>…I could go on. Technically, all of these things “happened,” too, because they appeared in a then-in-canon “story,” but we wave them off either because we don’t like them, because they were a swing and a miss, or because they flew in the face of established character or break credibility or snap consistency.

>>51169052 (OP)
>>51169059
Based Waid

Cape comics 101. Everyone thinks they know the correct characterization of a character, but in the end it's all as good as headcanon.

>>51169052 (OP)
I always liked the super-hypnotism. And I know the vegetarian thing is Waid taking the piss out of one of his own stories, but I always liked that, too.

I like Waid, but... isn't he kind of hurting his own argument? So some people have done one-off things in the past that didn't change the essential nature of the character. So he killed some douche in a movie. Comes to the same thing, doesn't it?

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>>51169059
>break credibility
>snap consistency

>>51169101
We expect movies not to depict the one-off, out-of-character things. We expect them to stay completely true to the essential nature of the character.

Man of Steel did not meet those expectations.

>>51169101
But Byrne changed the essential nature of the character, the story became "good/ accepted" because of the other writers and the Damage Control

>>51169155
Yeah, but it wasn't because Clark killed Zod that Man of Steel didn't meet those expectations. Instead, it's because up until that point, Clark doesn't give us much reason to think he's in this game to protect people. The question I'm left with is, "Why these four people?" And the problem is that the answer is, "because plot."

>>51169052 (OP)
>>Superman’s first words upon donning his costume were “I look like an idiot” (SUPERMAN: SECRET ORIGIN);

Honestly I'm surprised they didn't use a variation of that line in Man of Steel. They seemed pretty ashamed that it was a superhero movie half the time as it was.

>>51169200
>They seemed pretty ashamed that it was a superhero movie half the time as it was.
Cape movies suck.

>>51169200
>They seemed pretty ashamed that it was a superhero movie half the time as it was.

Modern DC unfortunately usually is. Hal Jordan spends half the movie moping in his apartment. Batman's symbol gets all broken up and same color as his suit, Superman is...

Hell, Arrow literally has Oliver use Nolanbats's "I'm not a hero" line in the same fucking tone.

>>51169253
>marveldrone

>>51169052 (OP)
Fuck off Waid you fat little manbaby.

The ONLY time Superman had a set in stone no kill rule was the Silver Age. He killed plenty in the golden age and killed or had the killing intent enough times in Post Crisis and in the DCAU etc and in the FUCKING DONNER FILMS for it to not be a thing.

You're a good writer but quit it with this condescending bullshit where you act like some authority on superman when you're just a little shit clinging to one interpretation in spite of the OVERWHELMING evidence to the contrary.

God all he's doing is making me lose more and more respect for him the arrogant, condescending shithead.

>>51169253
kinda leaves me little hope for Flash and Wondy joining the Cinematic any time soon. Least until DC gets over themselves. You are a COMIC BOOK COMPANY the word COMIC is in your fucking name..get over yourselves. People ended up liking MoS to the extent they did in spite of what DC did to it.

>>51169052 (OP)
Waid makes a very good point here
Continuity is all about consistency not about what can prove your point at any time

>>51169320
Sadly the argument falls right back on him because Superman having a no kill rule isn't consistent either.

>>51169331
Or should I say not sadly because fuck this guy and the idea that people will cite him as some kind of authority on this shit when he's blatantly wrong here.

>>51169320
Though the thing to remember is that this is a Different Superman than what we have in the comics just as much as DCAU is pretty much its own separate thing. This is an Elseworlds situation I never went in thinking we'd get comic superman or Donner, I just hoped we wouldn't get Batman wearing Superman togs. And Overall the movie did good. \

>>51169294
People like Waid are unable to enjoy things.

>>51169312
>People ended up liking MoS to the extent they did in spite of what DC did to it.
By "people" you mean non-neckbeards, right?

>>51169320
>Continuity is all about consistency not about what can prove your point at any time
Careful, the anti-continuity troll might be around.

>>51169373
if by people that didn't tie this to any other superman but took it as its own entirety, then yes.

>>51169312
They liked it so much that it fell to third place in it's second week.

Mark Waid is a gigantic butt. Why would you listen to him about anything?

>>51169387
OK. However, people like >>51169389 don't belong to that group.

>>51169294
The fact that you can't criticize him without comic across like a foul-mouthed 12-year old throwing a tantrum doesn't make me think less of him as much as it makes me think less of you.

In fact, if people like you are so bothered by what he's saying, it makes me suspect that he might be on to something.

>>51169257

At least Marvel knows how to make a comic book movie that revels in the fact that it's a comic book movie.

I miss the days when a DC film could have the villain be a hunchbacked mutant whose master plan is to attack Gotham with remote controlled missile-toting penguins.

>>51169389
It's still doing very solidly for a superhero origins movie.

>>51169404
>a comic book movie that revels in the fact that it's a comic book movie.
A la Schumacher?

>>51169294
>act like some authority on superman
I don't agree with the guy on MoS...but if there are authorities on Superman, you'd better believe Mark Waid is one of them.

>>51169253
>Batman's symbol gets all broken up and same color as his suit

Which is utterly retarded. It's a yellow symbol, sure. OK. If you're up in front of him, you're gonna be able to see it.

If you're at the other end of the block? The only thing that'll give him away at night is the cloak and bat ears. You're not going to see the little yellow ovoid or the bat symbol as anything other than a reflection of sodium streetlights. It's actually acting as camouflage, breaking up what is otherwise a very large expanse of black in a fairly well-lit environment.

But of course WayneCorp cuts power to the street lighting at night for reasons nobody who works there can fathom. it's just their standing instruction from on high.

>>51169404
>a comic book movie that revels in the fact that it's a comic book movie.
What does that mean precisely?

>>51169423

Yes.

Though that was a case of potentially good films being ruined by retarded design and casting choices.

>>51169425

I see Mark Waid more of a man who's the top trivia master on Superman rather than one of the top authority on Superman.

>>51169405
Just shows what kind of money you can make with good marketing and trailers before people catch on. Not to mention this 3D bs that you have to pay extra for. I had to go out of my way to find the fucking film in 2D somewhere here.

>>51169403
Reddit detected.

I'm being foul mouthed on 4chan because it's 4chan ya wanker.

It bothers me because so many idiots who, just like him, are clinging to one specific interpretation of a character are citing him like it's fact. I've also seen him go into massive denial about Superman killing Darkseid in Final Crisis and acting like he was just "tampering with vibrations" and this additional little nonsense anecdote where he basically shits on John Byrne, a man who has contributed far more to the Superman mythology than Mark Waid ever has and likely ever will (especially with his unprofessional attitude these days), is just insulting to me.

Also, he might sound eloquent in that post but look at his twitter and he's far more childish than anything my post would suggest.

Overall, please shut up and actually read my arguments instead of that bullshit retort.

>>51169423
those movies are the antithesis of going in the opposite direction with some loon thinking "High Camp" is something marketable.

>>51169425
>if there are authorities on Superman
There aren't. And if there were, they'd understand that being an authority on something doesn't mean that you're always right and the others are always wrong.

>>51169425
He's the authority on the Silver Age incarnation of Superman. Him and also Alan Moore. I wouldn't say he's anything at all helpful when it comes to looking at Superman in any other era, especially not modern takes on the character.

>>51169439
He wrote "Kingdom Come" and "Superman: Birthright". The man knows Superman, not just which issue a robot butler Jor-El sent from Krypton helped Clark date rape a girl.

>>51169448
>some loon thinking "High Camp" is something marketable.
Avengers could have been it but instead it was boring.

>>51169434
and the reasoning for the chest symbol was to draw gunfire to the most heavy armored spot and not others places like his head.I don't remember where that was mentioned.

>>51169470
DKR.

>>51169437

A movie that isn't afraid to come across as "ridiculous" by changing everything to be more realistic or credible in the eyes of mainstream viewers.

Like turning Galactus into a giant cloud, or barring certain villains from showing up entirely because they use magic or delve too far into science fiction.

>>51169464
Dude, Kingdom Come is just Waid going "MY HEROES ARE BETTER THAN YOURS LALALALA" in an overly grandiose manner.

You're only proving his point.

>>51169464
His opinion on a 75-year-old character is not more valid than the one of a casual or a child.

He's a very good writer, though.

>>51169464

Writing two big stories in the past twenty years with Superman in it doesn't necessarily make you an authority on the entire character.

>>51169052 (OP)
>>Jor-El and Lara survived the explosion of Krypton and are floating in deep space in a deathlike coma inside a Kryptonite rocketship to this day (SUPERBOY 160);
wut is this true? Why hasn't Clark saved them?

>>51169398
>Mark Waid is a gigantic butt. Why would you listen to him about anything?

Because he's also wrote my favorite superman shit.

I think they COULD have sold it, if they had set it up better, but they wasted the rest of the not fighting stuff on stupid shit like that tornado, and hobo clark, and lois.

>>51169473
>it was retarded on purpose

>>51169479
Writing two GREAT stories doesn't necessarily make you an authority? What does, then? Do you have to get a special license from a DC-approved leprechaun?

>>51169493
>they wasted the rest of the not fighting stuff on stupid shit
You want a videogame, go to YouTUbe and type "playthrough."

>>51169473
Oh. see I was thinking of like American Splendor that sought to emulate the structure, layout and transitions of the comics.

By your definition isn't the ridiculous bombastic nature of The Dark Knight Rises a perfect comic book movie then? We've got theatrical villains, miraculous recoveries, power armour leg braces, uper advanced tank-cars and heli-jet things, nuclear bombs, giant prison pits, super-assassins, ravaged cities in the throes of a DMZ or No Man's Land style isolation, etc.

>>51169510
Nothing does. You don't get to be an authority on a character because it's a stupid concept. At best you can be more well informed than others and yet you can still be wrong or biased or myopic about stuff so no one is the authority.

All we have is a group of people willing to discuss elements and back them up with evidence from various stories and that's the way it should be. The fact that Waid is dismissive of other peoples' arguments by attacking the people behind the stories instead of looking at the stories themselves says plenty about what kind of person he is and how worthless his arguments are.

>>51169510
>What does, then?
Writing many more GREAT stories.

>>51169052 (OP)
that has got to be the most long winded and roundabout way of whining out "NOT MUH SUPERMAN" that i have ever seen. and good job making mention of mere ONE OFFs to try and make a point (and failing at it). yeah you make mention of things that superman did that no longer applies, but they were only made mention of ONCE, as opposed to the MULTIPLE times that Superman has killed.

>>51169526
>isn't the ridiculous bombastic nature of The Dark Knight Rises a perfect comic book movie then?
lol nope cuz its a DC movie not Marvel lmao

>>51169423
Schumacher made money. Or rather, Batman made money, but not on Schumacher's second movie to the same degree as the first, and it was critically panned.

Plus you're not really being fair. Batman and Robin has entered the hall of bad movies everyone has seen and enriched our lives with laughter. It's pretty cool.

>>51169405
Not really. It's going to finish under 500 million now unless something truly spectacular happens. Given that the military involvement is part recruiting tactic, part gigantic FUCK YOU GUYS OUR TOYS ARE BETTER tactic, it's unlikely to do brisk business in Russia or China. Those are the two largest markets left.

Hell, by Friday it may not even be on 430 million. Long list of costs, blah blah, Time Warner has form on making things look bad for their own gain but this is ridiculous etc, blah blah.


>>51169399
Lots of people didn't like it, and it's not really difficult to see why. I'm sure we've all been through the various pros and cons to the point of vomiting by now, but the truth is it's not a compelling box office draw when up against the competition of the last few days. The two leaders of the last five days are on 127 million and 160 million (worldwide) respectively: hardly the same amount MoS was dragging in at the same stage, but it's June. Those are good figures for June, and they're killing MoS now - with decent enough alternatives, nobody's going to watch it.

So yeah, OK, people liked MoS - people liked Superman Returns, but it couldn't save it.

>>51169558
>enriched our lives with laughter. It's pretty cool.
Which is more than Marvel movies can do.

BTW when we say "Marvel movies" do we include the Fox and Sony ones? IF we don't, we should.

>>51169558
>PLEEEEEASE I NEED THIS MOVIE TO FLOP
Oh, it's you again.

>>51169558
>Not really. It's going to finish under 500 million now unless something truly spectacular happens.
It's really not. There are plenty of estimates that suggest that it's looking at more like finishing off at around 600-700 million which is higher than Iron Man 1 (585 mill), thereby making it a very solid start.

>>51169558
People liked Superman Returns? God, I hated that movie.

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>>51169558
>military involvement
Sir yes sir!

Some days ago I visited a blog I usually follow. The owner doesn't like capes very much, but he liked the movie. He even made some nice comparisons: he liked the Supes/Zod fight because it made him think of Miracleman and Kid Miracleman.

>>51169510
>Writing two GREAT stories doesn't necessarily make you an authority?

By this logic Gail Simone is an authority on Deadpool because she wrote two great DP stories back in the day, even though she has since not touched the character.

You generally get to be an authority on a thing if you spend your life's work dedicated to the subject. Paul Levitz and Mark Waid might be authorities on superhero comics in the big two, but not on every single big two character. Waid could possibly get to be an authority on Flash to some degree due to his contributions to the Flash comics. But I don't him having that weight on Superman.

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>>51169155
>We expect movies not to depict the one-off, out-of-character things. We expect them to stay completely true to the essential nature of the character.

You poor naïve soul.

>>51169616
link to blog?

>>51169633
I would say expectation aren't the same thing as reality.

>>51169294
Go back to bed, Didio.

>>51169673
No time. I have to kill Nightwing in our next event. If I sleep now Johns will stop me. Out of my way!

>>51169676
THAT'S OUR DIDIO!
>stuido audience laughs and applauds as the credits roll.

>>51169464
>which issue a robot butler Jor-El sent from Krypton helped Clark date rape a girl.
Did this actually happen? Possibly with Bryne writing?

>>51169676
Implying Dan doesn't slather his arm in ky every morning, shove it up Geoff Johns' ass, and use him like a sock puppet.

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>>51169477
>>51169479

Yes. As a writer myself, I would never present myself as an "authority" on anything other than my own creations. For instance, I'm currently working on a play about Henry VII and I've never even hinted that I'm any kind of historian or that I have the knowledge of a biographer.

Even if my play turns out great it is still my interpretations of the characters involved and I would never pretend otherwise.

I can appreciate Mark Waid's devotion to his own personal view of the character, but he runs the risk of pushing his interpretation over all others. Plus, much of what he is saying is not based on any writer's authority, but on being a fan.

>>51169518

I'm not sure if you're trolling, just confused, or just so desperate to defend the shitty parts of the movie that you'd take that position.

>>51169727
>I can appreciate Mark Waid's devotion to his own personal view of the character, but he runs the risk of pushing his interpretation over all others. Plus, much of what he is saying is not based on any writer's authority, but on being a fan.

He's a writer. He's read hundreds-to-thousands of issues.

As far as comics go, he IS an expert. He's entitled to an educated opinion and he doesn't have to humor anyone who hasn't read a comparable amount of the material. He has credibility. He's not someone I'd say can write in academic journals and he's a far cry from the ideal expert, but in this field that's unfortunately as good as it gets.

Likewise, as something of a historian myself if I come across obvious flaws in the history of your play that don't work into the flow of your narrative, I'm not going to not criticize your decisions. Because your decisions may full well be awful. They could be great and I'll praise you if so, but it works both ways.

>>51169633
>implying james bond isn't just an alias that comes with the role of 007 and all the bond films are in the same universe.

>>51169788
And the latest 007 just happened to be born James Bond and took up the title of the legacy Agent that happened to be exactly the same as his name?

>>51169788
It's not. Try actually watching some Bond films.

>>51169758

But being an expert doesn't immediately make you an authority on the subject, and that's what we're talking about here.

>>51169758
>He's read hundreds-to-thousands of issues.

So have many fans.

>He's entitled to an educated opinion and he doesn't have to humor anyone who hasn't read a comparable amount of the material.

That's true of anyone, and therefore works both ways. Fans of the character who have spent their lives reading Superman and who have a different opinion do not have to humour Waid.

>Likewise, as something of a historian myself if I come across obvious flaws in the history of your play that don't work into the flow of your narrative, I'm not going to not criticize your decisions.

In which case, you are very much akin to the fan who has every right to dismiss what any one writer says about a character.

>>51169423
the latter of his movies is more "revels in the fact that Adam West Batman actually happened" than "comic book movie"

>>51169758
He probably could write academic papers on Superman, if he wanted to. For all I know, he does.

>>51169583
They won't work with Marvel again until Marvel clarifies who SHIELD answers to.

Marvel's not gonna do that until it's a plot point.

>>51169579
There are lots of quickly outdated and very optimistic estimates for any movie.

>>51169568
Hey, if it doesn't pick up $50m by this weekend, it's done at roughly the same cost/box office ratio as Superman Returns. Think about that before you...

Yeah. You're not a big thinker, are you?

>>51169566
They're not really Marvel Studios movies - there was a Marvel Studios prior to 2008, but the current incarnation is an LLC deliberately formed to make movies, rather than television and advising on other companies' movies as the previous incarnation had done. They may include many of the same figures, but legally and financially they're separate entities even if they're generally known by the same name.

So to answer your question, no, those are a separate class.

>>51169799
It's a flashback.

>>51169833

Hasn't MoS already done better in box office than returns? Overall gross speaking.

>>51169294
Tourette's: The Post.

>>51169257
>trying to start Marvel vs DC shit
I'm sick of you faggots. What's worse is that it's always the fucking moviecasual faggots who are trying to fucking kill each other. I'm sick of you people.

Forget tumblrfatties, the real cancer on /co/ is you goddamn pieces of shit from other boards coming here and acting like retards over a simple conversation.

>>51169442
>reddit
>>>/v/

Has everyone forgotten the basic DC multiverse facts? There is no guarantee that Man of Steel takes place in an already explored Superman universe, as far as I know. This means that Superman may not yet feel the way about killing that the comics depict him as feeling. Having to kill Zod could start that trend for him.

Also, in the universe of the Christopher Reeves Superman movies, specifically Superman II, Superman kills a de-powered Zod in cold blood, after torturing him by crushing his hand. Lois Lane then kills one of the other Kryptonians after the third falls to his doom.

>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUORL-bvwA0

>>51169866
At 2013 prices Returns would have made something over $450 million on a $360 million budget. That's just straight adjusted for inflation, doesn't value tickets - which have increased slightly ahead of inflation, so the take would likely have been higher overall.

>>51169200
Why do people keep saying that? How were they ashamed? Because they were trying to find a logical way to randomly call a guy Superman? Because some alien assholes caused a load of destruction and Superman just has to be in two places at once?!

>>51169442
Cosmic Book News detected.

>>51169912
What's that?

I wonder if Waid has the same problem with the old Tim Burton Batman movies.

>stupid shit happened in the civil age
>this negates modern interpretations of the character
And even if the killing of Zod and Co was by a pissy writer, the fallout was terrific and I really enjoy how it was handled. Same with the movie. The movie wasn't perfect by any means, but his killing of Zod wasn't what I'd consider a bad part. He clearly struggled with the decision to kill Zod, but Supes knew that if he didn't stop Zod more and more people would get hurt. Zod would never stop destroying what he loved because Supes took away his very purpose in life. He even screamed after he killed Zod, so it's not like he went WELCOME TO ERF.

>>51169583
Go shitpost somewhere else.

>>51169920
Check Waid's twitter.

>>51169906
Calmn down with your exclamation marks.

They're saying that because DC seems to be afraid of calling their movies superhero movies. Lately their takes on heroes have all been "make them as realistic as possible" and that includes shying away from their comic book origins, as though they're embarrassed.

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>>51169912
Military Software Detected.

>>51169971

I'm not the anon you're replying to, but let's be honest. There are some things for them to be embarrassed about in old DC comics.

>>51169294
Mark waid is little better than a fanfic writer. He just gets paid for his fanfic.

>>51169526
Nolanverse Batman is a weird case because it's really kind of a gangland crime drama with Batman elements injected into it. On the one hand yes, there is a guy dressed up as a bat and theatricality and some super science...But on the other hand, it's all hard super science. The movie spends a lot of time making sure we're all aware of how plausible everything is rather than just asking us to go with it like say, Iron Man asks us to just go with the arc reactor technology. There's still a reluctance to use more fantastic characters like Mr. Freeze or Poison Ivy. There's a reluctance to use elements of the characters they do use, like how Selina Kyle is never called Catwoman, Robin is merely John Blake's real name, Joker is just a guy that wears makeup, Bane uses painkillers rather than Venom, and Ra's Al Ghul is only figuratively immortal, not literally. Man of Steel is done in a similar vein. They felt the need to explain the costume as being Kryptonian battle armor (and go out of their way to desaturate it and remove the more "comic booky elements" of it). They call him Superman once, and only once, and even then it's in passing and not even something the character answers to.

Why do these things? Why go out of your way to avoid embracing the stylistic trappings of the property, when they're such a large part of what makes the property worth adapting in the first place? Why do we need such emphasis on stuff like eugenics to explain Superman's abilities or his personality?

Yes, realism and plausibility can be good things. But only when done to preserve the spirit of the franchise. They also carry with them the inherent risk of...well..making us wonder why the other stuff doesn't work. Look at how many people poke holes in The Dark Knight Rises; this is because the movie is done in a way that downplays fantastic elements to such an extent that when it tries to have them, it comes off as disingenuous at best, and nonsensical at worst.

>>51169997
>Also, he didn't fellate me online.

>>51169971

It's got nothing to do with DC, and everything to do with Warner. They saw Nolan's movies do extremely well, and the Donner revival doing badly, it's pure business sense, emphasize on "realistic" side that sells and downplay the comic book side that people think is goofy.

>>51169990
But I feel like you should embrace how silly your movies are. I think MoS found a good balance between a silly man saving everyone he can and more realistic motivations though.

“When critics disagree the artist is in accord with himself.”
― Oscar Wilde, The Picture of Dorian Gray

>>51170012
This is a good post.

>>51169558
>it's unlikely to do brisk business in Russia or China.

http://movies.cosmicbooknews.com/content/man-steel-opens-1-china

Man of Steel Opens #1 in China.

Sorry mate, I guess Superman is here to stay.

>>51170012
>it's all hard super science

No, not isn't.

The machine that is meant to be used at the end of Begins is far away from hard science

>it's really kind of a gangland crime drama with Batman elements injected into it
Just like the marjoity of comic books than.

http://gothamalleys.blogspot.cz/2011/08/comic-book-references-in-movies-part-v.html
http://gothamalleys.blogspot.cz/2011/08/comic-book-references-in-movies-part-vi.html
http://www.gothamalleys.blogspot.cz/2012/08/comic-book-references-in-movies-part.html

Nolan's Batman stays very close to the source material. From characters' inner developement, general story to the very composition of the scene and lines of dialgue.


Go read Year One, since you've clearly haven't read it.

Waid pls, this argument is completely flawed.

He'd basically saying "Superman did it that one time so we can ignore it, just like all these other things that only happened once."

Problem with that argument, is that Superman has killed way more than once:

Zod & co in the example he gave
Zod, Ursa and Non in Superman 2 (whilst they were defenseless)
Mxy in Whatever happened to the man of tomorrow
Jax-Ur and Mala in STAS
Doomsday in Death of Superman
Doomsday in Superman Doomsday (which had Supes throw Doomsday into occupied buildings)
Darkseid in Final Crisis

And that's just the main ones, without getting into the one shot villains during Superman's long history. Superman kills. He doesn't like it, but if left with no other option, he'll do it. Goyer already said that Zod's death is the basis for Kal's "no kill rule" in MoS2.

It's like critics are willing to ignore Superman's murder history and the circumstances surrounding Zod's death (it was Kal's first fight, he had no choice, he didn't even understand his own powers) just so they can justify their low review scores of a movie that's $15m away from outgrossing every hero that isn't Spider-Man, Iron Man and Batman domestically.

While I disagree with Mark Waid, I can see the place he is coming from. He has a vision of Superman and what he should do or should not and the movie completely went against what that.

But just because Superman killed Zod doesn't mean he is a cold-blooded killer now. He's not floating in space thinking "Hmmm... who should I kill next?" I suppose where I'm getting at is Zod needed to be taken out. No one else was going to be able to do it. A lot of people seem to think that because Superman was willing to kill, he should've done so sooner. But to me, it meant that he wasn't trying to kill him right away. He was even begging Zod to stop. That random family of four could've been anybody. Zod forced his hand.

The filmmakers never used the alternate universe Zod storyline as a justification. To me, the killing was justified purely within context. Cops are able to kill in extreme situations where they've lost control and people are in danger. But that doesn't (usually) mean they go hit the streets looking for someone to murder.

I don't buy Snyder's explanation that this killing was needed to establish his no kill rule, but it may have reinforced it. I'm sure any sane pacifist would go into some breakdown if they were ever forced to kill.

>>51170012
well said

>>51170012
>design details are more important than inherent core of the characters and story

>>51170012
The vaporizing machine, sonar, finger prints from a hole after a bullet....

Where did they spend a lot of time making sure we're all aware of how plausible everything is?

They didn't. You'd to suspend your disbelief.

>>51170336
>he didn't even understand his own powers
Which is retarded. You know what your body is capable of and he had 33 years to test his limits.

>>51170308
The machine at the end of Begins was a microwave emitter, right? Machines that emit microwaves exist. Hell, the entire reason microwave ovens exist is because people were dicking around with a radar that projected them.

And yeah, I did read Year One. Well before Begins came out. And it still doesn't change the fact that for all the little nods and references to establish "cred" with people like you, the overall tone and narrative is one that strives for plausibility rather than fantasy. The majority of superhero comic books sure as shit aren't like that. At all. He once claimed he wouldn't use Penguin, the one character that would fit perfectly into his universe, because (and this is a direct quote) "There are certain characters that are easier to mesh with the more real take on Batman we're doing. The Penguin would be tricky." That's close to the source material? When the creator of the thing doesn't think a high class mobster that runs a nightclub as a front for criminal activities somehow WON'T fit into a gangland crime drama?

And for all his plausibility Nolan also displayed a critical lack of research when it suited him.
It stays close to the source material? So which comic have I clearly not read where Ra's is the one that trains Batman? Which comic have I clearly not read where he isn't immortal and Lazarus Pits are figurative prisons used to repeat the same symbolism that had already been spent five minutes ago? Which comic have I clearly not read where Bane was trained by the League of Shadows? Hell, which comic have I clearly not read where the League of Shadows is a thing and rather than the League of Assassins?

Which comic should I pick up if I want to read the continuing adventures of John Blake?

Oh. But Bruce grew a beard, just like in the comics! Nevermind. You're right. That shows so much research and care that I don't know what I was thinking.