>>2702234
So, Maguma thread?

pee stain goes where?

because nobody else can cosplay black characters. And white people don't usually cosplay "asians".... Anime characters are most commonly white, not asian.

have given presentations on manga to Western audiences many times, but regardless of the particular themes of my talks, when the floor is opened up for discussion I am invariably asked the same question: “Why do all the characters look Caucasian?” You may have asked yourself the same question.

I answer that question with a question of my own: “Why do you think they look Caucasian?” “Because of the round eyes,” or the “blonde hair,” is the common response. When I ask then if the questioner actually knows anyone, “Caucasian” or otherwise, who really looks anything like these highly stylized cartoons, the response may be, “Well, they look more Caucasian than Asian.” Considering the wide range of variation in the features of persons of both European and East Asian descent, and the fact that these line drawings fall nowhere remotely within that range, it seems odd to claim that such cartoons look “more like” one people than another, but I hope you will see by now that what is being discussed has nothing to do with objective anatomical reality, but is rather about signification.

A key concept in semiotics is that of “markedness” and “unmarkedness,” elaborated by linguist Roman Jakobson in the 1930s. An “unmarked” category is one that is taken for granted, that is so obvious to both speaker and listener it needs no marking. A “marked” category, by contrast, is one that is seen as deviating from the norm, and therefore requires marking. Well-known examples in English are the words “man” and “woman.” “Man” has for a millennium meant both “human being” and “adult male human being.” The word “woman” comes from a compound meaning “wife-man,” and denotes the relationship of the signified to that “unmarked” category, “man.”

>>2702234 Why are black people so determined to only cosplay black people?

Nigga, you just went full retard.

In the case of cartooning, of course, we are dealing with drawn representations rather than words, but the concept of “marked/unmarked” is every bit as salient. In the case of the U.S., and indeed the entire European-dominated world, the unmarked category in drawn representations would be the face of the European. The European face is, as it were, the default face. Draw a circle, add two dots for eyes and a line for a mouth, and you have, in the European sphere, a European face. (More specifically, you would have a male European face. The addition of eyelashes would make it female.) Non-Europeans, however, must be marked in drawn or painted representations, just as they commonly are in daily conversation (e.g., “I have this Black friend who...”).


The grotesque racial and ethnic stereotyping of former decades has been largely purged from the mainstream, but only to be replaced by less offensive, yet nonetheless stereotyped, signifiers. Non-Europeans living in a European-dominated society absorb these standards themselves, and not only are continuously made to be aware of their “otherness,” but adhere, out of necessity, to the Eurocentric system of signification.

If an American of Asian descent wants to create a children’s book intended to build self-esteem among Asian American children and educate other children about Asian American experiences, she must first make sure the readers know that the characters represented are Asian, and so, consciously or not, she resorts to stereotyped signifiers that are easily recognizable, such as “slanted” eyes (an exaggerated representation of the epicanthic fold that is often, but not always, more pronounced in East Asians than in Europeans or Africans) or pitch black, straight hair (regardless of the fact that East Asian hair can range from near-black to reddish brown, and is often wavy or even frizzy). So it is that Americans and others raised in European-dominated societies, regardless of their background, will see a circle with two dots for eyes and a line for a mouth, free of racial signifiers, as “white.”

Japan, however, is not and never has been a European-dominated society. The Japanese are not Other within their own borders, and therefore drawn (or painted or sculpted) representations of, by and for Japanese do not, as a rule, include stereotyped racial markers. A circle with two dots for eyes and a line for a mouth is, by default, Japanese.

It should come as no surprise, then, that Japanese readers should have no trouble accepting the stylized characters in manga, with their small jaws, all but nonexistent noses, and famously enormous eyes as “Japanese.” Unless the characters are clearly identified as foreign, Japanese readers see them as Japanese, and it would never occur to most readers that they might be otherwise, regardless of whether non-Japanese observers think the characters look Japanese or not.

Because they end up on a /cgl/ shitty cosplayer thread if they don't.

When non-Japanese characters appear in a manga in which most characters are Japanese, that character will be differentiated from the others with stereotyped racial markers of some kind. For example, a character of African descent may be shown with pronounced lips, frizzy hair, and shaded skin. A European character may be shown with a pronounced nose and jutting jaw.

Such is my argument, but many find it unconvincing. They insist that manga characters are unmistakably “Caucasian,” and that the ubiquity of Caucasian characters in manga and Japanese popular culture generally are clear indicators of a desire on the part of Japanese to identify themselves with the European West, rather than the Asian East. Indeed a number of Western scholars have suggested that Japanese today harbor just such a desire, that they deny their “Asianness” and try instead to identify themselves with the Western, “white,” Center. The curious fact that Chinese characters appearing in manga are often portrayed using the same markers of “Asianness” (slanted eyes, straight black hair) common in Western representations may seem to be irrefutable evidence of this assertion.

Yet such assertions are rife with flaws. First of all, they seem to take domestic concepts of ethnic identity that have developed in the politically charged context of an ethnically diverse society, such as the U.S. or the U.K., and apply them wholesale to Japan, a foreign society, as if the Japanese were just another “minority” vis-a-vis a European American “majority.” For Asian Americans to assert their “Asianness” (regardless of whether or not such a trait actually exists) may be politically meaningful in the context of U.S. society, but it certainly does not follow that Japanese, or any other Asian people, should, or meaningfully could, embrace a similar identity.

Second, the notion that the Japanese harbor an inferiority complex vis-a-vis the White West seems to me based on the largely unconscious assumption that non-Western peoples envy the West, and more specifically on the American fantasy that everyone in the world naturally wants to be American. Of course, the scholars and intellectuals who note such tendencies in Japan do not applaud it; on the contrary, they cluck their tongues and wring their hands and wish loudly that the Japanese would shun the temptations of the West and remain true to and proud of their heritage. But the eagerness with which they seek out evidence of a desire to be “white,” and the stubbornness with which they ignore evidence to the contrary, suggests to me that their apprehension of social reality is heavily filtered through an unintended ethnocentrism.

Finally, the evidence of such an inferiority complex is hardly conclusive, and there seems to me to be as much evidence against it as there is for it. For example, the case of stereotyped representation of Chinese in manga can be explained without concluding that the Japanese identify themselves with the White West. Setting aside manga in which stereotypes are used to get a laugh, or to assert a racist viewpoint (and that does happen from time to time), racial stereotypes usually appear in manga only when the stereotyped character is a minority within the story. A Chinese character in a manga set in Japan is marked, through stereotyped visual markers (and often speech habits, too), so as to distinguish her from the Japanese characters, who are in the unmarked category.

Interestingly, in a manga in which Chinese or European characters are the majority, such as a story set in China or Europe, majority characters are generally drawn exactly as Japanese characters would be drawn in a manga set in Japan, without any racial stereotyping at all. In the context of such a story, the Chinese or European characters are not Other, and markings of Otherness would be superfluous. The artist would make the foreign setting obvious through names, clothing, customs, architecture, and “props,” rather than burdening every character with stereotyped racial features, which would limit her ability to distinguish characters from each other, and would also make it difficult for readers to identify with protagonists. Furthermore, if a Japanese character appears in such a story, she will usually be marked visually as Japanese, although usually only by black hair and eyes. (Readers are often expected to identify with such characters, and more exaggerated markings would interfere with that identification.)

Racial markings in manga, therefore, are generally relative. By contrast, an American comic book set in Japan or China would most likely portray every character with stereotyped racial signifiers (and probably with contrived accents, as well). It may be that Westerners, accustomed to non-relative, standardized racial markers, are baffled by the Japanese system of relative signification, in which a single artist may portray a Chinese character one way in one story (set in Japan), and very differently in another (set in China).

It may be true that Japanese are, on average, often ambivalent towards the West, towards America, and towards all things not Japanese. And, yes, they are often sharply critical of their own society, and may sometimes look to other societies for preferable alternatives. But in these respects, they seem to me to be pretty much like any other people. It seems to me there are far more interesting questions to explore, and so I will say no more on the subject, though I have no doubt that some of my readers will be reluctant to drop entirely the question of whether or not the Japanese want to be “white.”

Asians looks much more like manga/anime characters to me than whites. Even European inspired fantasy characters like Link/Zelda look more Japanese to me than white. Zelda cosplayed by whites feels more natural to me due to the setting, though.

>>2702398
I agree with pretty much everything you said here, I just wanted to throw a thought out there. The technique you describe of leaving out stereotyped features or just the circle, dots and line face is used both inside and outside of comics as a form of masking the reader into the comic by generalizing the features as much as possible. It's technically supposed to be the same in the West, but, as you said, because of racial tension from the past it is assumed that by most people that that face is caucasian instead of the all inclusive character it should supposedly be representing. This is probably why western comics that take place in other countries make use of stereotyped features (one that comes to mind is The Adventures of TinTin) because it the main character, who is usually a traveler from the West anyway, is the main character visiting another country and thus you are supposed to relate with them and not the people of the country. Your take on how Japanese comics represent storylines outside of Japan is interesting though, I've never noticed it.

>>2702398
>>2702394
>>2702384
>>2702376
>>2702369
>>2702365
>>2702356

>>2702398
>>2702394
>>2702384
>>2702376
>>2702369
>>2702365
>>2702356

What

im black. i meant to click on /ck/ but..

i dont cosplay cause im not a faggot

k later dudes

>>2702487
>meant to click on /ck/
>not a faggot

right.

Blacks don't cosplay non-black because then they are just "Black Goku" or "Black Sasuke".

You never hear about that "White" goku cosplayer. Maybe it would be nice to just show some character love without being type-cast.

>>2702234

I've seen that guy cosplay nothing but Asian characters.

And the occasional monkey. What a self-hating negro!

>>2702910

Last I checked, Sasuke and Goku weren't fucking Negroes.

>>2702910
Whoa, surprisingly good point.

>>2702910
I never thought of this. Cosplay is so racist.

i think it's retarded for black people to cosplay white people. i'm pale as fuck and i wouldn't cosplay even a sun tanned character because it's stupid.

and white people cosplaying "asians" (anime characters) is different.
it is totally ok because most anime characters have WHITE skin. and totally unrealistic faces so who fucking cares if the people has oh so azn eyes?

>>2702234

obvious troll is obvious..

>>2702356
>>2702365
>>2702369
>>2702376

tl;dr this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKTvFhRbBt8

>>2702374

Really?Most of the shit cosplayers I see posted in those threads are white land whales.Just sayin.

>Why are black people so determined to only cosplay black people?

Because 99% we will get made fun of for not looking like the character more so than a fatty in a yoko costume. Honestly I don't see why people are so protective of fictional characters. Cosplay is just about having fun and showing love for the character, not looking like them. With that said, this is my favorite squall.

>>2706893
can't tell.... if ... want....

>>2706893
>*Because 99% of the time
>*not about looking like them.

A few typos

>>2706893
this... is hot.

>>2706893
I'd hit it, male or female.

I think blacks make the best/most attractive cosplayers because they know they'll get more shit than whitey if they're inaccurate/ugly/fat. OPs pic not related.

I would say manga and anime characters look Caucasian because of the history of manga and anime as an art medium, which was influenced by early American cartoonists.

>>2706893

I remember this Squall at AX, she was also with a Cloud if I recall correctly. They were both ridiculously hot ;A;

>>2706893

wtf..... the first black cosplayer i would fuck and it's a girl....

>>2706893
Her Grell Cosplay is pretty awesome too.

>>2707086

...

>>2707086
the only thing i have a problem with her grell is that she should have plucked or waxed them brows off.... not shave...

>>2707086

Is that the same black bitch in that Playboy Bayonetta video? God, she's a skanky ugly ho.

>>2702238
This is actually full of win! She's gorgeous, much better than 90% of the white Jupiters I've seen.

>>2707086
>>2706893

Shit is so cash.

meh, black cosplayers have to work alot harder to be appreciated when they are doing a character that does not match their skintone.

i'll be perfectly honest and say that i'm all about smart choices of cosplay, if your too fat for the character, don't do it, if your too black for a character.. don't do it.
i avoid obviously asian characters from anime, and i'm not going to cosplay a black character for the same reason i say that a fat cosplayer should not do a thin character, as that's hypocritical.

if your skin tone is a good middleground, then that gives more choices, just like if your a normal built person, you can try the thinner and the thicker characters..
a rail thin skinny white kid cosplaying armstrong from FMA is just as bad a choice in what character to play as any of the other possible combinations of hambeast yokos, and black rock lee chars.

How am I the first to post her?

I do believe maguma is in no parts black.
in fact I can see why there is a great deal of hate
around him,decent props (card board)huur duuur,
may be gay ,and groupies like a jackson 5 concert.
I'm short,Maguma:Tito or maybe latoya jackson of cgl...
like mike but with out the underage B&.

I've seen a black dude cosplay as Piccolo.

>>2707086
Wow. Excellent Grell.

I don't think I've ever seen a Grell that I thought was good before. Well done.