I heard the ending was really rushed, like they thought they were getting 6 issues but only got 5 or something

>>20614562
Rushed isn't the word I'd use. I'd say unexpected. I liked the ending. It was a surprise.

>It's like Die Hard, but in a [insert place here].
I hear this is often how they would pitch action movies in the 80s and 90s. I don't think they ever made one in a cave

Points for originality

Scores of people are reading right now, right? One person? Anyone?

CONCLUSION!

>>20616712
I was just catching up with the story. Pretty cool stuff

>>20616712

I'm reading, and quite enjoying it actually

Okay! Tell me how you liked it.

>>20617612
Hahahahaha!!! I like it! As someone say before the ending was maybe a little too rushed but still pretty cool

Bump for other people which could want to read it!

bump

Thanks man

fistrans the

Hey fuckheads!!!! Stop pirating Steve and Jeff's comics this is an indie book, not a mainstream comic any sales loss affects the creators much more adversely than a company like Marvel or DC both of which are backed financially by huge mega corporations.

>>20622428
I own all the single issues. This is my way of telling people the book is good. Recommendations aren't enough on here. I'm sorry.

>>20622524
Bought and enjoyed it all as well, this is exactly the sort of comic that ends up falling under people's radar, especially since the book's been done for a bit now.

The series wasn't rushed by the publisher. Image left us alone to make the book we believed in. As for the pacing, obviously not everyone will agree, but I think the collected book races right to the finish line. And I am seriously proud of the underwater sequence in issue 4. I doubt I'll get to draw something as skin-crawlingly disturbing as that ever again.

As for putting all the pages up here. What can I say? I get that this is how things go, and I'm trying to live in the same decade as everyone else. If nothing else, I'm flattered someone thought enough of the book to take the time to scan and post it.

Anyway, that's that. If anyone has any questions about the book, post them here or ask me on twitter @steve_lieber

>>20622524
>>20622567
Pics or it didn't happen bitches!

>>20622856
Howdy! Thanks for this nice little book.

Are you hands permanently stained from all that black ink?

>>20622861
That's some weapons-grade whine there.

This was the project that finally broke me of my habit of bringing my brush to a point in my mouth. That's more ink than any man should swallow.

>>20623039
>>20622856
Wow. This is awesome. What are you working now (if you are still here that is)?

Thanks for asking. My current project is an OGN that hasn't been announced yet. Unfortunately, I can't share any specifics until he publisher makes the announcement.

I read the title andI hear Tom Waits in my head.

Oh my. I wonder if that's actually Steve Lieber.

Wow. He wrote about it on his Twitter. I feel really bad now. You guys should buy this.

>lerrung coach.

>Project seshast

>>20631640

Or he should realize it isn't 1996 and just come online with the rest of the world.

Cover price - Printing - shipping - store's cut - publisher's cut = fat bowl of dick for the creator

Free access + ad space + no one taking a cut = creator comes out ahead

Work with us or work against us. By the way, we're already at the finish line waiting for you to get it.

Well, I'm definitely me.

I don't know 4chan's rules well enough to know if linking to my studio's Etsy store is permitted, but if anyone's interested in picking up the tpb, google "periscopestudio" and "etsy." There should still be a few copies for sale that Jeff Parker, Ron Chan and I all signed, and I sketched in.
(Normally I'd just direct people to Amazon,but Underground was Boing Boinged last week, so they're sold out until Image ships them more copies.)

I find the fact that /co/ and 4chan as a whole has become more well known by comic creators both awesome and terrifying.

like one day geoff johns is going to read a thread here only to be met with a post about someone wanting to rub his penis in his dead sister's ass crack.

also why hasn't PAD internet whined us out of existence yet?

>>20634167

Anon: I totally get the economics. I share a studio with Erika Moen (DAR) and Dylan Meconis (BITE ME & FAMILY MAN) who've been putting their comics on the web since they were teenagers, so I get to see how the numbers work every day.

The problem is this: I hate looking at the kind of comics I do on a screen. I read plenty of funny comics on the web, but adventure stories just don't work for me online. Heavy brush and ink line art art seems ill-suited for monitors, and the storytelling rhythm is sort of *off*, somehow. I think it's an inferior experience for the reader. Or at least it is for me, but when I'm creating a comic, I'm have to go by my own tastes.

Underground was a labor of love for me and Parker, and we got exactly zero dollars from the publisher to do it. This wasn't a money thing. Our goal was to produce a book- a physical book- that we ourselves would want to read. I wouldn't want to read it as a webstrip with Project Wonderful ads, so it we didn't offer it that way.

>>20635149
Steve, like I said before, I posted the story in the hopes of getting it some exposure. I post stories that I enjoy in the hopes that it will generate some interest and discussion in books that some people would have otherwise ignored. I've had numerous people thank me for posting things, assuring me that they were planning on buying the stuff that I'd posted. I own all the singles, I'm a fan of both you and Jeff Parker. If you want me to delete this thread, I'd be fine with it. Just say the word.

>>20635234

Internet man: I genuinely appreciate your taking the time to show people my work. Let's leave 'em up.

I got into most of my favorite bands after hearing them on 3rd generation cassette mix-tapes or my crappy alarm clock radio and getting curious enough about them to go pick up a CD or see them live. It feels like a safe bet that things will eventually work the same way with the stuff that I do. Like I said on twitter yesterday, I'm willing to trust that Jeff's and my readers will compensate us for the work.

>>20635789

Hooray!

You assholes. Now I feel like buying this...

>>20636597
You ought to. It's good stuff.

>>20634803

Unless your posts are behind a membership wall, you're gonna get more cartoonists popping in here. It's inevitable. How will they react to the unfiltered abuse they encounter? Hard to say.

I'm lucky. Most of my work is on low-profile projects, so I don't get a lot of hate, and what little I do get doesn't bother me. It's the internet. Not everyone is nice. This is news?

Still, some guys are likely to freak out. Let's just hope they've got the sense to not click on a link they if they suspect it might ruin their day.

>>20637236

Well, said...

hey steve have you noticed that your last name rhymes with justin biebers

Loved this book Steve, very fun, and I got all the issues, now I need the TPB to show some of my friends since I don't want their dirty fingers touching the single issues. You and Parker hit it out of the park.

>>20637607

It's true. We dated for a while, but it had to end when I demanded we hyphenate our names, and he insisted that Lieber-Bieber sounded too stupid even for youtube.

>internet man posts a storytime, nothing unusual
>artist of comic shows up in thread

WHAT THE F

WHAT THE F

This was pretty good, Steve. Have a baby sloth.

Well, one thread to make me smile tonight.

Oh god, someone please ask another question. I can't let a thread about my comic end with Justin Bieber and David Blaine.

>>20638463
What do you like to draw? What's the thing that you just love to draw, the kinda stuff that makes you jump at any chance to play with it or them? Tell me your secrets, Bieb-- Eh, Lieber.

>>20638338

There we go. I just knew putting the work out there would pay off eventually.

Since you're here I just want to say that water sequence was crazy intense. I was feeling the claustrophobia

I can't think of a question

>>20638463
How do you feel about webcomics? Do you think they may ever replace print comics?

Just popping back in to say that I loved Whiteout.

>>20638691
You drew in my copy of Whiteout at Baltimore Comic-Con. I appreciate that!

>>20638463
How hard is it to get into the business of writing comics for a publisher? I'm nineteen years old and currently attending film school but my REAL dream is to be a comic book writer some day whether it be for the household names or an indy publisher or whether it be a short series or a run on an existing series I know thats what I strive to be. Any tips or advice you could give us aspiring comic book writers? Thanks for taking the time to talk on some forum to readers, loved the book, will be picking it up.

Mr Lieber,

What did you think about the Whiteout movie?

nice

>mfw i arrived to this thread via twitter

>>20638338
That's a really cute baby sloth :3

If Steve won't post the link to where you can buy Underground directly, then I will.
http://periscopestudio.etsy.com

Each copy is signed and sketched in by Lieber and Parker and seriously this book is completely worth buying. I bought all the individual issues *and* the TPB. One of my favorite comics this year and probably of all time.

>mfw Steve Lieber is on 4chan being delicious.

What's next? Adam Hughes on /co/?

...I think my universe would end if it happened.

So, how many creators have we had confirmed on /co/? Dan Slott, that person from Adventure Time, a few /co/mrades who went on to become animators or working in animation(ex. Squid), who else?

Also, Steve Lieber, you are awesome and Whiteout was fantastic stuff(didn't care as much for Whiteout:Melt, though that was more the story than art's fault.)

>>20639976

>>20639976
Geoff purportedly came on (using a fan's iPad) after hours during one of the cons earlier this year, but he never did anything definitive.

Just wanted to say that after seeing this thread, I'll be buying this.

Comics being posted on /co/ regularly introduces me to great stuff that I wouldn't know about otherwise.

>Thanks for your request.

>It has been added to our database and the thread will be archived as soon as enough request for that thread have been made.

>This thread has been requested 2 times now.

Seriously, anons, save this one for future generations, so that all might know of the time when the internet and comics creators came together in glorious union

>>20640342
This thread has been requested 3 times now.

Done!
Thanks for your request.
It has been added to our database and the thread will be archived as soon as enough request for that thread have been made.
This thread has been requested 4 times now.

>>20640297 Comics being posted on /co/ regularly introduces me to great stuff that I wouldn't know about otherwise.

Exactly. 80% of my collection is because of /co/ storytimed threads.

Thread 20614483 has already been archived.

It is probably still waiting to be reviewed by the mods, which means it can take a few days until it is available in the archive.

>>20640784
It's not going to be accepted by the mods of 4chanarchive. They're going to delete this.

>>20640157

Do you have that entire thread?

>>20638504

My favorite thing to draw is the natural world- especially dramatic environments: National Geographic/Discovery Channel's Planet Earth-type stuff. It's compelling to me both as a setting for stories, and for the kinds of images and shapes and textures I like to draw.

Underground had it's origin in an article I read by Tim Cahill, who writes a lot of great man vs nature stuff. He started his essay off with an impressive list of all the different ways he'd heard of cavers getting maimed or killed. I immediately knew I wanted to draw a cave story.

I want to say that after i read a GREAT story on 4chan , I BUY IT. Free advertising ya know ? Thanks

>>20640964
Hmm, pretty cool.
Speaking of caverns, you ever heard the song "Dark As The Dungeon", by Johnny Cash? I can't not think of that song when I think about caves and mines.

>>20640881
I do indeed - http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZXM0LKFN

>>20638590

There's a ton of web comics I love: Chris Onstad's Achewood, Scott Kurtz's PvP, Lucy Knisely, Kate Beaton, Meen Comics, Erika Moen's DAR, Family Man, Platinum Grit, Oglaf, Octopus Pie, Diesel Sweeties, Nedroid. I could go on and on. The alt-comics energy that expanded my idea of what comics could be when I was first getting serious about comics-- that energy's all on the web now.

As for whether webcomics will replace print comics, I assume that before too long, the tech will advance to the point where that's no longer a useful distinction.

ooooohhhh

I say Steve...can I draw a character that you like for you?

Right now? :D

Just so I can say I did (it)!

>>20638760

It's tough to break in as a writer if you don't also draw, and it's even tougher to do so for established publishers.

If you want to work in the indies, or webcomics, finding a collaborator is hard, particularly when if you don't have a budget. Everyone already has their own creator-owned project, and they fill the rest of their time doing work that pays the bills.

Some advice:
1. Have an active net-presence under your own name. Write a lot of smart blog entries and message board posts about comics. Impress prospective collaborators and publishers with how sharp, savvy, and entertaining you are.

2. Use every resource you can find to network with artists, publishers and other writers,. Hunt message boards. Attend local and national conventions.. Post notices on the bulletin boards of the comics shops, art supply stores, art schools and coffee shops in your area. If there's a publisher in your area, make yourself known to them. Landing an internship with a publisher can be really helpful, too.
3. Start small. Begin your collaborations with short stories- no more than eight pages. Publish these as mini-comics and put them on the web. Get them into as many hands as humanly possible. (cont)

>>20638760

(cont)

4. A little money goes a long way in getting potential collaborators to actually finish the work and not flake out. An inexperienced artist is going to take at least ten hours per page, so even that eight-pager is going to take at least 80 hours at the drawing board.
5. Be selective. Don't just work with an artist because he or she is available. A few amateur problems in the work is one thing, but if your name is on something that looks truly crappy, people will just assume that the writing is crappy, too.
6. Consider learning to draw yourself. You're 19. I know several good artists who started at your age. You don't need to be Michelangelo. You just need to be able to get your story across. A full-time freelance illustrator needs to be able to draw anything and everything, but that's something different. No one is gonna hold it against you if you only write about the stuff you can draw.
7. Hang in there. It's gonna take a while.

And I apologize for the self-serving nature of this, but I co-authored a book (with an awful, awful, awful fucking title) that might be of some help:
http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Idiots-Guide-Creating-Graphic/dp/1592579426/

Again, apologies for both the self-plug and the book's fucked-up title, which I emphasize is not meant to be insulting.

>>20635149

>The problem is this: I hate looking at the kind of comics I do on a screen. I read plenty of funny comics on the web, but adventure stories just don't work for me online.

Except everyone here reading and enjoying this have no such hangups. The audience is what matters in the end.

>Heavy brush and ink line art art seems ill-suited for monitors, and the storytelling rhythm is sort of *off*, somehow. I think it's an inferior experience for the reader.

Look into CDisplay. Having to click multiple images and load them separately doesn't do digital comics justice. I never read comics here, I always download them from some place else.

>Or at least it is for me, but when I'm creating a comic, I'm have to go by my own tastes.

Unfortunately what you personally like isn't necessarily what actually works in reality. You admit the economics work, yet refuse to partake in them.

>Underground was a labor of love for me and Parker, and we got exactly zero dollars from the publisher to do it. This wasn't a money thing. Our goal was to produce a book- a physical book- that we ourselves would want to read. I wouldn't want to read it as a webstrip with Project Wonderful ads, so it we didn't offer it that way.

I'm going to be a little nasty now. This was goddamn stupid, and makes comic book artist look like fools. So a publisher just made hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars off of work you did, and you made nothing. Thanks. I'm sure all the hardworking artists and writers out there trying promote their work to various publishers really appreciate the example you set for them. Next time they walk into an office and an editor gives them an offer of a fuck up the ass with no lube they'll have you to thank.

This thread turned surprisingly cool.

>>20641917
Dude, as a full-time employee of a significant comics publisher (not Image), I can confidently inform you that you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.

>>20641917

"I'm going to be a little nasty now. This was goddamn stupid, and makes comic book artist look like fools. So a publisher just made hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars off of work you did, and you made nothing."

First, I didn't make "nothing." I made a book and I got it into a the hands of a couple thousand people who love books as much as I do.

Second: I know what the sales numbers are. Our deal with Image isn't what anyone who knows anything about business could call exploitation. We put out an Image Comic without zombies, superheroes, or John Layman. It's a spelunking thriller. If Image had been watching the bottom line, they would've canceled us before the book wrapped.

The basic Image deal is pretty well known. You can google it if you want to know more. They do the pain-in-the-ass pre-press and publishing work, arrange for better placement in the distributor catalog then the non-exclusive publishers, and sell the book into several hundred more stores than we would have reached otherwise. In exchange, they take reasonable flat fee. That's it. No percentage of royalties and (this is the big one) no rights at all. There's a reason Scott Kurtz has published 40-some issues of PvP there.

If Underground somehow hits it huge, and the movie people try to buy the rights and the cosplay girls start wearing little caving helmets, Jeff Parker and I will be the ones getting rich, not Image. And if it never finds its audience, well, Image will be out a few thousand dollars, and I've still got a book I'm so fucking proud of, I want it's cover carved on my tombstone.

>>20641917

"Except everyone here reading and enjoying this have no such hangups. The audience is what matters in the end."

And here I have to just flat-out disagree. When it comes to comics like Underground or Whiteout, I'm not drawing for "the audience." I'm drawing for me. I've got a whole other career as a storyboard artist and occasional mainstream comics artist where I worry about other people's opinions, and that pays my bills just fine. But when I do an indy comic, my one and only job is making something I want to read. Sorry if that annoys you, but it's the truth. Worrying about what the audience wants is how you get Whiteout the Movie instead of Whiteout the Comic.

>>20643030
But what audience dosn't like lesbians?

>>20641917
Are you high?

>>20643081

This whole thread is a thinly-veiled promotion.

That said, it's a free comic, so meh.

Steve Lieber I think that you're a pretty swell guy.

What are some of your favorite comics that you have read?

>>20643430
but lesbians are the less-evil and less-diseased kind of gays, who only need to meet the right man to be cured

bump

hey.... HEY! STEVE! You rule!

Anyways, I do have a question. A while back you did a signing at the TFAW in Portland with Parker and Bendis. You signed my copy of Underground and drew a neat sketch in it and talked to me for 5 mins! (Making you and Parker the bro-est bros in comics). During this, you sneezed in it. My question is: Can I clone you?

Rick Remender thought this was hilarious and jokingly suggested a Deadliest Game ranch. I thought that would be cruel

PS- still bummed I didnt get a pic with you

>>20639734
I don't know if you're checking this, but Dar was a freaking amazing comic, and I have a FtM friend who was immensely influenced by it. Erika Moen, you rock, and your comics rock, too.

Plus, your FML comic was unabashedly hot.

Hey dudes, I understand being confused about how selling comic books works, it is a huge, confusing ordeal. I'd be happy to explain some of the behind-the-scenes logic and money that goes into it :)

There's three ways to have your work published.
-Print On Demand (POD)
-Self-publishing
-Through a F'reals publisher

--PRINT ON DEMAND
All you gotta do is upload your finished pages to a company like Lulu or ComiXpress at no cost to yourself and then just point your readers at the "buy" link. Unfortunately, the quality of POD books are a mixed bag. I have bought some decent-looking books, but more often than not the quality is well below what you would buy from an off-set printer (mass-produced print run). The cash dolla numbers are also not conducive to earning a living. If you *only* have people buy the book from the website, then you earn a couple bucks. (I was selling a full color book for $15 and only making about $2 per sale) If you want bring copies of your book with you to conventions or get them in book stores, you have to buy your POD book at cost and believe me POD is *the most expensive* way to produce a book if you want to have physical copies for yourself. They cost well over double/triple what it costs to do an off-set print run.

SUMMARY: Generally poorer quality, pittance profit to earn through website sales, fucked in the ass prices to pay in order to acquire at-cost copies of the book to sell in real life.

--SELF-PUBLISHING
Going this route enables you to have control over every single aspect of the book, which is both a blessing and a curse. Underground is a full color book, which is shockingly expensive to print. When you are printing off-set (that is, one large print run that produces all your books in one go), the cost of each book goes down per how many books you are producing. The printers that I've worked with typically don't even offer print runs below 500. In order to keep your book cost effective, you typically need to order between 1,000-2,000 copies. A friend of mine just did a full color book with a print run of 2,000 copies and it cost roughly $10,000 to produce (not including the many hundred more dollars it cost to ship them from the printer to their house, and then there's the eternal self-publisher's dilemma of OH SHIT WHERE DO I PUT ALL THESE BOOKS)

Okay, so let's say you have the thousands of dollars to cover the cost of off-set printing and you have the space to store these books. Your work is not yet over, my friend! You now must become a business person who handles promotion, distribution and the many, many, many million more tasks that come with handling your own books. This is a full time job. I easily spend six days of the week dealing with the business of self-publishing and I'm lucky if I have one day to actually *draw* more comic pages.

If you are already working full time on actually drawing comics and other freelance (Like Parker and Lieber, usually on multiple projects at the same time.) then there honestly is not any time to take on the second job of being a publisher/advertiser/distributor/complaint desk in addition to being a cartoonist and writer.

The unified goal among all self-publishers is to at least break even, something that can take years to accomplish.

(Self-publishing Continued)

SUMMARY: Control over everything, but at a huge up-front cost. Hope to break even, consider yourself lucky if you do so and consider yourself a huge success if you manage to turn any profit. Full time job that makes it incredibly difficult to continue to produce new pages in addition to all the publishing duties that you have to take on for yourself.

--PUBLISHER:
The benefits of working with a publisher is that they take on all the costs of the book production, distribution to stores, reimbursement for damaged copies, and advertisement and promotion. Like I've said above, these tasks eat up an immense amount of time. They are a full time job in and of themselves.

The publishing industry has been hit very hard by the recession and other factors, so they are generally now offering a fraction of the advances and royalties that they once did. Underground is a book that is pretty unique, I don't think there's any other comic that can claim the tag "Spelunking Thriller", which makes this book a pretty big gamble for a publisher to take on, as this genre has no precedent for being popular or not (Read: Whether the publisher will make back its money or not)

By working with Image, Lieber and Parker did not actually make any profit (neither did Image), but at the same time they did not lose any of their own money either. And they still *own* Underground. Lieber mentioned earlier that if Underground does "take off" then he and Parker are the ones who will reap the benefits, not Image.

SUMMARY: It's hard/impossible to get a publisher with money for an advance to take a gamble on a book concept that has not already proven to be a money maker. Though Image does not own Undgergound, they got it produced and into bookstores at no cost to Parker and Lieber (like POD and Self-publishing would have) and allowed them the time to continue working on the projects that were already paying their bills in the first place.

Hope that clears up some of the mystery surrounding how people make money selling their books! :)

No.20644872
Thank you! <:)

I really liked your webcomic.

>my face when we're hearing from industry pros who are also bros

This thread should be archived, if only for the convo with Steve and publishing information.

The comic's pretty damn awesome, too.

>this thread

Rattle Big Black Bones
in the Danger zone
there's a rumblin' groan
down below
there's a big dark town
it's a place I've found
there's a world going on
UNDERGROUND
they're alive, they're awake
while the rest of the world is asleep
below the mine shaft roads
it will all unfold
there's a world going on
UNDERGROUND
all the roots hang down
swing from town to town
they are marching around
down under your boots
all the trucks unload
beyond the gopher holes
there's a world going on
UNDERGROUND


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciBAMhLiwyQ

I think publishing tips from Erika and hunting my clones for sport is a GREAT place to wrap up the thread. Thanks to everyone here for letting me crash the party, and for opening my eyes a little bit.

I hope the thread is archived, but in case it isn't, Parker and I have decided to take that big step:
http://www.undergroundthecomic.com/2010/10/whole-book-for-free-or-learning-something-from-4chan/

>>20648496

>>20648496
>>20648496
you are a great artist and bro of the board

Tell Jeff Parker to stop by sometime, I know that Internet Man would jizz his pants if he did

Did... did this just happen? Am I still asleep? Is this real life?

>>20648496
Has the thread been archived? Cause once this thread 404's your link on the site wont work any more.

>>20649543
It's been archived, but we still have to wait to see if it'll make the final step into archive-dom. I hope it does.

>>20641917
assholeofthecenturyaward.jpg

If it doesn't get archived, I've capped the thread.

Dayum.

I wish this would happen more.

Bump so that link isn't for nothing.

Bump for /co/ history. :)