Socialism is such a retarded idea. Created by people who are stuck in shitty jobs and cant get anywhere in life, they want to take from the rich and middle classes but socialism as a whole hurts EVERYONE

Socialism Made Simple
An economics professor at Texas Tech said he had never failed a
single student before but had, once, failed an entire class.
That class had insisted that socialism worked and that no one
would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.
The professor then said okay, we will have an experiment in this
class on socialism. All grades would be averaged and everyone
would receive the same grade, so no one would fail and no one
would receive an ‘A’.
After the first test the grades were averaged and everyone got a ‘B’.
The students who studied hard were upset and the students who
studied little were happy.
But, as the second test rolled around, the students who studied little
had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they
wanted a free ride too; so they studied little. The second test
average was a ‘D’!
No one was happy.
When the 3rd test rolled around the average was an ‘F’.
The scores never increased as bickering, blame, name-calling all
resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of
anyone else.
All failed, to their great surprise, and the professor told them that
socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is
great, the effort to succeed is great;
But when government takes all the reward away; no one will try or
want to succeed.

You know how we know that Capitalism doesn't work? By watching it not work.

You know how we know that Socialism doesn't work? By not watching it work in one limited enviornment (pre-computer-age Russia.)

>>312534263


capital does work though.

It gives people what they want, when they want it and at the right price.

Technological advancement and entrepenurship thrives in capitalistic markets.

Sorry poorfags

>>312534263

That's fucking stupid. Socialism has been attempted dozens of times in dozens of countries in dozens of flavors, from North Korea to Egypt to Germany to France to Sweden to Cuba. The only place where it hasn't been a dismal failure is Sweden, which has spent the last 20 years transitioning to a more capitalist system with liberalized labor and business laws and lower taxes.

Capitalism, on the other hand, lead to a system where even an ignorant fuck like you can obtain access to a sophisticated electronic device and use it to communicate almost instantaneously across the world on a mass network for the limited, personal, and wholly indulgent purpose of showing off your ignorance and jerking off to anonymous tits.

So maybe capitalism IS a failure, but not in the way you imply.

>>312534263

QFT

I dissagree with OP

Obviously capitalism isn't going so well, soon the whole world order will crumble because all major western economies are overheated, and WAY too dependant on fossil fuels. When Oil price double, which it will within ten years, perhaps within five, then we are going down, and the more planned and regulated economies will thrive

Then the eastern block (Russia, China, India), and the socialist-minded South America will dominate world economics and the glorious west will decline as empires do

>>312535487


capitalism is only a failure if you have no motivation, no academic ability and dont help yourself. Otherwise it beats socialism, communism into the ground.

Would you rather live in:
North Korea, China, Cuba or Vietnam

or would you rather live here:
US and any country in the EU?

If we were all in socialist states we would be 20 years behind technologically wise

Fuck u guys! Im from sweden! And it has worked here, and it has worked good, so just shut the fuck up! Socialdemocracy ftw!

Fuck socialism. I dont want my government telling me what i can do, what i eat and what i can have

i dont want them to take any good ideas i have to make billions

i dont want them to take my wealth

real marxist communism has never been tried! communism would work if humans were not flawed creatures but they are so it all goes down the shittter

communism: the worker's party, created by a man who never worked an honest day in his life

ITT: people confuse socialism with communism.

There are several reasons why socialism, and specifically wealth redistribution by means of taxing the rich, does not work. All of these reasons stem from one important fact of life:

People have a strong desire to do whatever is in their own perceived self interest!

rot in hell..FASCIST!

Hey guys, if you're poor it's your own fucking fault right?

That's OP n friends in a nutshell.

>China, second largest economy in the world and showing super high growth year after year, communist
>America, largest economy of the world, quickly slipping to China, capitalist

mmhmm doesn't work at all

I have a brain; thus, I agree with OP.

yeah it works in Sweden where the population is around 10 million. It wont work in the US where the population is over 300 million and 5% of the population pays 95% of taxes.

>>312537086
ITT: Faggots who think communism in its strictest sense is actually possible to attain


Hence people interchange between socialism and communism as the noun.

>>312536885
Communism is wrong both on a philosophical level, and in practice. So don't bitch about it never being successfully tried, because there is no success in communism, just mediocrity.

"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries." - Churchill.

>>312537650


You are retarded. China is leaning more and more towards capitalism every day. Ever since they started capitalist policies in the 1980 look how far they have come.................

* Socialism causes poverty because it slows economic growth and progress through government waste, taxation on productive economic activity, discouraging innovation and the creation of hurdles for business. In addition, socialism causes poverty because it creates a disincentive to work and act responsibly.
* Socialism causes inequality because much of the money that goes to the government ends up in the hands of the rich and politically connected, it’s easier for wealthy individuals to avoid taxes, and it creates hurdles for business that the wealthy find easier to overcome. Socialism is a way for the rich to shut the door behind them, preventing those who are on their way up from reaching their destination.
* Liberalism tends to liken inequality to injustice, therefore, just by using the standards set by liberal thinking, socialism causes injustice because of the inequality it promotes. But more directly, socialist policies (wealth redistribution, social programs, and regulation) necessitate a larger, more powerful, more meddling, government that becomes a powerful tool for the wealthy, politically connected, and bureaucrats on “power trips” to take advantage of the rest of society.

>>312537650

Only reason China is able to grow is because of outsourcing and global demand from capitalist countries. How much of China's total production do you think that the Chinese really consume?

>>312537382
>>312537382
i would like to see when niggeres rape your family and steal you... if you still are a anti fascist

stupid anarchist nigger lover

>>> Indoctrinated brainwashed Americans.

Socialism caused this financial crisis! If it wasnt for them putting regulation on the banks telling them to lend lend lend lend then they wouldnt have falled. Unlike in a true capitalistic free market they would have been left alone to do what they want (aka no forced to lend)

>>312538222


THIS

CAPITALISTIC COMPANIES MOVE THEIR PRODUCTION TO CHINA. IF THEY ALL MOVED TO AFRICA CHINA WOULD BE A 3RD WORLD COUNTRY AGAIN (OHH WAIT THEY STILL ARE 3RD WORLD

>>312537828

You pay more taxes the more rich you are in sweden, a rich person taxes more % then a poor.

>>312536639

"Fuck socialism. I dont want my government telling me what i can do, what i eat and what i can have

i dont want them to take any good ideas i have to make billions

i dont want them to take my wealth"

You have a point, but there are many benifits to a socialist inspired state. Look at Europe, Canada and other places with more or less free healthcare. If you get sick in the US you have to pay, if you are poor you die og get an inferior treatment. Not so in these countries. This actually frees a lot of wealth for the nation as a whole, as more people will live longer and be more productive.

Also, some things are harmful when put in food, for instance the super sugar thingie syrup they put in cola in America, which they have started to make laws against because its harmful, and instead just using normal sugar, which is less harmful, again serving the society.

I mean, socialism is actually patriotism:
It's about how much we can get out of all the people, so they can lead the best lives, serving the best country, going to the greatest schools (a point which I would like to remind you guys have nothing to do with some super, probably very wealthy, university, I'm talking about the general standard of the education system) and in turn being the most educated, longest living, most HAPPY, not wealthy but HAPPY people.

Look at Denmark, happiest country in the EU, most socialist country, or one of the most at least, in the EU, if not the entire world without being some form of dictatorship

>>implying that socialism and communism are the same thing

>>not understanding the differences

German here. I agree with OP.

inb4 someone points out that China was a capitalist country for all but 61 of the past 4000 years

Conversation with a typical tea party-er.

Me: So you guys want limited government?
Teaparty: That is Correct.
M: So lets legalize abortion, the government should not be allowed to monitor and control every pregnancy in the country.
T: But jesus says dont kill babys.
M: Ok, lets get rid of Medicare
T: KEEP YOUR GOVERNMENT HANDS OFF MY MEDICARE!
M:Lets try something else, why dont we pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan.
T: But they need to be taught the word of jesus.
M: Fine, lets repeal the patriot act.
T: But we need that to fight the muslims!
M: Fine, what would you cut?
T: Taxes.
M: So, you want to keep all of the government programs in tact, but cut the governments money to fund those programs?
T: Yeah

>>312538720


It works in Sweden because of its low population but it doesnt work in bigger countries like the US

You cant expect a small minorty of rich people to fund a large amount of poor people. It wont work.

>>312538483
Yeaaah... Right....

>>312533662
nope, do not agree. You are clearly a faggot, and don't understand that we thank the creation of 'first-world' countries the socialist workers movements. also without socialism you would be sitting in a coal-mine from the age of 5, and you'd die at 30 or earlier, because nobody gives a shit about your worthless poor ass.

and now fuck off, faggot, and respect the good life all those men and women established for you with their own sweat and blood.

If you don't like socialism, just move to nigeria or somalia, no workers rights there. I'm sure you'l enjoy those glorious countries where 10 people hold 100% of the country.

Ignorant rants against socialism and/or capitalism and/or communism always annoy me.

I'm no socialist or communist (or anarchist), but I'm into political philosophy and economics so the way most people bastardize these terms is annoying.

I'd even go so far as to say that many pro-capitalist types don't actually understand what capitalism is, let alone socialism (and vice versa).

That being said, this is /b/ so I don't expect to have much of a serious discusson here. More likely a battle of slogans and/or insults.

Sure I don't like communists and I agree with OP that they don't understand much of economics. But I also don't like libertarians or right wingers and I think they don't understand much of economics either.

>>312538483
Please be a troll.

>>312538483
Agreed. Free banking would not have crashed so hard. (cf. Panics of 1907 and "Depression" of 1920-1)

>>312535070
>implying it works
>implying 99% of worlds population isn't capitalistic and poor

fucking fail, man

>>312534263
Capitalism works. You may not like how it operates, but it does usually work.

One can rationally argue that capitalism doesn't work as well as it used to and point to the fall in the average rate of return on investments as evidence of this, and I'll just say that is exactly what Marx predicted.

Socialists are generally very misunderstood. They also don't quite understand what they're advocating. State socialism is a totalitarian state. Very few socialists, if any, want that. Nobody likes coercion. They want non-state socialism. Basically, they want people working together. They want people to stop making money at the expense of others. It's a great and wonderful idea, but it all depends on how this is enforced. If it's enforced by the state, then it's a dictatorship. If it's enforced by the people, then it's a syndicalistic anarchical system. What I'm trying to say is that they are anarchists, but they usually don't know it.

>>312538483
>>312538483
Unmonitored corporations cause monopolies, and these monopolies failing is what causes market crashes and mass suffering of normal people.

Libertarians are retarded.

>>312539161

Well it works in all scandinavian countrys..and most of europe..

ITT: Foxtards don't recognize that Austrian School economics are theory, not fact.

People are not, in actuality, magical creatures like "rational actors" - even ALan Greenspan recently had to face up to that fact.

Laissez-faire is another ideology (much like Marxism) that ignores human nature.

< (pic related, a bright guy, but wrong)

>>312533662

how do present deflating suspicions of trolling..

fuck it:

... OPs truly a brainwashed fag. Lemme guess, youre pro-capitalism cause for you if socialism is wrong that other option never fails

turn off Beck sometimes, he'll incite this bullshit

>>312538095

> poverty

Because we don't know about the 100.000 homeless people in Chigaco

>>312538095

Excuse me? Look at the top movers in the US, all of them are worth more than 100 million dollars each.

>>312538222
about 36% of their gdp compared to the usa's 65% of gdp. your point?

>>312539414

You are dumb. With my wealth i would be able to buy Somalia and its people.

Id have 650 million in Somalia curreny.

>>312539681
I agree with this.

>>312540335

niggerlover detected. gtfo of america.

>>312540315
>>312540145
>>312539681
>>312539414

lrn2Hayek

at least there is proof capitalism doesn't work

>>312540106
That's a pretty good assessment of most 'socialists' in western countries.

I'm not sure how they deal with the authoritarian disconnect.

communism is a great idea, but humans suck ass

>>312540891


Communism doesnt work look at Russia, North Korea and how China has ditched it (now it has look at the econ growth its getting)

>>312540891
That's like saying there's proof gravity doesn't work

>>312536639

obviously confusing socialism with a dictatorship

check out scandinavia

one of the richest regions of the world, we all have "a welfare state" which was created by socialists

Also, we got the best technology fags

WE MADE HITMAN

>watching glen beck or o'reilly doesn't make you an expert on the economy

>>312539161
moron, europe in general is far more socialist than america and we have twice as many citizens as you.

also with our 'shitty' governments we managed to fully recover from ww2 and become biggest economy in the world within 1 generation.

Vienna was bombed to the ground in '45 and today its best city in the world after 60 years of social democracy.

hows that tasting for you?

the only reason why your turbo capitalistic america was succesfull was because our economies where destroyed and you had nearly 50 years of monopoly on world production.

now its over, and you haven't invested shit in your society, while we still increase infrastructure and renewable energy bigtime.
we're just starting and you are allready in your last breaths.

>>312540145

Libertarian here. We fully understand the threats that corporations pose to the general public. We don't want free trade, generally. We want out of NAFTA and G20 and such that allow corporate exploitation. We know that free trade is for corporations and not the people. Also, we understand that the government now is basically a corporatocracy. By limiting the government we limit the ability of corporations to control our lives. So libertarians are looking to limit corporate control as well as government control.

protip: the wealthiest countries with the highest standard of living are all socialist

>>312540614

Yep

Dem dere niggers cant stop stealing, can they!


>>you first

I agree with OP; socialists are like grasping, whiny children, refusing to grow up, wanting mommy and daddy to take care of them for their entire lives. Socialism = the desire to avoid adult responsibility.

if it weren't for communist actions taken by the soviet government in the 30's the nazis would have won. sorry Americans but if you try to deny this you're just proving yourself retarded

>>312541109
but what about cuba?

>>312541181

AND BATTLEFIELD!!

ITT: doesn't know the difference between socialism and communism

>communism, capitalism bad, socialism good

>>312541653
Same critique can be made against the 'capitalists' with the bank bailouts and the way capitalism will always seek to use the state to eliminate their competition.

Same game, different ideology.

>>312541568
And have large reserves of natural resources

>>312541801
Frederich Motherfucking Hayek, /b/itch.

>>312541528
Are you abso-fucking-lutely retarded? How does reducing government regulation reduce the control of corporations over our lives? (spoiler: it doesn't you fucking shit for brained mongo)

>>312541034

I talked to a socialist recently that opened my eyes. I want to get his opinion on the fact that a socialist state must use coercion in order to sustain itself. He pointed out that the general public has a misunderstanding of socialism, most socialists don't agree with the way that past socialist regimes have been run, and that he's not advocating for state control.

the difference is communists carry guns faggot

>>312542048
>Same game, different ideology.

You're onto something /b/ro

Chavez

>>312541109

Russia does not have communism you retard

North Korea does not have communism either, Kim is ruling the land while looking at things, that is a dictatorship - big difference, look it up you twat

China does not have communism either, it's a country recovering from a dictatorship with lots and lots of flaws still embedded in the very core of the state, still sort of a dictatorship.

Go to school noobfag

>>312541528
I agree that the danger to our liberty from corporations or from governments is identical.

But with all due respect, you have to recognize that is NOT a mainstream American liberatarian view at all.

That is a classical liberal view.

>>312542115

Limiting government control limits corporate control. Where there is government, there are corporations. Corporations sustain government, governments sustain corporations. By getting rid of one, you get rid of the other.

@ 312542048 - what you say is true. The large businesses who accepted the bailouts are also avoiding being responsible for their actions; or rather the government has allowed them to act without consequence.

communism is fucking brilliant on paper
in practice? not so much

and op does realize that most early philosophers hated the idea of democracy because, though it looks nice on paper, there are some really fucktarded people that are bound to screw things up?

i honestly don't think any sort of government will work well, but i feel like capitalism is giving me the best chance i can get. perhaps it's just because i'm middle class and white, though, as i know that minorities do have many more struggles.

Capitalism is hardly sustainable, just look at the U.S.

Eventually all western countries will adopt socialism too a certain degree, it's the natural evolution of human society. Just look at sweden, finland, etc which are 10-20 years ahead of the U.S.

'Tis the final conflict,
Let each stand in his place.
The internationale
Shall be the human race

>>312542263
Thanks /b/ro!

MA in political philosophy here. Undergrad work in history and economics. This topic is my turf.

>>312541528
that is stupid. by removing your government private corporations fill in that role, and while governments are democratically ellected corporations have the system of a dictatorship.

just because your democracy is shit doesn't mean you should go full retard on it.

you think if you remove government you would get corporations from polluting the environment or exploiting its workers? lol
man, i don't know, sorry but i can't believe yor country is really derping that much. it's just far too smallminded, you should seriously consider watch outside of your cuntry aswell when it comes to politics. you are far to isolationistic, and its quite insulting that you think that the only legitimate policies come out of the usa.

thats not true. you should work on your governments and demoracy, since one of the roots of your problem is that you just have 2 (two!) political parties. thats only one more than china has.

man that sucks man. work on that, not your herping excuse of not comming up with a serious idea.

Just because YOUR democracy sucks doesn't mean it doesn't work. it just fails at your place.

and I don't want to troll you bro, all I'm saying is LOOK OUTSIDE OF YOUR COUNTRY!

yeah.
Let's base our whole government on economy, and forget about the people.
after all, governments aren't made for the people.

SOCIALISM IS ABOUT MAN LIFTING HIS FELLOW MAN.

ONE MAN CANNOT LIFT 120 KG UNLESS HE IS A /fit/fag, TWO MEN CAN. AND THAT IS FUCKING SOCIALISM. BITCHES

Anyone claiming capitalism is a better alternative to socialism is trolling or doesn't know what either is.

americans need to stop blaming these so called socialists for their problems and realize that production in america has gone down the toilet. we dont produce shit. a lot of the really smart people go into finance for a quick buck, but they dont produce shit. meanwhile, some chinese nigger makes a plastic piece of shit which you buy and you have just transfered your wealth to him. once the money bubble bursts, guess what? you dont have it. you have plastic piece of shit from china, and the chinese have your money. it is only a matter of time, only a matter of time when china is going to be #1, and there is nothing you can do about it. its kinda sad.

re: No.312542868 I meant to say the government has made it possible, not allowed, businesses to avoid consequences. I'm not in favor of governmental control, rather I think that the gov't should stay out of the way and let the market work; and that means letting corrupt or ineffivient or just plain failing businesses to die off.

>>312542226
That's the point. Most socialists are opposed to state authority. But socialism REQUIRES state authority to function.

The non-authoritarian version is syndicated anarchism - which isn't actually socialism.

>>312539120 +1

good to know that others realize that the terms Libertarians/TeaParty should be used interchangeably. These fags believe they're some righteous disciples giving a lifetime mastering the US constitution but in reality they're just Republican minions who can scream pretty fucking loud.

>>312542796

Are you talking about the liberal point of view in regards to economics? Because the liberal economic view is all about free trade and such. I'm against the G8/G20 and WTO and NAFTA and everything that is free trade which enables corporations to exploit. You're probably talking about the modern liberal ideology, yes? In which case I would say that I am also extremely wary of governmental control. Liberals generally hate corporations (unlike economic liberals) and inadvertently advocate for governmental intervention. I only agree with governmental intervention if it prevents corporations from exploitation. Government works to allow free trade for corporations. If the government didn't help the corporations, then we would be a lot freer. I know I'm on the brink of hypocrisy, but it makes sense if you think about it hard enough.

I'm more of an anarchist than a libertarian anyway.

we as humans spend so much damn time arguing over this subject. Why dont either of them work? BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE FUCKING STUPID. Its fairly simple, capitalism doesnt work because people are greedy, socialism doesnt work because people are lazy. So who fucking cares about arguing over the matter of which one works and why. How about we change ourselves, because no matter what, if we were all better people, it wouldnt matter what system we used. We would be a better society no matter what.

>>312543091
You seem like a genuine guy, but Communism looks like a steaming pile of horse shit on paper.
Love you.

>>312537867
Actually, most people haven't got a clue what communism is, in the strictest sense.

That is to say, true communism is syndicated anarchism.

>>312543683
...Said the troll.

>>312543093

So you will admit that the political ideology you subscribe to gives you an unfair advantage (and an artificial ceiling for those who have a harder starting point (non-white, working class, female, etc) in life) compared to others (ie. socialism) you feel that the possible benefits that it offers you (that you are very unlikely to actually benefit from, social mobility is greatly reduced under capitalism) are worth keeping even though it causes a significantly lower quality in life for others?

My, what a lovely person you are.

today's large companies operate according to planning in the same way communist states do.

Arise, workers of the world! Today is the dawning of a new age! Rise up, and break the chains of your bourgeois capitalist masters! You have nothing to lose, and the whole world to gain!

Lol right.

>>312540466
oh god are you fucking retarded.
I'd like to see your 3rd world ass buy anything. moron. the only reason why you have money right now is because the united states have been a socialist country for the first 80 years of the last century. and now that you've stopped it you're going 3rd world again.

its a fact that a purely capitalistic country can not sustain wealth for its broad population. it allways moves towards all of the liquidity towards the biggest players, being the richest 1%.
its been like that during the 19th century and its like that in 3rd world countries today, and its moving in that direction in the united states curently.

enjoy.

*cough* australia has a socialist base to its economy *cough*

(and in the process of de-constructing it all we have managed is to slow our growth and raise the cost of living)

>>312544452

Said the trolling troll

>>312543875
Um yes it is, non-statist socialism is pretty much syndicated anarchism.

just because it's a more defined version doesn't mean it's not part of the broader definition. we're homo sapiens, but we're still homos (lol, captcha=anuses (garbage symbols))

>>312543968

>>I'm more of an anarchist than a libertarian anyway.

Perfect! I'm a vegetarian, let's talk how to property sauté a steak!

>>312543322

You could very well be right about private corporations taking over if government is abolished. However, as it is, governments are not preventing corporations from taking over. They are actually allowing them to and HELPING them do it. I feel that if government was abolished, corporations couldn't be supported as well as they are.

I don't think that the only legitimate policies come from the USA. I don't believe I ever said that. The USA has a lot of messed up policies, especially when it comes to foreign aid and intervention. We have become the policemen of the world and it's fucked up. I think our political parties need to be abolished as well.

>>312544940
Said the trolling troll trolling.

>>312534224
http://www.snopes.com/college/exam/socialism.asp

anecdotal evidence if nearly always just BS. i say this based on actually looking up stories like yours and haven't never once found them to be founded. serious? these wives tales have nothing to them.

>this thread

>>312543968
I said "classical liberal" for a reason. I like to use my political terms precisely and correctly (academic habit).

The dominant economic viewpoint in the USA in the present day is what is generally called 'neoliberal', not classical liberal.

The difference is that neoliberalism strips away all issues of moral conscience and ethics from classical liberalism and is just left with being an apologist and cheerleader for corporate capitalism.

>>312543875

Exactly. Socialists don't know that they're advocating for anarcho-syndicalism, which is really just anarchy.

Capitalism works and then doesnt work (referencing "After Shock" Bob Reich) in a pendelum motion
I doubt a Socialist Revolution will occur in America anytime soon because of Neo-Liberalism(i.e. Egypt)
but the main reason im a socialist is because the democrat are a bunch of bitches and republicans and conservatives control the wealth in America so neither of them can do anything to change things
Fuck it man
UNIONIZE

>>312545144
>I feel that if government was abolished, corporations couldn't be supported as well as they are.

Well you're wrong, sorry. Look at how the American government is lobbied, compared to other countries that resist it. If there was no government we would literally be slaves and be 'paid' with shelter and sustinence. See: when it was legal to have slaves, ie. there were no regulations on slavery.

>>312545133

LOL I have 2 ideologies. One is practical. As in, who I would vote for if there were an election. The other is ideological. My ideological society is an anarchic one. My practical one is a libertarian one.

>>312533662
oooh and you clearly have a fucking understanding of economics, crystal fucking clear Op

Why are you only looking at economic aspects of socialism? Socialism is about making education free, so that every person can study whatever he wants and be the most productive to society. Socialism is about preventing someone who could have been a productive member of society from dying due to lack of healthcare. Socialism is about giving every citizen access to unlimited knowledge in the form of the internet and other media outlets, thus preventing dictatorships and abuse governments from preying on their citizen's lack of knowledge. Socialism is about letting anybody marrying whomever the fuck they want. Socialism is about preventing people or religions from abusing the government to push their personal agendas. Socialism is about seeing the benefits for one self in helping other countries (America wouldn't be flooded with illegal aliens and drug cartel violence if it would help Mexico create a decent standard of living and thus removing their need to immigrate to the U.S.)

I could go on and on but you get the point.

>>312540614
Can't tell if.... wait, yes I can. Class A moron. This fuck is not a troll, just a good ol' fashion flag waving idiot.

>>312545065
No.

If one accepts the principle of anarchism, you cannot just assume that the people will choose to act in a way that is socialistic.

They might do so, but there is no guarentee they will. They could (theoretically) use that anarchistic freedom to be capitalistic.

one thing that makes me LAWL about the US is how they call Obama and the liberals "socialists". A sad show.

>>312546378

or how everyone in the US believes the only alternative to capitalism and laissez-faire is to be OMG OUR LIVES ARE TOTALLY CONTROLLED BY THE MAN

>>312543266

Political philosophy? I didn't know there was such a major. That's right up my alley. I'm majoring in both political science and psychology (with a lot of philosophy) and I've been trying to find a major that would combine the two.

>>312545840
You're absolutely right. It could definitely lead to corporate control, but I would like to think that the people would band together and say "fuck you" to all those looking to have slaves, rather than relying on a lazy and indifferent government to do it for them.

>>312544707
>>312544707
The greatest trick the bourgeoisie every played on the world was convincing everyone to shut up and play on their computers.

Side note you could replace the "play on their computers" with "watch their televisions" if you want.

>>312547021
It isn't a 'major' for undergrads.

I have a MA in the field of political philosophy.

Masters are a bit different than choosing a major as an undergrad. Such designations depend on which grad school you go to and your thesis.

>>312543875
nah thats not true. In austria the socialists are the second least authoritarian party behind the green party.

In fact the more you go to the right the more authoritarian the parties get.

It's like in the united states. the republicans are extremely authoritarian (bush comander and chief anybody?), while even the democrats are less of that.

Western Socialism is quite the opposite of soviet comunism when it comes to authoritarianismsms(non englishfag here derp)

We've been directly at the iron curtain, when a western socialist thinks of of its ideology, he ALLWAYS considers the massive fail that Stalinism was, and puts all his effort into avoiding all the faults the communists on the other side of the wall made.

and today its working really good.

its been patched a couple of times, the tech support is ok, and I'd really say its the most sustainable governmental type on our planet at this time. Ecological Social Democracy that is.

>>312547176
The idea is much older than that.

It is called "bread and circuses".

>>312548023

Ah I see.

brilliant.jpg

So if we don't have socialism, what are we going to do when we have enough stuff to fill everyone's needs and not everybody needs to work to do that? ie robots do everything.

>>312545144
but just because corporations take over the government in the united states doesn't mean they are doing the same everywhere else.

If you look outside of your contry you'd find out there are many very succesfull examples of how people govern their countries, and obviously the best ones are the social democratic ones.
what you are talking about in your country is just plain corruption.

and when corporations are starting to do the same in europe, than that only means that this fails, and we need to protect our democracies from this lobbying and infestation of our elected leaders.

If you want to think about constructive politics you've got to look at the complete first world and not just the usa.

cheers bro!

>>312549116
Theoretically, that's the future that Marx was predicting with the end of capitalism.

Socialism would favor about 85% of the American population. The problem is that with capitalism everyone strives to be in that other 15%...

>>312549116
Star Trek

Socialism at its finest.

>>312543093
Agreed.

keep this shit off /b/. foxnews or whatever has a comments section where you can go on and on in your endless circle jerk.

socialism rewards the middle and lower classes for staying in their places. Capitalism at least holds out the hope that some of us might be able to better our lot. Under a socialist system what you are now is what you're going to be until you die.

>>312550828
nope that's communism.

>>312550828
One of the arguments against that is that as a human being, you shouldn't be defined by your income status.

One should defined by who you are, not what you do.

>>312551338
Yes, but everyone knows money leads to a better life. And don't even give me that "money doesn't buy happiness" hipster bullshit. My live would be so much less complicated and stressful right now if I was upper-class...

>>312551700
but you aren't.

you get the hint?

I am dissapoint

>>312552020
I wouldn't be any better under socialism. I know I will be making at least a 6-figure salary eventually. I have the brains and the work-ethic...

If we were socialist, I'd have no will to live...

socialism is about using federal funds for a variety of social programs and taxing the rich slightly more and/or capping all employment wages at a certain value, e.g. $1.000.000 per anum while significantly increasing the minimum wage.

socialism isn't classless, it only slightly decreases the extremes of poverty and hoarding wealth

>>312551700
Don't kid yourself. Upper income levels corelate with mental illness and stress as much as any other economic group.

>>312552020

You're nasty, but clever.

Funny how everyone I've ever met who supports socialist policies is either a college dropout or someone who hasn't worked a day in their life.

>>312552433
>I have the brains
somehow I doubt that since you're posting in a thread about socialism without even knowing what socialism is

>>312552433
If you're smart you'll get the same in socialism. also you have to pay less money for most shit, like health care, lower criminality lowers costs of police and prisons, and lower education costs for you children.

it's basically normal capitalism, people just invest more money into their societies. which leads to more quality surroundings.

>>312552441
Yes, socialism has a good track record in reducing economic inequality. Alas, they always do it by chopping the top down to level out the bell curve.

The poor tend to stay poor. Just the formerly rich get to join them.

I offer USSR and Cuba as classic examples of this phenomena.

>>312552897
The limits of your social circle does not define reality nor does it provide a compelling argument.

(I just felt like pointing this out because I hate sloppy and/or fallacious arguments)

>>312534224

it's called social anarchism, look into it.

>>312553551
what you're describing is communism. (cuba and the USSR were both communist)

socialism barely affects the rich at all since in a purely socialist society commodity prices would fall as well, so in the end you'll still have as much purchasing power as before. again, socialism doesn't drag rich people to the poor, it drags poor people to the middle class.

I sir do not like anything that ends in an ism. therefor i would go democracy. humans are too stupid to make any idealisms truely work. Though we have the technology of the future and shit, we still centralize around our greed and "other" interests, the way we have for millenia. I told myself that i would never get into one of these troll threads again.

>>312553401
You appear to be referring to the social democratic model that is common in western Europe.

That's just a mixture of socialism and capitalism, in both the state and private spheres.

>>312535487

Ireland is a socialist republic and it's economic strength was the initial backing for the EURO.

>>312553551
bro, don't go full retard in here.

You are talking about communist countries oriented on Stalinism.

We are talking about western socialism, as made in Norway, Sweden, Austria Switzerland and Luxemburg.

So basically the richest countries on this planet.

You where just comparing a first world country to 2 countries who where fucking wastelands before communism kicked in.

>>312553721
why isn't there a picture of W.?

>>312554437
Alas, that what is called democracy is a facade.

What we in the west actually have is a system of rule by elites with periodic expressions of the permission of the governed (i.e. elections).

Real democracy is much an "ism" as any other, though it is far more rare than any of the others.

That being said, I commend your blurring of the economic with the political. There is no such thing as an 'economic' theory that isn't political and there is no such thing as a 'political' theory that isn't about economics.

>>312536186
>>312536236
>>312536236
HEY BRO. SOCIALISM ONLY FAILS IF HAVE NO MOTIVATION TOO. L2FUCKING GOVERNMENT SYSTEMS.

ITT: idiots who think Russia, China, Cuba, or Best Korea were anything close to socialist.

Fucking retards.

the stupidity in this thread really baffles me.

socialism is capitalistic. It only governs how profits (obtained through a capitalist system) is allocated, for example healthcare, free education, etc.

>>312554735
I stopped reading at "full retard mode".

If you have the ability to see 'samefag' posts, you are barking up the wrong tree here.

Socialism: when you realize money, and the product you are told to consume, have nothing to do with your overall quality of life or happiness.

Now hang on a minute... everyone knows that the greatest country in the world, the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea is socialist and they are awesome. When starvation hits, it fucks everyone around, not just the poor. Except for the godly leader Kim Jong Il, blessed be his name.

He is also awesome at golfin, he has played golf once in his lifetime and was 15 strokes under par. Top that imperialist pigs.

>>312533662
the only economics you know is based on a capitalist, almost free trade system. socialism does work you just dont understand it. study Switzerland.

>>312555139
Tis a shame noble sir, that what i had beleived democracy to be is just another lie. Though im not so surprised, what type of system would you call it in canada? we have been called a socialist society many times by the american gvt but i have to say it works rather well here, our democracy i mean. if it werent for the ration check and free taxes for the native people, our economy would be quite exquisite wouldnt you say?

I always laugh at idiots like OP. Socialism saved this country, just imagine if your lord and savior(Goerge w. Bush)didn't convert america into a socialist country. We would have been fucked

>>312556445
actualy, didnt he pretty much turn it into a nazi regime?

>>312538270


wtf does capitalism vs socialism have to do with people getting raped? r u fucking retarded?

*sigh* I normally avoid political arguments captialism is shit, it is unfair and makes the rich richer and the poor poorer this is bad, socialism 100% doesn't work but in modern day most practical is a mix of socialism and capitalism, communism hasn't existed large scale, and likely never will communism as defined by carl marx is socialism minus the government no classes no inequality and everyone working for the greater good, of course this requires cooperation most communist, especially anarcho-communist argue for no government, currency, and total equality, this existed in the case of native americans, they lived in this sense, but it only works small scale, it won't ever work large scale, what do I think is best? mutualism mutualism is an anarchist school of thought that essentially is a free market where people get no more or less than the amount work they put in, large corporations would be cooperative labor owned firms, and the establishment of a mutual credit bank would be made, there would be no stock market and CEOs wouldn't make billions while workers go underpaid, there also wouldn't be cases of shipping labor else where to people who will work for less than what they are making, how would order work? all descisions would be made through a direct democracy, this i my choice of government I hate capitalism admit total socialism doesn't work and I acknowledge large scale communism isn't happening

>>312533662
go to the store and by some crack; oh wait, you live in a socialist country that controls the markets.

go to africa you retarded fuck

>>312556277
/b/rofist fellow canuck!

The system in Canada is halfway system between the Western European social-democratic model and the US private-corporate-republican model.

All western countries use hybrid systems that contain a combination of socialistic, capitalistic, anarchistic, and even feudalistic elements. Some systems put more weight on some elements than in others.

I will agree that the Canadian hybrid is a darn good one that captures many of the benefits of the Western European model and the US model and yet manages to avoid some of the worst problems with the Western European and US models.

>>312557777

In countries like Brazil, Argentina, Ecuador, Bolivia and Venezuela, have socialist presidents today.

>>312557753
/b/rofist! lol i was expecting to be bombarded with nigger comments and the like. usualy its the americans or europeans who bring this stuff up on /b/

>>312557204

Maybe if you had proper sentence structure, grammar and punctuation, someone might take you seriously.

As it is, your post just looks like every other trashy troll trash that isn't worth reading.

Just my two cents worth.

I know that systems like capitalism mean that there must be poor people if there are rich people, but I would rather live my life in poverty with the hope of someday becoming rich than to live in mediocrity with the same things everyone else has. No hope for advancement. No escape.

This pic... nuff said

>>312558420
Yeah, well I'm the MA dude into political philosophy slumming here at /b/ looking for good pron and lulz.

When I see threads like this, I can't resist reading them!

Yes! Socialism is bad, because it takes money out of the hands of honest, smart, hardworking people like the woman in the picture.

i think i have something to say about this...........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4Tq4VE8eHQ

>>312536236
i would rather live in china

not going to lie

>>3125425


exploitable?

I keep seeing people saying socialism and communism as if they are the same thing socialism is where the government controls means of production and distributes wealth, this can work but not if overdone the US and canada both have socialist implements but not as many as the USSR did, communism is no inequality no courrency no government everyone works together for the greater good of the community, this is marxist communism though, not "communist" countries have actually been communist, communism can't work large scale though, so basically it won't work and I've already posted but fuck capitalism too it is unfair and leads to failure and inequality mutualism FTW

usually i just lurk in these type of debates

>>312538095
>liberalism
>inequality

sure bro

The error of socialism is to trust the state system as a catalyst for the changes. Society of equality is about equal access to education, health and culture. True Marxism works in the "praxis. " The rest is Stalinism.

>>312537650
China basically is capitalist already, they realized that it is flawed

>>312559317
Yes, most of the posters are trolls or idiots.

But there are sometimes some good arguments.

I'm in Wisconsin where these fucking union cocksuckers are mucking shit up. They parade around with communist symbols and engage in class warfare.

Fuck the socialists. Fuck the commies.

I agree with OP completely.

I'd gladly side with the Koch brothers before I'd side with George Soros.

This, gentlemen, is what we call a troll thread. And you all just fell for it.

We used to kill commies for fun.

-Tony Montana