bamp

0/10

>>355278288
Explain to me

>>355278288

>implying this a troll attempt

>>355276944
None of those countries you listed are communist nor socialist. Just because someone says the are, doesn't mean it's true.

Some are fascist and some are a parliamentary republic or democracy.

>>355278848
Nope, no trolling. I just don't get it.

Most of my friends vote for social democrats, most in my city even. If I ask why they say because they care for other people and I'm just egoistic. When I confront them with the mass-abuse of social regulations they say I overreact.
When I say its unjust to take money from working people to give to junkies and people who can work but refuse to do so, they say that's not how it works.

Your fortune: Good news will come to you by mail

cus people are stupid.
Sure the masses have a generally good common sense on small things that affect their life, like how fast to drive, democracy is good in case of small laws that affect personal life, because it stop crazy ideological fucknuts to do what they want.
But people don't know shit about european treaties and these matters should be debated between educated and not left in the hands of the people.

The leftist shit understood that media is the best way to inoculate their poison to the masses, as well as education

I'm less concerned by the fact that the senat has gone socialist than the fact that kids these days do not learn about French history, since the scum has managed to take Louis XIV and Charlemange out of the school programs, (more or less)
Read the tribune of bernard lugnan, its accurate.

We are fucked.

>>355278946
So you're saying that the foundation of communism, the USSR + east Europe, are not communist?

Yes, Carl Marx wrote a nice book envisioning a nice utopia with equality and fairness, but that's not the way it works. People cannot be forced to adapt to such a state except by force and suppression. And humans, like all animals, are opportunists. If they can get something without working for it, they will. Thus communisms destroys a country by changing its inhabitants from struggling, hard working fair people to parasites and thieves.

Tu peux remettre mon drapeau dans le bon sens et enlever ta merde de dessus ?

>implying those elections are legit
>implying most citizens in a dictatorship aren't a bunch of cowards

troll harder roody-poo, communism turned Russia from a farmer's country into a international megafactory feared by everyone.

Don't think for a second that retards like Stalin have something to do with communism.

Of course socialism is bad. Roads build themselves these days, and there's tons of people that will volunteer to be police officers and firefighters. Oh, and government employees that regulate the laws can make money by

can someone explain why op us the french flag because since the WWII france had a socialist governement only between 81 and 95 and it wasn't so bad

People don't vote communists, and from what I can see, many Socialisms in the world today are actually exceeding all expectations (Brazil, China)

>2011
>not serving Satan

http://www.joyofsatan.org/
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/serpentis666/Outsiders.html BUT I IS AN ATHIEST!?!?!?
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/serpentis666/Tree.html SATAN CREATED HUMANITY THROUGH GENETIC ENGINEERING
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/serpentis666/Incubus.html HAVE SEX WITH DEMONS

Don't miss out on this shit nigga, you'll be mad if you do. ANCIENT ALIENS NIGGER.

>>355280287
>angelfire

nostalgia'd.

>>355279555
that sounds familiar.
Our national history has for the better part been removed from history classes as well, because leftist parties thought that people should not be proud of their country since that would fuel nationalistic sentiment or because immigrants would be offended by it.

The only thing we are taught in class is over and over again how horrible WOII was, how horrible nazis, facists, and nationalists are, and how many countrymen turned to the nazi invaders to aid their cause.
I hardly know any of our national heroes, let alone the foundation of my country. What I know, I taught myself.

>>355276944
What it is OP is that none of those countries are true communists or socialists, they have deep nationalism in their ideologies, for instance leninism is the same as National communism. True communism without a dictator at the top, with it being anarcho-communism is an ideal world for true socialist/communism believers, since everyone is rewarded equally.

>>355280280
Yea, really good country China is.
Especially the way they treat the farmers (those who they vowed to protect) and prisoners.

>>355280155
Implying that they had stable economy and willing workers.
Pretty mad.

I don't see a problem with it. All of these systems theoretically do the same thing. Only difference is some give the illusion of freedom.

>>355279925
The USSR was as much a communist country as was France at the time of its existence. Primarily the USSR was a fascist state with certain communist principles. The closest they've been to communism was during the Bolshevik revolution.

True capitalism embraces our faults as a mean to gain. I agree that communism and socialism aren't practical solutions to a very real problem but neither is capitalism.

>>355280155
Travel to eastern Europe sometime and ask the inhabitants what they think of Communism.

Ask them how their rich and wealthy age-old countries were reduced to beggar-states within 40 years.

tl;dr Nicaragua did better under communism than it did under the fascist dictatorship we had put in place....The same for North Vietnam...At least as far as the majority of it's ppl are concerned....Without a diversified economy based on diversified natural resources, most small countries only taste of "democracy" comes in the form of corrupt puppet governments placed by the US for the benefit of the corporate special interests. These governments do little for the people and in comparison, the people are better off with communism
Just saying.

>>355278946

Socialism and Communism are economic ideologies for a state

Democracy and Fascism are political ideologies.

two different things

During the "communist" Romanian era, it was illegal to don't have a job. Communism doesn't mean you work for junkies. Capitalism DOES mean you work for greed egoist arrogant bankers who own you as a slave. If you don't understand an ideology, don't ask the average people, less /b/, you fucking fucktard. Ask the scoialsts/communist parties of your country. Also, socialism and communism is NOT the same. It's like republicans and libertarians. Communist here btw. You may ask me whatever you want and I'll anwer the best I can.

>>355280506
That would only work if everyone, no exception, did their best to do as good as they could.

And you know damn well as I that people won't do this.
Some will, but most will just reap the harvest of someone else's labour.

vietnam = will be developed nation in 2020
china = is a beast and alot better of then taiwan ( not commie chinese)
cuba is still standing even though they cant even import or export food
venezuela =you fucking kidding me right . best place in central america
north korea =well that guy had a few screws loose

communist here, because money should go to the worker, not to the guy who owns the factory (because his father gave him)

>>355281238
All four are political ideologies.
Two have developed economic rationales.

>>355279925

Karl Marx thought the perfect communist french utopy was bullshit. Learn about him before posting your uneducated shit here, son. Really, people thinking an idea is an utopy just because it requires effort, freedom and equality annoys the fuck out of me.

>>355281424
You mean sort of the way the top 1% of wealthy Americans don't do shit and reap the harvest of the labor or the rest of the country?

First of all OP, communism ain't existed ever on the human history, it's an ideal state that comes after socialism expands on the whole world. You'll want to inform yourself a bit better about the difference between socialism and communism.
And what you said isn't true. Cuba was nothing but a big Casino before socialism. And socialism isn't made to be aplied on a single country for a large lapse of time but, as said, it must be concieved as a previous step to communism. So, as that doesn't happen, you can't judge socialism for the way it works on an small country that can't produce anything but sugar and tobacco.
Also, capitalism doesn't work pretty good on south america, africa, asia, and ain't doing fine this days on europe and the USA neither, so it's not fair to say that it works better than a system we don't know much, when we can easily see that it's doing wrong.
I'm sorry for my english, I'm not native speaker, I hope you can understand.

>>355281424

You just think this way because you have this capitalist notion of human relationship.

>>355281721
>central america
>notsureiftrollingorjuststupid

>>355281107
You are comparing bad with worse, that's not a fair comparison.

Perhaps the US have gone to far with their capitalism, but at least in the US people get to keep what they worked for. And they are still the leading country in the world, because they all work hard and believe in their country.

I would not object to a minimum-welfare level for the unemployed, but that would not exceed minor (but sufficient) shelter and enough food not to starve. Those who are really incapable of work can be sustained by the state in a decent well-fair level, but what I hate are those people who CAN work, but just WONT.
Junkies for example
Or 'artists' shitting in a can and calling it art
Or people who keep living from welfare because thats economically more profitable than having a low-wage job.

Socialism,communism,capitalism...Just a different names for monetary slavery achieved by corporatocracy.

>>355281760
You're a fucking idiot. Please justify your position (factory owner took out a loan to own factory and has trouble feeding his 5 children because gvmt regulation costs him too much)

You stupid dumb fuck op! reading you is like reading a 10 year old boy who just discovered politics and the easiest way to deal with people. You know that the same type of thinking led to nazism (national socialismus yes yes). Communism and socialism are the best political view that exists.
When you speak of "the mass-abuse of social regulations" you obivously don't know a thing about it. There are really not so many and it is used in order to level the social diferrencies in the country (everyone should get the same chance in life). Of course there are people cheating, but what do you prefer: a few people that receive 200 € pro month that they shouldn't, or letting huge companies making profits of billions of euros without paying a single euro in the country where they obtain the money, because the president is an important friend?
The argument of the right is alays the same:
If people pay more taxes, they will leave france. But the thing is, they already did. And we don't want those kind of people anyway in France.
Another argument is: there are too many people who benefits social aids. But this is the point of our society: living all togehter, without always jealousy. There are no mass-abuse, it's a total lie.
Do you think it is better to be an asshole in life, passing queue, talking to people like they are shit, and so feeling superior?

Capitalism means inequality and greed, which is why so many economies are in ruins BUT!

What is more important is that if people are too poor, they will get more kids: Search for "TED Hans Rosling" For more information.

So there is only so much world, ergo we need a stable equal world to sustain the world.

Which is why we need socialism.

>>355282182
Guy shouldn't have had five children then.

>>355282182
the factory owner should get a job then

>>355281329
I was in Romania some months back.
I talked to many elderly people there. They all recited that communism destroyed their economy and induced major corruption in the government and economic sector.

Yes, they all had jobs. But they hardly got paid, and what they got was not enough to buy normal groceries. As a result of the destroyed economy, most people in Romania are without a job or get a shitty wage.

Communism makes everyone equal because it makes everyone poor.

>>355282334
You're right, everyone knows it's the worker's job to overpopulate. (ludicrous tax credit for knocking up wimmens)

>>355282182
You apparently live in a world without heritage and without social classes. Send me a postcard my friend!

>>355281721
Venezuela? best country?
Kidding right?

Besides, it greatly depends on whether you are on the receiving side or on the paying side. I think many Venezuelan people will disagree with you.

>implying ussr failed (2º world power)
>implying north korea is socialist and isnt autochratic
>implying china is not capitalist
>implying cubafags are poor and they dont have free food and free medicine etc
>implying im not tired of refute this candy ass

>>355281849
What annoys the fuck out of me is that people still have their head up their arses and can't understand that people are neither equal nor honest and never will be, except when they have a gun pointed at them, which is exactly what happens in communist states.

>>355282521
This is what happens when you offer gypsies jobs.

I mean communism is nothing more than a people-pleasing pile of bullshit, which is why A PURELY COMMUNIST NATION HAS NEVER SURVIVED THE TEST OF TIME. But Communism = Labor + No desire for advancement = Gypsy nightmare

>>355282059
>>Perhaps the US have gone to far with their capitalism, but at least in the US people get to keep what they worked for. And they are still the leading country in the world, because they all work hard and believe in their country.

Oh you must not have gotten the memo in the cave you've been living in...Lots of folk that have worked all their lives to buy homes recently lost them to the banks that trashed the economy in the first place, then took the peoples homes that they wrote bad mortgages to and made it a hat trick by getting the government to bail them out to the tune of $700 billion with no over sight.

And of course there is the health insurance that many people paid into for most of their productive portions of their lives that were dropped because of having a cold when they were 12....

Yeppereee...we sure do get to keep what we work for around here....Freaking noooooob!

Because those countries for the most part didn't actually come out worse at the end of the Communism.
/thread

>>355281936
Before the revolution in Cuba, most people were poor and some were rich.

Nowadays, everyone is poor. That's not what I call improvement.
Moreover, the black market is swelling and corruption is widespread.

>>355282521what you say makes no sense. The government of romania maybe called himself communism, but it obviously wasn't.
You people should once stop listening to other people and beginn to think! THINK! read marx, lear what is marxismus.

>>355282686
>2011
>Think anyone that's worked themselves into superior positions should be thrown to the working class dogs.
>ISHYGDDS

like a things in life you need a balance.

left=socialism=for the less fortunate, the people, hippies and utopians.
right=liberals, for fat cats, people with some money and people who have businesses.
center: mostly christian value parties, mostly tend to give more importance to leftist theories. Can also be conservative with a tendency for rightwing theories.
Socialism is often diabolised, but it is also what gave power to the subjects, you, in a society.
Too many liberals=all the power to corporations
Too many socialists=decline of society/economy

The US is far more socialist than most Americans care to admit. We need to stop acting like police forces, fire fighters, medicaid, and welfare AREN'T inherently socialist ideas.

>>355283215
Well man, if we are gonna justifie our points with lies this is going to be hard.
In Cuba, every person has a job, free and excelent healtcare, there's not analphabetism...

socialism is bad. I mean, look at France. it sux

>>355282287
Probably just a troll, or very stupid but anyway:
Keep this opinion up. I bet if communism ever takes over you'll be glad to convince everyone of the glory of communism at gun point and shoot them if they disagree.
You wouldn't want those people in your country anyway, right?

> A PURELY COMMUNIST NATION HAS NEVER SURVIVED THE TEST OF TIME

neither has a purely capitalist nation

>>355282302
The countries that comes closest to communism or socialism are all the poorest in the world.
Even China. The only reason China has such a high GDP is because it has 1.3 billion inhabitants.
Look up the average wage in China.

>>355283012

So? Violence exists kid. When you grow up and get out of your high-class neighborhood you'll realize people IS violent and a man must grow up the balls to stand and fight for what is right and just. Do you think talking and being polite, educated while corporations are exploiting half world is the right way to a better world? Fuck no kid. The answer is in the PEOPLE. Because most people on this planet IS poor and dreams of a better, equal world. Get some fucking guns to the people and go to the governments, go to the corporations, go to those wealthy pigs who lifted their economic empire thanks to people's sweat and blood and point a fucking gun to their forehead and say: Give back the money to the people or you'll give back their blood. THAT is the FUCKING answer. No more exploiting, no more bottom to top society, no more classes, no more unfair, unjust government. Just the people, his work and a better world in which we all advance TOGETHER, not invidually. But you're in part right. There's people that won't do it intentionally, that's why we need to point a gun to their head and re-educate into a better world. The next generation won't understand how could we even live in a capitalist world.

>>355283555
>>355283555

implying France is a socialist country

for you information, france is held by the right since 1945, with an exeption from 81 to 95.

>>355282287
> Do you think it is better to be an asshole in life, passing queue, talking to people like they are shit, and so feeling superior?

No duh, it's called being a champion. What, just because you're jealous that I make more money than you means you and I are the same? Fuck off. I only respect people who work hard for what they do. Why should I respect a person who's a lazy fuck?

>>355283668
you begin to understand mate :). it wasn't a troll, nor stupid.
Of course those are strong actions. But those peoples are the true ennemies of the society. lol
but i wouldn't have to shoot them. If they think that way it's just because they are sick stupid greedy people. So it cannot be complicated to convince them with the good arguments.

OP is a racist french fag who doesnt understand socialism. The french are lazy assholes who cant do shit, and always blame others/each other for fails. Socialism is working great in scandinavian countries coz theyre not candy-asss. Also who cares to learn bout Charlemagne, he was also a candy-ass. Allez vs faire enculer, tous!
>mfw all french ppl r candy-asss.

>>355283056
Yes, that's true and thats a bad part of capitalism when running free.
But how about the USSR? With all its labour and equality it still went broke.
Capitalism in its current form is perhaps not the best system, but neither is given money from working people to people who do not WANT to work. Or paying people who studied hard their entire life and have stressful jobs the same wage as people who rather chased girls, have 10 kids, and work shitty jobs because they quit their education.

>>355284216
no longer

read the link in the first post

>>355284002
First off, you really need to work on your grammar. Second that's complete shit. Power to the people give me a break. No one is equal (on a financial level). A better and equal world, advance TOGETHER? NOT INDIVIDUALLY? That's a complete joke, you need to learn a thing or two about evolution and natural selection, the weak die and the strong survive.

>>355284434
you still haven't convinced me.

Tell me: I have a university degree and work a high end but stressful job, but it pays well.
Convince me why I should continue this job or why I even should've went to university if I can also be a social gardener or busdriver for the same wage?
With those jobs I can work close to home, flirt with the girls during work, have long lunch breaks, no deadlines, no businesstrips. aahh... I almost already start relaxing at the thought of it.

>>355284389
That's not the point of people making more money than others. In a true working communism party, there would also be differencies. But you don't know that of course.
You are a perfect example of the problem: you think that other people should deserve respect from you. but why?
There are hundreds of way of being happy. If working and being richer as other people is your way, maybe it's not it for all other people. Why should they absolutely do as the capitalism say to them? it's also a prison, a lack of liberty. because capitalism equals trying to become richer as other people.
the system should permit to all those people to live together, with their own terms.

>>355284569
Nope, not french. Sorry to disappoint you dude.
France is just the latest European country that re-embraces socialism after we finally started to get rid of it ten years ago.
Previous week, Denmark also mainly voted leftish parties

Adam Smith wrote a nice book envisioning a nice utopia with equality and fairness, but that's not the way it works. People cannot be forced to adapt to such a state except by force and suppression. And humans, like all animals, are opportunists. If they can get something without working for it, they will. Thus capitalism destroys a country by changing its inhabitants from struggling, hard working fair people to parasites and thieves.

>>355284434
The only reason you think rich people are bad is because you're too much of a wimp to be successful like them.

>>355282521
>implying Communism somehow made people poor after it fell (when it not longer existed), not Capitalistic privatizing which was an extremely greedy/corrupt practice?

It's personal preference. In an ideal Socialist state, the citizen would have much more involvement with the government. Corruption exists in EVERY government. Typically with Socialist it's white collar stuff, like stealing office staplers compared to... you know, having your corporation dump billions of dollars into a presidential candidate so he'll bail your company out and make sure you can fully utilize your slave work force. NB4 Soviet Union. For fuck's sake, at least they had healthcare and decent education. Russia now is only climbing out of the Capitalistic Privatizing bullshit by instituting social programs.

>>355284955

That's the most common bullshit between you, anti-leftists. "DURRR IT'S IN OUR NATURE TO BE LIEK THIS, GREED 'N STUFFF HURRR"

And? We've cloned a fucking lamb, nature no longer guides us. It's in our nature slavery, rape, murdery, eat as much as we can to survive winter but we've advances as a society. Goddammit, we're no longer common animals. So if it's in our nature we shouldn't bother in changing it. Is that your point? Well, why are we monogamous? It's in our nature to spread our seed as many times as possible. Why use condoms? It's in out nature to copulate just for the sake of reproducing. Why go to the doctor? It's in our nature to die when we're not strong enough to survive a simple flu.

You're a fucking moron.

ITT: people who have no clue what socialism or communism means.

calling France or Greece "socialist" just shows how stupid you are.

>>355284002
2/10

Anyway, rest assured that if communism ever dawns in my country I will buy a gun all right.
Was your father a soldier in the army of the Red Khmer by any chance?

>>355283905

So? Poor and happy?

Of course there is a low for what is acceptable. Do all the human rights, and I believe you are there. Only Scandinavian countries does that. Oh and Denmark - Where I live have the highest taxes and work environment. So happy people.

Communism is a little too hardcore and of a different age. Everything with balance and with that said, there is also a limit for how much money you should have. Just as with freedom. Total freedom is chaos, because it means that you can kill who ever you like. Same goes for total freedom for capital. There has to be a balance.

>>355285507
Spot on!
Only poor people and unknowning youngsters/students are communists.

>>355285169
In a working communism society, there would also be higher salaries, just not as big as with capitalism. So you'd still could be unhappy at thousand km of you home :). But more people could do easily just more what they want to.
For example i have a phd: i would do it anyway because it's what i like, even if i wouldn't make so much money as now.

>>355285372
And why should I care about the people.

> There are hundreds a "ways" to be happy

Yeah, it's called being different, creative, and you have to have that thing inside you that makes you strive for greatness, some people have it, some people don't, that's just how the world works.

>>355285689
>implying Greece doesn't have a majority of socialists in their government

>>355285507
FYI i am without any doubt richer as you now. But i used to be poor. Thanks to this fucking sytem that i hate. That is the difference.

>>355285663
Yes we still are and never will cease to be.
Are you not sexually active? Are you not angry sometimes? Or happy? Or sad? Or idealistic?
It's all hormons mate.

And it only takes a short period of lawlessness to bring the wild animal back up in us.
Watched the news lately, with the London riots and shit?
Read 'Lord of the Flies'; it gives a fine example of human animalistic behaviour.

Because socialism works pretty damn well in some countries (see Northern Europe), whereas right wing screws everything it touches. Rich people don't learn to stop when they need to.

>>355285663
And you're a moron thinking that the human populace is full of "badass" people who want to help each other out for the sake of humanity. The world isn't full of hippies

>>355285875
It's not up to you to care about those people it's the society purpose, idiot! otheerwise we could also all leave like in Brazil, where there are no middle class, just poor people living without roof and rich people falways flying with helicopters.

"that's just how the world works"
correction: that's just how capitalism works, or your world, at least.
THINK. stop listening radio and watching TV. Read books.

>>355285806
I prefer to decide myself how I spend my money, instead of governments deciding for me.
Statistics in my country btw indicate that approximately 20-40% of all wellfare cheques go to undeserving people.

And only the fact that being unemployed in my country is more profitable than having a low-wage job says enough if you ask me.
And if 'poor' is defined as being able to go on holiday only once per year, have only 1 computer with DSL connection, only 1 colour telly, and a house with only one room per inhabitant, than these standard are completely off-chart.

Let me guess: pro-socialism/communism people in here also believe that the world will not get overpopulated and that world-hunger can be solved? Am I right?

The vast majority of people who have wealth and power, were BORN into wealth and power. They did not achieve it by their own hands.

True, there are some real "rags to riches" stories of poor people who became rich, but they are few and far between. They are a statistical minority. The vast majority of people in this world will live and die in the same economic class that they were born into. How is that fair?

Meanwhile, we live under a system where store owners take old bread off their shelves and throw it away because nobody bought it, while simultaneously there are millions of people starving. And they say capitalism is a system that "works?" Is this the feature of a working system? Who is it working for, exactly?

>>355285663
> We've cloned a fucking lamb
No ,scientists clone a fucking lamb

> Why use condoms
The body is a weird thing, sure you're using a condom when having sex, but your body THINKS it's reproducing, so the natural hormones are still there.

>>355285862
In the USSR and east Germany, many scientists and high-educated citizens fled to capitalist countries because they thought the reward system in the USSR/DDR/Poland etc. unfair and unjust.

>>355286523
and you're a self centered delusional asshole if you think everynewt gingrich in this world only cares about themselves

compassion and empathy are natural emotions just like greed is

if greed alone was human nature, then why are there so many charities and people who volunteer to help the poor and the sick?

You're trying to project your own attitudes onto all of humanity. Just because you are a greedy person who feels no empathy for the suffering of other people, doesn't mean everynewt gingrich is like you.

>>355286119
than you're a hypocrite.

I'm not wealthy enough to be able to afford being socialist.
I see it with the socialist politicians in this country as well. THey all live in grand mansions with extremely high incomes, and in the mean time they're telling us that the wealth is unfairly distributed. And people actually buy that.

>>355286842

And how is it fair if you take from the people who are competent against their will and give it to those who aren't?

America was never about economic equality. It was about protecting the wealth of the .0001% from the masses who would vote in a heartbeat to take their wealth away.

>>355286842
It works for the people who actually work. The rest of them ... does anyone *owe* them free food/housing.healthcare etc?

>>355286842
Not in my country.
In my country, if you work hard you're punished by paying more than 50% taxes.
Then, when you die, you pay up to 90% taxes over your possessions for transferring it to your relatives.

Really fair, isn't it?

>>355286678
> stop listening radio and watching TV. Read books
> implying I still watch T.V when 99% is complete shit.
> Implying I don't read books like "Nietzsche" and "William Blake"
> And by reading books, do you mean reading the books YOU WANT ME TO READ. What so I shouldn't listen to the big bad capitalists and I should listen to the so called "Lesser Evil" You sir are stupid, how do you know what's evil in this world, think about it. People who see things that are evil are the things THEY THEMSELVES DO NOT LIKE. They think everyone is like them. They don't care nor do they know anything about the work, you're no better than Capitalist, you don't care about the people, YOU ONLY CARE ABOUT YOURSELF. Just because everyone in communism is somehow equal, you think everyone is going to be nice to you? Bull Shit. You just want everyone in the world to be just like you.

stop arguing over ruskies and weeabos you candy-asss and come to chaturbate, free live cams, no email required or any of that credit card bs, all you need is a username and you're done. plenty of girls and guys for you homosexes. and yes there are no viruses or spam (no email required so how can they spam you)

chaturbate.com/affiliates/in/g4pe/F4nFs/?track=default

no reason not to join really...

people who own businesses already pay like 50% taxes.... tax havens = biggest problem, cuz big firms don't pay taxes.

>ctrl:f: sweden
>0 matches

I'm from there and I can confirm that social democracy works fucking excellent. Fuck you.

>>355286834

All I am saying is, that there has to be a limit. When you earn, let's say. Twice the amount of the average in your country?

So yea, there are a lot of issues with help, but I am of the firm believe that people want to be challenged, so if you ease there experience and challenge them, then everyone is all for it.

I have no idea what others believe, but I believe that if we don't fix our population soon, it will end in a global war destroying the world. And I say that with a calm face.

There is only so material, so what is needed is a new objective. Because there are not enough bullets to kill all the poor and because of that, the rich will have to face themselves or kill everyone. Which is why something else is needed. And if I feel fine, then why the fuck not care for others?

For me it isn't about other people, but about me, my family and the future. As long as I don't have an answer to everything, the future will continue to be important to me.

45% of Americans are brainwashed that welfareism is the only way to be moral and prosperous
45% of Americans are brainwashed that socialism is evil
10% of Americans are scared shitless of everyone else

The only countries where communistic agendas are doing well, are the ones where they sacrifice their people to accomplish it.

Multiple people have cited that China is a great example of its success. The people of china live in squaller and die working for shit pay to simply keep China alive.
If this is what "success" is, I do not want any part of it.
Also, I love the people who say they want communism so that there is a fair distribution of wealth.
So instead of in a capitalistic society where roughly 20% of the top hold 80% of the wealth, and there is room to advance. ..
They want communism where 0.01% hold 99% of the countries wealth, make all the decisions for them, with no chance at advancement.

Sounds reasonable.

>>355287394
>take from the people who are competent

what makes them competent? most of them were born into wealth and have never once known what it was like to live paycheck to paycheck

how are they any more competent then the working class? does being born into wealth automatically make you a productive competent member of society? who told you this bullshit?

>>355286476

1. Europe is not socialist.
2. America is more socialist than Europe.
3. Europe has far lower corporate tax rates than America.
4. America pays the lion's share of the defense budget in your countries.
5. EU is gonna crash.

>>355287282
ahah now you're beginning to think as a communist, it's good :).
i will tell you why i am not an hypocrite: in order to be able to change something in this society, you have to get some influence. And one the option is first getting rich, with this system.
But if there are more taxes to pay, i will happily pay them. You know?
I won't give my money to associations because it is hyprocrite: paying thing that the state is supposed to do with my money, but doing it myself to feel better: that's not the good way.
oh and also i'm against inheritence. If it was up to me i would give nothing to my kids of my money, and just give it back to the society.

>>355287471
>It works for the people who actually work

bullshit. there are people who are working their asses off at two jobs and still can't make ends meet. working hard will not make you rich and successful under capitalism, that is the biggest farce spread by the bourgeois since the beginning of the system itself

you are a cog in a machine designed to make somebody else money, they could give two shits about you as long as you work hard for them and don't ask questions

pic related

>>355287258
> compassion and empathy are natural emotions just like greed is

Then there is no reason to say greed is a bad thing, now is there? Think of it all as yin and yang a balance of the so called "Good and Evil" we need both. We shouldn't eliminate one.

OP here,

Thanks for the discussion people. I'm still not convinced and rather clueless, but I have to go to bed. Tomorrow I have to go to work again to work half the time for those who can sleep out and walk the dog afterwards.

In my opinion, the government should only arrange minimalistic sustenance for unemployed people and people should get to decide themselves how they spend their money, even if they are unable to do so wisely. Actions and consequences so to speak.

People who feel they should help their fellowman should raise funds individually and distribute them via a funds.
If insufficient people donate, than either the socialistic concept is dead or too many people are poor.
Being poor should create a challenge to get yourself up on top again. Not a reason to sit back, relax, and receive funds from those that do work.

Anyway, have a great evening/day/morning/night.

>>355288150

Who told you the bull shit that most wealthy people were born into wealth? Most wealthy people got to where they are on their own.

Recently, PNC Wealth Management conducted a survey of people with more than $500,000 free to invest as they like, a fair definition of “wealthy,” and possibly “millionaire” once you begin including home equity and other assets. Only 6% of those surveyed earned their money from inheritance alone. 69% earned their wealth mostly by trading time and effort for money, or by “working.”

http://www.consumerismcommentary.com/most-wealthy-individuals-earned-not-inherited-their-wealth/

I am so unsympathetic for the "poor."
I have advanced through every single tax bracket.

Those who say "its impossible to advance because the rich stop us" are truly pathetic to me.
That is the exact attitude which harms this country, blaming others who have done better than you, saying "it isn't fair."

It was difficult and tiring, but not impossible.
And you know what? I dont want to give one bit back to those people, because it has become acceptable in this country to fondle and enable those who complain and dont strive to succeed.

What a waste.

>>355288283
You care more about a bunch of regular jack offs who have done nothing for you over your own children? You're fucked up

>>355276944

>china worse off than before communisum

By what measure

lrn2 second largest econamy and growing

Common pro-capitalist: Work hard and it works.

Common pro-socialist response: No, there are plenty of people who work hard and it doesnt work.

Truth: Capitalism works for those who work hard AND SMART. The savvy are the ones who succeed.

People are not that smart, and complain when they have made bad choices about their commitment to their education, what careers to pursue.

I do not want to hear a liberal studies major bitch about how they have a "degree" and cant find a job (or have a lowpaying job). Its pure stupidity.
Yeah, you worked hard at a degree (sort of), but you were stupid enough to go after a degree with no payback.

>>355288004

>ctrl:f: sweden
>1 match

Your post and just what I was thinking

Im so glad I live in Sweden :) Best place on earth

>>355288150
That's simply not true. Plenty of people make their own way through prudent money management and small business creation.

Obama would call them rich, but they really are not; most funnel their business profits through their personal accounts (for fucked up tax reason). It looks like they make a couple million a year, but it goes out to pay salaries and expenses (the best kind of distribution of wealth).
We just see less and less of this risk-taking every day, which is why small-businesses are suffering.

Big business, however, is booming. They love (and lobby for) government regulation.

Socialism is great for lazy people. However if you work smart and hard and attempt to keep what you earn, youre fucked.

>>355287678
no not my books.

just read every type of books you can from whoever you want.
Just to get you smarter.

you cannot came to one conclusion with one author and one point of view. it musts convince you. Maybe you'll think otherwose than me. But the first important thing is to avoid ignorance.

i you read nietzsche, you would really not speak that way. or maybe you didn't understand.

and oviously you didn't read the other commentaries, because i said how differencies between people would be better handled with communism.

>>355288758
see>>355288140

If you are willing to sacrifice people in order to say your country is "growing," you have serious priority issues.
The funny thing is, there are plenty of procommunism supporters who cite china as a success, and turn around and say capitalism is the against the people.
The irony is overwhelming

>>355289283
And if you read books you really need to work on your grammar.

Communism is the only real way. It just hasn't been done by the right people.

>>355288633
if there was no inheritance from noone, all the kids would be treated the same way, with as much money. So i care more for my children than for two jerk offs. you're mixing things. Time for you to go to bed.

>>355289177

Exactly. Most pro-capitalists are middle class people. Those billionaires like Warren Buffet and Bill Gates are Corporatists, NOT Capitalists. They hate Capitalism, as it stifles their wealth and monopolies. They LOVE higher income taxes, as they pay none themselves. Most small business owners file taxes as individuals, meaning they pay income taxes while billionaires get away with paying 10% in capital gains taxes.
This is why so many billionaires are Liberals and support Liberal candidates.

Im from Norway and we have socialism

Let me tell you a bit about how it works with socialism in sweden and norway, We pay very high taxes compared to other countries, but those money are spent on things like wellfare, and the general public, we also have free healthcare, and if something happens to us we know the goverment will help out, so socialism is not so bad, its better than corporalism like you have in the usa.

>>355288531
>Most wealthy people got to where they are on their own.

That's utter bullshit. The majority of the wealthy were born into wealth. The greatest predictor of what economic class you will be apart of is the class you were born into. Most children born into poor families will grow up to be poor themselves. Most rich kids will grow up to be rich themselves. Economic mobility is possible, but it is greatly exaggerated by the bourgeois to continue to justify the privileged position they hold in capitalism.

>Children from low-income families have only a 1 percent chance of reaching the top 5 percent of the income distribution, versus children of the rich who have about a 22 percent chance.
http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2006/04/b1579981.html

>>355290089

You didn't prove anything with your stats. Actually, your stats proved MY point, not yours.

My point was that most wealthy people got there on their own, NOT if wealthy people had a better chance of staying wealthy than poor people.

Of course wealthy kids have a better chance of staying wealthy. It could be due to many factors including inheritance and being on average smarter than poorer kids.

Regardless, most wealthy people got there on their own. Ok? Don't be jealous.

>>355289491
well sorry i'm not english.
you finally took the easiest argument: when we cannot answer to something, we say it's because of the grammar.
Thanks! i won again :)
can you speak as well french, german and spanish as this? because i do. (this kind of proud is still compatible with communism :) )

The fact the a small minority of the working class can, against all odds, succeed and become bourgeois themselves does not justify capitalism as a system.

Did you know that under slavery, it was possible for a small minority of slaves to become free? Does this fact that a small minority were able to become free, and even slave owners themselves, justify slavery? Does that make slavery a good system? No, it fucking doesn't.

And for that same reason, a few members of the working class becoming capitalists themselves, while the rest of the working class continues to work harder and longer for lower and lower pay, doesn't make capitalism a good system either.

>>355290089

So for every 100 rich kids, only 22 stay rich... So that means for every 100 rich person, 78 weren't born rich...
You proved that other guy right and yourself wrong.

>>355290773

Again, America was NOT about prosperity for all. It was about rights, including the ability to keep what you earn. This has nothing to do with economic equality and everything to do with rights.
Don't like what our Founding Fathers intended? Move to Europe.

>>355290089
We have mis-matching definitions of "wealthy".

Again, most of those top 5% 'people' are business accounts. What you are really saying here is that children raised in poor households are less likely to start and own a business. That's an arguable point. It's well known that the wealthy are more likely to provide their children with business / money management advice.

I would like to see facts in terms of salary, rather than yearly net-income. Plenty of people live on modest salaries and save their money. They then invest it into things that make them more money (buy / start a company). They then live off the money from dividends, while also feeding the families of their employees.

Unfortunately, plenty more people would rather buy luxuries first. This is why you can see some doctors with money problems and some grunt workers live very securely.

>>355290060
OP here again, one last time (my last post before this was my farewell post)
The way it goes in Scandinavia at least goes somewhat fair. In my country, we pay very high taxes as well (up to 56%), but we still have to pay for healthcare (up to €200 p/month with own risk of €700 or more), car taxes, parking taxes, fuel taxes, money for going to school, money for schoolbooks, pollution taxes, etc etc.

THis is because all of the regular tax money goes to the so-called poor, who arent really that poor or incapable of work afterall.
Our current government is uncovering these lying parasites, but the more they do so, the lower their ranking gets in the public opinion. That's what bothering me. That parasitism is awarded while working gets you nowhere.

>>355290774
learn to read kid,

rich =/= top 5%

the top 5% are the ultra rich

the study says that those born into wealth have a 22% chance of moving up the economic ladder and into the top 5%

>>355276944
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081016132725AAoGdNo