>implying letters to congress can stand up to visits from lobbyists
>implying individual consumer habits compare to the wants and needs of industry and commerce

fun fact: you know how everyone is all buttflustered about cars and their greenhouse gas emissions? the vast, vast, vast majority of that is from transport. even if every private vehicle was totally green, transport trucks and the like would still be making a big enough dent to care about

>>8053018

OP, what the fuck are you so worried about? Protests come and go. Just wait.

4/10

>Why is it that people feel the need to protest rather than use the proper channels
The two-party system couples with constant gerrymandering as produced a system where most people feel like they don't have a voice in government.

>Do these people not realize that they are the minority?
The entire history of the United States is of minority causes imposing themselves on the mainstream.

>>8053053
Even if every car and transport truck and train and plane in the world was electric it wouldn't change a fucking thing because they still end up burning fossil fuels for the majority of the electricity in the world. They might as well just come up with a coal powered combustion engine.

As for why are they protesting? Because they can. Because the american political system is so corrupt that nothing can fix it now so you might as well inconvenience the people who fucked over the world as much as you can before they ransack their companies and disappear to some foreign country with their fortunes right before the entire world economy runs into the biggest depression it's ever seen.

>(and actually on paper, what a concept!).

Because they can just take the piece of paper and toss it into the trash.

>I feel that the entire US is starting to move towards the mentality of civil unrest and I'm genuinely concerned

Gee I wonder why American citizens are so pissed.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/05/uk-report-base-ip-law-on-evidence-not-lobbying.ars?c
omments=1#comments-bar

http://www.itworld.com/mobile-wireless/176355/how-come-no-one-goes-jail-cramming

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-people-vs-goldman-sachs-20110511

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/08/business/jpmorgan-settles-bond-bid-rigging-case-for-211-million.ht
ml

http://www.propublica.org/article/the-magnetar-trade-how-one-hedge-fund-helped-keep-the-housing-bubb
le-going/single

http://www.newnetworks.com/broadbandscandals.htm

>People just assume things in today's world without actually analyzing any data, etc. It's pathetic... and downright scary in some cases.
Haha you are such a fucking retard. I really hope you're trolling.

>>8053087
I gotta agree with OP.

If you study pop culture as a living (I do), you'd notice there's been a distinct rise in revolutionary mentality that's reflected in our literature, music, art, everything. This kind of thing normally lives on the fringe, but it's becoming the standard view for most citizens.

>>8053018

Because people feel like those things aren't good enough any more... people *did* vote for a major change-up when they elected Barack Obama to the Presidency and the Democrats to congress. They didn't get what they wanted, clearly - and then they voted for Republicans and *still* didn't get what they wanted.

People feel like the system is ineffective or unable to address their problems, and that's why they protest. I gotta say they're probably right in this case.

>Proper channels

Yes, historically the greatest impetus for social or political change has been the weak, poor and ignorant to merely asking their rulers to give them things.

But anyway, you don't need to worry, OP, the US isn't going to change anytime soon-it will just become increasingly impoverished, desolate and pessimistic-when America relinquishes it's world throne, you can rest assured that you'll be as old as you are ignorant now.

>>8053133
>it's
well said, except for that. i hate when I do that.

>>8053123

The US government is supposed to be difficult to change, and insulated from majority rule. It's also supposed to move slowly, and agencies are meant to oppose one another so shit doesn't become a unitary government entirely different from it's roots after an administrative change.

Yes, it's frustrating in many senses, but, what we are seeing now is the inevitability of oligarchy forming -well, the end result of an established and ongoing oligarchy.

No matter what people do, the rich and powerful will find a way to prevail. The only way to escape is to join them-appeasing masses of people lasts only for so long, and is only considered when the masses have something invaluable that the power elite need.

These children playing in the streets are nothing, and their protests are more embarrassing than anything. Their demands are completely ridiculous, their efforts unorganized, and their ideals contrary.

In short, fuck this gay earth.

>>8053164
>These children playing in the streets are nothing, and their protests are more embarrassing than anything. Their demands are completely ridiculous, their efforts unorganized, and their ideals contrary.
That's a cool story bro, but how about this:

You offer some actual advice on what to do besides criticizing being a huge faggot.

>>8053164
You're kind of missing the point. They're all there to end the oligarchy, regardless of anything else. The idea is their ideologies will be put to democratic test after political corruption is dealt with.

OCCUPY THE BASEMENT

>>8053181

They can't end the oligarchy, that's my point. Their efforts are completely futile, and democratic processes are not the end-all, be-all of political thought or necessity. Remember, democracy is just another form of collective decision making, and without a focused ideology or process to guide a group, it will fall apart and eventually create the same monster it sought to destroy previously.

But anyway, that's aside the point; these kids aren't going to do anything worth noting.

>>8053176
I have some advice for the protesters - take a shower, get a job, and switch from Black History to a real major.

>>8053200
So... what you're saying is basically:

>can't change the system
>don't try

Nicely done Gandalf, for all your knowledge you have not wisdom. I am so glad your mindset doesn't make up the majority of the world.
Actually thinking about it now, it kind of does, doesn't it?
YOU are what's wrong with America.

>>8053205
Most of them have tried getting jobs, and that's why they're protesting.

What they're trying to accomplish is fine, it's a worthy cause.
I just think that how they're going about it is wrong. They shouldn't be protesting Wallstreet, they should be seeking to get legislation changed. They should be writing their congressmen, and going up to Washington and speaking.

No one at Wall Street is going to give a shit if they protest. It does nothing. It makes them look bad? So what? Monsanto is almost a legitimate supervillain company and the thing is it's still fucking rich enough to shape global politics because people don't know who they are and don't care. There are companies within companies to the point that the general public, and even most of the legislators, don't even know who the fuck is who.

>>8053224
I agree that protesting is useless, but as we've seen, voting is also useless.

Draw your own conclusions.

>>8053018

>implying writing letters to politicians is going to do anything.
>implying politicians not listening isn't part of what sparked the protests in the first place.

>>8053246
Time for a civil war?

>>8053176

How about not protesting at all, because it won't accomplish anything?

>>8053212

You missed the point . No, I am not what is wrong with America-nice ad hominem-but feel free to try to change the duality of the elite and impoverished that has persisted absolutely throughout all of recorded history by banging on a drum on the streets.

You want change? Too bad, there is no political system that will not gravitate towards an oligarchy, or where the rich and skilled will not seek ends that suit their own rationally-selfish desires. Perhaps as technology progresses, we will see a new form of humanity-but until we're all swapping memories and thoughts in a singularity, we're going to be subject to the previously mentioned.

To satisfy your own foolishness, go read the Communist Manifesto and fap to the part about dialectic materialism or something.

>>8053224

They won't give a shit if they write letters to their representatives, either.

Do you know what rules the world, and controls legislation and policy?

Yeah, it's called money, and the people that have it are going to get what they want (Big Pharma, Prison-Industrial complex, Military-industrial complex, media conglomerates, etc etc)

Unless these people can successfully disrupt industry to a point where the money is at risk, nothing will happen. Change occurs through economics more than it does ideology.

>>8053224
>They shouldn't be protesting Wallstreet, they should be seeking to get legislation changed.
>get legislation changed.

>implying this is ever going to happen with a divided senate

>>8053264
>You want change? Too bad, there is no political system that will not gravitate towards an oligarchy, or where the rich and skilled will not seek ends that suit their own rationally-selfish desires.|

Wow, you must be a big kid to have figured all this out! Like, in grade six, or something!

And, just like a whiny bitch Holden-Caulfield-wannabe, you also think accepting a shitty situation is better than trying to change it. Maybe any kind of substantive change is impossible, but at least causing a ruckus is better than being a dickless twat.

>>8053264
I missed the point? I missed nothing, you're the one who's missing the point.

I'm a poli-sci major at U of T (which starts in about 5 minutes). I am not some stupid kid barking about the inequalities of the working or middle class, I'm just saying doing something is better than doing nothing.

How can you say that this is wrong? Having no political system that will favor everyone isn't the problem, people are the problem- and we both know that so let's get down to business:

The main point is that as stated above: doing SOMETHING is better than doing NOTHING. What happens when you tend to a wounded enemy? He'll take advantage of your kindness, we've allowed this shit to go on for far too long, so now what? We should all write to our congress or friendly-neighborhood senator and beg for change? Yea, that'll boast well.

The people aren't trying to take over, we're just asking for neutrality- or at best, an extreme minority<majority.

>>8053164

I totally agree with you that this particular protest is not poised to get anywhere just yet. People have been maced, beaten, arrested unjustly (or so they say) and NO ONE'S even lifted a finger. Sadly enough, they're gonna have to show that they're a bit more serious before anything actually gets done. If there's a breaking point, they're showing that we haven't quite reached it yet.

Plus their demands are kind of a shit pile because they're hippies that have no clue what they're talking about.

That said, it wasn't always like this, and it doesn't have to be. There IS a solution, its just gonna take a little more effort before we even consider it. Maybe things have to get worse before people get mad enough to actually invest that kind of energy in changing things.

>>8053264
>How about not protesting at all, because it won't accomplish anything?

So they should just go sit back at home and continue to let Wallstreet and the Government rape them up the ass?

>idontthinksotim.jpg

>>8053300

>calls someone a child
>Suggests that dicking around in the streets is superior to facing reality

Uh-huh...

>>8053314
>Suggests that dicking around in the streets is superior to facing reality
Don't worry boy-oh, you'll grow a pair someday. Tell your girlfriend I said Hi.

>>8053314
So I'm supposed to abide by your definition of a "superior" lifestyle choice? No thanks, I'd prefer to keep my testicles.

>>8053264
>No, I am not what is wrong with America-nice ad hominem
>there's that word again
>I don't think you know what it means

In modern capitalism, trying hard to not sound like a tinfoil hat man, it doesn't matter what the common joe says, or what is the best course of action.

Bureaucracy has made it so it is impossible to use the mediums you used and if there is any change it happens after almost centuries after the movement started.

Plain simple, some people require to voice their opinions in a more efficient way.

It won't change anything anyway, so don't mind them.

>>8053113
I remember when there was an increase in revolutionary mindset in the sixties. Remember how nothing good came of that and billions died?

What? You mean protesting and revolutionary thoughts can actually be a vehicle for social change?

>>8053308

I hope you're right, but I see very little changing. I can't help but be cynical when the forefront of this "revolution" is a mass of unorganized hippies. Hopefully a more organized, clearheaded and reputable group forms from this and amasses actual power that can be used as a bargaining chip with the power elite.

>>8053325

>Insults a man's sexual prowess, suggests that he has had sexual realations with said man's girlfriend

17 year old detected

>>8053352
I can't tell if you're being serious or what, but those kids in the sixties didn't do anything either

>>8053264

That's total bullshit man. At the root of things, you're right - some people will always be richer and more powerful than others. However, when that means that one percent of the population controls almost ninety percent of the wealth, that's bad for society.

This being the case, governments enact taxes and regulations to check these tendencies somewhat. The rich get a little poorer but the poor can have food, housing, clothes decent paying jobs and overall decent lives.

Makes sense, right? This is basically what the protestors want, I think. They just have no clue how to actually frame those desires coherently, and the political class lacks the desire or ability to try and do this shit effectively.

>>8053344

America isn't a capitalist nation, it's a mixed-economy/welfare state with some capitalist features.

But, you're correct, rich people don't give a fuck.

>>8053358
I hope I'm right as well- but I'm not. And we both know that. The only right answer here is >>8053344
^ No I'm not that guy.

>>8053352

>Sixties
>Some welfare reform and a bit of racial equality
>Mid 80's
>Financial system is deregulated
>2011
>feeling effects of this system fucking us in the ass over and over and over

The sixties didn't have as much an effect as people suggest.

DELETE ALL THE DEBT
WE CAN DO THAT RIGHT?
COUNTRIES WILL RESPECT US FOR DOING THAT, RIGHT?

What do you mean I cant just say something goes away and it does!

>>8053018
For attention. For a democracy to work you need people to act in unison which wont happen out of thin air. They need to be visible to everyone, not just some aides in a shitty office somewhere.

>>8053381
>COUNTRIES WILL RESPECT US FOR DOING THAT, RIGHT?
About 15% of the debt is to other nations. As long as you leave those alone, they probably wont care much how you handle you shit internally.

>>8053390

Debt is sold in investment packages to wealthy patrons.

The only way you're going to see that debt disappear is if the entire financial and governmental system in the US collapses overnight.

>>8053362
> those kids in the sixties
uhhh... something something black people? SDS, Martin Luther King, Jr., marches on Washington, etc. Lyndon Johnson would never have moved on civil rights had not the civil rights movement brought so much attention, nationally and internationally, and had they not placed so much pressure on the government.

Stupid hippies putting flowers in guns - useless. Millions of people united in organized, nationwide, continuous protest? Slightly more effective.

>>8053404
Did you know the average black family in America makes five thousand a year?

Highly effective.

>>8053412
Holy shit, five thousand, what the fuck am I saying, I meant thirty thousand

I was doing maths on the side, my bad

http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-for-occupy-wall-st-moveme/

>20 dollar minimum wage
>Cancellation of college debt

That sounds great and all, but that's some insanely heavy demands that would be practically impossible to implement, as things are now.

>>8053018
What the fuck. You think voting and debating actually does a shit?

People only listen to force. Always been that way always will be that way.

>>8053429
Yeah, if the movement gets any leadership and momentum, the more ridiculous demands will be scrapped in favour of practical compromise in negotiation.

I imagine that members of these kinds of movements always have stupid ideas early on, it's just that in history these weren't recorded because they weren't immortalized via the internet

>>8053427
>>8053412
That's not a sign that the civil rights movement didn't work. It's a sign that there are other, non-civil-rights issues still at work draining money from the bottom 99% - like the insanely wealthy and corporations claiming that they made their millions all by themselves and shouldn't have to pay into the system from which they benefit so very much.

>>8053443
I totally agree with you, but my point is the end result of a socio-economically segregated society. It may not be on the legal books anymore, but in the grand scheme of things, the sixties kids still didn't do much.

Simple. If you don't do anything people will do anything they like to you. Also, don't call a protest or movement a failure because it did not achieve all of it's goals. No one gets everything they set out to do. Oh yea, and don't confuse being a lazy fuck with being a cynical realist. Actually wait. They are the same thing.

>>8053429
I'm pretty sure 90% of the people protesting don't even know about these demands, and if they did they wouldn't care. The demands are laughable even to the most left-winged person.

>>8053458
>socio-economically racially segregated society

fuck maths

>>8053443

Actually, that IS a sign that the civil rights movement meant fuck-all.

There's a HUGE difference, though, between granting some civil rights to people, and undermining an entire financial system that not only backs the US, but the whole fucking world.

Looks like the guy in OPs pic had no problem spending money on those ridiculous ear gauges and hip clothing; probably has a ludicrously expensive smart phone too.

How can I take this movement seriously when these hypocrites are on the front line?

>>8053443
It's funny as a non-American to see this shit going down.

You guys have always been very proud of the American Dream. Where you can make as much money as you want if you have a good plan and such.

Now this is exactly what screwed you, and the rest of the world, over. Here in The Netherlands you can still make a LOT of money but there are limits. The government will just take a shitload of your money if they decide you made too much.

Very left-winged bullshit, but it works.

>>8053460

Why not try to be the people doing things to the weak and oppressed?

It's not impossible, you know! Reach for the stars, and stomp upon everyone in your way! I imagine by your definition, that's better than being neutral, right?

Speak loudly, and carry a huge dick.

Actually, wanna really make a huge statement? Organize a massive amount of people in critical industries to stop working and apply for welfare on the same day. We CAN change the system by being lazy fucks!

>>8053488
>The government will just take a shitload of your money if they decide you made too much.

Americans will flip their shit over this and call it evil but it's just practicality. If everybody's on the same level in terms of what they can get, then everybody has the same stake in advancing mankind's progress, instead of having your kid die from a disease that was cured years ago because you couldn't find a job.

>>8053429

Those demands are wack son.

They've got their heart in the right place though. College has gotten insanely expensive, but you need a degree for more shit than ever. All the profits on student loans pretty much go straight to the top. To top it all off, more grads are unemployed than ever. Something does have to be done about that problem.

Likewise, something has to be done about gross economic inequality. A 20 dollar minimum wage is the worst possible way to go about it though - that leaves the option of socializing the costs of the increased minimum wage, and could lead to inflation instead of greater equality.

A better call would be to grab a portion of corporate profits/inheritances/other forms of wealth that sit at the top and redistribute those down. At the risk of going all Marxist, this is the value that the capitalists "steal" from the workers, and that's what's gotta be moderated - but *not* stopped altogether because its an excellent motivator and all that good stuff

>>8053488
The problem I have is that, in one short century, we seem to have forgotten EVERYTHING we learned at the turn of the 20th century about workers' rights and reatraining the worst abuses of wealth perpetrated by industrial leadership.

>I'm a fuck-up
>occupy Wall St

>>8053502
>gov't taxes the rich
>reinvests in education, healthcare, and other bottom-up solutions
>America is more productive and competetive
>profit

>>8053516
And only the rich care because they can't buy six Maserati's.

Hey, rich people, why don't you try to value your life in something other than fucking money and we wouldn't be in this mess.

>>8053469

Most people can't, its actually a major issue in my opinion

Try and get over it and judge the issues for yourself I guess

>>8053499

Except people will take on easier, simpler jobs, opposed to striving to become a doctor or engineer.

Though, people in America often try to enrich themselves through becoming asshole business leaders and engaging in artificial financial shenanigans.

Either way, you're right, the rich are too fucking rich.

>rather than use the proper channels (ie voice their opinions to their Senators, Representatives, etc. and actually vote with their wallets (and actually on paper, what a concept!).

Does that shit work? No. There's your answer. Was that hard for you?

>>8053523

Money=getting whatever you want whenever you want in America

Why wouldn't you prioritize that if you were extremely wealthy?

>>8053528
You don't have to make it some communism bullshit. You can still make a shitload of money, just less.

>>8053535
Didn't know the stores in America sold happiness.

>>8053516

Exactly. There's ample evidence to show that all that wealth just sitting at the top is a huge problem for society as a whole, but no one will do anything about it.

Furthermore, people rant about "common sense conservatism" - like being more conservative is obviously the solution, when the evidence completely contradicts that conclusion. I'm all for some common sense liberalism up in this bitch - we've got too much wealth at the top, time to move some of it down.

Blows my fuckin mind

>>8053512
We haven't forgotten. A relentless ideological class based culture war (and real if you count McCarthy and dark FBI bullshit) was fought for 60 years by the neo-con right and their money masters against the progressive left (and socialists, communists, etc etc). The neo cons won when they crowned Reagan in 1982. No one forgot--it was beaten out of our heads, our parents heads and even our grandparents. Baseline: this is not a passive change but a result of a battle between capitalism and everything else.

>>8053246
That's the point, stop relying on others. Do something yourself.

>>8053537

The stores don't, but there are dealers who are more than glad to sell you MDMA

Interesting read in terms of why the American political system can't get shit done today.

>tl;dr democrats are partly to blame because they're completely and totally inept, but the political style of the modern republican party is pretty much without precedent in US history. its good for them holding onto power but terrible for actually governing a country

http://www.truth-out.org/goodbye-all-reflections-gop-operative-who-left-cult/1314907779

>>8053542
But it's not like the knowledge has been scrubbed from the earth 1984 style. It's still available. It's taught to us in goddamn school (which, I admit, is probably a large part of the problem). We are reliving the events of the early 20th century, and right now we're at about October of 1929.

It's only downhill from here, and it's a tall fucking hill.

>>8053588

I hope you're oh-so-wrong, but I know that you're oh-so-right.

I've actually talked to some of the people in the protests and they seem to fairly level headed. They estimate their chances of success higher than they proably are but everyone does that for their own cause. No one goes into something thinking they're going to lose.

Wall St. seems to be one of the targets of the outrage, but a lot of it has to do with politicians in general as well. You'd think getting rid of corruption in the government would be a bipartisan activity. Hell, the Tea Party should technically be right there with all these people if they stood for what they claim they actually stand for.

But hell I'm just a Fascist so I'm proably not the best one to talk about protests.

>>8053087

Or we could have Neobolsheviks and radical right-wing conspiracy theorists come to power.

>>8053736
But the tea party is an unwitting (or witting, in the case of the leadership) mouthpiece for the causes that are actually the worst for them. So they would never support OWS.

>>8053746
>Neo-Bolsheviks or radical right-wingers
>Having any chance at gaining power in a system dominated by moderate centrism
>>8053752
That was the point

>>8053776

I mean by revolution.

There's a lot of radicalism within our youth. They're easily tricked by idealist thought.

>people are going outside and that's scary to me
I hope one of them kills you

>>8053787
>Group of rag tag rebel youth
>Overthrowing a government with an army that can bomb the shit out of them with predator drones

You seriously implying they can defeat one of the largest and strongest militaries in the world?

>>8053746
HAHAHAHAHAHA

cool troll breaux

>>8053018
1) It's not like we haven't tried; Dodd-Franks was at best a less than half measure when you really read into it. Doesn't create the safeguards for something like the 2008 Crash. So if that's all government is going to do. Then it's not working for those who lost their homes/jobs/etc to the crash's fallout.

2) "Radicalization" already occurred on the Right see "Tea Party Movement" which is just the Christian Conservatives under a new name and with a lot more backing from big money. This is the Left fighting back as best as we can.

3) 81% of the American Population agrees with "Occupy Wall St." movement. Do you get that 81% a MAJORITY of Americans. Not a minority, not even a slight majority, but a massive amount of people.

>>8053797

>doesn't understand that the military could turn against the federal government due to the radicalization of soldiers

>>8053831
Obviously someone hasn't been in the military. Have you talked to most soldiers? They take the chain of command very seriously and you'ld have a better time teaching a goldfish to play a violin then making those guys start shooting at the superior officers.

>>8053808
>81%
Source? Also, what exactly are they agreeing with here?

Because voting in the US elections is like choosing whether or not you'd like to get fucked in the ass without lube, or fucked in the ass with lube but with a cock covered in sandpaper.

>>8053853
Yeah, because the chain of command kept up so well in Egypt too... Oh, BTW, y'know that Egypt trained their soliders with the US's?

I don't care what the brass says, I signed on in protection of my people and my country; I will not fire a shot on my fellow countrymen. Ask any member of the Military if he would fire a shot to kill another American who poses no threat to them. I almost bet that the Chain of Command falls secondary to general ethics.

>>8053018
Op, it seems like we're moving towards civil unrest, partially because it gets reported more, and partially because we are. The United States of America, as much as I love them, are not indestructible. Liberty is a fleeting thing, and, paradoxically, people will always willingly let it slip through their fingers when they have it, but fight to get it.

At some point, there will be a second American civil war or revolution. It is unavoidable.

I just hope that when the time comes, the citizenry hasn't been so disarmed that we cannot re win our freedom.

In the end, op, realize that protests, even if disagreeable to you, are their constitutional right. Worry when shit like exclusion zones come onto effect that prevent protest, because that's when you start to see the seeds of genuine civil unrest.

Also realize that a lot of this lately is a result of the people feeling betrayed by their government, the left and the right. The right is capitulating and not protecting us from more government intervention, despite their claims and having our faith and trust. The left has not made good on their claims to fix the economy, solve the healthcare 'crisis', solve the unemployment crisis, and pretty much all the promises they made when they held up, and sold, President Obama as some sort of messiah.

Granted, both sides can't win, but NEITHER side is doing what they promised, and it's making people mad. Given that their politicians already are deceiving them, on reality or just seeming to, nobody wants to use them as an avenue of communication to fix shit. To that, add the attitude of futility most young people have regarding to government.... protests seem to work better, and sure as hell feel better to their romanticized view of the world.

>>8053879
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20114988-503544.html

Occupy Wall St is for this and much more; but hey it's a nice start.

>>8053892
You do know that the Egyptian military was made up of conscipts forced to be there, right? Surely you can see the difference between an all volunterr force and draftees right?

>>8053892

Active duty MP here, seconded.

In the event of orders to fire on protestors, as a federal soldier, I would hand my platoon sergeant or first sergeant my rifle, and either leave, or cross the line and join the protestors.

I will not, ever, fire on American citizens on our own soil, unless in direct defense of myself or someone else.

>>8053899
You have to say this though, fellow Anon; at least one side is TRYING to fix the problem while the other side keeps saying "No"

Dodd-Franks
the Affordable Health Care Bill
American Jobs Act
etc. etc. etc.

>>8053881
Here's a thought... stop voting in accordance with the bullshit two party system.

If people actually voted for the candidates they agreed with, not the white guy or the black guy, or the Democrat or the Republican... we'd see a third party candidate in the white house, and a fuck ton in congress. Probably all mostly libertarian and socialist.

Protests can lead to major legal and social changes. that may or may not happen this time.
Frankly, if it really gets into a 99% vs. 1% class warfare shit will get real ugly real quick.

But the truth is it's the only way out: if it is that bad and we dont fix it things will just get worse until the whole thing collapses

>>8053948
I think it would be more Lib and Progressive then "Socialist" since Progressive tend to be socialists. (see Sen. Bernie Sanders I-VT)

At least we'd have some agreement on Foreign Policy then.

>>8053948

There are no viable third parties in the US. The attempts to create third parties have been pretty well squashed by special interests. And meanwhile, corporate and oligarch cash keeps flowing to the Republicans and Democrats, making sure that no matter who's in the White House, the policies are more or less going to be the same.

>>8053942

Because to the other side, leaving it alone is their solution.

A dude's sick. The right wants to put him on bed rest, and let him recover. The left wants to try experimental surgery, unproven drugs, and pump his ass full of steroids to cure him.

To say the right doesn't want to help is silly, the right wants the government to stop fucking with shit so that the economy and the job market CAN recover.

The cynicism in these threads depresses me... for about five minutes.

Then I remember this is 4chan, and the same reactionary cynicism gets applied regardless if the topic du jour is getting pussy, whether or not a video game will be good, or the viability of changing the american social landscape.

>>8053972
lol I actually had the same reaction to this thread. At first I was really pissed, but then realized that I expected this from 4chan. I can't find the power to hate a child who doesn't know any better, and that's pretty much what 4chan is. Only more along the lines of a single cell organism.

>>8053972

We come here to vent and shit on each other-at least, that's what the /adv/ board is.

We need /r9k/ back-There's nothing wrong with having a slowpaced /b/ with some more varied topics.

>>8053983

>Single cell organism

You're retarded

>>8053962
>experimental surgery, unproven drugs
>The post war Neoclassical synthesis
Shit's been here since the 50's brah

>>8053962
I agree to some of that statement, but here's where I stand...

1) Healthcare
- At minimal should be affordable for even those without a job through some type of program be it a modified MedicAid At best I would hope for Socialised Healthcare similar to the British NHS.

2) I'm fine with letting the Economy sort itself out - but some things have gone horribly wrong in terms of fair regulation their in - without regulation you have those with money not paying taxes and creating massive wealth disparity. As much as I'd hate to hit on those who have success they didn't do it without help at some level from the Government even if it's as simple as having the Fire Department or their workers being educated through Public Education.

The 2008 Crash was essentially Gambiling with people lives, and livelyhoods. when the floor fell out from under it; Those who paid the biggest price had nothing to do with it - that isn't fair. Justice must be served and that's what I want to see happen.

>>8053998
Y'now a microorganism? Unicellular organism? I suspect you're picking apart my post just on the fact that I didn't use "single-celled", but that actually is not important at all.

In fact, way to prove my point, even. Someone really needs to take it upon themselves to utterly destroy this cess pit of a site.

>>8054018

that's some serious buttmad you're displaying there

perhaps you'd be better suited to ham it up with the guys in wall street, instead of sitting at your computer

>>8054018
So... you hate freedom of speech in which people can said exactly what they feel without worrying about being attacked in the real world?

>>8053960

You are aware that there are literally dozens, if not hundreds, of third parties in the United States, right? And that we haven't had a third party president, or enough third party congressmen, to prove whether your cynicism is warranted, or just retarded, lazy fatalism, right?

Stop bitching and hoping for other people to come up with solutions, and fucking take action. You've no excuse when voting, and talking to friends and coworkers and trying to convince them of stuff is the easiest course of action available.

Or, conversely, just sit there and bemoan how evil the world is, how inconsequential you are, and how futile any attempts at change are.

>>8054018

>>8054043
>buttmad

This isn't /v/ my little brotato chip. You can say butthurt here without getting slapped on the wrist by the B&hammer.

The maor you know.

>>8053752

So is OWS. Already you have hardline socialists, feminists, slavery apologists, etc, taking the microphone away from the more reasonable issues in the movement.

>>8054073

but buttmad sounds funnier to me

Anyway, we're all proletarians here, can't we all just get along?

>>8054077
>Hardlines socialists
>Being allowed to speak for a group in America
I'mma need a source for that

>>8054043
>>8054043
>>8054057
>>8054057

>implying anger isn't a virtue

This 'lolumad' trend will be your undoing one day, you apathetic dickclowns, mark my words.

>>8054088
Speak for yourself buddy I'm a Lumpenprole.

The problem with democracy is the rule of the mob.

America is a republic. It was specifically designed to balance the power of an aristocracy with the power of the masses. It was modeled after the Roman government, which in itself was the product of centuries of tension between the plebs and patricians.

The founders did not choose one way. They chose instead to try and design a system where that conflict remains an open discussion. They institutionalized the conflict and made it part of how the government works. That's the genius and the most radical aspect of the American project.

>>8054104
>Anger is a virtue
Ysmault is back the way you cam Atrocitus

>>8054016

For one, most of the issues on the economy side are created by government interference to begin with.

For another, stop being so fixated on revenge, and start trying to fix it and prevent it in the future.

Throwing a few congressmen and CEOs in a country club jail for a decade isn't going to change anything.

The problem when Congress tries to regulate the financial industry is that they tend to fuck things up. Being wholly concerned with a certain injustice, they do not, or cannot, envision the wider implications of their legislation. Whether its because they simply lack real knowledge of how the industry works or whether its a problem inherent in all attempts to legislate such a diverse and complex industry, I can't say.

But look at some examples: Sarbanes-Oxley was created in the wake of the Enron debacle. It sought to address deficiencies in the accounting profession, since it was the firm Arthur Anderson which employed sketchy accounting practices to make Enron's bullshit possible.

So Sarbanes-Oxley, to address that need, required instead of one, two audits of publicly traded companies, personal responsibility of financial officers of all documents in the company, and a host of other regulatory measures. However, the cost of the these measures was not considered. Within the year Sarbanes Oxley was passed, IPO's (initial public offerings) in the US fell by more than 50%. This means that companies who would have started operating in the US, chose instead to open in London, Singapore, or other exchanges abroad.

>>8054195

A more personal example can be found with Sen. Dick Durbin. He pushed legislation which forcibly lowered the cost for merchants and vendors to provide debit and credit payment options. This was done to cut a break for small businesses on "main street."

However, the banking industry is not so robust these days. They cannot just swallow the loss. Instead, they pass the cost to consumers. So, Bank of America, Citibank, Chase, and most major commercial banks are now charging a one-time monthly fee if you use your ATM card at a store. The cost doesn't disappear just because of legislation. It just shifts.

America, as a result of many of these regulations, doesn't create a competitive market with the rest of the world. Just think of the labor market here. As a result of unions simply trying to strong-arm their own interests with no regard for the company, jobs are outsourced. And it works both ways. Places where regulations are more oppressive have outsourced their plants here in the US. Not many examples of that, but there are a few.

>>8054195
>>8054245
I like you, you talk sense.

Too many people don't understand the financial system in the United States. Granted, its a bit complicated but with some reading, some research, and a little time, you should be able to get a pretty concrete picture of how things currently work. Creating a picture of how things ought to work requires more thought, but simply knowing the existence and functions of present financial institutions is fairly simple.

Go down to these protesters and ask them:
How does the Federal Reserve regulate the money supply? What does an investment bank do? What is a swap option and where are they traded? Give me three examples of derivatives. What is an ARM? How do mortgages work?

These are simple questions which can be answered with straightforward, objective answers.

You cannot just reject the system without understanding it. You cannot replace knowledge with indignation or slogans. You cannot see the problem if you don't even know what it is.

The problems of the financial industry are not the problems of your life. The fact that you are not able to get a job has more to do with how you are educated, how you present yourself, and a whole host of personal factors, the least of which include an oppressive class doing its best to cut you off.