bump with wheat thins

The Answer is No. Centralized development is the Only way development has ever taken place. All Free Market Development theories are speculative... sorta like Communism.

bump for real answers

How about a more anon-centered question:

Under Ron Paul, would age of consent laws be abolished?

>>348129078
so Paul is too conservative economically in your opinion?

wheat thin bump

i guess anon isn't smart today

bump with troll physics

>>348128731

Go do real research. Asking people on here is waste of time and energy, that is, unless your trolling.

>>348130020
people like to voice their opinions either way here

it's a quick way to see a real *conversation*

I hope it comes down to Paul vs. Obama. At which point I would literally flip a coin in the voting booth.
Obama is right about economics, but he's too much of a pussy to bitchslap obstructionist morons. He's wrong about civil liberties, and the wars.
Paul is right about civil liberties, and ending the fucking wars. Wrong about economics.
Hard to pick.

>> How can he possibly be sure that a completely free market will solve our problems?

It won't. Every republican who has tried it has bankrupted our country and a Dem has to come in an fix it.

What is a completely free market?

>>348129178
THIS

>>348130290
>Obama
>right about economy

I've never read anything this stupid before in my entire life.

>>348129178
>>348129178
>>348129178
>>348129178

haha yes somebody please answer this

>>348130424

Under RP it would be a states rights question so some special state could lower the age of consent to 14 YO if it so chose so.

>>348130310
1/10

For making me laugh.

>>348130585
What the fuck's the difference then? So now the state govt controls our lives instead of the federal government. La de fucking da

>>348130513
Increasing government spending creates jobs and raises gdp. Taxing the rich (rather than the poor and middle class) to pay for government programs is common sense.

>>348130310
Explain yourself.

>>348130719

You could move to a state that fits your interests such as LV which has gambling and prostitution like a boss.

>>348130719
Believe it or not commie, you have more control over your state legislation. Well not you because your underageb& and all, but you get my point.

>>348130290
>obama right about the economy
...
>remembering Geithner
> "We don’t have the ability (because of the overhang in housing and the problems in the financial sector) to artificially engineer a stronger recovery."

there it is, right there, saying Keynesian failed as will QEinfinity.

>>348130974

/b/ knows about QE? Must be a zerohedger...

>>348130585
pretty sure age of consent is already a state issue

>>348128731
Communism?? really, Communism is 100% Centralized.

the free market made the west what it is, before america was colonized europe was fruitful because of all the countries in an economic battle. Unlike china a large Centralized system, do you not know why the us has states with its own laws

>>348130756
Right because it's working so well right now.

More spending hasn't led to ANY jobs other than the public sector gains (not good) and more taxing only leads to even more dependency on taxes which only leads to even more taxation.

It's a never ending cycle of spend more money, tax for more money until you reach full on socialism and eventually communism/anarchy.

fuck you OP I know, you're just a troll but you made me RAAAAAGE... the solution are simple... destroy the federal bank, print the money yourself (Gouvernement, not the bank). Drop the inflation, less money in your pocket but you would be able to buy a lot more thing with it. With that you will be able to buy more from the other country at lower price because you're money will be strong again, but for good reason. No more dept.

>>348130756
Yeah that's worked out real well hasn't it.

Oh WAIT IT HASN'T. EVER.

OK, serious question:

Don't Paul's beliefs put a lot of faith in people being fundamentally good? (Like hospitals will help you even if you can't pay, that type of stuff)

I've found humans to be quite the opposite...

Free enterprise is nothing more than a good idea. Just like comunism, great ideas that are easily exploitable by the wealthy. America cannot move from a mixed-market system because we've never had anything different since the 30's. But modernizing the regulations will help solve the issue.

>>348130756

Increased government spending is hiding the depression v2. We will have to pay for it eventually.

>>348131222
>>348131222
>>348131222

!!!!!!!

>>348131429
THIS

>>348131369

This is backed by dozens of thousands of years of history.

>>348131429
interesting...

>>348131585

/b/tards get yourself educated:

zerohedge.com

>>348131429
It's more of a everyone act nice together or a lot of people are going to be fucked up by each other. Which is actual democracy. It's "play nice or your going to kill yourselves".

>Has a completely unregulated, free market economy ever been attempted/successful?

Yes. America had something close to a free market during the time when it went from being a group of colonies to the most prosperous and wealthy country the world has ever known. Completely surpassing all the colonial empires of which it used to be a part. It has now become more like an empire and now it is facing the same fate as the empires which came before it.

>How can he possibly be sure that a completely free market will solve our problems?

He isn't and it won't. He just knows that the government has caused most of the problems. And so asking them to solve them will just make things worse.

He knows that the time is gone where people looked to their family/community and most importantly THEMSELVES to solve their problems. Now people look to the government to solve all the problems that they created in the first place. He's trying to turn this around.

He's trying to bring what used to make america great back again before it's tool late. (it's already too late but he's trying anyway just for the lulz)

THIS: http://www.mediaite.com/tv/jon-stewart-scolds-media-for-ignoring-rep-ron-paul-i-mean-fck-that-guy-ri
ght/
incase you missed it

>>348131429
With all the laws and regulations to demolish any such greedy unmoral actions, why is it still occurring?

Humans are going to be humans regardless if government puts you in handcuffs or not.

>>348130974
The government has a responsibility to do something. And there's nothing artificial about fiscal policy. The fact is, we need revenue to pay off our debt. And Obama is right, the Bush tax cuts are killing revenue.
>>348131286
>More spending hasn't led to ANY jobs other than the public sector gains (not good) and more taxing only leads to even more dependency on taxes which only leads to even more taxation.
More spending has created jobs.
The only big spending has been the stimulus, which looked great, until we crapped out halfway through. Now we're about where we have been all decade. And your comment on taxes is just idiotic. No comment.

>>348131639
dozens of thousands?
you're the kind of dumb roody-poo they want to give welfare to, and raise my taxes. fuck off roody-poo.

>>348129078
Communism worked. In the places where it was genuine productivity sharply rose and progress was steadily increasing, it was a centralized bureaucracy that destroyed crops in the USSR

A completely unregulated, free market economy...?

Have fun working for $2 an hour, without benefits, 7 days a week, 12 hours a day. That's what corporatism will do if allowed to run unregulated.
Oh, but our 'economy' will do just fine.

>>348131429

So you want to centralize power to one asshole who controls everything. Yeah that works out greatly in history.

Tyranny is an old idea and liberty is new idea in history

I like Ron Paul's politics. I like the fact he avoids the horrible right wing social issues.

I can not square with the fact hes overly christian and believes in creationism.

He touts this ignorance and there-for I will once again vote for Obama. There is no getting around this....

I DO appreciate the fact that he continues to run as he is one of the more rational Republican Candidates in years.

Answering OP's question:

The amount of progress a country makes has always been tied to the degree to which the people are free; more freedom leads to more progress. A totally unregulated market, while hypothetical, would therefore make the most sense. If the government only protects rights (especially property rights) as it is supposed to, then the marketplace should regulate itself according to economic laws.

Misconceptions about Capitalism lead to people believing that monopolies would occur in an unregulated market. However, it is only when governments create barriers to entry into a marketplace that we ever see monopolies. It has been my opinion that government intervention in the economy has always caused more damage than whatever damage may have been caused by non-intervention.

But I'm a Ron Paul supporter, so feel free to just dismiss my ideas as crazy.

>>348132057
this.

0/10 idiot

ron paul just says shit he has no way of doing
kind of like the idea he could be elected president of usa

>>348131922
>went to university
>thinks knows something

I see where you made your mistake

Repost from earlier /thread

I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.

—Thomas Jefferson,1816

>>348132080
hmmmm

>>348132307

Sort of like Obama and Bush followed through on their promises right? Except they are known liers that are bankster butt buddies that the corporate media pushed as great canidates.

>>348132080
Oh shut the fuck up. That argument is so profusely retarded.

>derp hurr minimum wage is around $8 yet people on average get paid $15

Where is your logic nao?

>>348132417
Thomas Jefferson was a barbaric idiot who would prefer to simplify thought and slaughter Indians than discuss the modern money mechanics that Hamilton pioneered and designed to concentrate wealth. Shut up IDIOT.

I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before, even in the midst of war. God grant that my suspicions may prove groundless. —Abraham Lincoln, 1864

>>348131260
liberal fags, where's your answers to this?

Ron paul can save this country, we need radical movements to start moving in a better direction than we are. If Obama is elected for a second term, america is in some serious shit. We need a Ron Paul revolution

FUCK AMERICA.
Seriously.
All your stupid competing economic doctrines are juvenile, moronic even, to argue over. The fact is, we're fucked. This nation is never EVER going to be able to work hard enough to pay off it's national debt. We're too deep in the hole. It's going to collapse. Not a damn thing any of you morons can do about it.
Obama's Socialist bullshit can't fix it.
Pauls' free market nonsense can't fix it.
A congress that does nothing but bitch and moan for months on end can't do shit. EVER. Oh, and you can kiss your precious democracy goodbye too. That shit don't fly when imperial superpowers start losing their grip.

We're going to lapse into a total depression. At which point I can only hope people are smart enough to revolt against this stupid government once and for all, so we might have a chance of starting from scratch.

>>348131922
>BUT THEY CREATED JOBS LOL
>unemployment rate still over 9%

HURR DURR FUCK YOU

>>348132775
Jefferson built his own revolutionary stylish house.

You couldn't rebuild your car starter at gunpoint. With a dick in your mouth. Cumming at a rather abnormally amount. candy-ass.

>>348131260
The free market actually never existed. If by free market you mean the ability to freely start a business up, then yeah. But the inconvenient truth of the matter is that the United States Federal Government has been artifically proping up companies from the very beginning, even before that states like Virginia were run by a plutocracy of wealthy land owners.

Free market is a social myth.

>>348132954
What he says is true

see chart:

>>348131563

>>348131260
>unlike china
>mfw china has the fastest growing and most stable economy in the world.

>>348132847
He freed the slaves.
That renders his argument invalid.

>>348132666

In an unregulated free market economy, corporations will buy up all the land they can, and lobby government even worse than they do now. Without regulations (such as minimum wage) they will pay what they can get away with. Some companies will of course have competitive wages and options, but jobs for the less educated will only get worse. It happened before, that's why such regulations are now in place.

By the way, nice trips you stupid fuck.

>>348132080
CORPORATISM 1) the organization of a society into industrial and professional corporations serving as organs of political representation and exercising control over persons and activities within their jurisdiction

2) the control of a state or organization by large interest groups. (i.e. obama care exemptions for unions, macdonalds. CEO of GE being on obama's economic advisory board. mega-corporations donating millions to obama and bush. Cheney and haliburton etc...)


Ron Paul is the ENEMY of corporatism. He wants CAPITALISM

>>348133413
>most stable
don't be a fucking retard. they're wasting trillions of dollars worth every day on pipe-dreams and failed projects.

ex)http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2005231/Chinas-ghost-towns-New-satellite-pictures-massive
-skyscraper-cities-STILL-completely-empty.html

>>348133534

Headshot!

>>348131260
>the free market made the west what it is, before america was colonized europe was fruitful because of all the countries in an economic battle.
european countries highly restricted trade between each other. they were mercantilist, not even close to free marketeers. domestically they were fuedal, not capitalist. wealth of nations wasn't even written until 1776 genius
>Unlike china a large Centralized system
a large centralized system that's growing at 10% a year, disproving your ideological dogma about free economies

>>348132057
>communism worked
...
....
lol, no.
I suggest you go read Perestroika. In it Gorbachev points out why communism was failing.

People being lazy roody-poos for one, getting paid to do nothing. What good is it to have 100% employment if you only have people moving rocks from one side of the road to the other?

>>348128731
>Has a completely unregulated, free market economy ever been attempted/successful? How can he possibly be sure that a completely free market will solve our problems?

america had a free market economy for over a century (most people say 1776 to 1913) although some people say it was only truly free during the free banking era (1837–1862), when there was no financial regulation. america hasn't been a free market since, and a lot of things preventing it from having a free market are done at the state level, which the president can't do much about.

>>348129178
>Under Ron Paul, would age of consent laws be abolished?

if ron paul was president, he'd be the leader of the federal government. age of consent laws are a states right's issue and are controlled at the state level, not the federal level, so no. although it may be possible that it could be considered a violation of substantive due process (which is how abortion bans and sodomy laws were ruled unconstitutional) but this can only really be done by the supreme court. Of course, RP could just appoint justices that agree with his views.

>>348128731

Yeah it'll work the day every human being on the planet is a hardworking, honorable person with no ill intentions or greedy personality aspects.

Really, a 5 year old can tell you that's a dumb idea.

>>348133413
since about 30 years ago when they opened up to trade, I.E. a opener market.

>>348133744

Easy to grow an economy when you have slave wages, no environmental controls, and steal every technology that is not bolted down.

That won't last forever because their people may tire of their slave wages vs. the chinese slave driver billionaires.

I'll just leave this here http://7iny.info/9ZIW78

>>348133509
You roody-poo.

You spout nothing but speculation from self made opinionated rachel maddow spoonfed bullshit.

You still haven't explained why evil corporations pay more than they are legally bound to.

Lobbied government? Go see who the biggest donors are. Unions. Unions tend to be anti corporations such as yourself. SO if lobbying government is the problem, you are the problem.

And where has it "happened before"? The only lac of education and a job I see is from you. Get a job you uneducated twat.

>>348128731

Ron Paul is not an advocate of the 'a completely free market'; he's a Statist.

>How can he possibly be sure that a completely free market will solve our problems?

How can anyone be possibly be sure that anything will solve our problems?

Either way, read some Austrian economics.

>>348134073
>Yeah it'll work the day every human being on the planet is a hardworking, honorable person with no ill intentions or greedy personality aspects.

So because there are greedy and non hardworking people. We should punish all the hardworking, honest people to make things easier for the greedy/lazy people?

A greedy businessman can only make money by selling a good product...unless of course you are not in a free market and instead are in what there is now where it's easier to bribe the government than make a good product.

>>348133090
More people get jobs.
More of the millions or so discouraged workers start looking for jobs again. As soon as they file at the unemployment office, they're counted as unemployed. So the flow of people is heading in the right direction, while the statistical number stays the same.

>>348133683
You linked me to an article where China is building vast neighborhoods to move migrants out of its over-populated cities... neighborhoods that aren't more then a couple years old..

The reporter *assumes* there will be a housing bubble collapse due to this over-expansion. Which is possible but he reports on it as fact but it hasn't happened yet.

Your story only proves they have the money to spare. Even if these infrastructure programs aren't netting a profit yet.

>>348134423

>Ron Paul is a Statist
...is this nigga serious?

>>348132233
Not a single rebuttle to the fact he thinks the world we live on is 6000 years old? Yet he is logical enough to run for office. Just because he's slightly more idealistic then his peers. Doesn't make him worthy of my vote.

>>348132233
>>agreeing with the political issues, but not voting for him because of his religious believes.

nice job. Screwing up our country because of your intolerance.

>>348133744
1. this is not true, why was there trading vessels? why did people explore? for trade

2. china was doing crap until they opened up there market a little while ago. do you really think china can go from making cheep stuff to a mature market like the US? also I would say India are the country to watch not china because they have a opener system.

>>348134623
>>348134623
most of the neighbor hoods they made are completely empty even after years of being built

>>348134104
>implying the wages the chinese got were worse than what they had before.
>implying the destruction of the environment is a natural result of capitalism and not the corrupt chinese government.

You do realise the soviet union destroyed their environment far worse than the US did over the same time period (and got much less economic growth. Poor people in USSR were much poorer than poor people in america)

>>348134566

People that ran out of unemployment payemts go into the red box dumbass

U6 =16.1%

Employment to population ratio = 58.1%

This is a shit economy with 10-20 years of more misery ahead because of interventionist bullshit borrowing by the federal government.

Your opponent will look at your rational argument and say, "You're right. I have changed my mind. Thanks Anon!"

Just wait...

>>348135016
Intolerance? Intolerance to the fact this mindset continues to hold back advances in science, medicine and human well being? Intolerant to the fact they want to try and tell kids that the pursuit of scientific truth is something to be abandoned ceeding the next several generations of scientific literate students to dogmatic bullshit?

Fucking right i'm intolerant to this bullshit, and damn right i'll vote according to it.

>>Has a completely unregulated, free market economy ever been attempted/successful? How can he possibly be sure that a completely free market will solve our problems?

By using a priori logical deduction starting from a small set of unquestionable axioms regarding human action.

If you truly want to know and aren't trolling, read the following: http://mises.org/resources/3250

>>348133744
The chinese economy isn't centralised retard.

>>348134566
Hey look i can mspaint economies tooz.

>>348135019
even north korea has some contact with the outside world. the existence of trade at all doesn't mean it's a libertopian free market wonderland

i don't care what you think is the country to watch because you're obviously stupid and ignorant. your response does nothing to address the point that highly regulated economies can grow extremely quickly

>>348135482

>>348135123
I uhh agreed with you.. I said the infrastructure aren't netting income yet... but a couple years isn't something to judge such a large scale investment on. If this was 3 decades removed i'd cede my point.

>>348135500
>The chinese economy isn't centralised retard.
roflmao. libertarians will deny the sky is blue if it contradicts their dogma

>>348135686

you silly idiot.

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Republic_of_China
2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_China
3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong

>>348135686
K so all those factories in china are actually run by the government...even though they make iPhones.

You're right anon. Thanks. You've given me a lot to think about.

>>348135968

The Chinese economy is centralized.

Are you a fucking idiot?

The CPC controls everything. Hong Kong and Taiwan are not indicative of anything except historical military weakness.

You guys should check out this vid from The Daily Show about Ron Paul lol

http://vimeo.com/27757870
http://vimeo.com/27757870
http://vimeo.com/27757870
http://vimeo.com/27757870

here's a claim not a single paultard disputed:
>Communism?? really, Communism is 100% Centralized.
from the wikipedia link another paultard gave:
>The PRC is regarded by several political scientists as one of the last five Communist states (along with Vietnam, North Korea, Laos, and Cuba),[53][54][55] but simple characterizations of PRC's political structure since the 1980s are no longer possible.[11] The PRC government has been variously described as communist and socialist
they can't both be right, so which paultard is the paultardiest? choose carefully!

>>348136236

OMG I can't believe I have to actually do this for you.

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_China#Economy
2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PROC#Economy
3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong#Economy


P.S. - socialists are all gay because they can't search wikipedia, let alone do real research.

>>348136236
My dad is in charge of all the factories in china for a european company.

It's not centralised dumbfuck. All he has to do to open another factory is buy the land and advertise to the people in the rural areas and they all come.
Government isn't involved at all.

>>348135529
north Korea does not trade like Europe did? where did the phrase all roads lead to Rome come from?

India is growing much faster, i will attach china in another post

>>348133744

>a large centralized system that's growing at 10% a year

you're reading the numbers wrong.

it grows at 10% a year because it has such a low GDP per capita. Actually i'm pretty sure it's closer to 20%, but that still isn't much

china's GDP per capita is only $4,382. 20% of $4,382 is $876.40 per capita.

Hong kong is said to have the freest market in the world today and. hong kong's gdp per capita is $31,590. it's growth is 7.2%, which is a lot more than china's $876.40

singapore has a GDP per capita of $43,117 and growth of 17.9%

australia has a GDP per capita of $55,589 and has 3.3% growth per year

So what's bigger, 7.2% of $31,590, or 10% of $4,382?

>>348135529
china's

>>348135403
>>mfw christian scientists shaped modern chemistry, physics, and mathematics

>>348132417
Thomas Jefferson was a bad president who cut off foreign ties, nearly bankrupt the country, and forced the next guy into the war of 1812. Besides the Louisiana purchase, he was awful. learn history.

>>348135501
I lol'd. I will be honest, What I MS Painted was only true to an extent. I don't know shit about economics, I got a C in that class. No one in this thread knows shit about economics. We're just regurgetating what our favorite politicians say.

So I'm bowing out. Good day, /b/.

>>348134965

Yes, this nigga is serious.

My contention that, Ron Paul will probably cause the economy to some extent, he's the captain of the titanic AFTER it hit the iceberg. There's no such thing as a 'completely free market' if taxation exists, as it's seen as legitimate economic coercion.

Maybe what I said just went over your head. How do you define 'Statist'?

>>348136515

I'm a different anon.

If you don't understand that policy and a gun dictates what people are allowed to do, you don't understand - anything - about functional communism. While China continues to allow free-market ideas to seep into the country, they continually pull back from these in little ways, and could sew up the country at any time they saw fit.

Hong Kong and Taiwan are indicative of nothing, except that if China does sew up, Hong Kong will fall back into the dark ages.

Today's news on Ron Paul. "Ron has some good ideas but will never be elected as President. It is not because of him, it is because of his followers".

Damn people, I don't know what you are doing but it isn't good for Ron.

>>348136992
actually I and >>348135482 do because we have both read human action and other ASE books.

>>348131260

This.

The United States decline from world power status lines up directly with the massive increase in regulation. You can't open a lemonade stand without a permit, if you are a kid and you put m-80 in the toilet, you're a international terrorist, etc etc.

You aren't legally allowed to do electrical work in your own home. You are required to be approved by the city to be this, to plant that garden, etc.

The destruction of the free market and the creation of a aristocratic corporate oligarchy (government centrally controlling economy and business, creating regulations so that it's CIA front companies and the monopolies can maintain their status without having to worry about free market competition) lines up with the destruction of the United States.

Ron Paul aims to fight the source of the problem.

>>348136697
>where did the phrase all roads lead to Rome come from?
can't tell if you're trolling now or literally retarded. it comes from the days of the roman empire, not the renaissance era we're talking about
>India is growing much faster
this is objectively false. regardless, india is also socialist, so either way you're full of shit

>>348130290

This.

If it comes down to Obama vs Paul then I'm voting for Paul. If it comes to Obama vs any other Republicunt then I'm voting Obama.

COME AT ME BROS!

>>348136830
Post a couple examples outside of the one: Francis Crick who converted post-fact

.

>>348137275

>Today's news on Ron Paul.
>Today's news
>Today's propaganda

FTFY

>>348130290
>Paul is right about civil liberties, and ending the fucking wars. Wrong about economics.

So the fact that Ron Paul predicted both the end of the dot com bubble and the 2008 financial crisis and the demise of the dollar doesn't impress you eh?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kgxn4pD08s4

>>348137765
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencefaith.html

enjoy

>>348138433
I will enjoy, give me a couple mins to look at this awesome webpage! Don't run off now

man politics fries my brain, im such a fence sitter it's a joke, i just can't make my mind up about which ideology is superior. anyone else feel the same? i prefer to stick to questions of science like theism vs. atheism because it's so much easier when you know 100% you have the truth behind you

with politics and economics it seems like there is no truth, none of the ideologies are perfect and people's preferences are purely based on subjective interpretations of history and theory

ahah

>>348128731

this is Charles Aznavour.

>>348138349

The demise of the dollar?

LOL

>>348137748
retarded??? you simple fucker, all roads lead to Rome because of trade. it was the economical power house of its time!

niall ferguson civilization may teach you something.

>>348138433

Hey man, thats pretty mean. Posting facts get in the way of people's agenda against religion.

>>348130290

Speakin' some sense.

>>348138591
Most every scientist listed on this page is pre 17th century... you know.... when it was a crime to *not* be religious.


Also I stopped reading @ Albert Einstein.... which is total and utter bullshit if you have *ever* *ever* read *anything* regarding his views of the supernatural.... You can't take a couple quotes about a deistic concept of god from someone and make them religious...


I didn't even get 5 fucking mins into this nonsense.

>>348138686
No there is truth in economics at least.
It's just that they don't teach it university so the only opinion you get is from retards.

Watch this and you will see that some people actually know the truth of what's going on:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I0QN-FYkpw

>>348131260

You don't know the slightest thing about history and need to read a book. Good day sir.

http://www.gratispremium.info/?ref=338496

would ron paul click my link? yes, yes he would

>>>>348137275

Hey guys if CNN says it then it must be true! It's not like there's an intentional media blackout on Ron Paul, they must be being 100% honest and unbiased!

US Army Psyops caught working at CNN HQ in 2000:
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1748

US Army Psyops caught working at CNN HQ in 2004:
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1983

US Army Psyops at CNN Analysis 2011:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1839026

US Army Psyops embedded in local television stations:
http://newworldorderreport.com/News/tabid/266/ID/5643/Report-Active-Duty-Army-PSYOPS-Soldiers-Embedd
ed-in-Local-Media.aspx

The news only speaks about Ron Paul in a dismissive tone because the news is a propaganda mouthpiece of the State.

Pic related the dinosaur falling off the cliff is us the people, other is the corporate elite.

>>348139042

but that's what i mean, i've listened to peter schiff before and everything he says seems to make sense, but then i've listened to hours of noam chomsky who would have completely opposing views and everything he says also seems to make sense, it's too much of a mind fuck

>>348138433
Max Planck.... ALSO not a religious person... He wasn't anti-religious... and the catholic church floated a rumor around about a deathbed conversion... which they often do with men of this stature.

>>348138433
WIlliam Thomson Kelvin bust is the one that was standing in the main library in London I think? He was anti-darwin when the Origin of Species was published..


They took his bust down and replaced it with Darwins IIRC?

>>348139528
Who makes better predictions about the economy peter schiff or chomsky?
lol.
I like the criticisms Chomsky makes about foreign policy as well but he really has no fucking idea about economics

>>348138433
The fun with websites that tout falsely, lists like this... It makes it easy and hilarious when ignorant lay-people such as yourself use it as proof without even doing the research on the individuals yourself.

>>348137324

What you have described is neither inherent in nor a necessary result from the principle of communal ownership.

People need to actually read the communist canon. If you don't get the difference between commercial communism and the abolition of privacy and private property, you shouldn't have an opinion about this, at all.

>>348139755
Max Planck is on the list because of his sympathies for his Jewish friends during the Third Reich... he was a German Scientist at the time

>>348142269
That said, he wasn't religious.

Serious question: how could Ron Paul actually become president? What would need to happen?

>>348138433
>Einstein on the list
mfw

>>348141156
>>Impossible to achieve this ideal
reading an ideal from a book has no affect on the real world

>>348142408
People would need to vote for him...?

>>348132268

The belief that only a Government can create a monopoly is wrong. Businesses can create monopolies through contracts and public relations, just like the Government. The private sector and the invisible hand of the market are just as inept at functioning in an efficient and beneficial way as an organizational force in the economy as the Government. Placing blame on the Government, and implying that taking its powers away would actually give individuals more freedom is a lie. It would only shift the centralized power to wealthy people. These people tend to be lazy assholes who were left huge amounts of money from their families. They have such a sense of entitlement that they believe they are Heaven sent Capitalist leaders. Really they are valueless human waste who hate Americans and think the real producers of goods and services should be their slaves.

>>348138846
lolfacts.... try again

>>348143625
>The belief that only a Government can create a monopoly is wrong. Businesses can create monopolies through contracts and public relations, just like the Government

You do realise that "public relations" means manipulating the government so they will give you a monopoly (which is how all modern day monopolies exist).

>The belief that only a Government can create a monopoly is right.

fixT

>>348131369
So you never geard of FDR?
Get your "education" from Fox?
lrn2history

>>348145437
yeah economy was great under FDR. His policies really worked..
Oh wait the US was in a depression the whole time to the point where food had to be rationed during WWII under his presidency.
DERP

>>348133509
>and lobby government even worse than they do now

lobbying government = getting government to regulate the economy to your benefit

free market = no regulations

>>348147227
>>348147227
>>348147227
>>348147227
>>348147227
>>348147227
>>348147227
>>348147227
>>348147227
This, a thousand times this.

>>348145437
Quotes about FDR from hitler:
"I have sympathy for Mr. Roosevelt, because he marches straight toward his objectives over Congress, lobbies and bureaucracy."
Hitler went on to note that he was the sole leader in Europe who expressed "understanding of the methods and motives of President Roosevelt."

What happened to the Wheat Thins?

>>348145437
You ever heard of the national debt? You know, the one we will never pay off? Yeah the one all over the news how congress was having trouble raising the debt ceiling. That's basically how much money he Gvt. can borrow from the fed to fund it's shit. If it were raised (which it was), the Gvt. wouldn't have to cut spending, but we would never be able to pay off the debt.

(The debt is now more than there is money in circulation and in all reserves combined - 14 trillion +).

In the event of 'bankruptcy', the countries assets will be seized and transferred to the federal reserve (which is owned by anonymous OFF SHORE private bankers). Every American will be taxed in some way, many will have homes reclaimed when property taxes are too high to pay. Every single person will be literally owned by our creditors.

Once the government is claimed, there is nothing protecting the people's debts from being claimed, which adds the consumer debt of 54 TRILLION +. That consumer debt ultimately leads back to the Federal Reserve. (Banks borrow money from there, and lend it off to consumers for buisnesses, homes, cars, credit cards, etc). All this HAS to be paid back eventually, and by design, it is mathematically impossible to pay back, as the money doesn't really exist. It's a delusion of a simple law stating the federal reserve has the power to print and lend money, because it's a loan, and eventually has to be payed back, and therefore has value (supposedly).

Ron Paul wants to audit the federal reserve because he KNOWs the mere existence of the Federal Reserve is the largest threat to Americans, freedom, and our country as a whole.

This isn't some big conspiracy, in fact, there is none. All it is, is a group of greedy, yet intelligent fucks to create a massive ponzi scheme, then bribe the people in power to go with it.

Ron Paul is one of the only people in the Federal Govt. to be on OUR side.

its okay to have govt debt,

but its not okay that the treasury has to pay interest to the federal reserve bank ... as they are motivated to print more money simply because it increases their profits

>>348130290

Obama is horribly wrong about economics.

Seriously, where the fuck do you see any sort of 'change', other than digging the whole that caused the problem deeper, while water is rushing into that same hole.

(The hole is the debt, bailing the banks that played a part in the housing ponzi scheme is the digging, and the water is the burdon of the debt that eventually has to be payed off one way or another, else the dollar collapse completely, and hyper-inflation takes over. In which case, we'll be begging for the federal reserve to make us it's slaves anyway.

Obama is a yes man. He is not there to bring economic change. He is there to keep the system up so that we can continue to be robbed of our liberties and our money. If he weren't, the financial system would collapse and rebuild itself off the freed assets (a very important point in economics you clearly know nothing about).

If the financial system collapses before the debt is called back, the federal reserve goes broke as well, as the money they printed would be too worthless to do anything with once they did recall it.

>digging the whole
>the whole
>whole

mfw.jpg

>>348149475
You do realise that the FED returns all it's profits to the treasury.

That's what's bad about it. With the FED:

The government can go into debt easier, so they're happy.

The mega banks get to sell the bonds they buy to the Fed (with money they borrowed from the Fed). So they're happy.

The people at the fed are all from the same banks that use it to rip everyone off. So they're just doing their job.

The people that lose is everyone who is not part of this game.

You all sound so greedy and childish. "Give me my money wah wah wah" You know you're just going to buy more cigarettes and fast food with it.

>>348149475

Debt is fine, so long as there's a way to repay it.

Unfortunately, when the sole asset behind what you're borrowing, is that asset itself, and you're expected to pay it back, WITH INTEREST.

The entire idea behind the dollar is that it, by nature is a bubble. Something that has no intrinsic value other than what people socially value it at. That social value comes solely from the many layers of debt behind it.

Even if we didn't pay interest, like you said, there would be no point in lending the paper notes, and no point in being punctual on returning the loan, as there is no extra cost for waiting a long time. The paper would have no value.

It's a SCHEME. Real value is something that has the same value for everyone involved. When it comes to the end, the value of the dollar in debtor hands actually becomes negative, every asset you 'own' and every movement of economic activity you've done would be needed to be reversed in order to pay the loan, which means you give EVERYTHING up. You're working to be enslaved. Thus, making you already a slave.

A well taken care of slave, maybe, but for how long?

This story is just reaching it's climax, and I can't even tell what's going to come...

All I can say is it's going to lead to the most oppressive society ever, more severe than any piece of literature or historical precedent and on a global scale.

People have known a New World Order was going to arrive, but no one truely knows in what form.

>>348151152

plz dont troll sir

the us is administrated for the benefit of large corporations, and people who hold non-management jobs or require aid will be marginalized. in fact people who need expensive health care will be criminalized.

unlike R Paul I think that government has a role in social programs , public safety , and education.

>>348149970
Letting the businesses fail is one thing, but you cannot let the banks fail.

>>348128731

Anyway, back on OP's topic.

Yes it has.

Any growth by centralization is a bubble by nature.

That includes china's growth, and America's growth since the 30s

Like all bubbles, they will pop, assets will be liquidated, and things will return to balance.

>>348130290
>Obama is right about economics

>>348133413
>>348133744

GDP isn't an accurate measure of wealth. It's a measure of economic activity.

Naturally, when you're leaving ghost CITIES and demolishing newly build roadways to rebuild them for simply because you can (IT PRODUCES JOBS DERP), doesn't mean that the economy is thriving.

A thriving economy is about efficiency, not about needless waste.

>>348152412
And you can't let the bank fail because...

Why exactly?

Also if they can't fail then what sort of business practices they would employ considering they are sociopathic entities concerned only with immediate profits? OH the bullshit they've already pulled, and are likely to pull again.

Why is /b/ filled with so many goddamned liberals?

Then again, I shouldn't be expecting intelligence from here of all places...

I can't believe people believe China is a communist country, probably the most ignorant position one can take. In short, China is only considered communist because of history and it has nothing to do with the current situation. Current Chinese economy is a mix between government controlled and pure capitalism, essentially the same as most European states but due to less regulations and low currency it's extremely competitive.

It's true however that China cannot uphold this "perfect" growth for much longer as most have speculated that their currency is too low and needs a higher value which would bring down their growth.

debt is okay for rebuilding infrastructure

debt is okay for short term needs ( e.g. katrina )

debt is not okay for expanding programs that don't work, aren't needed, or have run well past their original objectives ( e.g. affirmative action, generational welfare, and immigrant/refugee aid greater than citizens get )

Ok, serious Ron Paul question:

Didn't you guys think "Anthem" and "Atlas Shrugged" were shitty books?

>>348148515

interesting post, i knew vaguely that was the case but not the details, if that isn't a reason for every US citizen to vote RP I don't know what is.

it's no longer a question of left vs right, democrats vs republicans, its not even a question of ideology, its a question of liberty vs impending tyranny, of continuing this fraudulent system or challenging the status quo. the only people out there who are willing to challenge the status quo are Ron Paul, Dennis Kucinich and Ralph Nader but Ron Paul is the only person with enough weight behind him to actually have a chance

>>348152837

You are incorrect. Monetary value is produced by scarcity, and scarcity is produced by waste not efficiency. If you have true efficiency it fucks up supply and demand because there is more than enough for everyone.

Our entire economy is designed around wasting enough to make sure there is still more demand than supply.

http://www.angelfire.com/crazy/wwww/ExtraStuff/ZEITGEIST.html

R Paul and much of congress have demonized public health care on the grounds it is wasteful and inefficient.

Can they point to example of another country that Got It Right ?

>>348154532
>>348154532
yes, can anynewt gingrich answer this?

>>348153892
yes, they sucked dick

OP implying that this whole global economy, or even national economies are sustainable. Especially given our current context.
Quit trying to fix the shingles on the roof of your house while it's on fire.

>>348142408
Getting him to win the primaries would be an excellent start. Heres how:

Find out if your state has open primaries (in that case you don't even have to register Republican!). [Here's a list to see if your state has open primaries.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_election#Primary_systems_state-by-state) If it doesn't, skip to step 5.

If your state has closed primaries, Google "[state] party registration filetype:pdf" For example, the first link for "arkansas party registration filetype:pdf" is [this voter registration form](http://www.sos.arkansas.gov/elections/elections_pdfs/voter/voter_reg_ap_ar.pdf).

Fill out the form with your information. Remember to select the Republican party (even if it's a painful pill to swallow)! In some forms it will indicate that this is for switching parties. In my Arkansas example above you'll see that in the top-left box, the bottom option.

Mail it in! All these PDFs have instructions with them about where to send it. Within 1-2 weeks you should get a confirmation letter back along with your updated voter registration card and your voting location (typically a local school).

Check [this Wikipedia list for confirmed primary dates](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_(United_States)_presidential_primaries,_201
2#Primary_and_caucus_dates). Your state may not be up yet, but it will be well before the primary. You can also check estimated schedules [here](http://www.2012presidentialelectionnews.com/2012-republican-primary-schedule/) and [here](http://frontloading.blogspot.com/p/2012-presidential-primary-calendar.html).

On the date: go out and vote!

>>348155433
on it /b/ro