Wait what? idk either way, but I'd say that the people who want to wear fur are a lot more self entitled. Shit, they think they're entitled to kill another species to look good. I mean, fur isn't a necessity.

>>4062392
And unless you're a vegan you think you're entitled to kill another species to eat food. Meat isn't a necessity either. I couldn't give a shit about people wearing fur, my only beef is with the killing of endangered species for pelts.

I wonder how many are vegetarian/vegan? I think it's better to have a beautiful piece of fur, passed down through the generations, that you really cherish, then to shove some slaughterhouse McRib down your throat and forget about it two seconds later.

>>4062419
Lets not compare apples and oranges.

>>4062428
not the anon you were replying to, but how is that comparing apples to oranges? i think it's a perfectly valid argument.

>>4062428
Well then let's not bitch about things that are unnecessary while refusing to give up our own creature comforts.

>>4062392
>>4062419
Hey man, plants have rights too.

What's up with all the vegetation hate on /cgl/ today? First some lady was ripping flowers from a garden for her dollar store wedding, and now your oppressing photosynthesizers.

>>4062371
I am vegan but I am totally staying out of it. Why the drama every fucking time? Some of us are veggies so you can pretty much guess our feelings about fur, but then again fur is legal. Us telling off and pointing fingers at the people who wear it is pointless. If you ask me my opinion I will give it. If not, I keep it to myself. Why can't we all maybe just discuss what is lolita or not and leave the ethical debate aside.

>>4062440
Yes, let's not state our opinions. Other people might not agree.

>>4062455
There's nothing wrong with stating your opinion but you don't have to be a hypocritical douche at the same time!

>>4062428
How is it comparing apples and oranges if it has the same result for the animals everyone seems to care so much about?
They die.
And that's it.

The consumption of meat is really not necessary for survival. Of course it's good for your health, but you wouldn't die if you don't eat it.

By the way, many animals that are used in the fur-industries have much better lifes compared to those that are to be eaten.

I like eating animals and if I could afford fur, I'd go ahead and wear it.
I'm rather an asshole without morals than a hypocrite.

>>4062419
You're a fucking idiot, meat IS a necessity. Protein is a vital nutrient, that is found in ridiculously low and incomplete quantities in plant matter. Most vegetarians need to take protein supplements to not be in a protein deficiency. Saying we don't need meat is like saying we don't need fruit, that's fucking retarded.

I don't support the fur trade because of the means necessary to get a clean, nice fur is inhumane in most cases. Meat on the other hand, is not. Food is regulated (in the US), fashion is not.

>>4062475

>meat IS a necessity.
>Most vegetarians need to take protein supplements to not be in a protein deficiency

ITT: faggot who has never heard of eggs or dairy and soy products

Y'all best be trollan :D

>>4062461

>MFW my sister got mad at me for having a fox fur keychain but didn't say shit about the leather purse it was attached to.

You know, I think animals are cool and all, but some fucking people are just really really dumb. Fo real.

>>4062461
You will die if you don't get enough protein. It is vital for life. And how stupid is it to put yourself in bad health because **teh preciouss aminals will die!!!**

Moralfags to the umpteenth in here.

I don't wear fur, and I don't agree with it. Seeing fur stoles with faces and limbs still attached makes me sad, and I'd rather not see that. It kind of ruins a coordinate for me. But at the same time, I know people are going to do what they're going to do, and if they like fur I can't change their mind. So I just don't comment on an outfit if it has fur, because I don't like it.

>>4062480
By eating eggs you're murdering chickens.

I don't understand why people are so against fur but leather isn't argued about anywhere near as much. They're both dead animal skins! I guess people don't care as much if it's not a cute fluffy animal.

Personally I have no issue with wearing fur and leather, or eating meat. I live on a farm so I guess I'm a little bit bias though.

I agree with the anons saying that eating meat and wearing fur are along the same things though because they really are. Either way an animal has died, and meat is not necessary in our diets. I'm badly anemic so meat is very helpful in my diet but I could live with suppliments.

However, saying this, I wish that everyone would just respect the other person's beliefs instead of vegetarians/vegans/anti-fur people going "YOU'RE A HORRIBLE MONSTER FOR KILLING ANIMALS!" or "YOU'RE SO STUPID FOR NOT EATING MEAT!" because at the end of the day, I don't give a fuck how people want to live their own lives.

>>4062484

Beans and nuts are full of protein and fats.

SURE SOUNDS ONISION IN HERE.

>>4062480

Some people refuse to eat eggs, some people refuse to consume dairy products, some people can't stand the taste of soy products.

>>4062487
*Potential chickens.

But since animals don't have souls, who gives a fuck, amirite?

>>4062419
Humans really do need to eat meat. I mean they can survive without it, but we are designed to be Omnivores not herbivores or carnivores. We need both to survive WELL.

Me and my ARD last year did not get along because of this. He said all humans should be vegan, not veggie but vegan; especially pregnant women. Considering I know many a midwife, and a few pre-natal docs, even the pro-veggie ones all say that pregnant women should AT least eat white meat and fish so that the babies develop properly.

*also PETA isn't for the animals, it's for the extinction of animals. *

If fur is ver old, like passed down, I have no problem with it. I have a problem with the farming of animals for their fur. You can get some amazing fur jackets, when I lived up near the NWT fur was common cause it kept you WARMER than the synthetic materials. PETA going in a destroying recycled fur coats and old fur coats is rediculous. If it's a fur coat back from the early 1900's it was well used jeezus

>>4062492
Then those people probably aren't vegetarians.

I support wearing fur, whether it be fur "with limbs" or "limbless", but like
>>4062419
said, endangered species are a definite no-go. Is fur lolita? It can be. I feel it falls more in the 75/25 rule, but that rule is only good in theory anyways.

>>4062487

Do you not know what an egg is?
It doesn't have a chick in it.
It never had a chick in it.
It's basically the chicken equivalent of a human period.

>>4062487
>mfw I am enjoy a delicious omelette made from eggs laid by my pet chickens who are alive and well

>>4062503
*enjoying. Herpy herp typos.

>>4062492
1 - these people are probably vegans then
2 - beans and nuts also have plenty of protein

Hate to break it to you, but the veggie = unhealthy thing is a total myth.

>>4062480
1 serving of egg (1 extra large whole egg) : approx 6 grams protein
1 serving of beef (5 oz sirloin) : approx 41 grams

1 x 1 x 2 sized meat cut = 7 eggs

Yeah, lets eat 7 unborn chickens instead of a tiny portion of meat.

>>4062507
As is veggie = healthier
That's a total myth too

>>4062502
Uhm, I am not the one you are responding to, and i don't care who eats eggs or not, but allow me to explain: The reason a lot of vegans and even vegeterians don't eat eggs is because all the male chickens are culled after hatching since they are not useful to either the poultry or the egg industry [again, I am not preaching, just explaining]. If you look up male chicken culling you will see what some veggies mean. Pretty much that the more the egg industry is pushing for more production, the more chicks are killed for it (which is about half of those born) as males are useless since they don't produce eggs and their meat doesn't sell much. So they just gas or macerate them.

>>4062516
Oops forgot link, in case I didn't explain it clearly:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chick_culling

Fur's very nice, I don't see anything morally wrong with it. In fact, keeping the fur industry alive propagates biodiversity. Just look at all the breeds of rabbit that went extinct when the rabbit fur trade fell out of favor in the early/mid 1900s. I have a few pieces of fur in my wardrobe, all vintage. It's way more economical and green that way. After all, synthetic fur does more damage to the environment than raising an animal for fur.

>>4062461
Bitches don't know bout my b12 deficiency.

>>4062510
Oh, I am sorry I was unaware that this was an efficiency contest. Who said YOU had to do that? If a vegetarian doesn't want to eat meat then they're welcome to chow down on 7 eggs. They can also eat a few portions of beans, tofu, nuts, cheese (which isn't bad for protein), etc.

Herp herp somebody doesn't eat food the way I do they so stoopidurrrrrrr.

Drop the pointless argument: you can be a meat eater and still have a shitty diet for fuck's sake, hell, I am and I have no idea why I'm defending vegetarians. Get over it. Y u so mad that people choose not to eat dead animals and can still be healthy?

>>4062513
Agreed. It's possible to eat unhealthily regardless of your diet anyway, but it's equally possible to lead a perfectly healthy lifestyle with or without meat.

>>4062484
Hahaha you do know shit about nutrition.... beans, nuts, eggs, germ buds, whey... do I have to say more?
If you'd get any health-troubles at all, it would be because of the lack ferric. Where spinach can be your friend.

And if you would've read my post, you would know that I'm not even vegan but rather someone who's against those hypocrites who cry their eyes out about people wearing fur and eat their rumpsteak afterwards.
Or wear leatherboots.
But then again, pigs and cows are not kawaii enough not to die for your clothes, huh?

I don't want to safe any of them.
I try to eat few, but quality meat, because it's better for my health than to eat cheap meat everyday.
I wear leather boots and jackets, and work with leather for my cosplay. I'd work with fur, too, if I ever needed it.

My grandpa is a hunter, my uncle a farmer- I know how animals are shot and butchered and I still don't feel something like too deep pity.

Just let the vegetarians/vegans be vegetarians/vegans.

More fur and delicious food for us normal people.

Plenty of animals die in the combines they use to harvest vegetables.

Who the fuck gives a shit about using animals for fur? If we were to ever seriously endanger a species by PURELY using it for fur, then yeah, maybe wait a while and wait for them to repopulate.
Other than that, whoopie fucking do. It's not as if it was going to do anything else important in it's life if it was born into the fur trade.

>>4062523
Milk and eggs.

Consider the fact that the act of creating orange juice essentially involves the following:

1. Tearing a child from it's mother
2. Skinning it alive
3. Pulverizing its flesh
4. Drinking its blood.

Scientific studies indicate that plants feel pain. (Found here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/notesandqueries/query/0,,-83446,00.html)

Something suffers either way no matter what you do. Leave those of us who want our hamburgers, leather seating and fur stoles alone.

>stuck at airport
>phone is almost dead
>bored as fuck
>woman wearing a full fur coat sits down next to me
>woman sitting across from us makes a face then begins to mutter insults under her breath
>woman in fur coat obviously hears and asks the other woman to speak up
>woman across from us says "As a proud member of PETA you are an appalling sight."
>mfw

>>4062572

>mfw PETA kills more animals than they save

>>4062572

Haha, my college instructor is a very well dressed person who takes her fashion seriously and fulfilled one of her life goals by buying a full length real mink fur coat. Before anyone in our class can object, she said something along the lines of 'Now, I don't mind people who have differing opinions on the fur trade, but if I see so much as a bottle of white-out within a meter of my coat I will smack someone down and make them pay for the cleaning.'

>>4062567
Plants lack a nervous system and a brain. This is the stupidest argument against vegans. Let them be.

>>4062572
You should of informed her that the woman who started PETA is a diabetic. Therefore, she uses insulin, which was tested on animals when finding treatment for diabetics.

>>4062567
>mfw I'm currently drinking orange juice and read this

>>4062567
> Scientific studies indicate that plants feel pain.

How the hell can something feel pain without a brain or nervous system?

I'm fine with someone who chooses not to to wear fur/leather or eat animal products as a personal choice, but I get super pissed whenever I meet people who try and shove what they believe to be right down the throats of others. You're not going to change anyone's mind or have them support your cause by shaming them, insulting them or starting in on bullshit logic like "How would you like it if I skinned your grandmother and wore her as a jacket?".

This one girl I knew was like that and she was obnoxious as fuck. She and I had lots of mutual friends so it was like I couldn't escape the bitch. She actually tried to SCOLD me and tell me my father was a bad person because he was diabetic and used insulin (which was developed through animal testing). It was at that moment that I decided that whenever she came to dinner with my friends and I--which was often--I was always and forever going to order steak, eggs, bacon, ice cream or whatever else I could think of that came from animals and eat it in front of her. She would never say anything to me about it in front of our friends because she didn't want to look bad, but I could feel the beam of her eyes on me the whole time. Shit was so cash.

>>4062589

they have special parts that replace said brain...

There is a small group of AR activists out there who are against PETA and see the secrets behind the doors of that organization: http://www.petakillsanimals.com/

>>4062567
Here are a few more straws for you to grasp at. You seem to be running out.

>>4062567
>>orange juice

...That is the most metal thing I ever heard in my whole life. High five.

>>4062601
But not the nervous system? Which is how sensation such as pain is felt.

>>4062585

Actually, though they do lack what we typically associate with nervous systems, many have a system that allow them to respond to outside stimuli (Google plant neurobiology). Its still unclear whether we can identify their response to pain but mostly because there isn't a clear definition for it, but we can say they feel some sort of distress.

Not trying to start anything, but just wanted to but in with a piece of info I found interesting enough to right a short report for it last semester.

Sorry but it's a retarded argument to say ~keep your opinions to yourself~ when it involves what some people view as a very real life and death moral argument. It's like saying "don't like racism? don't like murder? no one cares! keep it to yourself, stop shoving your opinion down my throat." It's causing very real harm to millions of animals. It is a fact that animals feel pain, that factory farming harms millions of animals needlessly, and that modern agriculture is wreaking havoc on the environment just because some fatties think you need to eat a pound of meat at EVERY SINGLE MEAL to stay alive. So no, I am not going to keep my opinion to myself. These aren't even opinions, they are facts.

>>4062567
>>4062567
PAIN IS THE BEST SEASONING

reading through the thread now, hats off the the girls challenging the mods today.

fashionbabylon is really stepping to them, and vomitrocity too. props to bijoujou for bringing up quality issues.

good going today ladies! keep it up.

I don't see why there can't be a middle ground. I limit my meat intake because I dislike the environmental impact that the cattle industry has. I wear fur, but only vintage. I choose to wear leather because I don't see that it does any more harm than the creation of synthetic materials, and it tends to last longer, creating less waste. Yet I get flack from veggies for not "committing" to being vegetarian, while I get flack from non-veggies for being hypocritical. I just want to decrease my footprint by not eating a burger every other day. If everybody did that--just cut down a little, not go the full veggie route--that would probably make a much larger difference than if only a fraction of the population were full-on veggies.

People who try to force veganism/vegitarianism down peoples' throats are just like religious crazies. And by that, I mean that they should be ignored and possibly beaten.

I don't care what religion/lifestyle you have, just don't tell me I'm less of a person, or I'm going to hell for my equally valid choices. Who knows what you're going to hell for, but I'd rather eat delicious food on my way there.

>>4062619
What about organic meat? Those are free range animals, and have very good lives.

I'm all for the ethical treatment of animals, but I think most of the people who are the most vocal advocates are hypocrites and full of bullshit. It's unfortunate, because they give what could be a pretty noble cause a bad name.
I don't use products that are tested on animals (I think the whole idea is stupid and a waste of money since animals don't often have reactions identical to what humans would, anyway), but I still eat animal products like meat or cheese and wear leather. Even still, there are some foods I would never eat because the animal is endangered. When I eat meat or fish, I try and eat free range. I disapprove of farmed fur, but think other circumstances are okay.

>>4062632
I don't think it's that bad. I read somewhere that eating a diet of mostly free range grass-fed organic meat is actually the most humane diet, because animals do die in combines, etc.

>>4062608

did you even read the article? it's been proven that the outer tissue that runs along the outside most plants reacts to heat, cold and even "pain" it is often compared to the human nervous system.

I would only buy vintage fur. It was dead before my time, what can I do. I dream of the day when I can get myself a fox fur stole with the head on (but not the legs)
I think its more respectful to the animal to admire its coat and treat it as a luxury treasure for all time than to pour paint on it and throw it in the trash. Some people want real fur. The more furs that are wasted like that, the more animals are going to die to keep up with demand. It's conservationism.

>>4062628
This. I wear leather and fur because the synthetic alternatives are often not biodegradable.

>>4062629
I agree. I think extremism in any form is both stupid and dangerous. The funny thing is, most of the people I've met who are "hardcore" animal activists are always the first ones to go on about someone "shoving beliefs down their throat" the moment a dissenting opinion is breathed around them.

We are all flawed. No one is perfect. You may be a vegan, but maybe you're also an inconsiderate bitch.

Enjoy destroying the environment with your synthetic fur factories, moralfags.

^ My only beef (Hahh, you see what I did there?) with the whole subject.

>>4062646
Dear God, please be a troll.

>>4062461
>The consumption of meat is really not necessary for survival. Of course it's good for your health, but you wouldn't die if you don't eat it.

It's actually not better for your health.
Studies have shown that you can be vegetarian and even vegan and suffer no negative effects on your health.
Even athletes and pregnant/breastfeeding mothers can be be vegan with no negative effects.
There is some evidence to suggest vegans are actually healthier than meat-eaters, but not enough to draw a solid conclusion.

Unless you have some strange allergy that stops you consuming other sources of protein, you're not killing animals for your health.
Those animal are dying simply because you like the taste.
I'm not going to deny you the right to do what makes you happy, at least, as long as what you're doing is legal, but don't hide behind the shield of "its healthy". You're killing animals because you get a kick out of it.

This is just another sign of laiferr being a retard and trying to use her mod powers because one of her mod friends don't like fur.

>>4062664

Sorry, but true facts. I'm too old to be a troll anyways.

http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/
http://www.veganbodybuilding.org/home.htm

Visiting from /co/ for cosplay advice and I came across this thread.

You vegetarians and vegans have no idea what wonderful foods you're missing out on.
Plus, you know...animals eat and kill other animals too.

IT'S DA CIRCLE OF LIIIIIIIIFE~

>>4062487
Not really...the eggs bought at supermarkets aren't fertilized by roosters; a hen can lay eggs on its own.

>Backs up to wait for pro-life people to speak

>>4062675
It's compared to a human nervous system not because of the same kind of "pain" each organism feels. They compare it because it ACTS like a nervous system.

>>4062669
I'm allergic to nuts and have a mild allergy to eggs. Pretty much all protein supplements I've tried to use as a substitute contain one of the two.

Saw a lady get on our bus with this huge ass fur jacket. Looked like a fucking BAMF, or as if she could freakin BUY my entire family. Thought she was pretty cool.

Fur's is fucking comfy too. Stepdad had his pet rabbit skinned when it died when he was a kid. Keep it on a sofa back to rest my head on.

People can sell fur on the comms for all I care.

Uh, guys? Hate to tell you this, but some people are vegetarian because they don't like the taste of meat. Also, lets not even start on pescetarians.

As a vegetarian myself for the reason above (it runs in the family), I'm not stupid enough to say that OMG VEGETARIAN IS THE MOST HEALTHY STOP EATING MEAT NOW LOLOLOLOL because we're omnivores. We're set up to eat meat (even if considerably less than people eat these days). However, if nothing else, farming is pretty bad for the environment.

Also, hating on vintage fur coats is like blaming modern day British for the Empire. It exists. Destroying it isn't going to bring back the animals. Also, animal fur is warmer than any synthetic material. Some people need that stuff to survive. I'm not sure I agree with animals being farmed for fashion, but honestly? I can't see any harm in wearing vintage, save for that it might encourage a come back in the fashion.

>>4062681
And meat eaters don't know what wonderful foods they're missing out on. Because, once you become vegetarian/vegan, you have to search for other foods and one consequently discovers a wonderful world of food that they would not have known about otherwise.

>>4062669
>You're killing animals because you get a kick out of it.

Yeah, I also love getting cats and dogs from the shelter, taking them home and then subjecting them to all kinds of torture. Their screams crack me up. Staring at me like I'm going to save them, LOL!

>>4062681
...God dammit, I meant /ck/.

Fucking touch screen.

Dudes.

The brains of carnivores are larger than those of herbivores because brains thrive on the specific proteins and minerals found in meats. Carnivores also have to be intelligent enough to hunt down their meals, whereas herbivores... don't. It's right there on the ground.

With all of the death that's in the world, and with the natural part that death plays in the cycle of life, hell YES I'm going to eat mean. And if I could, I would eat human meat. There are too many babies anyway, why let all of that tender meat go to waste?

>>4062699
I am not even vegetarian but your "science" sucks dude XD

>>4062694

We get the best of both worlds because we can enjoy our animal products and vegetarian alternatives.

>>4062699
Er, yeah, not exactly. There is a theory that (over-simplifying here) says that vitamin B12 deficiencies can lead to brain shrinkage, but theories like that don't take all variables into account. Veggies today can get all their B12 easily from fortified cereals and soy milk, yeast extracts (like marmite) or just supplements.

>>4062475
>Most vegetarians need to take protein supplements to not be in a protein deficiency.

You're thinking of Vegans, they can't eat dairy or eggs or anything that comes from animals. Vegitarians can get protien just fine.

I heard somewhere that PETA wanted Ben and Jerry's to use human milk for the safety of the cow. I'm fully aware that a lot of dairy farms aren't in the best of condition, but if you don't milk a cow it can get sick...

>>4062715

Shit like this is the reason why no one takes PETA seriously.

>>4062714
Uhm actually most vegans get enough protein too. e eat tofu, seitan, beans, and lots of other stuff that is rich in protein.

Sure some idiot vegans may starve themselves but if you know hoe to eat right WITHIN your specific diet, there is no problem. Same goes whether you are an omni, a veggie, or a vegan. All of them can suffer from deficiencies and illnesses if they don't eat right, but there is a way to eat right no matter which diet you follow.

>>4062669

I wouldn't say I eat meat for health only-
it's a protein-source whose taste I prefer to beans etc.
I said it's good for your health- not that it's BETTER than eating beans.

I eat meat and I won't stop it.
Again, not the biggest amounts and of trusted origin, but not because I'd care so much for the animals- just for the sake my own health and the climate.
I never claimed I'd do it for health only, but the combination of ferrum, fat and proteins mixed with the nice side-effect of a good taste.

I could say I get as much of a kick out of it, as you do, playing the moralfag.

>mfw both sides hate me

>>4062685
Pro lifers don't care about animals because they don't have souls.

>>4062715

No it won't cause the calf will drink it. A cow only produces milk to feed her calf, just as humans only produce milk to feed their babies.

>>4062685
The problem is that those hens aren't going to live forever, so once in a while they need to fertilise a batch to get new egg-layers.
So yes, there is the problem of roosters being born in the egg industry and being killed, although it's not nearly as common as a lot of anti-egg people would have you believe.

UMAD WE HAS SUPERPOWERS?

>>4062733
Wow, really? I didn't realize that. Knowledge is power.

>>4062715
Haven't you learned by now PETA is just a troll agency? They don't give a shit about animals dude, they just exaggerate things and put on shows to shock the public. Its all about shock value.

>>4062715
>>mfw I am eating a bowl of Jamaican Me Crazy and thinking about it being made with breast milk

>>4062740
THIS. All the vegans I know hate PETA as much as they hate fur-farming XD

>>4062723
>Sure some idiot vegans may starve themselves

Ugh.
This. So much.
There are so many idiots who say "I'm gonna save the animals!" and all they do is cut meat out of their diets without picking up any other source of protein, then wonder why they're getting sick.

Anyone that supports PETA is a jackass and does not care about animals. Pic very related.

>>4062794
No one supports PETA. I am vegetarian and I despise them. Everyone I know thinks they are just trolls & attention whores

>>4062669
>There is some evidence to suggest vegans are actually healthier than meat-eaters, but not enough to draw a solid conclusion.

The issue with this is that quite often vegetarians/vegans lead a healthier lifestyle (ie. exercising more, taking care of themselves) as they feel their diet is healthier. This means that it's incredibly difficult to prove one way or the other which diet is better or worse.

>>4062801
This! I think veggies actually hate them more than omnis, cause they make us all look like nutjobs! And every discussion there is about vegetarianism or fur or whatever, someone who is pro-fur and pro-meat always brings up what PETA does and then we have to try and distance ourselves from it. I have found that people sometimes reply to me with how PETA is wrong and what they say and I am like "but I don't care about what Peta does or says". I don't support them, I don't agree with them, they do not represent veggies in any way, they are just lunatics and everything they say they say it to attract publicity.

>mfw this thread

>>4062715
>but if you don't milk a cow it can get sick..

Cows only produce milk after they've given birth. Dairy farms impregnate the cows every year to make sure that they keep producing milk. Using human milk for ice cream is ridiculous (factory farms for humans?), but I'm just pointing out that cows don't need milking throughout their lives.

Vegetarians/Vegans = You don't like it when people think you're stupid for not eating meat.

Meat eaters = You don't like it when vegetarians think you're stupid for eating meat.

Both groups just shut up! You sound like goddamn bible bashers.

>>4062805
Also they'll often watch their diet more closely.
People who eat "anything" tend to just eat anything. When you start focusing on things like making sure you get enough protein you'll often end up with a healthy, well-rounded diet.
Of course there are exceptions on both sides, I'm just speaking generally.

>>4062794
Have you heard about what PETA's founder wants done with her body when she dies? She's insane!

>>4062839
WHAT WHAT I WANNA KNOW.

>>4062844
http://www.peta.org/features/Ingrid-Newkirks-Unique-Will.aspx

>>4062844

I have heard her say these things herself on a documentary.

Go to 1:28 to hear the best of it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDkvTAQe2oo

>>4062850
Whatever floats her boat...it'll just weird people out more.

>>4062801


I wish this was the case...my mother actually supports them and doesn't believe me when I tell her what they really do.

I hate how the emphasis is on REAL fur. Who cares?

What about REAL leather bags - should we ban those too? What about any garments made in sweatshop conditions? As long as we're policing the items based on our ethics...

>>4062493
I honestly have nothing wrong with fur or leather as long a the rest of the animal is being used too. I think it is wasteful to kill an animal to only harvest one part of it.

I think people should eat less red meat simply because of cow farts being so bad for the environment.

Holy fucking balls that woman is a lunatic. The comments below it are even worse.

>>4062850

Aww man, as if there wouldn't be enough trash thrown away at Hockenheim.
It's Michael Schumacher btw, not 'Shumacher'.

With the sweatshop arguement, people seem to forget that the united states had sweatshops not to long ago, with child labor and long long work hours. Yes, it sucks that it isnt regulated and it isn't good for American businesses...but i think if China is ever going to get on top this might be a necessary evil

oh egl_comm_sales

where a mod can make a dumb decision and instead of "whoops our bad" it turns into a gigantic production

PETA is a terrorist organization. I spent 40 minutes on their website and somehow came to their GOALS page on it it said something about ridding the world of all domestic pets, and livestock. They also want to shut down all zoos. all in all they want to rid the world of animals 100% because they utilize too many precious resources.

I belong to a better group. People Eating Tasty Animals

Just for the curious anons who can't access the entry.

Can someone tell me how this all started? I've been gone for awhile. Who posted the sale? caps? link?

>>4063030
That girl who sells ratty overpriced wigs on etsy. She made a post with a bodyline JSK with replaced lace, a fake fur H&M jacket, and a full fox fur stole.

idek

I'm too tired to recap all of this

Basically aonele and yumi wanted it removed (yumi is kown, btw, for being OMG FUR IS THE DEVIL!! on the German forums) and people were calling bullshit because it works under the 75/25 rule - also these two mods are notorious for asking people to remove accessories/items that don't fit the OTT sweet cupcake vomit aesthetic. Aka, classic style offbrand boots? "NOT LOLITA, REMOVE" Offbrand cupcake vomit purse? "It's okay~"

and now laiferr is basically ensuring the anti-furfags will ban it from the community because she has no damn common sense.

>>4063103
Except that currently the poll is in favour of keeping fur on the sales comm

>>4063115
By a handful of votes. Who knows, laiferr may wait until the anti-fur side is winning to close it.

>>4063123
laiferr isn't against the fur though

>>4063151
No, but she's butthurt that people are calling her and mod decisions into question. b

this has now become a bitch and whine about the mods without getting off your lazy ass to volunteer to help post. ready, go!

Wow. It's arguments like this that remind me how many dumb fuckheads there are in the world.

Wearing fur is apparently okay to these people as long as it doesn't LOOK like a dead animal? That should prove that we are dealing with morons, and the whole topic should be dropped.

>>4063103
whut, I've never heard of aonele or anything she really does till this point, she's kinda one of those behind-the-scenes mod, I thought. Link/caps of her asking people to remove classical stuff but allowing OTT sweet stuff please?

>>4063173
hey laiferr you're back on /cgl/ again??

>>4063180
we're all hypocrites on some issues or another, I don't really see what's wrong with that? To me it seems like they're at least willing to come to a compromise instead of banning anything fur altogether.

I'm no PETA wannabe, I firmly believe that death is a part of life, and an animal's death should be made the most out of. I don't believe in inhumane killing of animals for their pelts, but that tends to be fairly rare these days, I hear, and doesn't apply to vintage furs.

However, I'm very creeped out by pelts with faces and limbs. It's kinda creepy.

BUT. Just because I'm creeped out by it, doesn't mean I have to say it's not lolita, and that no other lolita should have the opportunity to buy or sell it. That would be imposing my preferences on someone else, whom I don't even know, likely, and most likely will never see. It's just stupid.

>>4063184
nice try retard, but no points for you :)

>>4063196
Oh wait - passive aggressive smiley face, use of retard as an insult... dingdingding! Elerronyar! How's the Miss EGL USA title working out for ya? Put it on any resumes?

>>4063128
Thanks! I was wondering what in the world ignited this whole lolita fur debate.

>>4063205
lolol it's sad that you're so stupid you can't see that there are lots of people who find your constant whining and nitpicking to be pathetic. :'(

okay what is so hard about saying: "Please tag any real fur items that work within the 75/25 rule or the whitelist with the tag "real fur." in the future"? Anyone? Anyone?

And why is laiferr telling other people they're making a big deal over nothing when... she's the one that made this big mod post and poll?

>>4063225
lolol it's sad that you're so fat and ugly the AP designers didn't stop and praise your blubbery crying ass in the lobby :(

Thread was tl;tr but as a non-judgemental vegetarian I just have to say...

I dont give a rats ass what you eat. I do take issue to inhumane killing of animals only for their fur. Leather (mostly) is from cows killed for meat. Fur bearing animals are not eaten, the rest of their body is thrown away.

Also fur traps catch and kill birds, cats and dogs quite often. These bodies are thrown away.

Fur is beautiful, but there are faux furs that look and feel almost exactly like the real thing. I dont see the need in wasting so many lives for something we can make with plastics *shrug* Heck, I'm a moralfag and I wear fake fur all the damn time.

>>4063232
I think you're confused because I don't wear AP. Oh, you're not confused. You're just stupid. My bad. It's not nice to tease people with mental disabilities so maybe I should stop picking on you since you can't help it :'(

Chastity belts are historically tied to Lolita too. I should post my gently used belt for sale then kick up a whine fest when the mods disapprove. What do you think?

>>4063251
YES.

>>4063251
Yes, because a chastity belt is totally the same as a fur fashion stole. Yep.

God you're an idiot.

>>4063239
Yes, because a petroleum based product is MUCH more beneficial for the planet's ecosystems.

aha I love this community

>>4063256
It was an accessory that was historically worn, just as fur stoles were. Chastity belts fit with the Lolita aesthetic because they promote chastity and innocence.

It's the same thing.

>>4063269
TROLOLOLOLOLig

>>4063269
Yeah but chastity belts are another issue. I mean seriously, would you wear a second hand one? Eww! Way too many diseases you can get off those things.

>>4063280
Not if it were properly cleaned.
Use the logic that people are using on that poll. Fur stoles were historically worn, as were chastity belts. Why can't a chastity belt be considered Lolita but a fur stole is?

(NOT a link to the Chinese Animal Skinning)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zJTNOxV4Qg

>>4063258
Making a point like that is moot, plastics make up much more of our consumer culture than just fake fur.

>>4063299
Wow, do we really use every cow for all this stuff? That would be awesome if we did. I sincerely doubt it though. I was raised vegetarian by my mom. I mostly do it for comfort reasons now, IE meat makes me throw up/I can't stand the taste it's too different from anything I've ever had. My main moral reason is the green house gasses that cows fart all the time. People are usually baffled by in in that I'm not a vegetarian that goes "Noooo! Fink ov tha widdle animals!!11!" For me it's just habit and comfort, and yeah it would be nice if we didn't have so many farting cows.

>>4063325
>baffled by me*
derp

>>4063306
No, it just means you can't admit your a materialistic hypocrite whore.
Humans could survive perfectly well without all but the bare essentials, but they don't WANT to because of all the cool shit they wouldn't be able to have, and using wider consumer culture as an excuse is bullshit.

>>4063293
Because a chastity belt has nothing to do with fashion. I know you're trying to be all edgy with this here, but c'mon now. Common sense.

A fur stole can be worked into a lolita outfit. It has been used by brands, it has been worn with lolita outfits for years. It's not "lolita" by itself, but it works under the 75/25 rule.

Chastity belts have not been made by brands, worn by brands, or otherwise promoted by anyone in the fashion. You can wear one with your lolita outfit, but undergarments that haven't been used with lolita (petticoats, bloomers) can't be sold on the sales community. Just because you *can* wear it with lolita doesn't mean it falls under the rules. A fur stole, a pearl necklace, can all fit into the lolita aesthetic.

If brands start making chastity belts to show off like bloomers? You might have a centimeter of an argument.

>>4063336
Dohoho spewing that in /cgl/, the queen board of buying useless and expensive crap?

>>4063341
speaking of pearls, are we still allowed to kill oysters? They're not cute and you don't wear their faces/limbs...

>>4063341
I can make a pink cowboy hat with lace and bows on it. Does that make cowboy hats Lolita?

I also have never seen a brand selling a real fur stole with limbs and head attached. The ones that brands do put out don't count because they're very obviously fake and cartoony.

The bottom line is that fur stoles are not Lolita. They can be worked into Lolita but that doesn't make them Lolita.

I'm not taking sides but I'd like to see the logic behind this and not just "omg modz sux why we can no have furz!"

>>4063346
You don't have to kill oysters for their pearls, I believe. Plus pearls, if I remember correctly, is actually a waste product of oysters? I heard oysters make pearls because they form the pearl substance around debris that seeped into their shells, or something like that. Course I could be totally dead wrong about it, lol.

>>4063357
I don't think I have seen a brand putting one out with a head/limbs but they have put out stoles and jackets made of real fur.

>>4063357
inb4 samefag, but I totally agree with this.

>>4063361
Actually when you get the pearl out, most of the time they die.

>>4063357
Where is anyone saying they ARE lolita by themselves? Just that they can be worn with lolita, fit the aesthetic, and work under the 75/25 if they aren't whitelisted/brand.

>>4063369
>>4063357
The argument isn't really should we allow real fur, the argument is more to do with why are we allowed faux fur and not real fur. If you ban real fur, they should ban faux fur too as it is not a matter of ethics, it's a matter of aesthetics.

VEGETARIANS AND VEGANS:

Unless you are eating ONLY 100% CERTIFIED Organic produce and products, you are doing nothing to help sustainable farming, and thus doing as much bad for the environment and THE PLANET. re: Humans and cute fluffy animals you love and aren't eating.

>>4063374
This, thank you.

What's the difference between a fake fur stole (without limbs) and a real one, aesthetically? Nothing.

>>4063372
Several commenters on the poll are saying that they are Lolita, no ifs ands or buts.

>>4063393
they're saying that they're lolita in that they should be allowed to sell on the community, because how the poll is worded is are they lolita and should they be allowed, or are they not lolita and should be banned.

>>4063384
Well, aesthetically real fur does usually look a LOT better.

>>4063370
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071026065008AA7v6hO

If they ban real fur from the sales comm, they should also ban faux fur that's not from a whitelisted brand.

>>4063423
Well you learn something new every day! I stand corrected.

>>4063423
I wonder how of those "may" survive, actually DO survive.

>>4063483
I was wondering that while I read it too. They use "does not necessarily die" a lot which made me think that a good percentage still die.

>>4063491
>>4063483
>>4063451
>>4063423
No one cares about oysters. They're not cute and fluffy!

>>4063491
I think most of the freshwater ones are reused a couple of times, then they die from exhaustion, whereas the other ones will pretty much die after 2 pearl harvests.
But no one cares since shellfish have no faces, therefore no feelings :P

>>4063495
But ARE they LOLITA or can they just be USED FOR Lolita.

>>4063504
That's kind of depressing. I'm starting to feel bad for the oysters and muscles

>>4063509
I only use VINTAGE pearls!! :D Oh who am I kidding, I buy cheap shit from China, and replicas... I can't afford real pearls OR fur.

Reading this thread, all I can think of is this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkVfvaujg3g

>>4063523
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zJTNOxV4Qg

>>4063539
That already got posted here >>4063299

>>4063521
Oh don't worry, China has cheap fur! The pain involved in skinning an animal alive keeps it cheap, wheras american, canadian and russian companies actually have to have ethical-as-possible standards and meet certifications or face heavy fines/boycotts ect. They also have to pay their trappers a survivable wage. Just buy Chinese fur instead of North American and you'll be fine.

>>4063446
And pearls.

And anything made in China.

And leather.

And anything lime green.

>>4063562
Definitely lime green. That's the most unethical! Why are we discussing something boring like fur when we could be discussing lime green things!

>>4063554
sweet, pain has never been so profitable!

Just remember guys, even if they don't allow you to buy or sell furs in the comm you can always go ELSEWHERE and buy it. Just because something isn't allowed there doesn't mean you can no longer use it in lolita at all. They are not the end all and be all of what is lolita or not. I will still love fur and wear it with whatever the hell I choose to regardless.

>>4063585
Well yeah, lol. But it's just easier to put it up on LJ to sell to a community that might buy it. It'd be like if they banned wigs - yeah you can resell it elsewhere but the market is right there.

>>4063601
Wigs should be banned. They're plastic which is petroleum and chemically based, which is harmful to multiple ecosystems.

Can we also ban things like diamonds and other precious stones because of the links to african warlords while we're being all moral? I feel bad for the cute fuzzy foxes AND the human who are murdered for engagement rings.

>>4063616
Only if we ban clothes made from synthetic materials too.

>>4063623
That aren't Organic, unbleached Cotton

>>4063630

Isn't that just Mori Girl then?

>>4063639
I think Mori Loli is the only ethical kind of Loli

>>4063645
Not if it's made in a sweatshop!

>>4063647
Well we all know Taobao isn't Lolita, it's Ita.

>>4063630
brb, growing my own cotton

>>4063686
You are going to need a hell of a lot of well rotted poop and water. Cotton is hard to grow without chemicals.

>>4062496
>when I lived up near the NWT

Woah woah, completely off-topic but where abouts did you live? Yellowknifefag here so I'm honestly curious.

>>4063696
Silk is out if it involves cultivation of silk-worms... that cruel and unethical, so that leaves... Linen.

Where does one buy fur anyway? Looking at fur coordinates has set ablaze my imagination.

>>4063761
Anywhere. Secondhand goods stores, stores that deal in fur and leather goods..

>>4063734
>>4062496
another yellowknifefag chiming in, holy shit small world

>>4063299
Thank you for not posting up one of those vids. Also if you've ever watched any animal skinning done by Chinese it's very very cruel. Poor things. I don't care too much about factory killing (Raising is another matter) but seeing a poor, skinless creature squirm without anesthetic for several hours is pretty fucking horrific. Why do animal farms skin animals without killing them?

Beaver, muskrat and raccoon are some of the most abundant furs produced in nature. Other beautiful wild furs include marten (sable), fisher, fox, coyote, badger, opossum, lynx and bobcat.

Without regulation, muskrat, beaver and other species can overpopulate. Stressed and malnourished, large numbers then succumb to starvation and disease. Controlled trapping can help to maintain stable, healthy fur animal populations.

Most of the world's most beautiful wild furs are produced in Canada, the United States and Russia.

Wild furs are abundant; endangered species are NOT used in the fur trade. This is assured by strict state or provincial, federal and international regulations.

The fur trade uses only a small part of the surplus produced by nature each year. This is what biologists call " sustainable use of renewable resources"- a principle that is now endorsed by all major conservation organizations including the World Conservation Union and the World Wildlife Fund.

Beaver, muskrat and other fur animals also provide food for many aboriginals and remote communities: animals not used for food are returned to nature to feed other wildlife through the winter.

With new designs and processing techniques, wild furs are more lightweight and versatile than ever-ideal for today's active lifestyles!

According to the Ministry of Natural Resources Ontario, Canada trapper's contribute to more than $40 million raised annually to fund fish and wildlife conservation and management in Ontario through licence fees and royalties paid to the province.

Fur bearing populations are monitored by the Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources. Many species like raccoon, beaver and coyote are near record levels of abundance.

Thanks to excellent conservation policies, Canadian furs are abundant and absolutely no endangered species are used.

The Fur Trade contributes more than $2 billion annually to the North American economy, including more than $400 million in exports.

The North American fur trade is committed to responsible treatment of animals. Trapping methods are strictly regulated by provincial, state and territorial wildlife departments.

An International agreement signed in Canada, the United States, Russia and the European Union establishes scientific protocols for humane trapping standards.

Many Canadian families rely on beaver, muskrat and other fur animals for food as well as income. When you buy fur, you support the livelihood and culture of more than 1,000 farm families across North America.

A fine natural product, fur is biodegradable, renewable resource-it can even be restyled as fashion changes.

Most mink and foxes are now produced on farms. Chinchillas are also farm raised, as are special breeds of sheep (e.g., karakul or persian lamb) that are used for fur.

Farmed mink and foxes are fed by-products from our own food production system. In addition to fur, these animals provide organic fertilizers, fine oils for leather protection and other products. Nothing is wasted.

Farmed fur animals receive excellent nutrition, housing and care. This is the only way to produce high quality of fur required by the market. Farmers who didn't provide excellent care for their animals would not remain in business for long.

Farmed mink and foxes are produced in accordance with recommended code of practice developed by Agriculture Canada in consultation with producers and humane societies

Farmed mink and foxes have been selectively bred for more than 100 years to produce a wide range of beautiful natural colors

The Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) exposed the international fur industry's ugly secret: the widespread slaughter of companion animals—domestic dogs and cats—for the manufacture of clothing, accessories, and trinkets. Investigators witnessed firsthand the brutal slaughter of domestic dogs and cats in China and other Asian nations. Many of these animals are raised in cold, unsanitary breeding compounds. Some are strays. Others are obviously pets who were most likely stolen. And the killing methods are grisly. Dogs—German shepherds, chows, and mixed breeds—are bludgeoned or bled to death. Cats are often strangled by wire nooses.

copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste copy paste

>>4063836
Yes? It's more efficient than typing it out.

Go to be, Libra, it's past your bedtime.

I love how people say you can make up for a B6 deficiency with fortified vegan food/vitamin pills.

Guess what? The ONLY source of B6 is from animals.

And yeah, as someone mentioned before, lots of cute little animals get caught in threshers when famers are harvesting vegetables.

Also as someone said before, fake fur and leather aren't environmentally friendly.

TL;DR: "Vegans" can go suck a fat one.

>>4063836

wheres piplup? i miss her

>>4063837
>Go to be

Why the slur? You seemed a bit tired.

>>4063886
You mean B12. :o

I foresee loli_secrets on this....xD

>>4063909
Oh whoops. Yes.

Also nthing everyone who says that if real fur (even from burando) is banned from the sales comm, fake fur should be too - if it's REALLY about aesthetics and not ethics.

>>4063904
If this gets us a separate board from cosplay, I would be soooo happy.

>>4063886
Why the scare quotes around "vegan"? Pretty sure most vegans don't wear ANY kind of fur or leather. This whole comment is just a lot of "well someone gets hurt so why even bother doing anything." See how that logic is lazy?

Vegetarians make me laugh. I don't eat meat myself, I don't like the taste, textures, smells and such. But I do eat fish.

Went to Ireland on the ferry with some family and a family friend, with her daughter. Her daughter is a vegetarian. She started going on about how much healthier it is, general 'Holier than thou' attitude about it all. I was then asked why I don't eat meat(Her going: SHES NOT A REAL VEGETARIAN SHES FAKE SHE EATS FISH, when I didn't call myself one in the first place. I just said I don't eat meat but do eat fish) and explained.

All was fine and well, until the 'I'M SOOO HEALTHY BY BEING A VEGETARIAN' girl decides it's time for a smoke. She's 17 or 18, decided that she's a vegetarian due to it's health benefits, and yet smokes. I picked her up on this strange philosophy and she mumbled something about being healthy on the outside but not caring about the inside. I think, something along those lines.

Really though, it's why I can't stand most, it's people like her that really ruin it for others who are a vegetarian because they don't want to eat meat and fish, for whatever reason, yet don't make a massive fuss about it, and really don't give a shit if other people eat meat or not/realise it's not their place to force their belief system onto other people.

I know the main point about the thread is fur, but there was a few mentions of vegetarians so I thought I'd vent my frustrations out.

>>4063932
Read the post again, there is no such thing as veganism because Vitamin B12 is only available from animal sources. Even vitamin pills get it from animals.

Well, unless they want to forego B12 entirely. Then I guess they could be vegan if they do absolutely everything else right.

>>4063955

So vegans have to ingest 1/1000 of an animal every year in order to survive. They still avoid eating every else they possibly can that's taken from an animal source. They are still morally superior to you (and I'm not even vegan so I can't claim any kind of moral high ground)

It's like saying "there's child slavery some places in Africa, and I probably have supported it in my lifetime (protip: you have) so I might as well just give up and buy a plantation"

>>4063969
No, it just means quit bitching about the people who happen to like cotton.

>>4063955
Actually neither animals nor plants produce B12 aka cobalamine, it is produced by bacteria in the intestines of animals, and if you don't have those normal flora present you must get it from eating animals that due.

>>4063969
You think it's just Vitamin B12? All those "vegan-friendly" items and synthetic products have been approved for public use through animal testing. By being vegan, they are killing and torturing animals. They're not "killing less", they're just fobbing off the dirty work to someone else, then get all high and mighty in the face about it just because they're not doing it for themselves.

>>4063969
And unless you are part of the **sustainable farming movement**, your vegan-ism is doing MORE harm to the global ecology than the meat industry.

Fuck Off.

>>4063969
How are they morally superior if there exist ways to humanely kill and eat animals? It's not like they were going to be immortal.

>>4063973
the cotton in this scenario comes from child slavery. So yeah, I'm going to bitch about it.
>>4063978
there are lots of products that have not been tested on animals and vegans actively seek them out. strawman. Even if they didn't, vegans still kill less than meat eaters, who also happen to use animal tested products and usually don't bother giving a shit.

>>4063976
Well yeah, but those intestinal scrapings have to come from animals.

Incidentally, is bacteria vegan? Or is veganism limited to not consuming anything from the animal kingdom? And even then, are there phyla that are okay? Are insects off-limits, even though they have almost no brain to speak of? Do you really care that much about carmine, beeswax, and silk?

>>4063980
I said in my post I wasn't vegan. Please explain how vegans are harming the environment more than factory farming?
>>4063984
How many meat eaters give a shit about that, though? Vegans are de facto superior to the vast majority of meat eaters. For the tiny group of meat-eaters, who in this argument most consist of strawmen, who only seek humanely raised meat, they are morally equal. Not that hard.

>>4063988
I sure hope you're wearing undyed-unbleached hand-woven organic cotton my hypocritical friend. And that you buy only locally grown certified organic produce.

>>4063988
Strawman. Some of us meat-eaters do give a shit about animal suffering, and try to make the slaughtering process as humane as possible.

>>4063996
I think it's more reasonable to just assume veganism means lessening the harm done to the members of the animal kingdom. You can't really avoid killing bacteria, and they don't seem to have nervous systems or any concept of pain or death anyway, so who cares? Most vegans seem to care about bees so beeswax is no good and neither is honey.

>>4063996
No, it is only limited to things that are cute and cuddly.

As cute as bugs are, no one is going to care if you eat mealworms and grasshoppers.

Same reason why pigs are being used to make heart parts without any antigens for transplants. No one really cares about them.

Also do not due

>>4064001
for the third time, I am not vegan. Yes, I am a hypocrite. At least I admit it, instead of trying to tear down people who are doing good in an attempt to make myself feel better. And I don't consume harmful goods needlessly because "why bother?"

>>4064016
Many vegans avoid products made with certain dyes that come from ground up beetle shells. So no, it is not limited to "cute and cuddly" animals - I think you're confusing "vegan" with "dumbass moralfag lolitas." Either way it's a strawman.
>>4064005
Don't steal my strawmen.

>>4064021
Why are you allowing yourself to be a hypocrite?

Vegan/moralfags who are against fur and meat are hypocrite retards. If they care about their pressiouss animulz so much, they should kill themselves to save them.
Just by being human and living normally, the veganmoralfag disturb and kill as many animals as the average guy.
-Shelter
-Electricity
-Them shiny ipods
-Their fucking vegetables
-Everyfuckingthings
All of these disturb and kill animals. And that's not counting plants too! The veganazis are your usual retarded activist who refuse to see the bigger picture, conveniently ignoring that everything in life have it's place in the food chain.

Over and out.

>>4063997
Conventional farming, with its heavy use of manufactured fertilizers and pesticides (agrochemicals), has a greater negative effect on the environment than organic farming which can be sustainable.
In conventional farming, soil tilth is destroyed by the use of heavy machinery, which compacts the soil. Very little organic material is added to the soil in conventional farming, decreasing the amount of nutrients that are naturally produced. Instead, inorganic nutrients are added directly to the soil in the form of synthetic fertilizers, which are manufactured from raw materials. These fertilizers are often applied at an excessive rate. As a result, they pass through the soil to contaminate groundwater and flow along the surface of soil to pollute surrounding bodies of water, threatening native species.

>>4064027
Because they like to feel morally superior while still enjoying everything that the people they're looking down on have.
ie. Plastic, cheap fruits and veggies and crap made in china.
By moralizing they don't actually have to do anything to improve the conditions of the things they're bitching about.

>>4064052
Ah, organic. Another bullshit term. By the way, if you are eating organic, you're eating animal products - rotted abbatoir waste is used as fertilizer because ammonia manufactured from the Haber process is considered "chemical" and "not organic".

>>4064052
Do you even know what "synthetic fertilizers" are made of? they're made with the Haber process. It's literally out of thin air. It has FAR less environmental implications than any "organic" fertilizer does, and do you honestly think organic farmers don't overapply fertilizer.