Firstly, the belief that only philosophy leads to knowledge relies implicitly upon the supposition that reason is superior to both perception and experience. The forms, as we learn in the Phaedrus, exist somehow separated from reality, beyond the realm of ordinary comprehension. There they reside, eternal and unchanging, passively dictating everything that is, was, and ever will be, and all that is within our range of perception is mere shadow, an imperfect image of the truth. Philosophy alone is able to discern these things, but how do we distinguish the truth from incorrect conclusions? Diotima claims that we will know when we reach the forms “…suddenly he will see a beauty of a breathtaking nature…” (210e, pp66). However, this sudden moment of apprehension is suspect.

An opinion is made by drawing upon past experiences. Because of this, it is made slowly, over time, and as we go through our lives, we change our opinions based upon new experiences. However, in Diotima’s account, our beliefs (or opinions?) must change between each rung on the ladder. According to her though, the changes are sudden, not gradual. Is this in fact the case, even with philosophy? Do we not experience the dialectic in the same way as any other thing? Throughout Plato’s dialogues, every moment of clarity is preceded by many changes in opinion. The dialectic works gradually as well then. Socrates’ criticism of the other speeches is essentially that they attempted to understand the truth without the dialectic. They tried to describe truth individually, rather than exploring it with another person. But why is exploring reality with another the only way to the truth?

>>8496850

All of the praises of Eros are radically different from one another, and the nature of every orator reflects upon their views. Phaedrus, being an idealist, sees only the good of Eros, basing it upon the words of the ancients. Pausanias is more realistic, and is able to perceive that Eros can be both good or bad, depending on how loving is undertaken. Eryximachus draws upon his careers as a physician and adopts a broader view, seeing beauty and Eros in all living beings. Each man has achieved an individual understanding of Eros, which, while perhaps not being entirely complete, is not wholly invalidated by Socrates’ account. However, not every speech is wholly individual in nature, most notably that of Eryximachus. Indeed, Eryximachus begins his speech by recognizing that “Pausanias made and impressive start to his speech, but I do not think he brought it to a very satisfactory conclusion. So I think it is important that I should try to complete his account.” (186a pp.27). He sees the value of Pausanias’ distinction between the good and bad Eros, but is able to see that there is more to the truth. By incorporating the understanding of another man, Eryximachus appears to be somewhat closer to the truth than the speakers before him. Even though the dialectic is absent, the opinions of others are still useful. Had the format of the praise been dialectical, would Eryximachus (or another speaker) have been able to fully ascend the ladder?

http://www.fucktube.com/video/34924/cute-asian-girl-fingering-her-tight-hairy-pussy

If the party members had engaged in true philosophy instead of speech making, the beginning of the discussion would still have centered on each man’s individual nature. Socrates though, seems unfettered by the bonds of individual experience. Perhaps this is why his account is second hand (and indeed, the whole Symposium is told through the lens of Appolodorus’ telling a friend what he had heard from Aristodemus), and Diotima’s claims are founded only upon her alleged expertise and wisdom. Common wisdom would seem to dictate that her account would be less reliable than one based upon experience, but this is apparently not so. It seems implausible that even the most abstract reasoning would have no basis in the corporeal, yet somehow it is differentiated from mere imagination. Her account is captivating nonetheless. She claims that the ultimate goal of love is reproduction, in all of its definitions. He who is a philosopher by nature will lose interest in physical reproduction, and will seek to couple his mind with one which he finds beautiful.

Thats all i got, now have some tits

TITTEHS

MOAR TITS

First of all, I do not thing...
Also complete love consist of what types of the seven Greek definitions of love. Can they even coexist in one relationship?

Here are some good quotes...

"Well gentle men, you seem to me to be pretty sober. We can't have that. You'll have to drink." Alcibiades, 213e pp70

"Good evening gentlemen, I'm plastered." Alcibiades, 212e pp69

What 7 definitions of love?

This one's from the Phaedrus!
"Only first, my friend, please show me what it is you have there under your cloak, in your left hand. My guess is its the speech itself you've got there. If it is, be under no illusions about what I want."
Socrates, 228e, pp91, phaedrus

is that a scroll in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?

"Plato is a bore" - Nietzsche

Get the fuck out.

>>217011266
I'd agree actually, I'm not a big fan of Plato's philosophy, mostly because its shit. Regardless of that fact, his work has had enormous ramifications on the nature of western thought, and is essential to an understanding of such.
Unfortunately, we don't get to Nietzsche until senior year, and Im a mere freshman.

We read Aristotle's Physics next though, and that should be pretty enjoyable. Aristotle tends to be pretty interesting. Nichomachean Ethics is some good shit.

My favorite reading that I have done this year would have to be Lucretius though. He gets a whole bunch of shit right, and simultaneously rejects determinism and allows for free will. He had the whole humanism thing down pretty good too. Unfortunately, that asshole jesus had to come along 100 years later and ruin everything for the next 1500 years.

Ancient History PhD student here.
iset_the_fair@hotmail.com
add me on msn/aim (same username)
I would give you a high pass low credit for that so far.
Add me and I will give you the 2 hour recorded lecture on Plato's Symposium from my uni, plus any notes i have.

post an e-mail, this shit is riddled with grammar errors, and as a Phil major I want to see them corrected..

shiningstar9000@gmail.com

Notice how no one is responding to your thread? Do you carry on conversations with yourself like this normally?

pic related, sage worthy

We do God next year as well, that ought to be pretty interesting. The bible will be quite something, and I'm rather looking forward to Aquinas.

>>

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Listening to a lecture about it sort of defeats the purpose, >>217012363, trying to make my own points here, not recapitulate someone elses.

As for the grammar errors, that will come out in the wash. Its just a draft. I have another 6 pages to go at least, so this is only a snippet of the paper. Obviously it will need some pretty heavy revision, especially in the first few paragraphs.

>>217012508

Fuck that account got disabled. jsgoller1@gmail.com, add me on gchat

>>217012518
Call me Diogenes the Cynic

>>217013075
recapitulate? maybe you need an English lesson?
and LMFAO, original ideas in a freshman paper, goodluck with that one

Its three in the morning, I doubt I will be getting much mroe sleep tonight, I might as well talk to strangers on gchat, sure.

>>217013399
Recapitulate
to restate the main points of (an argument, speech, etc.); summarize

>>217013399
Unfortunately, if the paper isnt particularly original, I may not be allowed to return to the college next year.

"Farming and shoemaking are like barnacles on the sea monster of justice"

"Its fine to be afraid of the inevitable bear attack, just dont worry too much about it"

OH NO FORGOT PRON

"Ima get mah SWERVE on" (in reference to Lucretius, obviously)

I can inscribe an icosahedron in a sphere, can you?

I bet you people think the earth orbits around the sun. You fools, the sun, moon, planets, and the sphere of the fixed stars all revolve around the earth!

"I think the real message in Prometheus Bound is don't fuck with Zeus"

In Plato's Symposium I added a comma unnecessarily.

Also, take it to >>>/lit/

"We need to keep in mind that this is a bunch of drunk openly gay pedophiles here"