it's a better option to give up and look in another industry?

It has been almost a year since I got out. People interviewing me lose all interest once they find out how long I have been out of college for.

>>28167984

Right, exactly. I'm the same, 29 and worked my way up through the ranks starting on a low paid job doing my first week for free to prove I had my shit together.

>work for the high school as a student for 2 years
>use that to get a job
>work job for 2 years
>get caught in the third round of lay offs
>would have had like 3 years of Obama dollars but the extensions all end in 2012
Haha time for NEET.

>>28165487 (OP)

Just because you think you know what you're doing, doesn't mean you can actually do it in a proper environment

>>28168126

Cont.

I'm slowly working myself out of the shithole that is middle management though (closely related to senior at my corp).

I actually do something with my ambitions so after I finish my current program I will be able to go to higher strategic global policy making.

>>28168126
> I don't hire production-workers where that logic might be somewhat applicable.

Nor do I.

>My field consists mostly out of analytical positions.

So you're a pivot table monkey?

>>28168240
I don't, I'll fully alter my behavior to fit the firm I end in. I'm like a sponge, I'm not one of those "know it all" degree swingers. I have my degree, I'm willing to start in a starting position as it is advertised for starters. Having starter jobs require experience is retarded.

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>be /g/
>go into over saturated field
>wonder why the management gets to pick and choose people far better then you are that they then proceed to screw
MUH Free Market!
Don't forget it's not really free though. Enjoy your cronyism. For instance my Manager was literally the CIO and CFO's son. Hired straight out of college. And this isn't a tiny company. Over 1500 people.
>my face when he drones on about the importance of hard work to get where you want to be in motivational meetings
I'm glad it's over.

>>28168305

unfortunately, the way it works in the world for getting a job is:

people you know/connections>experience>qualifications

File: 1349796328820.jpg-(96 KB, 513x339, success.jpg)

>Spain
>over 50% youth unemployment
>be 19
>go to summer job interview for a web design company
>get very nervous during the interview, stutter a lot
>"What previous experience do you have?"
>"None at all. I've done some Linux stuff and basic programming in my free time"
>"Alright you can go, we'll call you"
>interview lasted 5 minutes, not a single technical question asked
>...
>get the job
>mfw

Of course it turned out to be a kinda shitty job. Sit in front of an FTP client and a bad web interface for 5 hours a day transferring files and migrating email accounts from a server to another. Worth it though.

>>28168299

I'm responsible for the output of the IT-commerce research dept. I give out the orders and set the direction. Which in turn is globally steered by the process-owner .

"My" employees are more than capable of delivering quality work, as I don't check it other than what has to be done.

>>28168317
>over saturated
not in my country, they've got 20 000 people short
The issue is they want over-qualified people for even the shittiest jobs.

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>>28168317

>importance of hard work

I always laugh when I hear how hard work gets you far.

>>28168336

Which makes it hard to get your first job unless you have friends or family hiring for positions you're suitable for.

However it's a large benefit once you've had your first few years experience, you'll meet so many people in the first 3-4 years that you'll probably never have to interview for another job again, you'll mostly likely be poached from place to place by other members of staff who move on and recommend you.

>>28168391
According to who?

In the US politicians keep saying we need more engineers and scientists to compete with China, but there are fewer jobs than there are graduates right now.

>>28168383

So you go to meetings all day and move boxes around on a Gantt chart. Gotcha. What in god's name led you to /g/?

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>>28168474

>>28166609
Great another delusional med student. You are aware that we have to 2-3 years of internship, then another 2 years of rotation? then do it again for specialisation. Which is much fucking longer than IT. Thanks to the influx of med grads, it's near impossible to obtain a internship. Then after that you only get paid 40k a year, which is fucking bullshit.

>get apprenticeship
>finish course with basic vendor quals
>get job interview and manage to get the job over other apprentices
> first day, find out im 1 of 3 technicians in the whole business, small fussilli pieces are falling from my pockets, try and sustain composure
>support calls start to come, full spaghetti mode engaged
>strands of italian cuisine gush from my every compartment, becomes apparent i know nothing about how to support a business in terms of exchange, ISA, terminal, and other assortment of servers
>oh god what are these things, ask collegues about everything at the expense of looking like a complete retard
>i somehow retain employment at this place for a month, spaghetti starting to fray, start to understand what the fuck im actually doing
>about 8 month in now, getting a metric fuck ton of experience but no certs to reflect knowlege as im too busy to take the exams
>not sure how to feel about this

so basically get an apprenticeship, there were people up the the age of 24 where i was, 95% of people i knew got a job at the end. though none as spaghetti intense as mine..

>>28168501
What the fuck kind of program are you talking about?

Are you in America or somewhere else?

Because Americans don't call residencies/fellowships internships..

>>28168474

Yes, because projects appear and get coordinated, planned, budgeted out of nowhere.

>>28168447
I like in yuorp.

>>28168539

Yes, we do call them that, because residents get paid, interns do not.

Try again when you're actually in a medical program (University of Memphis, here.)

>>28168517
>so basically get an apprenticeship

Where do these things exist? I have never seen anyone offer an apprenticeship in the US.

>>28168501
That guy is at least 30 years old judging by his specialty. I don't believe it.

And 160k is way too low for neurology.

>>28168539
Australia

>>28166566
There are also unpaid internships if that doesn't float your boat.

>>28168517

green text fail.
posting from an awkward chan app on my phone.

>>28168565

Wait what?

You're calling the shit you do at a medical school an internship? Why?

Rotations I understand that terminology, but I've never heard a med student refer to their last 2 years as an internship.

Actually I'm just confused now..

I have a lot of doctors in my family and it goes like this.

Undergrad --> Med school --> Residency program --> Big money time

The hard part is getting into a competitive residency program.

>>28168566
I did a Microsoft Advanced IT Apprenticeship for 12 months.

Got to go around Microsoft UK and everything, see all the games testing, software testing, hardware partners like AMD, Intel, HP, Dell etc all at work with new ideas and designs. Was schweet. Plus an Xbox 360 round every corner which you could play, and a Starbucks. It was like a small town.

Captcha: TechTV Storm

>>28168615

Internship: A student or a recent graduate undergoing supervised practical training.

The least you could do is try looking up the definition of a word before trying to go "That's not what it means!"

>>28168615

'Internship' in medical fields typically means a physician who has recently graduated from medical school and is learning medical practice in a hospital under supervision, prior to beginning a residency program.

>>28168566

in the UK they are quite easy to find, i dont know what it is like there in the US but they must offer something, or courses to get some basic quals. MTA's CompTIA's, MCTS... just some padding on your CV to tell employers you give a shit about the industry. then its basically the luck of the draw with interviews.

>>28168517

The great way about learning like this from the ground up is that by the time you've specialized in 5-6 years time, you'll have massive broad brush knowledge of the low level tech support stuff.

I've had people work for me that are excellent in their field but are completely useless with anything even slightly unfamiliar, especially in small businesses people need to be multi-talented.

Getting thrown in the deep and end staying afloat is good, maintaining composure and having a strong resolve are fantastic qualities, reminds me of me back when i started.

In 2-3 years of doing that it will be like water off a ducks back, your market worth will sky rocket.

Just FYI the transition to management isn't really any different to this experience.

>>28167647
Doesn't always work. Had a friend working at the Gap vouch for me and the black chick that showed up fifteen minutes late got the job. This was for a summer job in high school. Whatever, sexism.

Fast forward, looking for internships. Call backs are a thing of the past. Phone interview, things go well, they say they will call me. Nothing a week later. Call back, "Who was that you wanted to speak to?" "They never gave me their name. I called the number that called me. Could you just forward me to your HR department?" granted I was a little shaky because I was expecting to you know talk to the guy and she says "Sorry, I can only forward you to a person you know." Happened with NOV and a similar incident happened with Halliburton.

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>tfw 25 and no job
>posting on /g/ all day erry day
>compiling gentoo

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This thread has become too serious for /g/. Post spiderman.

>>28168695
>i dont know what it is like there in the US but they must offer something, or courses to get some basic quals. MTA's CompTIA's, MCTS... just some padding on your CV to tell employers you give a shit about the industry. then its basically the luck of the draw with interviews.

You either have to take a course at a college or read the book and take the exam all at your own expense

>>28168695
I got N+, A+, 2 City & guild diplomas and an MCTS from my Microsoft Apprenticeship.

feels good.

>>28168822
>time to use this shitty excuse to shitpost
>>>/v/

>>28168834
That sucks. Because I was under 18, the Government paid for all of my exam fees and training.

apprentice wage sucks though, minimum is £2.60 an hour. Luckily enough, my employers paid me above normal minimum wage.

>>28168786
Same, but what I do at work is what I do at home, browse 4chan all day.

>>28168700

cheers, thats some pretty inspiring words from you there anon

that is the plan though, currenly on a terrible wage and i could easily get paid more doing first line support at a much bigger company, though i would be learning nothing new as anything outside the tiny array of problems i hold the answer to will be passed to a 'higher power'.

we have just got a new contract this week with a company that has a complex cisco phone system in place that we will have to manage and support, another guy who i work with is very high up on the cisco ladder which means im no doubt going to take a crash course in cisco systems, i can appreciate how valuble that is going to be in future.

>>28165596
These days it's more like
>Work hard to even get an apprenticeship
>No extra training (atleast on their expense), expected to know everything you need before you get the job
When the apprenticeship ends and one of these things happens:
1:
>They decide not to hire you for some bullshit reason (like "works in a section with redundancies" or "insufficient work input" when you've been busting your ass) nor can they even be bothered to write you a letter of recommendation helping you to get another job
>Within a week or two your job is being taken care of another intern
2:
>They offer to hire you on a salary barely higher than what you made as an intern
>If you take the job you still don't get any company paid training and you're expected to know what you need to know from before despite what you're working with changing

Such is like in a post 80's world where profits are the #1 priority and new labor protection laws or increases of the minimum wage are blocked on principle because of them "being harmful to business and leading to mass bankruptcies and mass employment".

>>28165487 (OP)
If you ever wondered why so many in IT are incompetent then now you know.

>>28168881
You guys have it pretty nice over there
>get paid to apply to a few jobs a week and put up with chavs
>apprenticeships
>don't have to pay loans back until you make over a certain amount

>>28168909
get me hired nigger, hook a brother up

>>28166210
your in the wrong place to be thinking anyone is a girl.

>>28168926

>Such is like in a post 80's world where profits are the #1 priority and new labor protection laws or increases of the minimum wage are blocked on principle because of them "being harmful to business and leading to mass bankruptcies and mass employment".

That's not how labor protection laws work.

Unless you want stronger labor protection laws than Yurope.

And they have double the youth unemployment America has.

>>28168958
>>28168958
Where do you live?

>>28168926
In my case it was:

>Apply for apprenticeship
>get turned down by employer
>apply for same program with different employer
>get accepted
>work hard for 12 months
>get qualifications
>Boss quits same day my apprenticeship finishes
>whole workplace is in complete shittown because of only one guy left doing IT.

>mfw

>>28166210
It's a guy. And a furry. Even if it was a girl it would still be retarded. Now please gtfo to /b/ or reddit, I don't care where, just not here.

>>28168948
You forgot:

>Free healthcare

>>28168981
Belgium

>>28166523
Kind of reminds me of my first summer job:
>Get summer job at a construction site trough connections
>Make 7.50€/hour and think it's decent for a summer job with no previous work experience whatsoever
>Actually learn to enjoy the work
>People I work for who do this as a proper job ask me how I like it despite I'm doing simple stuff like removing concrete molds with a crowbar, setting up temporary guardrails and cleaning building materials
>Tell them I genuinely like it and think the money is good compared to the circumstances
>They laugh at me and tell me the work I do is boring and the pay I'm getting is shit
Meh... I enjoyed it and I got paid. It was a lot better than loafing around and fapping all day long at my parents' house like I would have done if I didn't get a job.

>>28166435

lol that cant be real

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>>28169128
You better believe it.

>>28169189
>>28166435
They walk among us...

File: 1349799823576.png-(1.29 MB, 1280x800, Screenshot.png)

Sell yourself. Make it clear computers are your passion. You eat sleep and breath computers, code and bits. You run 11 servers from home created your own kerberos secured environment. Run RAID1 on your home fileserver ,Run a Host and network based IDS + manual firewall settings on your internet facing computer, know many operating systems including Windows, Linux and BSD. Tell them this sit in the interview.

I know your feel OP. I got lucky and hired by a large corporation for a one year temp job basically as an apprentice sys admin. Fixing end user problems and doing some backend+ server work. Now I have the passion, I'm 3 year networking graduate and I have some real world experience. Maybe I'll get a cert or two. But yeah if you don't get lucky like I did then work in Tech support for 4 years or however long you need to to catch you break. Just don't settle for non tech jobs. At least become I.T. support or work at a fucking best buy with the casuals.

>>28168969
No, an intern position is not supposed to be a permanent position, it's supposed to be a position where you test and/or train a new employee whereafter you actually hire them.

Proper labor protection laws being implemented and enforced would stop companies from offloading work that should normally be done by full time employees to much cheaper interns. However as you can guess this is usually not the case and using interns for cheap labor is rampant in the western world.

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>>28169189
>>28166435
Step up

>>28166435
>triflin bitch with a turkey neck

I'm a freelancing programmer.
I don't have any money problems. Making $350 - $5k each project, and business is really good.

I tried giving employers a shot and work for a company. I really did, but when I set the bar and said "This is how difficult of work I can put out on my own, I can work 24 hours a day but I expect to be payed X", and when the stakes went down and we had to go to business, they turned me down thinking I wasn't capable enough.

Well now I'm making more money than they offered all on my own. Serves them right, those greedy bastards.

>>28169311
This man speaks the truth. I worked at Geek Squad during high school, then helpdesk at my college, then helpdesk at a local small business when i graduated--all waiting to catch my break in the networking field. It took 1.5 years after college, but now I am a tier 1 security analyst for a network security firm, starting at $50,000, with plenty of room to move up.

You just gotta bite the bullet, and install printers and reset passwords for a few years first. We all had to do it. You are no different.

>>28169311
>RAID1
>not RAID5
Do you even computers?

Just kidding, I won't give up as you said, I'll go into something less favourable likely (mainframes are a niche but high demand and I know COBOL and into z/OS so... I can sell myself easily for that job).. The downside is that it will mentally kill me slowly if I have to do it more than 2/3 years.

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>>28165529
>Because nobody can do nothing nowadays
Apparently not even basic grammar

>>28169613
What site do you freelance on?

File: 1349801189389.jpg-(337 KB, 719x1073, sadben.jpg)

>entry level basic as fuck job will pay minimum wage
>requires 20 PhDs and over 1000 lifetimes worth of experience
Yah, nah, job listings are fucking cunts these days

>>28169627
>You just gotta bite the bullet, and install printers and reset passwords for a few years first. We all had to do it. You are no different.

But you need 5+ years of industry experience doing that to get a tech support job these days. Employers don't count having your own repair business as industry experience.

>>28169648
If you get any job working with mainframes consider yourself lucky as fuck. I was talking about entry jobs like Phone tech support for Cogeco cable or geeksquad .... I think your expectation working on mainframes is incredibly high for your first job out of school lol.

>>28169688
>go study they said
>get that degree they said
Fucking Greece and Spain dragging the rest of the EU with them.

>>28169648
I was poor at the time so I only bought two 1.5 TB drives. I will buy another to create a RAID5 soon enough.

File: 1349801798070.jpg-(148 KB, 800x578, 1332043163795.jpg)

>tfw no experience
>tfw mediocre gpa
>tfw no professional references
>tfw still get interviews
>tfw ace multiple
>tfw offers disappear when they learn you're on a student visa
fuck

>>28165580
this

>>28169761
There's only a hand full of new mainframe techs in my country this year, me being one of them and there are plenty of companies that still run on z Architecture. I've done 1 year internship using one of those babies so I know my way around the TSO too. I just fucking hate reading 900+ pages IBM "red books".

>>28169774
Good to hear you're moving up in the world.

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>>28168822
I agree, here is some more spiderman.

>>28168096
I know your feels bro, I should be out of here in May

going to start at helpdesk but hopefully I'll be able to work my way up to the networking team

>>28166435
Thanks for that! I had a good laugh.

>>28168064

do you even lift?

>>28170489
Not really, I mostly compile.

>>28165487 (OP)
Go into that fucking office, throw your degrees and certifications on the desk, and tell them that they need you.

Fuck experience, you'll still win the day.

>>28168096
If I had to do college again...internships. FUCKING INTERNSHIPS UNTIL I WAS BLUE IN THE FACE.

No one would deny me work...ever.

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>>28165487 (OP)
It's to weed out the scrub
The more and more I apply to different positions
The more and more I being told it's a filtering process
They get hundreds of interviews every week
And the only way to trudge through them all is the progressively filter them
In fact, I personally have a position lined up in a company's IT that requires only a very basic knowledge of IT, ie. installing Windows 7 onto computers
And truth be told, I got this through my dad's connection
It's less about experience and more about connections

I hate this shit. I wish I was smart and creative enough to start my own business so I wouldn't need to care about licking the balls of superiors.

>>28170868
>And truth be told, I got this through my dad's connection
>It's less about experience and more about connections


Fuck this gay earth. Some social dumbfuck has a better chance of getting a good job than a social phobic einstein.

Like everything else in economy: there's more demand than supply - Meaning that companies can save themselves time and resources by hiring someone who knows what he's doing (and no matter how brilliant you are and how much knowledge you have, there are certain skills and capabilities you acquire only after being in the job market for a few years).

Sorry /g/entlemen, but the world isn't a fair place

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>>28171012
It's not about whoring yourself out--experts and self-help books warn against that, but it's about knowing the right people and presenting yourself as a competent person. You may be Einstein, but you're completely useless if oyu can't interact with co-workers and clients.

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>>28170968
>>28170968
>>28170968

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>>28171097
It's a mix of both really... I've heard stories of people that lie their way into a job and when they get it, they know fucking nothing and crash into a burning pile of ashes.

>>28171012
As someone who was interviewed and interviewed candidates himself many times, I can tell you that knowing "how to say" is no less important than "what to say".

Being able to express yourself clearly, explain things straight ahead, and knowing how to market your good traits and unique knowledge (the things that give you an edge over the other guys) is absolutely vital.

>>28171241
Having somebody tell a person "X is good I know him from Y" surpasses almost anything that you can say in the actual interview.

>>28171305
That's true, but sadly, not under your control (not as a graduate at least). It's better to try and focus on the things you do control, rather to bawww at the unfairness of the world

>>28171223
Never said anything about lying--it's namely sugar coating what you got to make yourself seem all the more interesting.

A previous position had me Google Earth people's houses and take measurements--nothing too technical. But on an application, I through out a technical term here and there and suddenly it's an interesting position and a conversation starter.

>>28165487 (OP)
So invent a fake company that you did 'contract' work with and use a google voice number pointed to a friend's phone and have them play the roll of your boss. That's how I got my career started many years ago.

Gotta break that catch 22.

>>28171603
If they would find out, wouldn't you get fired?

>>28171603
It's never a catch 22--my friend got a senior position right out of college.

Again, it's to weed out the scrubs, but you still need the skills and abilities, none-the-less.

>>28171603
This. I did this to get in to my first job when I was a kid and my first job as an adult. I've done it for a fe friends along the way because I sound professional. So long as you're not trying to get a job as a surgeon or air traffic controler you're OK.

>>28171894
They have to let you give proof that you have the needed skills, if they put your resume in the bin as soon as they see no X years experience they're idiots but it also means you never get the chance you deserve.

Somebody suggested going in there and hitting a desk, but I think that wouldn't win them over either.

>>28165596
Exactly the road I took.

>>28172167
The funny thing is that you can simply walk in with most small companies and start looking for work. As long as there's no 'off-limit' areas where they don't want people wandering around, you can just say you're an intern/temp for so-and-so and sweet talk your way to a paycheck through HR. If it wasn't for the fact that I did know someone higher up in the company, that's exactly what I did for one company.

>>28172262
>implying you can simply walk into a company
>2012
Any respectable company in my country has a keycard entrance with a phone next to it.

I remember job postings for people with 5 years of Java programming experience. In 1997.

>>28166349
Seriously. Small business consulting so so fucking easy, the owners don't understand shit and just open up their wallets. I bill $140 an hour for what I used to get paid $20/hour to do in a corporate IT department.

Learn some antique programming language. Not many COBOL devs out there.

File: 1349812574679.jpg-(9 KB, 240x240, 1340753530353.jpg)

IT is a very sensitive field. There's far too many people that don't know how to troubleshoot or have any knowledge at all working in it, many people just bullshit and run around fucking things up for their entire career.

I've worked in IT for 4 years and I make $13/hr. I made $12/hr for 2 years prior to that, and $9/hr to start for the first year. I am the main / backbone technician of my shop and also the only one that does on-site work. Every other employees fuckups is sat infront of me to make it right. All the stress is on me, and my paycheques lately have been sub $400, I cannot even pay my mom rent this month. The knowledge and responsibility required to do my job... is utterly ridiculous for the wage. Nobody will pay shit though, if there's a problem with a computer they'll just buy another one rather than pay someone to fix it, so we can either charge less or have the customer walk away.

I am going to quit my IT job and work in the mine as a diamond driller helper.

>>28167725
Do it man, trades are the only safe jobs out there anymore. 80% of what's left in IT will be outsourced in the next 10 years. Indians can click around google just as well as Americans.

>>28173209
But they can't into English and work ethics.

>>28168013

You're a faggot. You're all that's wrong with the system. Exploiting good people, paying fuck all for great work then laying off people like it was nothing.

I wish IT people had the smarts, discipline and business savvy to simply work from home, and leave total faggots like you dry, offering jobs like there was no tomorrow only to find nobody qualified.

>>28168501
>implying it's not true

Don't know about you faggot Americans, but where I live doctors have basically guaranteed life with all the best it has to offer. That's why I dumped a shitty career in software development for something that's actually fulfilling.

>>28173443
Getting started on your own isn't easy...

My parents had an own business (long before I was born) and went bancrupt. All of my life I've heard horrible stories, and warnings that I should never start on my own.

Now I'm at a point where I'm on the market and I see people get payed 1/15th of what the customer is paying for their consultation, that is just not right.
At the same time, even if I do start my own business, I have no customers. How do I make people aware, without spending lots of money (that I don't even have) on advertisements?

>>28173552

That's the fucking problem. You have to know faggots and suck their ego dick to get to anything good in this life.

So, how do we solve this fucking problem?

>>28173552
Hey would you mind sharing those stories?

>>28168501
That's only true in the US.
The rest of the world, with its socialized medicine, actually pays its doctors quite well.

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>>28173582
I really wish I knew, because it's eating at me.
You need money to make money.