I just hope fusion comes soon.
That has a lot less waste product.

like an energy crisis is looming

Nuclear power wasn't a mature technology yet. It needs some work before being re-deployed.

because jewish coal and diesel is so much better for the environment

I hope this will kick off LFTR reactors.

>>>/pol/

Japan isn't against recertification of the reactors in the sense that they never want them turned on again. Problem is, TEPCO said they were complying with the law on checks at Fukushima, they lied (a lot of senior management resigned over this).

Now TEPCO and the other power companies are saying "we're following the law", Japanese people are going "Get a third party to verify that", power companies are going "lolno", and Japanese people are saying "Fuck you".

Like in the US, power companies are regulated with how much they can increase prices every year. So now the power companies have to buy fossil fuels and actually import them ($$$) while only being able to nominally pass those costs onto consumers.

tl;dr sneaky japs are forcing the power companies to bow down and get their safety & compliance audited by a third party.

>yfw we'll never have a thorium reactor

Anyhow it just so happened that I listened to this NPR report this morning about thorium

https://www.npr.org/2012/05/04/152026805/is-thorium-a-magic-bullet-for-our-energy-problems?ft=1&
f=1007

pretty much it's never going to happen because there's no regulation on it and the government isn't giving any licenses to allow them.

They'll come crawling back.

Glad to be honest, i'm all for nuclear but running these old reactors for so long just isn't bright. Ideally they would have been replaced years ago but average joe had something to say about that.

How sad.

>>24665804
Fuck you, nuclear reactors are technology.

Captcha: persiy Abstract

Fuck, did the leaders of the world agree a few years back on the prompt collective suicide of the entire human civilization? What the hell is going on?

>>24665804
Nuclear power plants are technology, jew scum.

>>24665804
>nuclear reactors
>not technology

Seriously? Don't you have a desktop thread to post in or something?

Japan confirmed for full fucking retard.

>the us

We hardly have any Nuclear power facilities and we aren't quick to build new ones either.

Japan will be turning up their reactors after auditing them.
They aren't delusional enough to think they can operate long term without them.

>>24665766
Maybe now the wasteful japs will start conserving energy.

Have you ever been to tokyo? fucking lights everywhere.

>>24665766
"The reactor, at the Tomari plant on the northern island of Hokkaido, was shut down for legally mandated maintenance, said its operator, Hokkaido Electric. As Japan’s 50 functional commercial reactors have been shut down one by one for maintenance, none have been restarted because of safety concerns since last year’s Fukushima disaster."


So what they get their electricity from then? I think, despite the protests and fear, they will bac to nuclear energy. There's no other energy source for humanity in the near future.

>>24665766
>With the exception of france and the us it looks like the nuclear era is over. How does this make you feel /g/?


>implying Canada isn't one of the biggest nuclear production countries

Feels embarrassing man.

The japs skimped on safety measures and now they're blaming the tech instead of the human error/greed.

I hope China's thorium reactor project will be a stunning success.

>>24665877
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CANDU_reactor

muh CANDU reactor

>>24665888
It's not what you think it is. It's a standard breeder. Not the type the TEDster had a stiffy for.

Feels stupid, man. Per kWh coal and other sources of power are far more dangerous than nuclear. But a dozen coal miners dying in an explosion or a natural gas plant blowing up doesn't grab the headlines like a nuclear meltdown, so it completely distorts the public's perception of the relative safety of these technologies.

http://transitionvoice.com/2011/03/nukes-are-scary-but-dont-forget-coal/

Oh well, maybe thorium will revive nuclear.

>>24665837
>>24665839
>>24665845
It's kind of funny how angry you got over that.

Also, I don't know why you think I'm Jewish.

Everyone knows black people aren't allowed to be Jewish.

>>24665886
Japs aren't blaming the the tech, they ARE blaming the human error/greed. The power companies won't get third party auditors to look shit over and make sure the power companies are honest, so the japs refuse to reauthorize the reactors until they do.

>>24665858
So over 100 operating power reactors is hardly any? Almost 25% of our electricity is from nuclear. Watt's Bar has a new unit going on line, and there are others in the approval process.

mfw I see a thread on /g/ that isn't people arguing about consumer products or desktop/battlestations

>>24665877
Canada is just the quirky, polite, and mostly empty part of the united states.

Like everything, the retards in management have fucked us all over.

>>24665777
There are newer generations of reactors that can actually burn the waste in successive steps, until you end up with significantly less "hot" waste.

>It has conducted simulated stress tests to show whether reactors can withstand the sort of immense earthquake and tsunami that knocked out the Fukushima Daiichi plant. However, the public has not accepted the tests, which were conducted largely behind closed doors.
Holy shit, Japan, what is wrong with you. Get it together. Secret tests, are you fucking retarded? What the fuck are you thinking?

>Tadao Sakuma, 81, who had joined a hunger strike in front of the ministry to oppose restarting the plants
Of course, YOU won't be here in 50 years to suffer the greenhouse gas hell, will you, fucking old fart? How bloody convenient!

>>24665874
A lot of that energy is coming from coal, oil shale and the like. They're really just burning even more fossil fuels now than they were before. And yeah, they have little to no choice in the matter, in the end: eventually they'll go back to nuclear, they'll regress to an electricity-scarce level of living, or they'll die. Simple as that.

>>24665912
They're also release way less radiation than coal plants do oddly enough.

>>24665950
because regulation.

>>24665919
To be fair, these tsunamis show up every 1000 years or so. It was unlucky more than anything else.

>>24665947
That's why Japanese people are pissed. TEPCO faked their tests that said Fukushima was properly operated, so the Japanese public doesn't trust the new tests.

Doesn't Japan have a shit-tonne of potential Geothermal in the first place?

>>24665866
>Have you ever been to tokyo? fucking lights everywhere.
Have you ever been to Vegas? fucking lights everywhere.

>>24665983
Fucking retarded to do a state nuclear plant test and not do it openly. Might as well not fucking do it, christ.

Nuclear power is safe and controlled right now, it's retarded to shut it down right now when we can't yet fully cover it up with green energy.

>>24665766
>Germany Shutting down all their reactors in 10 years
Nazifag here. This is the 5th time I here this in the last 20 years.

>France

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER

>>24665982
>In 2007 TEPCO did set up a department to supervise all its nuclear facilities, and until June 2011 its chairman was Masao Yoshida, the chief of the Fukushima Daiichi power plant. An in-house study in 2008 pointed out that there was an immediate need to improve the protection of the power station from flooding by seawater. This study mentioned the possibility of tsunami-waves up to 10.2 meters. Officials of the department at the company's headquarters insisted however that such a risk was unrealistic and did not take the prediction seriously.
They knew it was a possibility and their design was shit.

>>24666037 here
Also the power generators (to cool the units if they SCRAMed them) had flooded before.
>On 30 October 1991 one of two backup generators of reactor nr. 1 did fail, after it was flooded in the basement of the reactor buildings. Seawater used for the cooling of the reactor was leaking into the turbine-building from a corroded pipe at a rate of 20 cubic meters per hour. This was told by former TEPCO employees to the Japan Broadcasting Corporation news-service in December 2011. An engineer told, that he informed his superiors about this accident, and that he mentioned the possibility that a tsunami could inflict damage to the generators in the turbine-buildings near the sea. After this TEPCO did not move the generators to higher grounds, but instead TEPCO installed doors to prevent water leaking into the generator rooms. The Japanese Nuclear Safety Commission commented that it would revise the safety guidelines for designing nuclear plants and would enforce the installation of additional power sources. On 29 December 2011 TEPCO admitted all these facts: its report mentioned, that the emergency power system room was flooded through a door and some holes for cables, but the power supply to the reactor was not cut off by the flooding, and the reactor was stopped for one day. One of the two power sources was completely submerged, but its drive mechanism had remained unaffected.

TEPCO was negligent.

>>24665810
>tl;dr sneaky japs are forcing the power companies to bow down and get their safety & compliance audited by a third party.
I really hope that is the case. The Japanese economy would be fucked over if they had to actually forgo nuclear power generation.

>>24666087
It's nice to think that it just might not be the case that corporations can get away with anything.

>>24666116
I believe American English is the only language/dialect that treats corporations as people.

I am so disappoint sometimes.

>>24665858
1/3 of the worlds nuclear power generation is done in america. We have 212 reactors

Japan has 50 and I believe France has 79

Nuke power only looks small because we're such a huge nation

>>24666087
>power companies: We did the tests, they're fine, promise! No need to see the results!
>japs: You no run prant. You show test, or no prant!
>power companies: Okay then, we'll just switch to thermal!
Sounds more like a case of "this is why we can't have nice things"

people are basically retarded when it gets to nuclear energy

deaths from Chernobyl : 15
deaths from Fukushima: 0
and statistically the nuclear industry is one of the safest industries according to the us department of labour statistics

compare that to coal, hydroelectric and wind you'll be surprised

>>24666221
But it's more so the case of not necessarily dying from the nuclear, but getting cancer and shit from the radiation. That's just my view at least, that may be completely wrong.

>>24666221
Only a huge swath of land was left uninhabitable, you know, no big deal.

>>24666037

Like the other guy said, those kind of tsunamis are like a once in a millennium event. Hindsight is 20/20, it's easy to look back now and say yeah, they should have made the walls a bit higher. It was a very tiny risk, but unfortunately for them the 0.001% or whatever chance that a tsunami would exceed the height of the wall actually happened.

With engineering there is always a tradeoff between safety and costs. Companies like Toyota could build a car that is incredibly safe, for example, but if those safety features made it cost $200k and your average person couldn't even afford it, then it does nobody any good. Likewise with nuclear energy or anything else there is always that tradeoff, you can make a nuclear plant that is 99.99% safe at a cost of $10 billion, or one that is 99.999% safe at a cost of $20 billion for example. You can never completely eliminate risk, and the goal is to try to find the "sweet spot" where you get the best performance and safety before you start to reach the point of diminishing returns where investing significantly more money starts to yield only minor benefits.

I was going to say this is the part where we all fall all over ourselves to pretend at being enlightened and nonchalant about poisoning the earth and ruining people's livelihoods over a wide geographical area for decades to come, but it appears I'm late to the thread.

Whenever a piece of technology sucks ass, blame the user as usual.

>>24666268
The problem is that nuclear disasters leave huge swaths of land uninhabitable for thousands of years. The failures have a very high societal and economic cost.

>>24666299
We JIDF now.

>>24666263
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingston_Fossil_Plant_coal_fly_ash_slurry_spill

>With the exception of france and the us

The UK is going to build a bunch of new nuclear plants, China is already building fucking hundreds of them.

>>24666263
Bullshit. It's only legally "uninhabitable", and only then because the laws are so strict. Unless you're actually camping just outside the front gate of Fukushima, or drinking seawater from the coast just beside it, you'd be fine. There are many other areas of higher natural radiation with people still inhabiting them, too.

Chernobyl? Similar case. The plant itself isn't a nice place to be, but the surrounds are a fucking nature preserve by now. Life in the area hasn't stopped, it's flourishing.

This entire thread needs to go back to reddit.

>>24666387
newfag detected

>>24666348
>Three homes left uninhabitable, but tear them down and build new ones, they're fine
>some other homes damaged

versus fukushima
>elevated cancer risks within 50km of plant
>all areas within 30KM are no fly zones
>20KM is a strict exclusion zone where no one can live
Yep, completely comparable.

>>24666379
>China is already building fucking hundreds of them.
From my experiences with Chinese engineering and poor manufacturing consistency, I am concerned.

What a primitive line of reasoning. They could have just added more reinforcements or something instead of shutting them down. Nuclear plants are massively expensive.

>>24665816
feels bad man

>>24666246
Except you get cancer from coal dust and other forms

It makes me feel like Ricky from Trailer park Boy's getting fucked over buy Layhe and Randy

>>24666425
The most populated country of an over-populated planet building ticking timebombs that will surely massacre huge swathes of its useless, ignorant, stupid, uncultured peasant population.

What's not to like?

inb4 edgy, hardcore, etc

>>24666425
GE is agreeing to give designs to china to make their own nuke plants based on licensed GE designs.

You know what'll happen. The Chinese will clone it, corners will be cut, and they'll be a huge nuclear disaster in China.

>>24665766
Feels bad, man. In 10 years time they'll be racing to reactivate these reactors as more "green" initiatives are passed and current power grids fail to deliver.

Meanwhile China of all places will probably have the Swedish levels of standards of living thanks to incredibly cheap energy.

>>24666425
So am I actually. China has got a reputation of exceptional engineering when it comes to making dams and bridges that work and don't break and kill thousands of people.
Then again, not like anyone in china will care since any accident will be swept under the rug.

>>24666451
Very true, but I feel like most of the threats from coal are more localized to just the people who work in that industry, compared to something like a nuclear meltdown that could give an entire city cancer in a week. I do realize similar things like that BP oil spill can happen with coal though.

China, S.Korea and India continue to research Nuke reactor design and are building them. That's a 1/2 of the human race right there

A few african countries have announced partnerships with S.Korea and Russia to have nuke plants built in there country because there's no large supply of oil/coal or NG.

Nuke area will still continue but developing countries are carrying the torch.

>>24665810
I'd really like to believe this. What evidence do you have to support it?

>>24666421
Very small picture of you, there are very many of these 'ponds' around the world, not to mention the shitfields (literally) procuded by industrial farming that cause things like hydrogen sulfide poisoning.

There are things that produce significantly worse conditions on a daily basis than Nuclear power generation has in its entire history.

Nuclear energy is the best resource currently.
The problem is they must be near major population hubs.
We need better electricity transmission technology.

Oh and protip, the Japanese reactors aren't taken offline permanently, they're just down for maintence until Japan realises that they're fucked without them.
I sure hope Japan likes being a slave to Russian and middle eastern oil prices.

>>24666488
read the fucking article retard

>>24666425
The reactors are pretty much all "outsourced", as in the lead designers and architects are from all over. I don't see those things exploding.

>>24666321

Decades or a century maybe, but it'd have to be a pretty bad disaster to make it uninhabitable for thousands of years. I think the Chernobyl exclusion zone is mostly safe today, for example, the only area that's still really hot is the reactor itself and the immediate area. And that's arguably the worst nuclear disaster in history. 3 Mile Island was pretty minor with no widespread contamination. Haven't really been keeping up with the Fukushima thing, there was some contamination but not nearly on the same level as Chernobyl from what I understand.

>>24666492
I think we should get Union Carbide to build some nuclear power plants
Indian ones especially

>>24666515
Not to mention that idiots put them in geologically unstable regions.
What the fuck, man?

Fukishima in a nutshell:

>Tsunami destroys thousands of homes, wipes entire towns off the map, kills thousands, causes massive pollution of land and water, destroys crops
>Fukishima hit by a ten foot wall of water, causing it to release an almost insignificant amount of short half-life radio isotopes, a couple of buildings explode due to hydrogen gas (which was BY DESIGN), no one killed.

Yeah, I can see how Fukishima was the real problem that Japan faced, here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_fluoride_thorium_reactor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_fluoride_thorium_reactor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_fluoride_thorium_reactor
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_fluoride_thorium_reactor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_fluoride_thorium_reactor

>>24666465
>The Chinese will clone it, corners will be cut, and they'll be a huge nuclear disaster in China.
Which is why I expressed concerns for their consistency (or lack thereof) in manufacturing. It doesn't matter if they get the designs from a reputable source if they're incapable of following those designs.

>>24666557
I think we should fund Bill Gates' TerraPower.

>>24666321
There has never been a disaster that has caused land to be uninhabitable for thousands of years. Movies exaggerate greatly. Links to deaths by Chernobyl are almost entirely tangential, except for the people in the immediate area that died in the explosion.

>>24666562
Japan confirmed for scared of demons, roads, cars, grown women, normal life styles, the roman alphabet, and water.

>YFW AMERICA

fuck

yeah

nuke power all day eeeerrrrrr day

http://www.economist.com/content/power-ranges

>>24666560
No, people placed major population centers near unstable ground.

>>24666573
>flouride
Confirmed for mind-controlling gubbermint shill.

>>24666560
Nuclear plants need to be put near water for cooling, otherwise it gets really expensive transporting all that water. Most geologically unstable places on earth are near water. I guess you can't really have one without the other?

>>24666596
0/10

>>24666421
>elevated cancer risk
Depends who you listen to. The most reliable, solid estimates put it at probably less than a hundred additional cancers from the entire disaster, maybe none. Asking Greenpeace on the other hand will get you answers ranging from a thousand to all life within fifty kilometres will be exterminated.
>no fly zones
>exclusion zones
Those two are probably similar in reasoning, they just don't want any idiots getting too close and doing something stupid, or they've got ridiculously low legal tolerances for human absorptions of radiation, and are bound by their own laws to set up such zones. Besides, there are already considerable restrictions on living and flying right next to nuclear power plants.

>>24666601
>geologic
I mean fault lines.

>>24666583
China is the worst about cost/corner cutting. They put out the "golden sample" then cut corners in every way until something disastrous happens. Lead paint on kids toys, Aqua Dots (kids toy) metabolizing to rohypnol, etc.

>>24666591
There are more here than I thought.

>>24666584
Hey, I live on minimum wage. I think the richest fucking man in the world can fund his own fucking garage toy.

>>24666487
They all look the same though and they are practically sub human so they really don't count.

They're basically like ants or any other horde of insects and shit.

As individuals they count as people, but as a horde of fucks they are pretty much worthless and can easily be replaced.

>>24665766
>With the exception of france and the us it looks like the nuclear era is over. How does this make you feel /g/?
No.

But it is a sudden outbreak of common sense in central Europe (Germany and Switzerland in particular) and Japan.

Somehow reactors did not need insurance, did not need guarantees that their disposal is covered financially by the operator company if phased out early, did not need to be really completely overhauled to current security standards.

That's a different sort of standards they were operated by... people had to pay for the disposal of friggin' household electronics in advance, and almost every chemical or other industrial plant had to be massively overhauled due to security and emissions relevant advances in technology being forced upon the plant's operators by politics... and of course they had to pay their own insurance.

Not covering the biggest cost factors enabled the nuclear lobby to claim how damn cheap their technology allegedly was, when it really was not.
If demanding the usual standards with regards to covering disposal of its own trash in entirety, updates to more recent technological standards and insurance can't be done and we have to rid ourselves of the whole industry instead, so be it.

>>24666653
The problem is that we need updated reactors. All the power stations in the US are just about as old as the ones in Fukushima.

>>24666681
Why not just cut out a billion a year from the pentagon's $700bn a year?

>>24666586
I heard in a documentary Ukraine(?) has a rate of 5% for cancer in children.

A short lived "victory" for green faggots

>their faces when the lights go out
>their faces when petrol prices sky rocket
>their face when CO2 emissions go through the roof

>>24666688
>they all look the same though and they are practically sub human so they really don't count
Hey, stop being a racist, subhuman fuckta-

>As individuals they count as people, but as a horde of fucks they are pretty much worthless and can easily be replaced.
Now that's actually an interesting line of thinking.

>live in an area in upstate ny nuke power plant and a hydro electric plant
>live in the middle of a natural gas shale region

energy is pretty much free for me. My utility charges me 3cents a KW for power and my gas bill comes up to 10/month in the summer $17/month in the winter.

Life is good man though gas (petrol for you brits) is still expense ($3.84/gallon).

>>24666601

Nope. I live in the most geologically stable area in the US. We have more water than most states and a nuclear power plant with cheap, clean electricity.

Feels good.

>>24666691
>All the power stations in the US are just about as old as the ones in Fukushima.
Not quite- fukushima was a pre-chernobyl reactor.
Age isn't so important with reactors as rather it's if it's pre-chernobyl or not.

>>24666726
Nuclear is about as green as it's going to get at the moment I don't know if this is exactly a victory for anyone.

>>24666744
Don't make the US look worse.

Everyone else does their gallon in liters/litres.

>>24666722
>trusting people with a motive
Don't trust nuclear proponents or opponents, they're both lying to you out of either greed or a pseudo-superstitious fear.

>>24666726
This.
Nuclear power is what we need right now to transition out of fossil fuels and into renewables without our society imploding.
It's a necessary evil.

part of the problem with Nuclear power is the unfounded fear of the public stemming the growth and implementation of newer and safer reactors.

Fukushima was meant to be decommissioned in 2006, but it was pushed back AGAIN AND AGAIN because public fear of building a new reactor to replace it.

If it HAD been replaced by a series of GenV reactors, this never would have happened.
Fukushima was a GEN1 reactor, with a FIRST GENERATION containment system.
Old and busted. It's something like 40 year old.

New Gen 3 reactors (of which there are only 6 in the world, almost all in AMERICA) have passive failsafe systems that would work in any situation.

>>24666747
Well I meant more so on the coasts, since a lot of people often live on coasts, which also happen to be where there's fault lines, causing more geologic activity. Of course, there are places, like the part of Ontario I live in which is very stable but has a fucktonne of nuclear plants since we have so many damn lakes.

>>24666691
due to NIMBY syndrome we don't get them though.

the feds want a 20 year renewal for indian point in NY. the two operational units were opened in 74 and 76 .they're almost 40 fucking years old at this point.

cuomo wants them shut down. I'd say good luck - they make 1/4 of NYCs electricity.

>>24666691
the (forgot the name) agency that regulates the nuclear power industry in America gave the go ahead for 3 plants to be built in 2012 and they're likely to allow another 3 to be built by the end of the year.

We're going to be shitting power plants soon.

>>24666744
>Thinks 3.84 for 1 gallon is bad
>I pay 9.7usd per gallon

Get over it, amerifag. You have it good.

>>24666753
"Pre-Chernobyl" or "Post-Chernobyl" is fuck all to do with anything, at all, ever. What the hell do you even think you're talking about?

>>24666769
Green has never been about the environment anyway and always about feeling good about yourself.

People are all about keeping things "green" in their immediate area, but they'll never go without their luxuries, so shove that rare earth mining to china while we put some worthless windmills on top of hills.

>>24666747
What region? I may have to move there soon.

>>24665837
>>24665839
>>24665845
No one in this thread is discussing the technology behind a nuclear reactor.

Discussing the politics of a nuclear reactor is still politics.

>>>/b/
>>>/pol/

inb4 retard speak

>>24666772
fuck liters, I only use that gay ass metric when buying mountain dew

>>24666586
>Links to deaths by Chernobyl are almost entirely tangential, except for the people in the immediate area that died in the explosion.
The suffering of the tens of thousands of people who were called upon to fix the disaster is well documented, as is the statistically very significant elevated levels of leukemia, cancers, deformations in children etc. in the nearby area.

Add the somewhat significantly elevated levels of the same in the regions affected farther away in the world, and yes, it is a really damn large disaster.

No, the area has not become "uninhabitable" entirely, but the consequences are pretty damn bad for a great many people.

>>24666788
There's nothing evil about nuclear. with proper redundancy nuclear is the safest producer of power by far.

>>24666753
>>24666822
Hey, at least they weren't using graphite to control the reaction.

>Proskuryakov, Viktor Vasilyevich
>present in the control room at the moment of explosion; received fatal dose of radiation during attempt to manually lower the control rods as he looked directly to the open reactor core; posthumously awarded the Order "For Courage" of third degree;[9] 100% radiation burns

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individual_involvement_in_the_Chernobyl_disaster

>that feel when you will never be this badass

>>24666747
>My situation is the exact same as everyone else's on the planet

autism in action

>>24666753
>Not quite- fukushima was a pre-chernobyl reactor.
>Age isn't so important with reactors as rather it's if it's pre-chernobyl or not.
Eww.. What? I hope You do not compare Soviet technology with a civilized one? RBMK in Chernobyl were reactors with graphite moderator - no one in civilized country will use this for energy production.

>>24666827
This.
Green is about buying even more shit to make you feel like you've done something besides throwing a little money at a problem that can't be solved by more consumption.

>>24666804 here
oh, also wanted to mention: downstate electric prices already beat 25 cents a kilowatt hour. without the plant and having to use a shitload more fossil fuel, you'd be beating 30 cents easy. not only that you wouldn't meet peak demand, you'd get rolling blackouts.

new york has shit ties with other states for energy production.

i'm pro plant renewal but a short term license. it's a loaded die, because the odds of an earthquake bad enough to cause major plant damage at indian point is 1:10,000 per year. the economic impact of not having the plant would be bad. I say give them a 5 year renewal, put a new plant on the fast track, and get it done.

>>24666421
I take in more radiation from working at a lab that works with uranium and other radioactive substances all day then they would take by living there for a year.......My chances of getting cancer are increased by maybe .5% from my job.

>>24666857
It was a bad disaster, but I'm simply saying that it was grossly exaggerated.

>>24666863
That man is a hero.

>>24666871
The point is that after chernobyl all other nations started shitting themselves and taking nuclear safety even more seriously, making the difference in reactor designs.
Soviet shit wasn't actually that bad. That's an American pigdog myth. It worked fine.
Doesn't mean they weren't retarded with it though.

>>24666840
As if we actually discuss the Mac architecture and not the politics, or the Linux kernel code and not RMS's foot chewing and nose picking.

>saging an active thread

Fuck off, cuntface.

>>24666857
> tens of thousands of people who were called upon to fix the disaster

The Chernobyl "liquidaters" numbered a couple of hundred, and they were all volunteers.

>statistically very significant elevated levels of leukemia, cancers, deformations in children etc. in the nearby area.

Got a paper to back that up? I mean, an actual peer reviewed, published paper that was authored by one or many oncologists, not a press release from Green Peace?

I'd just say the fission era is over. It's probably not a good idea to have a nuclear fission plant on a small island in the ring of fire.

>>24666822
It's not absolutely critical, but a hell of a lot was learned about nuclear safety because of Chernobyl. Many things were already known (having a big-ass pool of water directly under your core is a fucking retarded) but they either hadn't sunk in with the policy-makers yet or either they just hadn't been incorporated into modern designs.

As another anon mentioned over on /sci/, Chernobyl was basically the "what potato did you make this with" of nuclear reactors.

>>24666945
Geothermal power is probably against Shintoism or something.

>>24666895
yeah nyc prices are high, my grandma lives in Brooklyn and pays 28cents a kw/hr. i'm this fag >>24666744

Three mile island is going to be rebuilt no matter what nyc liberal want. They should build some tidal windmills too

>>24666917
>The point is that after chernobyl all other nations started shitting themselves and taking nuclear safety even more seriously

No. Western reactor design and safety features were decades ahead of Soviet designs.

> making the difference in reactor designs.

Not even slightly.

>Soviet shit wasn't actually that bad. That's an American pigdog myth. It worked fine.

No, the Soviet RBMK-1000 was a fucking terrible design for a power generating reactor, and they knew it. But hey, a light water cooled graphite moderated reactor that supports on-line refuelling *just so happens* to be a really good way to bread Plutonium for thermonuclear weapons, so who cares about safety?

That was the thinking in the USSR. It was never the thinking in the west. Chernobyl had fuck all influence on western reactor design.

>>24666857
Chernobyl was a special reactor.
like, short-bus special.

It didn't have a splashdown pool, no storage, no containment, and the only shielding they used was PLYWOOD.

It was the product of soviet corner-cutting and bare-bones construction.

They built a firepit in an oilfield.

>>24666917
It worked fine - until it fails.
Again - graphite moderator. It is not a myth.

>>24666852
>fuck liters, I only use that gay ass metric when buying mountain dew
That leaves two options.

Either you use the SI base unit "mol", or you're amongst the very last uncivilized remnants of the world who haven't yet standardized and decimalized to an unit compatible for use with the SI standard.

>>24666883
But is a problem that can be solved by technology and science

>>24666973
TMI is in harrisburg pennsylania
and unit 1 of TMI still operates today
unit 2 was the partial meltdown one, that was mothballed.

>>24667017
Actually I think we need more expensive hybrid cars.
Because if it's expensive it's good for the environment, right?
Nevermind all the resources gone into making it.

>>24666963
>a hell of a lot was learned about nuclear safety because of Chernobyl

What, you mean "don't build light water cooled graphite moderated reactors that exhibit a positive void-coefficient and then neglect to build a containment building"? No, I think we had that one down pat in the west.

>>24667017
Sure, but we don't have either that are capable of dealing with the problem in a commercially viable vector of delivery.
CFLs aren't enough, LED bulbs aren't enough, hybrids aren't enough.

All the green on the planet isn't enough.
The problem is volume.

>>24667041
>>24667056
science already solve the problem 60 years ago, nuclear reactors

technology implemented it 40 years ago

retarded people pushed it back

>>24667016
Welcome to America, where our favorite beer and violence are domestic.

>>24666199
> you no run prant

Aw lawd yes

>>24666831

The upper midwest.

>>24667048
Don't let alcoholic ukrainians operate a nuclear power plant?
>I wrote ukrainians twice.

>>24667056
>CFLs
I love mercury salts, capacitors and circuit boards in my lightbulbs. Nevermind that traditional lightbulbs are made of glass, metal and argon and not tonnes of shit mined from chinese metal quarries, then transported to chinese factories, then transported across the world, etc etc. CFLs are a fucking disgrace.
LEDs are okay though.

Hybrids are the same. Disgrace.

>>24667102
>mercury
oh no not incredibly small amounts that are 1/1000th what is required to hurt you

>Capacitors and circuit boards
this is supposed to be bad how?

also, LED's also use caps and pcbs

Electricity wise I'm nearly fully autonomous(Still have need for some fuel but getting past that slowly).

Solar Power has no future unless you'd make massive desert projects and even then it wouldnt be too great since the heat would destroy the panels daily.
Hydro power plants are meh.. clean but rather useless & you have PETAfags shitting themselves because LOLFISH, Thermal power needs to be stopped because the jews have too much power over the resources, besides its bad.

Nuclear however is the best option we have so far, its fairly clean, safe if you actually get workers that arnt idiots & place it in an accident safe area.

Anyone know if anythings happening w/ ECAT?

nuclear power destroyed all that land in Japan thats why it should be banned by international law.

>>24667069
Also battery technology is complete shit right now.
And power distribution systems are complete shit, rolling out charging stations is.

Though I did read a neat idea about using all the parked, grid-connected cars for load balancing.

>>24667102
Yep.

>>24667123
Mining operations aren't clean.

>>24667102
>capacitors and circuit boards

Do you realize what's in the fucking thing you're posting on?

4/10 CFL trolls were never good

>>24667141
what are you talking about, cars? the fuck cares, we're discussing grid power here.

>>24667126
Murphy's law states that there are no accident-free areas.
Fukushima was such a fucking fluke accident, but it happened.

>>24667156
I should've added Quotes on the accident free.
Hopefully you get the point.

>>24666927
>The Chernobyl "liquidaters" numbered a couple of hundred, and they were all volunteers.
No. Absolutely not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquidator_%28Chernobyl%29

>Got a paper to back that up?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster_effects#New_York_Academy_of_Sciences_publication

Tons of papers linked just there. You'll see some say nothing happened, others say "95% confidence intervals from 6,700 deaths to 38,000" with 16,000 excess cancer death being their estimate... no, not Greenpeace.

>>24667155
Electric cars, meng.

>>24667126
>Electricity wise I'm nearly fully autonomous
How?

>>24666919
Other people acting like retards doesn't give you justification for you to act like a retard too.

>Fuck off, cuntface.

inafter retard speak

>>24665790

We should harvest the free energy like wind.

>>24667126
>Solar Power has no future unless you'd make massive desert projects and even then it wouldnt be too great since the heat would destroy the panels daily.

Solar power will NEVER work. Right now
>nuke produces power at 2-3 cents kw/h
>natural gas at 5-7 kw/h
>coal at 9cents kw/h
>wind at 20cents a kw/h
>solar at 70cents kw/h

and that estimate is using the newest solar cell announced with grants and tax breaks included.

>>24667155
In times of high demand, the cars can act collectively to provide a little extra current to fill any void in production.

>Removing nuclear power plants
>Buying and investing in a failing technology [Electric Cars]

I'm guessing hydrogen will be the future for cars, or am I completely retarded?

>>24667195
1.2kW of Solar panels(Expanding erry month) on the roof.

Still need the use of a generator every once in a while & I'm heating using Wood.

>>24667222
It's a very good alternative to batteries, but it isn't there yet.

>>24667215
excuse me it would be a dollar a kw/h not 70cents sorry

>>24667189
>Author Alexy V. Yablokov was also one of the general editors on the Greenpeace commissioned report also criticizing the Chernobyl Forum finds published one year prior to the Russian language version of this report.
>This report is not peer reviewed nor is it endorsed by the New York Academy of Sciences.
>The New York Academy of Sciences also published a critical review by M. I. Balonov from the Institute of Radiation Hygiene (St. Petersburg, Russia).

>>24667212
>wind
Do you not realise that wind should not be fucked with? It controls the fucking weather. That and wind ultimately is just air currents made from the changing of density of air and ergo volume from sunny sides of the earth compared to shady sides. And then brushed around with chaos until it's a mess.

Stick with solar. And perhaps geothermal.

>>24667215
Nuclear power does not include any insurance or disposal including security against terrorists until the material is harmless. And more. Somehow, paying the costs with taxes makes the technology "cheap".

How about we also pay the solar panels and their installation with taxes and don't list that as cost? 0 cents per kWh!

>>24667234
Ah nice. How much did your system cost? Will it pay itself off in the near future? Any pics?

>>24667215
>nuke produces power at 2-3 cents kw/h
Subsidized as fuck
>natural gas at 5-7 kw/h
Subsidized as fuck
>coal at 9cents kw/h
Subsidized as fuck

Remove the subsidies and the government guarantees and then you'll see the free market forces at work

>>24667222
They're trying to push electric these days. I guess hydrogen could end up being the solution to that solution some day.

>>24667234
where do you live i'm calling bullshit. Why do you waste so much fucking cash? That's like 16k of materials and installations

YOU AREN'T SAVING MONEY

>>24667215
Assuming you mean photovoltaic when you say solar, yes, it's a fucking doomed technology with no real place in the future. Solar-thermal, on the other hand, is definitely a viable technology which could contribute quite a lot to the future grid, even if it has the inevitable caveats.

>>24667258
>terrorists
As if they actually give a shit about nuclear waste. Terrorists want body counts, not some fairy dust. I doubt they even believe in radiation.

Meanwhile, Finland is building another nuclear plant

>>24667271
FREE MARKET FORCES, AWAY!

>>24667212
And eats only beans?

>>24667215
The reason Solar power costs so much is that most of it is not provided in a large scale manner.

Up until recently there were very good subventions up to 70% for people wanting to Sell Solar power from their home roof. Here those subventions were closed down last year.

Solar power works great if it was used personally and had no large scale interaction with the network, every house on their own, but it cant work as a large scale provider.

>>24667300
Well, the problem right now is the fucking fossil fuel and nuclear industry is more subsidized than wind and solar.
At least even the playing field.

>>24667271
>solar at 70cents kw/h

SUBSIDIZED AS FUCK

I don't get all this bullshit about government money for energy on 4chan right now. ALL forms of energy are subsidized in some part.

We should put huge arrays of photovoltaic cells in space and have them beam their energy back to earth in microwave form
>in during death-rays.

>>24667271
it's not subsidized you stupid fuck and even ifit was you would have to subsidize solar to hell and back.

Natural gas is so cheap right now because of shale gas. Theres a HUGE GLUT in the market right now.

NG companies are spending $5 a cubic ton to recover natural gas when the average cost is $2 a cubic ton (or whatever the measurement is).

Fuck off hippy

>>24667343
Republican detected

The UK is building a few new reactors.

It certainly isn't over.

From a technology perspective, Nuclear Power is gay as fuck and really the same shit as everything else. It just fucking uses radioactive material to boil water to make steam and turn some fucking turbines. Fuck you nuclear power, you're a poser who tries to pretend its all advanced but its all a show.

>>24667338
Well, a little bit of death-rays never killed anyone.

>>24667253
Thanks for getting there before me. This is precisely we I said "Greenpeace press release". I was fully aware of the Academy of Sciences report, which is nothing more than a Greenpeace stunt.

>>24667392
It really takes all the fun out of it when you know how it works doesn't it?

>>24667370
Why did they shut down the one at Trawsfynyndd? It'd be completely terrorist proof. "Okay boys, let's go for the one at Trawsf- Trawsftnen- Trasfinidinid- oh fuck it, let's just piss around."
Actually that might be why it was shut down. "We need to shut this one down because no delivery trucks are getting there"

Fucking wales

>>24667319
bullshit, home solar costs 10s of thousands and still doesn't produce enough power to take you off grid

>>24667281
I am not even connected to the network hence I dont have to pay ANYTHING besides the support of the panels.

Due to connections I also get the panels very, very cheap. I get 250W panels that cost around 450€ for 200, sometimes even less. The batteries are really the primary cost, still it comes nowhere close to 16K.

I've been building the system for a while, and prices were higher before but in total I've used about 7K, would be cheaper if I did all of it at the current prices.

>>24667392
How else do you want us to generate power for you? It's pretty much either turbines, or photovoltaic cells.

>>24667370
They're shutting down Sella-fuu~?

>>24667430
even at 7k it will take you 50+ years to begin saving money

>>24667328
>thinks solar is at the point now where it can produce power cheaper than coal

idiot detected.

>>24667392
We need more nuclear thermopiles.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_thermoelectric_generator

>>24667319
>it cant work as a large scale provider.
It can. Fairly easily so, technology-wise, we can build and deploy the needed circuitry without breaking much of a sweat.

And we can "easily" afford to have the tech... kind of like with roads - actually they do cost quite a lot, but we earn enough to pay them without really feeling THAT burdened by it.

If there's inefficiency in the system vs. some other solution (one downside to the upsides it has), we can afford that too - again kind of like with the road network, which is neither efficiently designed nor efficiently used...

>>24667370
Yea, it's Germany and Switzerland who're trying to get out of that technology for now, can't really think of anyone else.

Japan also just has suspended nuclear reactor operations, but I do not think that will last very long. They'll just declare their reactors safe and upgraded in a bit and continue, I think.

Nuclear's pretty cool, but the waste isn't, and we don't really have a reliable way to dispose it. Trying to store it for millions of years somewhere also is extremely likely to end in a massive fuckup.

>>24667445
Saving money was really not an issue since the simple cost of getting plugged onto the network would be more than my system (I honestly dont know how they came up w/ that retarded price but yeah).

It wasnt to be economical as fuck, I simply didnt have an option, Keep in mind, I'm not earning anything from that, its personal use only.

>>24667370
It is over.
http://www.lse.co.uk/FinanceNews.asp?ArticleCode=uhrqvvrjq4w8btp&ArticleHeadline=RWE_EON_confirm
_UK_nuclear_pullout

Blackouts here we come!
Yay!!

>>24667328
Dude, NYS and the federal government pay over half the cost of solar implementations.

You're retarded.

>>24667490
did you like build a house on some undeveloped land or something?

>>24667487
>we don't really have a reliable way to dispose [of nuclear waste]

1) Reprocessing
2) Breeder reactors

>>24667484
Technically the work could also drop the use of fossil fuel.

Solar Power is starting to get better (A lot of schools here rent out the gym roof to companies & make money while producing Hydro-power plant tier energy.)

Its the lack of people willing to invest in a really large scale project thats the main issue.

>>24667487
Traveling wave reactors and Breeder reactors can be designed to burn the waste.

>>24667487
I would be fairly content with the "throw it down a deep dark hole in a seismically stable area" or "leave it in a subduction zone" methods of dealing with waste.

Nuclear.
http://www.centrica.co.uk/index.asp?pageid=1045&topic=nuclearpower

Their share price is tanking.
http://www.google.com/finance?q=centrica

Oh noes no money to build them.

>>24667432
Geothermal also is an option. For probably nuclear reasons, the Earth emits fairly significant quantities of heat. We can use that.

And then we can also utilize plant matter more efficiently, also takes away a few percents of our total energy requirements.

And, we could fix our houses and cars and appliances. Saves like 70% of power consumed.

>>24667567
The world*

>>24667512
Inherited the house.
The area is really nice and clean(Full on forest here) and the people are nice.

Not looking to move anytime soon, its not like I could get any money from selling this place anyway.

>>24667628
Geothermal also uses turbines.

>>24667494
Dude, the US government have aircraft carriers to protect the oil flowing out of the Persian gulf. Solar subsidies are fucking small time.

>>24667569
And Iran and the rest of the world is going to have that?

The fine result of everyone having a breeder is everyone having weapons capable materials, no?

I think the existing nuclear power as well as other factions (EU etc) really don't want that to happen.

>>24667654
Fair point. I was reading "wind" turbines, but apparently that was wrong.

Yea its either spinning magnets or photovoltaic effects, so far.

>>24667705
It's for the US, Europe and friends, not the brown people.

Banning nuclear power is just another way of brainwashing and controlling the population. People negative to nuclear power is just proof of that the majority is fucking retarded and shouldn't be allowed to vote.

>>24667667
That's nothing, we spend 100 of millions to protect $100 of billions worth of oil. Even if you call that a subsidy (i'm not because the market takes security in consideration when determining prices) that at most would be a 10% subsidy

Right now with federal and state grants solar is being subsidized by 30-60%. I live in NJ and you can get a 3k grant and 2k tax break for putting up solar panels on your house. IT'S CLOUDY AS SHIT HERE why would I want a solar panel?

I like geothermal
I think wind is meh
I think solar thermal could be useful in the desert
fuck solar voltaic

>>24667705
No, you don't just throw in arbitrary radioactive material and magically a bomb comes out.

>>24667740
It's kind of disappointing that every means we have of generating electricity boils down to those two technologies, and one of them is hundreds of years old already. Hell, even top-of-the-line, bleeding edge, futuristic fusion reactors are basically a really fancy way of boiling water.

Ah well, if it works this well, I guess why change it?

>>24667804
>shouldnt be allowed to vote

meanwhile, in the real world, where people arent allowed to vote the jewish politicians is in charge and turns to even more shit

>>24667835
>::
>>24667468

>>24667835
>Epic Fusion device reverse engineered from Aliens
>Yeah.. and we use the steam to rotate this wheel

This is why we cant have nice things.

>>24667705
Breeder reactors don't just spit out fully viable bomb cores. You still have to reprocess the output, cast and machine it, and even then you still need the explosives and the rest of the package to make a viable bomb.

The reprocessing is the hard part, by the way.

>>24667705
>this is what the typical voter thinks
Weapons-grade fissile material is a million miles from reactor-grade.

This is why I believe NK doesn't have any nuclear weapons. They just have enough insanity to put 300 tonnes of TNT in a hole and say it's a nuke.

>>24665792
hahaherfherf. yeah this.
it's fucking retarded, an accident happens, it's the end of a technology.
why do we keep building skyscrapers and use planes after the 9/11 ? it IS DANGEROUS WHEN THEY COLLIDE AND EXPLODES !

no energy is safe, this is a fact but by far the safest power source for the watt remains the nuclear. it's the #2 most performant and clean just after hydroelectric dams.

BUT as always the NWO judged that it's better to invade countries for their oil resources and buy bombers and tanks instead of buying scientists to develop nuclear fusion or thorium plants.

>>24667835
heat to electricty is inefficient still. Water is the perfect middle man/medium to take the heat and electrify it.

If you don't like it get out of your basement and research something new. Tired of seeing people bitch from the sidelines

>>24667863
>This is why I believe NK doesn't have any nuclear weapons.

This. It's highly unlikely that NK has the skill and technology to process HEU or produce any viable quantities of Pu235. They had what, one 10mW thermal research reactor? Pull the other one.

>we have reliable ways to dispose of nuclear waste
>nobody is doing it, instead they store it in leaky salt mines

>>24667949
because contracts are good money to people who fund gubbernment business.

>>24667949
>nobody is doing it

The UK, France, Japan and I believe Russia all reprocess. In fact it's only the USA which is too pussy to do it (you can't thank President "I'm a fucking Pansy" Carter for that one)

>>24667963
*people who lobby gubbernment

>>24667705
Iran WANTS nukes. with nukes, no one will invade you. it's like sealing your country from war.

proof : here in france, and in UK, since we have nukes the germans never came back.

any country leader who wants to demilitarize their country is a traitor to their nation.

>>24667922
My complaint wasn't in earnest, and I'm entirely aware of how effective steam is in the process of generating electricity.

>>24667835
And I think the inefficiency with which the power is transported and utilized is worse.

>>24667863
>Weapons-grade fissile material is a million miles from reactor-grade.
Nope. Not true at all, neither inherent in the process to get to nuclear weapons, nor the materials used.

I don't care about NK... but you better believe anyone in Europe from Norway's size onwards already could develop it's own nukes within 5-8 years, completely without getting their hands on the US/Chinese/UK/French/Russian/Indian/Pakistani designs.

All they currently lack is the will and a credible concealment for such a program - such as having to operate a bunch of breeders.

The rest of the world either also already is capable, or -even if backwards now- will be within 30-50 years, on average.

>>24667817
Have you any idea how much it costs to operate aircraft carriers, airplanes, paying soldiers and mercenaries, running fucking wars just because the spice must flow from the middle east? It's billions and trillions, not millions.

>>24668003
Iran doesn't give a shit about nuclear weapons. They know they'd never get a chance to use them. Israel would not hesitate to nuke the fuck out of iran.
Which makes it a little risky to develop them. The real reason Iran wants nuclear technology is because they don't want to burn all their fucking oil. They want a fine chemical and pharmaceutical industry. They want petrochemicals.

>>24667991
>The UK

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BNFL

If you mean URS/AREVA (USA/France)
The other company is just an engineering company

>>24668034
>Nope. Not true at all, neither inherent in the process to get to nuclear weapons, nor the materials used.
Uh, no. This is just not true.

>>24665766
Power companies, get your shit together! I don't care with what you produce my electricity, just make it as cheap as possible!
Nuclear energy? sure go ahead!
Burning oil? Whenever you want!

>>24668003
>proof : here in france, and in UK, since we have nukes the germans never came back.
You're talking this while al-Francya and al-Anglya are being invaded by Muslims, even with the nukes.
You should pray your Allah.

>>24668003
>proof : here in france, and in UK, since we have nukes the germans never came back.
I think it partly has to do with the Germans having become a bit more peaceful after the average man's past problems have been resolved (no more treaty of versailles, no more emperor's ambitions and completely power hungry europe in general).

They could have more nukes than the UK or France if they wanted, after all.

>>24668045
Don't discount MAD. Israel would be a lot less likely to nuke the fuck out of Iran if there was even a chance they'd cop one themselves for their trouble, right in the middle of Jerusalem.

>>24668012
that's why a tokamak runing pure fusion would be very efficient. several kiloamperes of current are produced by an EM field issued from the reaction. the rest is steam from the coolant systems also converted in energy.

it works since the early 80's. never really been put in production unlike the first nuclear powerplants, which took at rought dozens of years from concept to industrial use.

>>24668117
What I meant is that iran would do a pre-emptive strike before iran even got nuclear weapons. If Iran did a nuclear weapon test, it'd be covered in nuclear fire within the hour.

We need big Bussard collectors in space capturing Helium3 from the solar wind. So we can have more efficient fusion reactions.

>>24668172
Sure, international politics are simple like that.

>>24668085
oh yeah fuck everything about this.

>>24668092
yeah, on the other hand they have no choice, they're condemned to use the same money as the other euro states. unlike the third reich the power is now all concentrated in brussels. result is :
>>24668085
and all this shit.

>>24668058
Just because BNFL don't exist doesn't mean the UK isn't still reprocessing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_Oxide_Reprocessing_Plant

However, THORP *is* currently in shutdown, but will almost certainly be brought back on line.

>>24668188
Yeah, like Israel is sane. They already have a air-strike strategy planned, planes build, route and strategy, refueling etc all set out and ready to go.

>>24668181
Fuck that, we need to send Sam Rockwell to mine for He3 on the moon.

>>24668214
And if anything goes wrong, cry holocaust and get the US to bail you out.

>>24668214
Israel is paranoid, because all their neighbors tried to kill them. And will try again.

>>24668220
And we need Kevin Spacey to provide the voice for his robotic assistant.

>>24668241
> because all their neighbors tried to kill them
Pretty sure that's because they invaded and stole the land and houses of their neighbours.

It's not over, they're just being shut down for renovation and checkups, they'll be back up again in a month or two. Wapan can't survive without feeding it's electricity needs via nuclear energy.

>>24665766
Sad. Why must stupid people ruin everything good in the world.

>>24668246
His friendly, courteous, and helpful robotic assistant.
I really liked that about GERTY.

>>24668253
Better watch what you say lest the JIDF come for you.

>>24668253
They didn't steal any land from the nations that attacked them. After the war was over, they had won some land from them, as happens in war.
Besides, you're probably living in a territory that was taken from natives anyway.

>>24668069
>Uh, no. This is just not true.
Yes, it is. The US Manhattan project took only 4 years with technology from freaking 70 years ago. Most of the cost was materials, reactors, and purification sites.

Having the first two completely covered and the thrid partially covered and a lot of experience with as part of your regular industry, plus 70 years of a technological advantage in chemistry, machines, and also computers DO make this quite easy for a nation.

And that's why the powers that be do NOT want to see either the materials, breeders, or purification sites everywhere... but they'd have to be, if the rest of the world -the majority of it, population wise- isn't to be precluded from the technology.

>>24668312
1/10

>>24665766
Fucking the only reliable energy source
Now everything will be carbon ad petroleoum
Or biofuels

So yeah, no more electricity for us

>>24668312
This made me realize I live on land that white Europeans took from the Native Americans way back when. I'm sure glad they don't have nuclear weapons.

>>24665795
no, they are nuclear

so no

>>24668214
y'know, myself and a lot of jewish people i know think that israel is really and always been the belligerent state of this region, and personally i don't believe that the protocols of zion being a fake story at all, since everything about zionism (not judaism. stop mixing shit up) is happening, one must be blind to ignore this.

zionists are the integist form of jews. just like islamists they get on a system, abuse of its weaknesses to take the control of it, placing some of their people in strategic key roles, how you get the bildeberg, the BCE, Halliburton and living filth like Larry Silverstein or Kissinger.

>>24668354
That's kinda why I don't believe that Americans that harp on about Israel's occupation is really about the plight of the Palestinians, unless they've donated their house to the native American tribe that it belonged to previously.
Then I might take them seriously.

>>24668339
As somebody already said, it's maintenance and inspection shut-off, not scrapping.

For Japan, even without nuclear power, there is still some renewable sources they can use, like eolic energy and sea (you know, when sea gets high and low because the Moon pull? Dunno it in English).

The best would be use all the three.

>>24668401
No, Japan is fucked without nuclear power. 100% fucked.

>>24668339
I saw an MIT study claiming the world is going to start running out of oil in ~30-50 years (from now). It was a study started in the '70s and they say that predictions made regarding oil drilling, demand, and price for the 2000s are consistent with the actual data.

We may have a huge oil crisis on our hands in a few decades if we can't either find alternative energy or develop a way to synthesize oil much faster then ever before.

>>24668417
I included nuclear power.

>Japan stops nuclear
>start using oil
>buys oil from usa
Does this sound familiar, guys?

good for them

nuclear energy is dangerous and pollutes our water
and we already know how much bad japan does to nature

>>24668458
no it doesn't really
but maybe that's just because I have a shitty memory

>>24668429
First of all, we're finding new oil wells everywhere.
Brazil, Argentina, Denmark, have oil sources.
Second, if oil really disappears, there are about 200 years worth of coal that can be turned into gas and diesel via coal liquefaction.

>>24668460
ecksdee

>>24668460
0/10

>>24668429
we won't run out of oil it will just become more expensive.

As of right now we only extact a 1/3 of oil from a well. The rest is too expensive to get to at today's prices. In the past it use to be 20% but it increase due to a) horizontal drilling made it possible to get oil cheaply and b) oil above 65/barrel made it economically feasible to extract it.

Peak oil isn't a constant. It changes with technological improvement and market price. Not to mention there's large parts of the earth unexplored for oil

Still we need to get off of it so we can decrease co2 production.

>>24668471
Don't forget Antarctica. There's a tonne of petroleum down there.

>>24668479
>>24668474
>DURR I DON'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS

enjoy drinking radioactive water, fucking retards

>>24668429
China has been stockpiling
*Copper
*Rare Earth Minerals

Gathering electric car info:
http://www.france24.com/en/20110107-renault-electric-car-details-leaked-china-figaro-besson-industri
al-espionage
Oh look their economy is not a pile of free market jobless crap.

Building Building Nuclear
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2010/09/20/china-nuclear-safety-idUKTOE68J04920100920

Oh look they are building huge citys that are empty *at the moment*.

Somone saw all this comming.

Clearly the answer is that we need to get CERN cracking on making a Matter/Anti-Matter Power Core.

>>24668471
third world increases their consumption of oil though, back in time only very few had cars, currently new vehicles soar and they will want to keep using them.

>>24668471
Oil won't simply "disappear", it will have a sharp rise in price and consumption will be lower. At this stage, remaining oil will be used for "nobler" things like making plastics instead of burning.

And even with more oil wells, it's pretty much doomed to be expensive.

For Japan, there's not much alternative except nuclear power. Or even better, energy saving - using less energy to make the same shit.

The Chinese are building thorium reactors.

We're fucked.

>>24668471
Even so, were still using it at an unsustainable rate. Best case scenarios is that the oil lasts a few more centuries, before it dries up. Then what?

I'm not saying to not use oil, but we need to find a way to produce it quickly synthetically at a reasonable price so that we don't have to rely on natural reserves all the time because we will deplete them. In addition we need alternative energy to reduce our oil usage as well.

>>24668502
A well-made nuclear power plant never pollutes the surrounding cooling water. The single biggest environmental problem is that, you know, cooling water is heated, and hot water is bad for life.

>>24668544
Who cares? We will be dead then.

>>24668544
>Even so, were still using it at an unsustainable rate. Best case scenarios is that the oil lasts a few more centuries, before it dries up. Then what?
that's not our problem that's out grand kids problem.

We'll have oil for our entire life time fuck future generations.

>>24668571
>>24668570
>/tg/isvisitedbybigoil.jpg

>>24668571
Yup. This won't happen during our or even our children's lifetime. And by then we will hopefully be out in space colonizing mars and shit.

>>24668037
It didn't go well, but the potential was far bigger than what constitutes pieces of rocks.

Yes, they're relatively cheap.
No, they won't help us.

for a board that screams freedom every 5 seconds

you fags sure do love non reusable power
enjoy having energy corporations buttraping you

>>24668612
>Colonizing Mars
>With NASA being all but shut down by Glorious Leader Obama

>>24668512
Right now it costs about 6 trillion dollars to produce a gram of antihydrogen on earth.

Curiously, antiprotons accumulate in the van-Allen belts around planets.

>>24668502
The water that's is boiled to become steam to drive the turbine in a PWR is never even in contact with nuclear material.

The heavy water used for coolant is, but that is not recycled to lakes and streams and is treated differently since it is contaminated.

I suggest you learn a little bit about nuclear power.

>>24668493
When oil prices become so prohibitively high ($5000/barrel or something like that) it will be effectively the same as running out. No one will be able to afford it, no one will be drilling it, there will be nothing.

>>24668603
>>24668603
No, we just don't give a shit, since we will be dead by then, so it makes mo sense to worry about it.

>>24668636
Russia, China, India, etc.

Russia has always been ahead of the world in space exploration. China will probably take the lead next.

>>24668501
There is currently a treaty preventing the exploitation of oil and minerals in Antarctica.

>>24668647
>Right now it costs about 6 trillion dollars to produce a gram of antihydrogen on earth.
And more importantly than any monetary cost, even, this requires... our classic form(s) of fossil and electrical power. Yea. We gain nothing in the process.

>>24668689
We will go over to coal liquefaction before this even happens. Another 200 years of gas and diesel.

>>24668700
>Russia has always been ahead of the world in space exploration

If Russia has been launching shuttles into space over the past thirty years, then the US Media has been doing a damn good job of making the world oblivious to it.

Though yeah, they'll probably soar ahead now, simply because Obammy decided that Outer Space is dumb and boring.

>>24668711
It makes sense for transporting energy in, say, a space ship to Mars, since the weight will be considerably less than using other kinds of fuel.

>>24668717
>Another 200 years of gas and diesel.
Or maybe 15 years if the rest of the world started consuming like the USA today... yea.

>>24668743
Don't be stupid, Obama is cutting government spending and letting the private sector do the boring crap like sending goods to the ISS. SpaceX, nigga!

>>24668789
You're an idiot if you think any politician, President or not, seriously wants to cut government spending.

>>24668774
I don't think you know how much coal there is in the world. And the US is a fucking coal superpower.

>>24668743
nasa sucked and was cost too much compared to what we were getting. Private firms will do a better job.

Space X
Virgin space
and that james cameron company are all dumping shit loads in to developing stuff that can go into space.

If that company sends a rocket to the ISS then they would have done it at 10x less than nasa does.

>>24668799
Obama cut government spending and now you complain that he did so?

>>24668799
Congress controls the purse strings, not the president.
Blame the teabaggers, not Obama

>>24668820
>Democrats
>Cutting their spending

They only cut shit that they don't like. They could cut the budgets of every Government office and program by 1%, and they'd save a shit-ton more money than they would by raising taxes and cutting a few cherry-picked programs.

But they wont do that because their constituents would be mad and wont re-elect them.

>>24668847
How does that differ form repubs?

>>24668847
Democrats aren't the ones who claim to be against government and then, when elected, decide to expand the government like a motherfucker.

>>24668871
Repubs actually know how to fix an economy.

>LBJ goes into office, raises taxes on the wealthy to 70% as part of his "war on poverty", saying it'll trickle down to the middle and lower classes
>Nothing fucking happens, poor still stay poor, rich still stay rich, money from taxes goes to fund stupid shit
>Reagan takes office, lowers the taxes on the wealthy to 28%
>Biggest economic boom country has ever seen

In b4 explanation saying that the prior presidents policies don't show any effect until the next president is in office

>>24668926
>Reagan takes office, lowers the taxes on the wealthy to 28%
Okay, you told me it worked. Now tell me why.

>>24665766
Why the fuck have they done that? What the fuck?

>>24668926
>regan
>did good

He did good for america but not the average american. Anyhow this isn't a politics thread

>>24668956
Lower taxes means companies aren't encouraged to take their business overseas where the taxes are already lower than that in the US, which means more business are created within the country, which means more people are hired to run those business, which means lower unemployment, which means more people have money, which means more money is put into the economy, which means more product is made to meet the new demand, which means MORE businesses are made to keep up with the demand, and so on.

>>24668926
Before Reagan, the US was the world's largest creditor.
After Reagan, the US became the world's largest debtor.

So fuck you and your revisionism.
Reagan fixed the economy, my ass.

>>24668986
Here's an idea. How about we tax all classes equally. If you do a 10% tax on the poor you do a 10% tax on the rich.

None of this raise taxes for the poor and lower them for the rich bullshit, or vice-versa.

>>24668986
that's why they all took their manufacturing jobs and went to china right?

>>24668743
Russia basically runs the ISS, they built it and man it.
They're currently the only country that can put people into space.
They won the space race.
Russia was also the first to most things involving space.

>>24669200
Who was first to land on the moon?


USA USA USA USA USA USA
>CHANTING