They shouldn't.

Earn your pay with hard work, not a government mandated minimum.

>>459843202 (OP)
We shouldn't

>>459843451
/thread

shouldnt it would raise cost of living

We shouldn't....food prices and everything else would go up with it

It's not like it matters people still get paid below it.

>>459843202 (OP)
minimum wage= guaranteed inflation

you dont fix an economy by dumping more money into it.

Labor is a service like any other. Like any other service, the price should be determined by the buyer(business) and the seller(worker), not the government.

they shouldn't, that would raise my cost of living, i dont give a shit about those people, i earned my spot, they should too.

>>459843738
>>459843769
those things have allready gone up.

if you make min wage and work full time you need govnt assistance to survive. there is no place in america working 40 hours a week at min that you can live. as in pay for food house ect

also this feels like troll thread

>>459843451
at around 3% a year and minimum wages are outdated and set to a specific time
so, the minimum wage is really only reflective of an economy like 8 years ago

>>459844412
Minimum wage jobs aren't meant to provide living wages

SHOULD.

You fat motherfuckers have to pay 2 extra cents for your bean burrito at Taco Bell, but the mexicans that work there can afford more shit, therefore they but more shit, thus increasing the economy.

Lower-middle class people spend more percentage of there money than any other group.

Increase there spending potential, increase the cash flowing around America.

>>459844718
That doesn't change the fact that hard work determines pay. If you don't want to get paid minimum wage, get a better job.

and didn't someone /thread this earlier?

>>459844846
*stimulating the economy
not *increasing

>>459843769
>>459843978

>>459843978
>>459843978

only way to survive in America is to be skilled labor.

>>459843202 (OP)
If we raise min wage it will just make everything else cost more so it would be pointless

>>459844846
also *buy not *but

>>459843998
well yes you would, this is how the economy was fixed after the great depression

we went to war and the governt dumped all the money into the military industrainl complex

i'm not avocating for that, but raising minimum wage will give poor people more buying power, which means they will rely less on food stamps and other govnt programs.

can you cite anytime in history that raising min wage = guaranteed inflation?
also equals and guaranteed is a little overkill. equals allready means guaranteed or else it would be =/=

>>459844846
also *their
not *there

you've gotta imagine the gov could either tax businesses more and send that to the working poor, or raise the minimum wage and send it directly to the working poor...the latter is better because that money goes to labor instead of getting siphoned off by bureaucracy and the remainder going into benefits (then again, its likely the working poor arent the best money managers, maybe the money is better taken by govt and handed out) who cares

>>459845315
You are an idiot. If you like socialism so much, move to Europe.

Because an increased minimum wage means greater spending power which means more money back into the economy instead of hoarded. Raising them minimum wage will hurt small businesses in the short term, but over time they will see their revenues increase as workers will be happier and the entire populace will have more money to spend.

In addition, you are adding more tax revenue which can further fund job and education growth.

The only arguments against raising the min wage are short-sighted and, basically, wrong. Every country in the world with a higher minimum wage than us also has happier and healthier people.

/thread, thanks for playing, kids.

The way i look at it is, if you are going to pass a law that makes managers NOT want to give people enough ours to provide care, then you should make up for having them fuck everyone over by handing out part time positions, and treating employees like they are expendable.

>>459843202 (OP)
Minimum wage needs to continually raise proportional to inflation or else the economy will collapse. The minimum wage has honestly been too low for quite some time in the country. I blame the fractional reserve system. (Seriously, if you don't know what that is, go look it up now. It may as well be counterfeiting.)

That being said, it's not so much RAISING the wage, but making sure it represents the same living wage proportionally over time. If we didn't have inflation, wages could stay the same forever.

>>459844769
but many working single parents and familes depend on them.

shouldnt we mandate that the lowest a employer can pay is at least a livable wage?

also this thread was intial flooded by like minded people, so i suspect trolls

Because it will emancipate the lower class. It will also reinvigorate stagnated corporations as they will be forced to adapt and grow. Quality of labour will also rise, so they shouldn't bitch anyway. These things will boost the economy, especially considering that the lower class will now pay more income tax and be able to afford more consumer products. It will also make social unrest die down, which will lead to less crime.

The only reason not to do it, is corporations that want to stay rich. But corporations that are only sitting on their money are holding the economy hostage. Money needs to be spent for growth to occur. Hence, it's in the best interest of the entire country to raise minimum wage. Even the corporation's. I mean, for fuck's sake, America can't hope to compete with China and India and crap and needs to start acting like a first world country.

>>459845281
everything allready costs more

so it wouldnt be pointless it would be increasing with inflation

>>459846145
Money is a finite resource, which many liberals don't seem to understand. If you force a company to spend more money by paying its employees more, they must then raise their prices in order to keep a stable profit ratio.


So then costs of all items in America go up, making the minimum wage bump worthless.


It's really elementary stuff, here.

>>459845781
Agreed to a degree.
Not to mention that a minimum wage increase always causes a short, but sharp decline in unemployment as usually unmotivated citizens capitalize on the new prospect. Even a small spike like this is enough to help get the economy back on it's feet.

Once enough people are working, thus allowing small businesses to function, more jobs can be created in the long run as a result.

>>459846184
>implying paying minimum wage workers more makes their quality of labour rise.

People are actually this retarded.

>>459846527
This.

>mfw some faggots think prices will go up as minimum wage does and not the other way around.

minimum wage is the universal tax multiplicator. if you really do want to reduce national debt then go ahead and bump the minimum wage. everything is going to rise in price and that will generate a lot more taxes both direct and indirect. it's just a matter of balancing it to match the long term economic goal. it has no consequence on quality of living, personal wealth, etc.

>>459845702
lol ad hominem, that means instead of disproving the argument i put forth, you insulted me to make what i said less reasonable.

if you could maybe show how the economy wasnt fixed after the great depression, maybe i'll reconsider my opinion

>>459846682
So by your logic, a business only operates correctly when the living wage is constantly inconsistent with average cost of products?
Seriously, think about the shit you are saying.
Yes, there will be a TEMPORARY jump in the prices of SOME products; this is to be expected. However, this won't be permanent and increasing minimum wage will ensure that there are MORE workers across the country. More labor equals more production; more production means lower prices.

Seeing the flaw in your logic yet?

>>459846954
I personally would pick up the pace and try harder at my job if managment didnt have to fuck me with min. wage and on top of getting payed shit i can only work 28 hours so they dont have to provide health benefits, if the government wants to cause more problems by enacting bullshit laws like that, then they can at least try and fix part of the issue and at least raise it to 7.75 or 8.

If you don't understand supply and demand curves, and price equilibrium, please gtfo and do not vote.

>>459847791
absolutely. It's the same reason outsourcing occurs.

>>459846145
eh i think regulation or whatever should stablize cost of living rather than increase wages...a huge population of middle earners (lets say 30-50k) are priced out of the cities in which they work, chained to student debt for decades, and barely surviving if they have to buy their own health insurance. mandate more affordable housing, subsidize education and healthcare..instead of a slightly bigger axe for picking away at a mountain, make the mountain smaller

>>459847280
Thank you for understanding basic economics.
I don't understand all these faggots who think that prices will immediately rise to match the new wages thus cancelling them out.
At first, yes, it may cause some problems, but once the economy starts to grow as a result, we will be able to create more jobs, fund necessities like education, and hopefully get at least SOME of the nation's debt under control.

>>459847791
>However, this won't be permanent and increasing minimum wage will ensure that there are MORE workers across the country.

No. No it won't. Higher minimum wage regularly reduces the number of working people, as it become more expensive to employ them.

only people born into money think hard work is all there is to getting a better job, luck and connections are about 30%

qualifications are 50%, but they are hard to get if you start with nothing, because surviving on part time minimum wages while you study is next to impossible, not to mention the debt.

subsidizing education more could substitute for the raising of the minimum wage, but doing neither basically locks people in to a cycle of poverty.

>>459846682
maybe they could pay there ceo's less?

cosco does that and there all doing fine. head ceo doesnt make more than 200 grand and all employees get 13.50 an hour, estimated, with health care

wallmart pays minimum and all of there employees, that are full time , are on government assistance.

i think the cosco model is the right one

but your original argument is sound, prices would go up, if they stuck by the wallmart model, but havnt they allready? how much is a gallon of gas? its 4 dollars by me. in 2000 it was 1.60. thats alot more people have to spend to get to work for the same amount earned at work the min should go up with them, thats elementary

>>459846145
Oh holy hell, you cannot be that stupid! You're on /b/ after all. Please learn to think for yourself.

>>459848846
Ok, so after we put more laws in place about minimum wage, we should put MORE laws in place about how much founders of companies can make.

BOY OH BOY I SURE DO LOVE GUBMENT CONTROL

>>459848525
I dont think thats too much the issue here. Its too many people and too few jobs. I mean its actually kind of difficult to find internships because a certain company of a certain size only needs so many people, even working at a super low wage/non existant wage. After a certain point theres minimal effect on their bottom line or even a negative effect. They just dont need more people.

>>459848525
So the masses of unemployed people looking for work don't count as more workers?
"more expensive to employ them"
So suddenly instead of cutting costs elsewhere businesses all over the country will just stop hiring workers? Yeah.. that makes sense.. who needs labor right?

>implying a buck extra for minimum wage will be that detrimental

>implying thousands of businesses don't already hire at well above minimum wage for basic jobs.

>>459847435
The socialist policies extended the depression that was created by market manipulation in the first place. Compare the depression during the early 1920s, which only lasted a few months because the market was allowed to correct itself, to the great depression, which lasted much longer with a lot more pain to the people of the country. I could go into this a lot deeper, but it would be easier for me to tell you to just read more economic textbooks.

>>459849347
BAM

>>459844157

except approximatly 60-40% of economically active world population is employed in artifical jobs that do not necessarily need to exist and provide no benefit except the artificial which may be declard not needed. the fact is simple. overproduction of new labour. the supply of labour is close to infinite and growing with every second with the world population while everything else becomes scarcer. labour is the only economical perpetum mobile.

>>459849267
"founders"

He said CEOs. If you don't know the difference, maybe a discussion about economics isn't the correct thread for you.

While I honestly only ever hear a cry for a rise in minimum wage from scholars who rely on morality play and assholes who scoffed at college during their whole high school career and thus only work at shit jobs, I think it should go up a bit to reflect higher standards of living.

>>459848846
yup. but eliminating excessive executive compensation would likely direct that money into dividends or r&d, might not help the bottom tier of the company

>>459848352
regulate what? how would regulating stabilize the cost of living? your opening statement only had confusion veiled as intelligence." i think regulation or whatever"

the cost of milk in america is so low, canadians cross the border to buy milk.


we're not talking about middle earners, we're talking about minimum wage earners. when you come to class prepare

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Listen here you retarded faggots, and for the record Levi, this probably should have gone in /pol/, we should raise the minimum wage.

The thing is, minimum wage is outdated and not set to accurately reflect the economy's current status. We should change minimum wage to make it a dynamic rate where it changes with the fluctuations of the cyclical economy (whether it be up or down, although normally up). Yes, people should not aspire to earn minimum wage but this is irrelevant and should not be a determining factor. Not to mention the people who work minimum wage jobs on the side whilst in school, working another job, or who are simply still in high school. Minimum wage should move with inflation naturally instead of us having to go back and change it every 10 years or so (a 10 year lag is an awful lot). Is there any real reason it should not be changed?

Personally I think minimum wage should be enough to pay for minimum living conditions (renting a room, transportation, basic necessities and all that) in the city in question provided the person is working full time. I mean what good is minimum wage if youre working full time and youre literally unable to afford rent nearby / transportation costs.

Get rid of the niggery payroll taxes, faggoty worker's comp bullshit, cum guzzling nigger faggot whore bitch liberal fuck nanny state rules that make it financially devistating to companies to hire more than a few people, and you could raise minimum wage to $20 an hour, easily.

There are mountains of fucking bullshit costs businesses have to pay per employee. They are punished for hiring more people. It's fucking retarded. Our government should be trying to come up with incentives for MORE employees, but instead the incentives are to make as few employees as possible work as hard as possible, oh but god forbid they work full time, then the government really fucks the company.

>>459849267
i never said laws, i said i think cosco's model is correct

read before you write

If minimum wage was increased then incentives for businesses to hire new people in the work world will decrease along with the number of employee slots the have

it shouldnt
raising min wage will only raise prices and make it harder for new small businesses to open up

it s all good for people that have no skills and earn min wage but in the long run money loses value and people that are over 9 dollars (typically those with some sort of skill) get nothing and have to pay higher prices

my solution would be to reduce cost of living instead. to try to reduce the cost of gas, production, etc.

what obama is doing is making it harder to make business in america forcing even more companies to go overseas to a country where they wont have to put up with his bullshit to earn money

>>459849347

Professional historian here.

It is a historical fact in US history that government intervention in economics has a positive impact on the economy. The Great Depression was caused by a complete lack of government oversight. The social programs helped provide tons of jobs. The government still doles out millions of jobs today - both in menial labor and high tech industries.

Whenever the US government laid off, the economy slacked. When the US government got involved, it boomed. When tax rates on the richest in the country was nearly 90%, the economy boomed. When Clinton raised taxes on the wealthy by 3%, the economy boomed.

I'm not saying insular, communistic/socialistic economies work. They don't. But to say that government involvement hurts jobs is simply nonsense. This only came about with Reagan's baseless rhetoric. Remember the huge economic depression in '82? Remember the deficit that Clinton had to fix? We're still paying for deficits from Bush.

In the economic and historical field, no one questioned the utility of government in economics until Reagan.

>>459844991
That's the problem. Sometimes you need the experience and can't just "get a better job" right away.

Erm... don't? This is fairly simple. Companies can't afford to hire people to work for minimum wage. Get rid of minimum wage and employment would soar.

>>459850462
Additionally, if a company provides some sort of living or food assistance or whatever, I think it should be able to slightly lower the amount they pay even below minimum wage. For example, if youre working at a grocery store, and they give you a good discount on buying food there, then your minimum cost of living goes down. Ergo, they should be able to pay you less as long as working there full time would still be able to let you make ends meet.

We shoudn't. You should get paid based on the quality of work, not because the government forces employers to pay a certain amount.

I don't know enough about economies and shit to know the names of different ones...I'm undereducated in this regard and I should fix that but oh well.... but the one where the government takes everything and equals it out among citizens...minimum wage takes us closer and closer to that.

>>459847435
>>459849180
see my above post, well atleast for ad hominem

i think people should be payed a wage that they can live at. it's a pretty simple and universal concept

>>459850692
>what obama is doing is making it harder to make business in america forcing even more companies to go overseas to a country where they wont have to put up with his bullshit to earn money

Or he's making more people work for the public sector/gubmint.

>>459843202 (OP)

Australian master race reporting in.

Our minimum wage is like twice that of murrica's. (Ofcourse currencies are different, but AUD is more valuable than USD anyway)

Enjoy your trailer park and multi-trillion dollar national debt.

>>459851090
you don't know what communism is called? you're fucking retarded.

>>459850845
>professional historian here
ok chief

Alright well there are some things to consider here that I don't think you are taking into account. Historically speaking, government intervention had not always had a positive impact on the economy. I personally am actually a Keynesian, but keep in mind the problem with some government intervention (ie: early 2000's government insured loans cause banks to lend to people who really shouldn't be lent money since they knew they would get a return no matter what.

>>459848425

that really depends on how much do you want to rise the minimum. if you are matching the inflation adjustment then nothing will change except some income taxes which will generate just enough to support the people who were exploited at the inflation reduced minimum. if you push far beyond the inflation adjustment then you get the bump up multiplication factor.

>>459849535
sir please hold your booms and read below
>>459850845

>>459849857
Honestly, the college system is a bit of a sham atm. Originally, colleges were a lot more... exclusive? Not sure if that's the word I really want to use, but it will do. Back then, a college degree would assure you higher pay and a better chance of getting the job. Nowadays, it's a prerequisite for many jobs, even ones that honestly shouldn't require it. We've turned it from higher learning into another place you have to funnel money into before you can actually make money.

Don't get me wrong, everyone should have the right to go to college. I honestly want to see a future where that happens, but we need to seriously work on making it more affordable before we start expecting it from everyone.

>>459851515
I'm high as fuck. And on a good day I'm bad at this. So yeah.

Because I'm fucking broke.

>>459851090
this

its called a "command economy" , and it's for niggers.

>>459846527
If we raise the price of everything and in a capitalist government that will decrease jobs and profit margins for the big companies who want more money. not only with it make it harder for more small business owners also with the compounding of the Obama Care, it will doom the little man. and our country was founded on competition for who had the better product not who could by out someone with a better product to be bought out and never let it hit the market.

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>>459844991
>implying better jobs exist

>>459846954
Go to a whole foods, then tell me that the customer service there isn't better than a fucking Path Mark. You know why? The lowest wage they pay in the northeast is $10 with A LOT of room for growth. Everyone is happier with their jobs because they make more money.

>>459850979
nothing like working in china america

5 cents an hour all day everyday! and kids can work too

thats literaly what you just suggested, and i used literaly correctly. brush up on history from the 1900's

That's retarded people don't even follow minimum wage anyways. More people get paid in the U.S. under minimum wage than at minimum wage.

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>>459845702

>>459850845
Professional economist here.

Its a economic fact that government intervention has a negative impact on the economy. The great depression was caused by government created easy money policy which roots itself to the boom-bust cycle today. The social programs helped take money from less productive avenues and put it into politically attractive pockets. The government still doles out millions of stolen dollars today.

The rest or your history is incorrect, and attempting to explain the intricacies of economic policy to someone who expresses such a whitewashed tripe as history would seem a waste of time.

True, communist/socialist economies dont work, its too bad we live in one. To say that government involvement in wage decisions creates a surplus in labor is simple economics.

In the economics and historical fields, there have literally been thousands of well spoken people to speak out before Reagan.

http://youtu.be/AQQon4tjlSA

>>459852083
Most people are "working" illegally. Get rid of it and companies can afford to hire people. Employment will rocket.

If only one of the super rich companies would just break off and make their own damned countries. That would be interesting to see. I mean a manmade island cant be THAT difficult to build when youve got the income of a small nation.

>>459850267
THANK YOU!
I don't know why people don't get the concept of inflation. They just bitch about giving liberals more money, not understanding that it's not more if it's worth the same, or say stupid shit like price increases will basically cancel out the raise in minimum wage.
I'm glad to see someone with a solid grasp of reality.

>>459851657

Exactly, 50 years ago one could go in to an apprenticeship and make a perfectly respectable living working as a tradesman, and this was the norm, college was for the rich, and the very intelligent.

Everyone should have the right to higher learning, but every job which does not set you below the poverty line should not require it.

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lololol

>implying raising minimum wage gives minimum wage makers more purchasing power
>implying prices won't just increase to compensate

it's a play for fake economic growth...that's the game these days. Inflation as growth, it's a big con. Deficit spending is the same thing...pump more money into the economy and it "grows" in dollar terms without any actual increase in productivity.

Of course if you're a government employee, contractor, banker or other insider you can get a piece of this monetary expansion and enrich yourself at public expense.

Consider that Bush/Obama have presided over the creation of $50,000 for every American alive. Think about that...if you had $50,000 in savings at the beginning of GWB's first term it's worth HALF of that in purchasing power today.

we're getting screwed

>>459851979
and that s why employment has moved off shore
to this shit tier countries where the rules dont apply and profits can be maximized

harder to make business = less jobs = less taxes = more people on food stamps with no government revenue

the price of everything will rise when minimum wage rises

it always happens

you just get more dollars that are worth less in the end

>>459851891
no ones is raising the price of everything, just minimum wage to keep up with inflation

if we didnt do that, minimum wage could be at two dollars right now and no one working it could afford 4 dollar gas.

also do you really care that much about profit margins for big companys? if apple lost 1 percent would you cry?

as for small buisness yes in the short term it would hurt, but the long term it would help alot!

heres a excellent post on the sub>>459847280
ject

>>459843202 (OP)
I would have let GM fail and let some small company make it's up rising from someones garage. I mean Saturn did good for a while

>>459850126
i didn't think "or whatever" provided a veil of intelligence - more like a candid image of laziness.

Anyway, what I mean (and this applies to minimum wage and middle-income earners, even up to the upper-middle class) is that in urban centers, where more of the population lives and works, rent is too damn high. So people have to live further away and then absorb the cost of commuting in. i would make public university free and provide universal healthcare to start

>>459852640
>>but every job which does not set you below the poverty line should not require it.

Welcome to 2013. We don't need skilled craftsmen, we have fucking robots with lasers.

>>459850554
I want to dismiss this initially, not just because you say nigger or faggot every other word, but because once again I'm seeing anything resembling "entitlement" being used as an excuse to bash liberals. However, my interest is piqued. If you can intelligently tell me what bullshit costs prevent companies from hiring more people, I will gladly listen.

I don't actively affiliate myself with either party or wing for that matter, but I definitely lean to the left on most matters. Consider this your chance to convert a liberal.

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So many bad arguments ITT.

1. Raising minimum wage does not mean a company will hire more. In fact, it would likely lead to the opposite. Government cannot mandate that businesses hire.

2. Minimum wage was established to be just as it sounds, a MINIMUM! The president gave an example of a family of 4 living on $7.50 an hour being unable to pay for rent, food, etc. However that does not address the fact that if you have 2 kids and earn minimum wage, you are a fucking failure!

3. The government does not owe you shit! You are not entitled to a certain wage. You get paid what your worth. If you make the minimum wage and you aren't a student, you have no skills and are not worth anything. Sad but true.

4. Educate yourself and learn a skill (or set of skills) that make you valuable. If the best you can do is wait tables and wash dishes. Your not worth much to anyone

>>459853427
I wish we needed robots and lasers harder. Then I could get a job since Im graduating as a mech soon.

>>459852993
so your solution. is to be like china.

i say don't buy from china, pay the extra 20 dollars to get it from america and hey now you can afford it because minimum wage went up!

>>459850462
i agree with the theory of this, but the price of urban housing is so imbalanced. non-profits provide low-income housing and there's public housing, but if you're between poor or upper-middle class it's a challenge to live in a city

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omg most people in here are retarted. If you raise the minimum wage it only makes those that are working minimum wage jobs more income.

This increases your taxes.
this increases what you will pay for things because the company is not going to eat those costs, as well as reductions in the work force.
This also lowers the value of money for those NOT making minimum wage, you will not make more, ask yourself if this worked last time they recently raised. it.

In the long run you earn less, your raises will be lower, your money will be worth less, not worthless, and you will pay more in taxes.

We pulled out of the recession after WWII because we were the only first world nation with standing factories at 100%, lots of people we dead and thus taken out of the work force.

You can never get money from the rich by taxing o asking for fairness, the world is not fair, they will take their money and move, which is happening in France right now sine they increased the taxes on the rich to 75%. A poor man never gave me a job. If you want to be a libtard move to a tree hugging granola eating country that has universal health care.

Knowing all this makes me not care because I feel if you are stupid as hell, which most of the world is, then you get what you deserve.

No bail outs, companies need to fail, like the forest, failure paves the way for new upstarts. In the end of bail outs and freebies we have the same retards running the companies with no consequences for their actions. What ever happened to working hard and putting in effort. Maybe you kids are too young to remember seeing the bread lines in the old soviet union. That's honestly what you fuckers who brought this curse on us deserve, You deserve every stupid fucking idea you desire.

some one fetch me my fiddle. . .

>>459853783
Do you have any idea how difficult it is to buy shit made in the US? I cant even find any. I was pretty surprised when i found out my new hatchet was made in the US a few days ago.

>>459852605
honestly this is what i want to and with computers payroll can do this easily

so can congress

So, should minimum wage be 25 bucks?

>>459853603
Payroll taxes, benefits, etc. There are TONS of employee related costs that aren't related to training an employee.

Employees cost A LOT more than just their salary.

>>459843202 (OP)
it's a wage redistribution tactic where the ultra poors, retail/fast food drones make more money. However, the cost of most goods and services that use low-paid drones go up, unemployment also goes up.

Seeing as how most of us have shitty low-paid service jobs (don't knock me for it, I'm working on a doctorate while working a shit job), I'm for us having more purchasing power and middle and upper class having to pay a couple more bucks at fast food and retail.....

With inflation wages must go up. Wages have been stagnant for about two decades now in America and cost of living has doubled/tripled..... this isn't goddamn china where we want the dirt cheapest goods at the cost of paying grunt labor slave wages, a man working 40 hours a week deserves a small apartment and basic utilities....

>>459850554
worker's comp is definitely not bullshit. it's not even a liberal thing, its just like decency

>>459853427

by that reasoning in the next 50 years all jobs will be replaced by robots and nobody will have work.

utopia! progress! right?

i know there is no law or precedent for this but i honestly think "the founding fathers" should have written about a mans right to meaningful work, if the majority of people believed that this was a human right, which it should be, then perhaps greed wouldn't dominate the debate.

>>459853783
not like china
but raising minimum wage is not a solution
if we want to solve unemployment we need to LURE companies to do business here
to bring back home all that business that our companies are doing off shore
to enable small businesses to flourish on our own land
to reduce the cost of living and doing businesses in USA (Companies do this all the time by putting money on research to reduce costs)

instead we argue minimum wage and the cost of living goes up because a dumb moron wants to earn a few political points with a stupid "solution" that completely disregards any understanding of economics

minimum wage, unions & welfare are the cancer of america.

>>459843202 (OP)
>Why in your opinion should america raise the minimum wage?

When is your homework assignment due?

>>459853751
It'll happen if America ever rejoins the manufacturing scene. The reason we're so far behind other countries isn't just because American labor is expensive (and sub-par when compared to say Germany), it's because we have no high tech facilities.

Flipping burgers is not a fucking career. It's for high school kids to get work experience.

>2013
>not believing the EITC > minimum wage
>2013
>shiggums diggums

>>459854728
Also earned income credit.

How is shitting out kids something you earned?

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>>459854125

THIS

ALL OF YOU HIPPIE YIPPIES READ THIS

ALL OF IT!!!

>>459853385
well my university for 4 years has costed about 60k, for a state run institution. is the government prepared to spend 60k on 30 million younge people from age 18-23. census buerro for cite

also raising the minimum wage to fluctuate with inflation is easier because we allready have those systems in place.

i'm not arguing against the universals, but min wage increase is what is needed now

>>459844991
You're very out of touch in economics like most republicans. You guys just declare a solution but have no intentions of finding one. It's not as easy as "working hard". THe minimum wage rate in America is amongst hte lowest in the west. In Canada it's $10.25, in Australia believe it or not it's upwards of $20, but from the sounds of it, everything else is mindbogglingly more expensive there. The rate has to match the cost of living, otherwise you could have another civil war on your hands.

>>459853783
yeah don't buy from China. Not that it matters because they will rule the world economically in about 20 years, but onthe principle that their corrupt system isn't worth my money.

>>459852808
I agree that we are getting screwed, but minimum wage SHOULD be raised. If the government stopped all the fractional reserve lending bullshit, which is basically printing money, maybe we could actually experience real growth.

>>459854728
Yes we should get rid of these things and be like China.

Forget the minimum wage, as Nancy Pelosi said unemployment is the fastest way to stimulate the economy and create jobs

http://youtu.be/oE-z38pXUAo

>>459855161
Somehow, I can't really take the prospect of a fast food workers' revolt seriously.

>>459854630
You have the right to work. Can't find a job? Compete with other business owners. Do it better and do it cheaper.

You sound like the type of person who expect to have your life dictated to you by the government, by your boss, and just do what you're told so you can go watch prime time TV when you get home and then play video games.

Life is hard. Man up. Get useful skills. There was a need for IT people so I got a Comp Sci degree and became a programmer.

>>459854236
then it sounds like you found some

>>459844846
the lower to middle class spend more money, not because of some mystical reason. They just suck at making money and personal finance decisions. that is why they are poor. they spend their money on wants and not needs and other stupid bullshit. They are poor becuase of thier inate ability to over charge for things and not save the money to decide if it is a good idea. They spend it like some retards I know on NASCAR or gas sucking vehicles when they should be spending it on things like oh I don't know food.

They make other bad choices like spend thier money on fast food which is far more expensive than real healthy food. for example Crab $4.99 a pound, 2 pounds is about 11-12 bucks with tax, instead they spend 8 on a McDonald or wendies meal.

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Yes

Up to Australia's level

If you can't afford to pay, don't hire.

>>459852640
oh man do you know how hard it can be to get an apprenticeship for a skilled trade? i wish i became a plumber or electrician instead of getting sucked into that college nonsense

If we kicked out all the illegal immigrants there wouldn't be so much downward pressure on wages

>>459855161
it s funny you mention cost of living
something that will raise no matter what when you raise minimum wage

>>459843202 (OP)
>this is a serious topic
>posts on /b/

Buncha crabs in here. Drones whining that because they get scraps others should get scraps too.

You guys ever hear of Henry Ford? Payed his workers well, so they'd be able to afford cars, and their spending would echo through society so that society would be bettered and could afford his cars.

The exact opposite to this mentality that we must squeeze all workers until they're treading water financially, supporting a tiny few who have it better than the pack. Peasants and Lords, and take a hard look at yourself and realize you're not a Lord, but that's okay to you because you got your STEM degree and you're not at the very bottom of the rung like those dirty people who deserve to be because they didn't get their STEM degree like you did.

We're building a fucking society here gentlemen, and what you'd rather it be: one of rats clawing at each other to survive or where the common man's financial security echoes through society to benefit us all?

they shouldn't. it makes people lazy. they should get more side jobs and actually work for their money and not sit behind a counter serving burgers.

>>459854982
THIS! 1000000X THIS!

And it's not even encouraging the right class of people to breed. It encourages poor people and to an extent lower middle class people to breed.

If they want to encourage baby making offer tax breaks to high income earners or tie it to things only well off people buy/do. We need successful children of successful families, not Walmart door greeters.

>>459843451
Problem is that the minimum wage has became stagnant with the constant rise of cost of living.

I bet you're fucking rich are you?

>>459855272
Let the lazy and stupid die.

no fucks were given.

>>459855259

>stopped all the fractional reserve lending

i'd like to see a different method of monetary expansion as well, but what will raising the minimum wage do for minimum wage worker?

It certainly screws over the current 9-12 dollar per hour earners but it increases prices for everybody. I just don't see who really benefits here.

>>459855723
Too many low skill zombies means there is downward pressure on wages. The Black Death ended feudalism because tenants had the power to work land with better relationships. Overpopulation is the problem. Force illegal immigrants out and wages will go up.

>>459856293

It's wealth redistribution that hits the middle lower to lower middle classes the hardest.

>>459854125
sometimes, for SOME companies, it is beneficial to have a bailout. The bailout of US-made General Motors was a good move. It kept tens of thousands employed in a time when we needed jobs most. GM is doing well now, they HAVE changed management.

You speak on too many generalizations that it's difficult to tell if you're a full Republicunt or just didn't want to write an essay on this topic. If it's the latter, then I'll understand.

>>459855118
yeah im not arguing against the min wage increase, do it to it

university wouldn't cost that much if it was free. the cost rose so wildly because student loans are safe for lenders and universities want more money. universal higher-ed is doable.

>>459855894
If you are busting your ass for 60+ hours a week you shouldn't be in poverty.

>>459853783
Don't buy from china are you fucking stupid? Show me your cell phone. . .show me your radio or the other things in your house. We buy from china becuase the stupid fucking unions demand $30 an hour for some fucker to push a broom and other stupid ideas. Companies take thier factories overseas becuase the labor is cheeper. again free market at work.

This is starting to work against them because the chinks are counter fitting everything we send there to make. The counterfeits, made by slave labor, are cheaper than the real thing.

Here's a brilliant idea, stop buying from a company that sends things overseas and making things you can live with out, like say your phone, your computer, and stop trying to tax the companies into moving to business friendly nations. . .My god the hipsterness in this thread is sicking.

>>459855487

i don't expect or request to be dictated to by any government, i just believe that the government is there to serve the people, and therefore should provide a framework within which people can prosper no matter their circumstances.

you are wrong about every single thing you stated about me by the way, i work in IT also, i make 5 times the minimum wage in Australia, but i come from a poor family, a family which clawed itself from the jaws of poverty through decades of hard work.

my problem is that they had to do that at all, they are hard working intelligent people, and should have had more opportunities provided by the government who instead wastes money daily on assisting those who need no assistance, and ignoring the poor.

>animus, lpterso

>>459854236
actually last year my new years resolution was to only buy american products. consequently i purchased very infrequently, but managed to almost stay true to my goal. and its expensive as dick

>>459856243
you dont have to be rich to earn over 9 bucks
it s not that fucking hard

Make minimum wage $14/hr.

Get rid of ALL social programs.

Watch poor people who work at Walmart cry about not being able to afford anything at Walmart.


Only in America do people bitch and moan and whine about being poor and demand free housing, free food, free soda, and free snack food to go with their iPhones, cable TV, and big flat screen TVs.

I live/work in the nigger side of town. Yeah yeah, I didn't know anything about the city when I moved here. But what I have noticed is that these people always have money for weed, beer, and dumb shit. They bitch about being poor, but they're always blowing money and they have no credit cards. Life isn't really that bad, they're just mad that their uneducated nigger asses can't buy a brand new Escalade.

They have more than enough. They have plenty to enjoy. They just bitch about not having luxury items. Oh no, what a travesty, you don't get to drive the latest and greatest car or eat at $100/plate restaurants.

Sure some families truly are starving, but I'd bet that in many cases the parents smoke/drink/drug a bunch of money away that could be used for food.

>>459852494
a guy named William Shakesman once said " Brevity is the soul of wit". Seems to apply here..

you should keep it simple when making points about economics on /b/ cause the level of liberal faggotism is high, use a lot of examples.

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So that faggots would stop bothering people for tips and resorting to their sub-human tactics of "spitting on peoples food".

>>459854286
lol no

That would doom us all.

>>459857730
i like this, mainly because the nigger part is completely true

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We shouldn't. Fuck people who weren't smart enough to get wealthy. Let them starve.

>>459856680

the bailout on GM was a bad idea, I held stock in the company under the idea that yeah it was too big to let fail. Stupid move let me clue you in on how it went down on paper. They made a company named Motor liquidations, you spend a few thousand bucks and you cna create any company you want. It bought out GM, The board votes for this since they control the majority of shares, Unfortunatly for the holders thier stock became Motor liquidation shares, The name is as bad as it sounds. One day later the stock is frozen. You are trapped and cannot get out. New GM is formed by the same board, they then ask MTLQ if they want to sell thier Income generating assets o the new company. Since the same Board controls the Motor liquidations, they say sure. The old GM, now MLQ files full bankrupcy and the new shares sell for $35 a share. All debt is gone and absolved as the company a paper company, holding bad liabilities folds. New GM walks away withthe same board of directors, and same management that failed to run the company properly the first time. HOW THE FUCK IS THAT A GOOD IDEA? instead of a new company taking their place. Down with the failure and open the way to new. Its painful at first but better for the evolution of business.

I have no alegence to any party, I am telling you of facts that occur. The problem with you being a liberal retard is you cannot grasp the facts that the sky is blue, instead you think it maybe pink because it feels pink to you. That is why things need to fail, so the stupid die off.

>>459857103
There is a framework. It's called student loans. Everyone can go to college. Anyone who says they can't is either ignorant of the programs out there or is too retarded to get into college.

Why shouldn't people work hard? I came from a poor single parent household. My mom worked in a factory, 3rd shift, and I barely saw her. My childhood sucked gigantic fucking cocks.

Yet I succeeded in life. Because I don't suck at life. Why should this be handed to people? Why do people deserve what I have because they came out of a vagina and learned to wipe their own ass?

If you want success you earn it. Nobody is entitled to it. The U.S. government has made it possible for anyone to get an education. In one job I worked alongside a black man who climbed his way out of the ghetto. That's fucking hardcore to go from ghetto to middle class. I only had to work my way up from white trash.

The poor don't need money, they need motivation.

>>459858340

>white race in danger of extinction

Yeah, no.

>>459857014

you should try something different. if you don't want to bust your ass and live in poverty do something about it to change that, I don't know buck up, put on your big boy pants and start a business of your own. Beaners do it all the time.

>>459843451
LETS DO IT TO PISS OF THE REPUBLICANS AND MOST POSTERS ITT

....it is a pissing contest, and libs have the flow goin' on....face the music !

>>459858616
It so is. I didn't used to be racist. I grew up in a small white people only town but nobody was racist. I always believed black people were just like us and that all the nigger talk was just dumb ass rednecks.

Then I moved into a big city on the wrong side of town. I fucking hate niggers so much now. They're so fucking dumb. Every morning on the way to work I have to dodge niggers in all black standing in the middle of the road at 5:00 in the morning. WHAT IN THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE.

Honestly, I can't find one good thing about them. They talk like retards. They act like retards. They only fucking things they know how to do is make babies (that they'll never see), get drunk, and smoke weed.

>>459857730
lol yeah. i work for a non-profit that provides free construction to non-profit buildings that provide low-income housing in the nyc ghettos - and literally every single building reeks of weed, the sidewalks are littered with hennessey and grey goose bottles, and all day people are walking around instead of being at work (or volunteering or training or doing something to improve their prospects) i mean i bet its the same in a trailer park but still

>>459859152
Where are you going with this?