For the hell of it I'm going to post what Garth Ennis had to say.

>>27560593
JESUS CHRIST FRANK GET THAT FUCKING SPIDER OFF YOUR HEAD

Good find, OP. I like it. Have some Armory.

>>27560727
This is about what I expected from Ellis. I kind of agree with him, too.

>>27560779
Thanks, I posted these because I've been seeing a lot people talk about Frank's sanity with weak arguments, it's "oh mostly he kills a bunch of people, he's crazy" or "He kills bad people, he can't be" no elaboration those 4 pages shows how a proper argument for either opinion works. So does anyone have their own views that they would like to share?

>>27561002
Do you really expect people to write essay on 4chan?
Thanks for the scans btw.

>>27560727

interesting....

it's interesting that this "fuck it, it's entertainment" mentality gave us the most profound and hardest Punisher there is.

i keep feeling the more you try to step away from reality, the more you resemble it.

>>27561072
No, I see your point but I'd expect a paragraph or less as long as you care enough to properly get your point across, it's not a big deal though, just read and post your thoughts on the different views from the Marvel employees if you want to.
>>27560779
You posted something about Tim Bradstreet not showing Frank's eyes on the covers, forgot what you said, but this pic sort of reminds of that statement.

>>27561222
You should take into account that this is Ennis during Marvel Knights. He was barely getting started, and was more interested in sheer action and black humor than anything else. It's possible that, once he got into MAX and really started getting into the thick of it, he could start putting layers on Castle. Curiously enough, he once mentioned 9/11 as being a sort of catalyst for that chance, since, paraphrasing him a bit, "the world seemed to have become a lot less funny".

>>27561226
Yeah, the idea that, if the eyes are the windows of the soul, then Frank Castle has either shielded his soul so strongly that not even the tiniest hint of them can be seen... or he no longer has one. And it's entirely posible that the former eventually grew into the latter.

you know, every time i think of the Punisher i remember every story of a demented psycho, of drug Cartels and Militias terrorizing and torturing people, every crime that goes through... unpunished. and i feel great dispair that there is really no justice, not in New York, or Los Angeles, or Florida. Places like Mexico, like Colombia, like the Philipines, like fuck, everywhere in Africa and the middle east. that's when i wish my hardest someone like the Punisher existed. that a man or a group of men with guns just stops the motherfuckers... with bullets. and the only way to sleep well is to asure myself that sometimes, there are:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,501020701-265480,00.html

>>27560593
I forgot to mention the first page shows one of the reasons I disliked Punisher:Warzone, it took away that ability that no one talks about, yet defines him.

>>27561356
Thank you for posting that, here is my internet gift to you.
>>27561474
Didn't cause a large debate on /co/ a while back?

>>27561658
I have such a big man-crush on that wonderful guy...

>>27561474
To me, the best Punisher stories are the ones that really make you wish there was someone like him in the world. Your mind says no, that vigilantism doesn't work like that, that a real world vigilante wouldn't be half the man or half as efficient as Punisher is, but a little black spot in your heart just says "KILL 'EM ALL!".
Garth Ennis said that he'd never agree with the idea of a Punisher vigilante in the real world, but that, while doing research for an arc of Punisher MAX, he suddenly found himself wishing there was someone like him. That arc was The Slavers.

I might as well go all out , does anyone think Jonah Hex is a sociopath? I was reading the recent interview about Weird Western Tales, and I was shocked when Justin Gray referred to Hex as sociopath, I didn't see that coming, I kept asking why? I don't see or understand how Hex can be considered a sociopath, the world keeps coming at him, not the other way around, his violence is a reaction to a world acting violently towards him, he chooses not to stoop over, he tried to leave, and she wouldn't let him.

>>27561753

and it shows. at the end, when the girl falls crying in the street, i found myself agitated because of how breathless it left me.

>>27561868

Sociopath is the one unable to work in the society, he can't relate, he can't comunicate, he can't integrate himself along with other humans. he doesn't belong, he is just not capable of it.

in a twisted, hostile society, there is no help but to become sociopathic.

>>27561868

Sociopath in the modern sense, many of the things during the Wild West days are now barbaric or down right illegal.

What was normal then isn't normal now.

>>27561868
To me, what's interesting about Hex is the same thing that's interesting about Conan: he's a man who never really managed to "fit" in society, that always retained a wild, savage nature within him that drove his actions while keeping him from accepting or even understanding certain necessary notions to live with other people. The ease with which he kills men is only the biggest of them.

>>27561885
I actually did some research on human trafficking in Eastern Europe once, for a school project. Never. Again.
I'd only recommend it if you ever wish to lose all faith in humanity.

>>27561955
>>27561954
Thank you, that clears things,usually when I think Sociopath, I always picture raving lunatic or the Scorpio Killer both the real life and Dirty Harry versions.

>>27561753
>To me, the best Punisher stories are the ones that really make you wish there was someone like him in the world.

I'd like some that went past that. Feels like they never really examine him from all sides. All of Ennis' stuff's pretty good, but most of the stories end with the Punisher utterly vindicated (because the bad guys are so incredibly evil), ignoring any bigger picture. Ennis never seemed much up for having much moral abiguity about things.

He's a psycho who targets other psychotics. He's no more admirable than Rorscharch, and about as effective. I wouldn't be surprised if they shared the same deluded fanbase.

>>27562145
someone didn't read the article.

>>27562145

please leave this thread inmediately.

you seem unable to think a protagonist can be unbound to your definition of hero. the Punisher is not even a hero. why do you read a story about the Punisher expecting Heroics is uncomprensible.

It really wasn't until Punisher Born that Ennis really started to take a look at what "The Punisher" really was. Both Born and Valley Forge, Valley Forge explore this idea a little bit. This idea that The Punisher was born in Vietnam and Frank Castle died in Central Park.

And actually, Jason Aaron's run has really focused on this quite a bit more then even Garth Ennis did.

>>27562141
What's great about these incredibly evil villains is that other Punisher stories try to rationalize Punisher from a logical point of view. Ennis, on the other hand, aims straight for your heart, showing you an evil that's absolutely wretched and unforgivably cruel, but at the same time unmistakedly believable and plausible. Your mind says no, but your heart says "Go get 'em, Frank, fuck them up but good!". And once you realize how that story made you feel, it hits you right in the balls. Even if they were fictional, you very strongly wished for the brutal demise of a human being, and very probably cheered when it finally happened. What does that tell you about yourself?
For instance, before Punisher MAX, I had never felt good about a man brutally beating up a woman. And I haven't since.

>>27561474
Someone should make a comic about this guy

>>27562417
That's true, yeah. I'd like more stories that incorporate that feeling into the story more, examine it, rather than just ending with it. Though with that said, there were some, like in the Slavers one I've just remembered there was the social worker lady who was trying to deal with the slavers by legal means, who was terrified by her own support for the Punisher. Forgot about that.

So does anyone else think there is a part of The Punisher that believes he actually helping to an extent? this was the case prior to Ennis in 616, it was more than just that he hated them, and Aaron had young Frank process that if he didn't do anything in that attempted mob execution in the recent issue, that would be a lot of harmed bystanders.

Childish splatter porn for teenagers and middle aged conservatives. Enjoy jerking off to ol' invincible Frank splattering the latest cartoon junkie against the sidewalk!

He's a modern day Bulldog Drummond.

>>27562562
I had a feeling like that with Widowmaker's subplot. All the while I kept thinking "Yeah, this is good and all, but what's this got to do with anything?"
Then this page hit me right in the face.

Frank Castle is not a psychopath.

Marc Specter is a psychopath.

>>27562725

He's sociopathic regardless of how you look at it though.
He is breaking the law and going against conventional rules and behavior.

Frank may suffer from psychopathic tendencies, he maybe rational but you don't reach what he has done without being a bit crazy.

>>27562952
>a bit crazy
Yeah but who isn't, am I right?

>>27562952

Tell me whats so crazy about Killing assholes who deserve it? At least he gets shit done.

>>27563009
The crazy part is killing. He doesn't fit into today's flimsy social norms (which change rapidly as we've seen from the last 500 years) of being a pacified shit and letting everything be handled by someone else.

But he does get things done, yes. NO ONE can argue that.
Unlike that useless Batfuck whose only strong point is the ability to make you wait longer before your loved ones are murdered in his game of cat and mouse.

>>27563009

It's because, at least from what of gleaned of storytimes of the MAX series (Need to check it all out one of these days), that deep down he doesn't do it out of any sense of justice, he does it out of his unhealthy love of bloodshed and battle. He wanted Vietnam to never end and he got his wish when his family was gunned down right in front of him, a war against criminals that could sate his battlelust until the day he died. That's what I find interesting about The Punisher and I want to read more about him, he kills the scum of the Earth that deserve it, but he himself is one fucked up human being that in some ways is no better than some of the people he kills.