Hey, I LIKE Total Drama, fella...

Hope someone agrees with me.
Man would I love to see Brackenwood made into a commercial series.

>>19737354
Well, you're the cancer.

FELLA.

i like johnny test

>>19737380
Okay, that's fine. At least I don't judge people by what they like.

Flash can be good. See also Wakfu.

>>19737380
I'M NOT YOUR BUDDY, GUY

My hate of Scott Fellows will be forever undying.

I was okay with Johnny Test.
Then I discovered /co/
Then I hated Johnny Test.
Then it wound up just coming on the TV when I had it on for background noise.
chuckled a couple of times, gets maybe 1 out of every 10 jokes to be funny.

Though I do agree that the flash is balls.
With total drama "oh god why are there 3 seasons of this already," I thought the writing was actually really funny and decent.

But again, the flash is total balls.

>>19737397
I'm not your Guy, Friend.

>>19737312

Except Johnny Test and TDwhatever are actually cheaper than the shows you mentioned. CN keeps them around because they are cheap and popular enough to give good ratings.

Don't watch things you hate. You know, logical behaviour..

Why I made this thread with what I don't understand is the fact that people have claimed Johnny Test is only on CN due to the low-budget, however given examples amazing things can be created on low-budget productions and not totally suck ass.

TDI is shit because it's Canadian. Canadian animation has always been 3rd rate, second only to Korea with the amount of shitty animation they produce.

France and the USA have always been the countries making the best cartoons. Japan is like the idiot savant child of our big, dysfunctional family, the one that can make beautiful works of art one but shits all over the walls and can't carry on a conversation with a female without molesting her. We don't talk about him but we show his art off to the neighbors.

>>19737443
It's not about watching the shows hated.
What I'm trying to understand is CN's reasoning to utilize Flash into making something that could become another classic.

>>19737474
Wow, you like anthropomorphizing things

Remember, flash is only the tool, it's all about the animators and the budgetting.

>Good flash shows
>Foster's Home
>Metalocalypse
>Harvey Birdman (excluding season 1)
>Home Movies

>Bad flash shows
>Atomic Betty
>Hi Hi Puffy Ami Yumi
>Mucha Lucha
>Johnny Test (excluding season 1)
>Coconut fred (probably)
>Hero 108

Harvey Birdman didn't start out flash animated, neither did Johnny Test.

>>19737474
Liking your analogies.

>Foster's
>good Flash

Yeaaaah, no. Ugly and simplistic, sorry. Wakfu's the only decent Flash show.

>>19737474
Bro, a lot of Simpsons animation, during the good seasons, was by Anivision of korea.

>>19737354
I understood your Gaffigan reference. High five.

>>19737391
>>i like johnny test

>>19737549
NO IT WASNT!!!! MATT GROENING DREW THEM ALL!!!

>>19737517
>Mucha Lucha bad

Explain.

>>19737410
Are you me?

>>19737517

This, you talk about flash like it was a big magic machine with two bottons, one that says "produce good cartoon" and one that says "produce bad cartoon". Cartoons like Foster's are naturally more expensive, since you actually have to hire a decent team of animators, writes and etc, while stuff like Johny test is probably using low grade graduates from some Vancouver film school.

>>19737583
WITH ONLY TWO PENCILS AND HE HAD TO WALKED IN THE SNOW WITHOUT SHOES TO THE STUDIO.

>>19737474
>>Japan is like the idiot savant child of our big, dysfunctional family

Did you know that japan had a part in tiny toons and manry other warnerbros animations.

Just so you guys know, Johnny Test is actually animated in the Phillipines.

Harvey Birdman rocked.

Despite my aversion to gore/gross out material, Metalocalypse wasn't that bad either.

CN needs to keep doing shows like that, not to mention finally fund season 3 of Big O.

Godawful horse shit like 6oz. Mouse, Squidbillies, Tom Goes to The Mayor/Time & Eric's Awesome Show, Stroker & Hoop, Perfect Hair, that Renegade Angel garbage, et cetera, all need to die in a fire.

>>19737607

>you guys.

>>19737640
>>animated in the Phillipines.

No wonder it's so bad.

>>19737622
Yeah, like likes of animaniacs and batman TAS.
The japanese are exceptionally skilled artists, go to pixiv and 90% of it is better than common shit found on deviantart.

>>19737607
They used Phillipino transvestites an Bolivian slaves. The studio were Johnny Test is produced is under a Satanic Temple in Saskachewan.

>>19737549
>>19737622

you obviously missed the "savant" part. That means incredibly gifted but it usually comes with being mentally unstable/retarded, which Japan is pretty good at being. Just look at all the creepy shit/moe shit and it kinda reminds you of something a retard would do. Yeah they make great art, but that comes with being a savant. You are amazing at one thing, but batshit retarded.

>>19737607
Fuck. I've seen amazing things done in Flash with a single person.

Venture brothers is also done in flash, you can't tell most of the time.

The only scene i remember noticing (and it took several times) was the scene where Dean reads torrid's note on the mirror.

>>19737549

yeah, Korea is the guy who does really well in school and aces all the assignments the art teacher gives him but does fuck all when it comes to being creative for himself.

>>19737648
>>finally fund season 3 of Big O.

Didn't they end big O?

>>19737681
You can find weird and completely messed up art everywhere, in every country.

>>19737713
You are good at antropomorphizing.

>>19737715

Season 1 was made by Japan, for Japan. But the Japanese didn't care much for it, apparently.

Season 2 was made by Japan for the US because Cartoon Network funded it (must have done well on Toonami or something).

The company making it wanted to do a third season three, which would have made sense of a lot of the stuff that made people go "Wut?", but Cartoon Network decided their stupid shit shows were cheaper.

>>19737713
>Doesn't read Manwha's

>>19737681

I know what that word means. I just felt that was more of an insult like you're representing japan like it's one giant animation company.

>>19737739
Sorry, what is Big O?

>>19737760
Generalizations are dangerous, but I'm going off topic, sorry.

>>19737763

It's basically Japanese batman. You'll really like it.

>>19737781
Really? I must watch this.

>>19737739

Actually, this leads to a creepy episode in season two that is a parody of giant robot anime. There are a group of obviously Japanese men in the episode that are slanty-eyed, photo-taking, bowing, parodies of Jap stereotypes.

It made me squirm in my seat thinking, "Do Japanese people think this is what Americans find amusing, 'stupid stereotypical japs?'"

Yeah, it was odd. Most people who watch anime have at least some respect for the Japanese, so it was kind of bizarre. Unless it was the Japanese poking fun at themselves for an audience they assumed wouldn't get bent out of shape about it, though somehow I doubt it.

>>19737312
Johnny Test = Beavis and Butthead for this generation
Total Drama Island = Good
Total Drama Action = One of the worst shows ever made
Total Drama World Tour = Good
My post = Opinions

>>19737376
FUCK
THAT WOULD BE AWESOME

>implying Metalocalypse is cheap
Even a moron should be able to tell it's EXPENSIVE as hell

>>19737793
>Johnny Test = Beavis and Butthead for this generation

>>19737793
>>Total Drama Island = Good
>>Total Drama World Tour = Good

You should kill yourself.

According to Wikipedia Big O is:
The television series is designed as a tribute to Japanese and Western shows from the 1960s and 1970s. The series is done in the style of film noir and combines the feel of a detective show with the mecha genre of anime. The setpieces are reminiscent of Toho monster movies and the score is an eclectic mix of styles and musical homages.

Sounds promising. First Gurren Lagan, now this, /co/ i amkingme to like anime, you guys do a better job than /a/.

>>19737756

we're talking about animation here brosef, the Koreans don't got much in terms of stuff they have done for themselves. Maybe a movie or two, but that's it.

>>19737760
>>19737760

I'm anthropomorphizing countries based on the animation they produce. So yes, if we were doing that with Japan, he would be a genius retard who makes a masterpiece and then kills a rabbit by petting it too hard.

>>19737763

Roger Smith, a professional negotiator, secretly pilots a giant robot named Big O.

He lives in paradigm city (NYC, actually), the last city on Earth, where no one has any memories beyond 40 years ago. Any tech they have has been salvaged from what was around, or provided by people who discovered/recovered some "memories".

He has a watch grappling hook, a sleek black car with guns/missiles, a butler who drives a motorcycle and fire guns, and a live-in gynoid named R. Dorothy.

It's more like Batman+Evangelion+???=Profit.

brendon small single-handedly ruined cartoon network
if only he hadn't begged for the show to be a half hour

>>19737846

I guess so. You make it sound like it's a bad thing like we have to shoot japan in the back of head so it won't go to jail.

>>19737900
HEY HOISI YOU FAT FUCK GO SUCK A DICK

I used to think that anime was just stupid bimbos with giant sweatdrops on the head, the only animes I had found interesting were Yu Yu Hakusho, Cyborg 009, Excel Saga and Detective Conan. Glad to see there a more good things.

What's so bad about Total Drama anyway?

>>19737919

Hi Cubern.

>>19737945
Why do you always think I'm Cubern? Does he regularly shout profanity at you? I thought he basically just says shut up constantly.

>>19737945
>>19737979
What's going on here?

Flash is a just a tool. The quality of a show produced in flash is based on how much skill, funding, and talent is put into the project.

There are the telltale signs of flash no matter how well its produced but the difference between a good flash show and a bad flash show are gigantic.

>>19737793
>implying beavis and butthead wasn't the 90s in television show form

the great cornholio would like a word with you.

>>19737935
>>Yu Yu Hakusho

I liked the first 10 episodes. I didn't like how it started to go into dragon ball z syndrome.

>>19738017
>Flash is a just a tool.

The Wally Wesy version?

>>19738026
Not G guess again.

>>19737979

Yes he does actually. He's mad.

>>19737936
it's trendy to hate. also alot of edgy teenagers who like bragging about how much more mature they are than you like to hate it to make them seem edgy and well cultured. You know, most of /v/ who came over on the good ship watchmen.

Even though the art is no worse than any tartakovsky production.

>>19738026
Maybe, but in my opinion it was, overall, better.

>>19738068
You're both constantly mad.
Just, always.

i like looking at TDI, but not watching it

>>19738098

>>19738078

so hating things is hipster?

... fuck.

Neither Metalocalypse nor Harvey Birdman has very good animation. They're great shows, don't get me wrong, but the Flash shows.

It shows on Foster's as well, but the character design and overall art direction make up for it. I guess it does a little on Metalocalypse too, kinda.

Honestly, while Flash can be done well, it's so hard to even make it look presentable next to more tradional fare that if your goal is to make it look nice, there's not reason to use Flash. However, like any good business, most studios' goal is to save money, and I understand that.

>>19738115
Yeah he's usually mad, too. Though I haven't talked to him in forever.
Anyways, good talk. Have a good night YOU JUNKYARD DOG FUCKER.

>>19738152

The plot thickens...

>>19738122
no, but using flavor of the month words as insults even though they don't actually convey what you're trying to say is.

It's alright if you haven't heard of it.

Metalocalypse is transitioning from Flash to "full animation" next season, apparently.

>>19738262

It's gotten just heaps better since the first season.

Like when Murderface is chugging the bleach, it's uncanny.

>>19737935


Anime, like any form of media, varies in quality. You have your gold and platinum shows, you have some silver quality shows, and then you have your steaming pile of green shit shows.

>also mfw somebody else likes Detective Conan

All Canadian animation is badly drawn flash cutouts that barely move.

Johnny Test and TDI (both horrendous shows that would never make it to late 90s Cartoon Network) are made by Teletoon.
Flash never replaces hand drawn but it can actually look not bad. Lazy animators.

>>19737837
Just keep in mind, pretty much all of these Canadian cartoons are subsidized by their government. They don't have massive budgets.

Wait, My Life as a Teenage Robot was not made in Flash?

Fosters looked okay because they used cut out characters instead of trying to make it look like a conventional cartoon, there was nothing exceptional about the design but it was a refreshing idea

Metalocalypse just looked bad period, I find nothing attractive about the animation in that show

Harvey Birdman, Attorney at Law is script driven, there is no reason to watch that show if the humor wasn't as good as it was

I love Total Drama, 6teen, AND Stoked.

I don't have a Nielsen box and I don't buy DVDs or products, so me liking those shows does not hurt you or your shows whatsoever.

You know what I find sad? Flash cartoons on Newgrounds made by one guy that have better quality than flash cartoons made by an entire team on TV.

>Metalocalypse
was great when it was a 15 min show about how silly and over the top "metal" is now in days.....but then the "metal" fans did not get the joke and thought BRUTAL LOLSORaNdUmZXD was metal

THEY CANCLED FLAPJACK FOR MORE FUCKING JOHNNY TEST AND MORE TOTAL DRAMA SHIT!

FLAPJACK

FLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPY!

>>19741475
ill do you one better.
It's sad when a internet porn artiest is better then most "professionals"

Fosters was definitely not made in Flash.

>>19741527
Speak of the devil >>19741549


Seriously the Johnny Test flash that Zone did was better animated and more detailed then the actual show.

That's really awful.

>>19741475
while it is sad that flashes made by one person is often better than the shows on Cartoon Network, you need to understand that a team of animator is working on one show. That often require a set of animating rules for the show in order to make sure that the look of the show stays consistent. A single person can do what he/she want on their own animation because they only have to answer to themselves

>>19741602
Also, it takes a single animator a long time to make something ZONE

but a team of drunk Canadians can shit out a whole series of Total Drama in a weekend.

Superjail was made entirely in Flash. Therefore, Flash is awesome depending on who uses it. Now, if they're making a show in After Effects, that's when you start getting into shit territory.

>>19741633
>Superjail was made entirely in Flash.

Lies

>Flash thread
>Hardly any mention of Wakfu

What's wrong with you people? Wakfu (And the Brackenwood series, is you count newgrounds stuff) push Flash's potential to it's limits.

>>19741686
>Flash's potential to it's limits.

actually it's the opposite. Wakfu looks good because it DOESN'T use all the crazy flash tweening shit.

>>19741710
exactly, Wakfu has wonderful illustration, but terrible animation.

Seriously, it's alright to be a fanboy, but don't let it blind you to the truth.

The animation in wakfu can go from sluggy, to outright jerky.

>>19741549
Wrong, Zone, wrong. A simple google search reveals all sources stating it's Flash.

As someone who also works in Flash, I'm disappointed that you of all people can't tell when it's Flash or not. Then again you're nothing but a tracer who gains popularity by profiting on whatever 4chan's boner of the month is.

>McCracken’s next original series, Foster’s Home for Imaginary Friends, bowed in 2004 to record ratings. It was business as usual for the Cartoon Network hit-factory, but behind the scenes, the production pipeline was being re-imagined. Before the overseas studios got into the act, most cartoons were both conceived AND produced in the same building. For financial reasons, this model broke in the 80s, and penny-pinching studios found significant cost-savings overseas. But with the arrival of inexpensive digital 2D software, namely Adobe Flash, this type of production was again possible, and McCracken was quick to take advantage. Along with Flash-wizard Eric Pringle, one of the Animation Directors on Foster’s, he architected a system that allowed for US-based production of half of the episodes (the other half going to Boulder Media in Ireland). The show has rung up years of ratings success and multiple awards, further cementing McCracken’s appreciation for this new powerful digital technology.

>>19741731
Zone Status:
[X] TOLD
[ ] NOT TOLD

>>19741721
no. it's not exaclty that.
Wakfu animation is solid, but not super high. it has a traditional, let's say, "Japanese", 10 fps animation, mostly because it's cheaper, and because Ankama are extreme weaboos. Problem is, people are now really used to tweened shit, so anything that just isn't a translation look "weird" to lots of them.

>>19741721
You got a point, but they have steller animation when they try (See: Boufbowl arc)

Honestly, though, the last few episodes had the best animation of all

DAT HNNNG

>>19741721
>Wakfu has wonderful illustration, but terrible animation.
For a long time, I had only seen screencaps. I thought it was frame-by-frame drawn animation. Then I watched it and noticed how odd it moves. Not saying it's OMG FUCKKEN SUX. Just didn't live up to the hype in my head.

>>19741731
>>19741737
Ungrateful pricks.

Tracking is the fucking strawman of running off drawfags.

Get mad at a drawfag? Say they trace.

Thanks for running off apostle, you stupid fucks.

The fact that zone fucking ANIMATES that shit means zone is doing more than fucking tracing.

And you know what? It's not fucking high art, it's not an original creation, it's a pornographic picture of a fucking cartoon that you mastrubate to. I don't fucking care if it's traced or not, as long as it looks like the original.

Oh man, Zone didn't know it was animated in flash let's fucking call zone a terrible artist because of it.

>>19741755
Some of it is, but they are transitional frames generally.

Episode 1, the miniature villains knocked out of the smoke, for example, and Groulgologran's fire.

>>19741731
>As someone who also works in Flash, I'm disappointed that you of all people can't tell when it's Flash or not.

That's a really pretentious and retarded thing to say, sin
Flash allows you to animate any set of pictures you want, in any format, making the tool recognition completely impossible. you could remake the whole Bamby movie in flash by just screencaping it and putting it back together, and people wouldn't be able to see it's Flash.

>>19741747
Yeah see, that gif, her head just kind of changes shape/position really fast without making a good transition.

It's not terrible, but it's a good example of how flash tweening can be kind of jerky

>>19741759
When you've been working in Flash as long as Zone has you don't have many excuses left for not knowing your material. This is the same thing as a welder not being able to tell the difference between soldering joints.

Pic related, it's you

>>19741778
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

That might actually mean something to me if it were true.

Eh, practically every professional level toon program since the 90s has vector support, layers and all that shit flash has, there's no objective way to tell "that vector based animation was obviously made in program X"

You can say "that looks like a vector tween" and that tells you bugger all about how it was made

ITT we blame the tools for the creator's failures. Not Flash's fault that animators can't even do a fucking motion tween properly.

>>19741792
tweening is the opposite of that. And you can't tween if your model does other things than just translate and change size. this move can't be tweened, it was animated frame by frame traditionally.

>>19741814
Not at all, there's a giant different between ToonBoom and Flash that is noticeable the second you work with either program, and it gets all the more complicated when you realize some things are animated in Maya.

Actually, Flash and ToonBoom work fundamentally diametrically opposed to each other.

>>19741797
>typical whining faggot blah blah blah
quick post a picture and call it me next!

>>19741817
^ truth
the value of something is only worth the sum of its part

>>19741943

>Cartoon Network COULD run another good low budget cartoon if they fucking wanted to, however they choose to ride the dick of Scott Fellows, or vice versa.

Because it's popular and makes money? Why else would they continue to show it?If Scott and his team are content with having the ugliest show on television then that's their business but this is Cartoon Network's wet dream. I'm sure it costs nothing to make but turns a great profit for them.

Anyway, we've got Adventure Time, we've got Mystery Inc., we're getting Regular Show, we're getting Sym-Biotic Titan, we had Flapjack and Chowder which were nice while they lasted. Cartoon Network is always going to have some shit to round out their good shows. Even back in the day you had to deal with stuff like Cow and Chicken, Mike Lu & Ogg, etc.

You now realize all 4 of these were made by one person in flash and kick more ass than any flash show (with the possible exception of Harvey Birdman).

the other Awesome cartoons, Parody Rangers, Brawl Taunts, Nin10Doh, Girl-Chan in Paradise, and a bunch of others (mostly by these same animators) are amazing as well. Just expect most of them to be more comedic. TTA and SMBZ are the only serious ones.

>>19741814
lol it's motherfucking hentai kid. True animator is this man

You can't bend symbols in Flash like they did in Fosters. They started making it way before bones appeared in Flash (which was in CS4). It was probably made in Toon Boom or some other, similar software, but definitely not macromedia/Adobe Flash Professional.

Just because one website says it was made in Flash, doesn't mean it's true.

>>19742484

Unless they did it the hard way and manipulated the shapes by hand, which I highly doubt.

>>19742245

Don't forget Michael Swain, who has some pretty sweet frame-by-frame flash animation.

>>19742410

Argh! It's spastic tifa, my greatest mistake! How did they find out?!

HISSSS

...

You know, I was posing the character around to check for deformations and then I noticed it looked like she was dancing sort of, so I spent like 10 minutes more and did a test render from the viewport with no lighting or anything else. It's not exactly meant to be polished work.

But hey, experts can tell what software an animation was made with from the pixels in their time, and this allows them to make value judgements on the quality of the work. Carry on!

>>19742509
They do some frame-by-frame, but the way the symbols are manipulated looks a lot more flexible than what Flash is capable of. Also, Flash only has the line tool or brush tool. Neither can produce a pencil-style outline like in Fosters. They would have to scan pencil outlines and import each one as a PNG with alpha channel. No point doing all this when other, more advanced vector-based animation software can do it all for free.

>>19742484
Stop being such a newfag, Zone. There have been plugins for Flash since Flash existed. Inverse-kinetics, or "bones", have had a third party add-on for Flash prior to even CS3. If you ever read a book on CS4 they specifically state that the Bone tool comes from the fact those plugins were created and demanded. I bet you don't even have a single plugin installed.

Fuck, do you even know what shape hinting is? Do you even program your own games? What is it exactly that you do in your animations anyway? I'm curious. Do you just trace everything, read the first chapter of Richard William's handbook, and call it a day?

Who's coat tails did you ride to get as "good" in Flash as you are? Frankly I liked you a lot more before you opened your mouth and showed the world today you're not nearly as good in Flash as your sycophants would have people believe.

I think the truth, Zone, is you're just some guy who picked up Flash, traced some models, made some porn for profit, and never really bothered to learn anything or improve.

>>19742895

>>19742895
>never really bothered to learn anything or improve.

not
even
trying

>>19742895
>>19742946
Samefag. Good point but still samefag.

>>19742958
Yes, Zone isn't trying. Thanks for agreeing with me.

I seen kids improve more in 1-2 years on Newgrounds than Zone has in the 5-6 years he's been doing his "thing".