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Magic exists.
>>
Say it in red, OP.
>>
>>81396512 (OP)
my dick is magical
>>
Okay, Beatrice, you got me. Magic is Real, you've destroyed my entire belief system, I'm crushed.

C-Can I go home now?
>>
Yes, I know.
Why else would I so diligently pursue becoming a wizard?
>>
Prove it, faggot.
>>
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>>81397140
>>
>>81396512 (OP)
Magic is fake
Cliffs are real
>>
>>81396512 (OP)
Kanon's Penis sure is real right OP
>>
Say it in red.
>>/rs/Urafagit.
>>
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>>81397140
Easy. Look at this little girl enjoying some food.
>>
>>>/r/magicisreal
>>
>>81397549
I have a bad premonition.
>>
>>81397582
It's a bit seedy, isn't it?
>>
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>>81397549
And now the food is filled with creamed cheese! TAA FUCKING DAA!
>>
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>>81397616
10/10, I love you, Anon.
>>
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>>81397576
BEATO!
>>
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>>81397140
>>
>>81397479
>>81396512 (OP)
Say it in red OP
>>
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>>81397742
>>
Without love, it cannot be seen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdhRwADrkYA
>>
>>81397616
Is this what I think it is? Because that's real similar to the art from Euphoria.
>>
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Uuuuuoooooohhhhh!!! Stop fucking with me!!!
>>
Small bombs
>>
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>>81397969
What are you talking about? This is magic.

It is Euphoria, you dumbfuck.
>>
Oh god I've missed this.

This too >>81397336
>dat rain
>dem surreal backgrounds
>I don't know what's real anymore

Sigh. Fucking Ryukishi,
>>
When is the next game coming out?
>>
>>81398186
She looks so happy.
>>
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>>>/r/Magicexists
>>
>>81398186
Oh, you sure told me. How dare I now know every single CG from every single VN ever. I'm such a dumb fuck. I'm ashamed of myself, honestly.
>>
>>81398222

Next game? You mean rose gun days?
>>
>>81397549
Who the fuck holds a knife like that?
>>
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>>81396512 (OP)

Time to rectify that.
>>
cackle cackle cackle
>>
>>81398329
I-I do.
>>
>>81398329
It's the proper way.
>>
>>81398268
Fuck off
>>
>>81398329
That's how I hold a knife.
How the fuck do you hold a knife?
>>
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>three separate attempts to use /rs/ red
>all three fuck it up
>>
>>81396512 (OP)

Bitch, I will cut you.
>>
>>81398484
Wouldn't you consider that maybe you should fuck off? You seem upset. Like you have a lot of shit pent up inside. Maybe you should talk to somebody about what's troubling you.
>>
>>81398554
>>>/r/implyingifuckedup
>>
>>81398592
Okay
Fuck off
>>
>>81398493
I bet he holds it in his fist like an American.
>>
inb4 anti-mage
>>
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Let's get this seacats thread fucking started: let's start the speculation.

Give me an theory on beato's board 2:
>culprit
>twilights explained
>no motive needed because seacat logic
Hardmode: no yasufags
>>
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>>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sn_RzbJ80p8&feature=share&list=FLDEPBP7ianQUUfHYlomP93A
>>
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>>81398268
You could have easily looked it up with the exhentai button.
>>
>>81398799
You want a theory that doesn't involve yasu? How? Whether she's the main culprit or not, it's still essential.
>>
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>>
What actually happened to this Anime. I remember watching the series online and the ending was fucking bullshit and left so many plot holes? In fact. Was that even the ending?
>>
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>>81398799
>culprit
Battler
>twilights explained
Battler
>no motive needed because seacat logic
Battler
>>
>>81399002
>watching the series online
>anime
Leave
>>
>>81398933
Main culprit. Some of the games are relatively easy to explain with yasu doing the killings. Whether you believe or not the real fun is in finding the "implied" killers. For example, ep 2 rosa

We can believe yasu to be a starting point for the murders with a plan to kill everyone if it makes sense for you, and therefore forgetting the heart
>>
>>81399002
Go die.
>>
>>81399002
No, you've got it all wrong, Anon.

The anime was fake, which is why it was so shit. If you want the real thing, just read the VN. Also,
>obligatory hate for streaming
>>
>>81398945
What a cute face.
>>
>>81398799

> culprit: Yasu is the culprit in all the gameboards, taking all the adults as accomplices, with one of the aunts being the main accomplice who she promises to give the gold if they help her with the murders. On episode 2 the main accomplice is Rosa, she helps Yasu covering the murders and misleading everyone, only to be betrayed by Yasu when the bomb explodes to make the catbox complete, no one must escape alive.

> twilights explained: I can't remember well, but the thing in the chapel was Yasu reuniting all the adults on the chapel and shooting them all. Rosa is the one alive, and from there on she just follows Yasu's orders.

> no motive needed

Yasu had a shitty life, that's all.
>>
Tsuioku wa, zankoku ni....
>>
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>>81399182
>>
>>81399106
>forgetting the heart
Stop throwing that phrase around. And I'm not saying that yasu has to be the killer, just saying it's almost a fact on all the gameboards.
> explain with yasu doing the killings
I don't even think Yasu was the culprit in most of it, just that she created the shitty situation.
>>
>>81399155
Fair enough.
>>
>>81399300
Is that suppose to be insulting? I already know I'm a loser
>>
>>81399222
>believing yasu to be a culprit
B-but i said no yasu
>>
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>>
>>81399232
AZAWARAU

HA HA HA HA HA HA
>>
>>81398703
Not all of us hold it like we have down syndrome.
>>
>>81399287
okay, anon, you have heart
I guess all gameboards can be explained with yasu with no connections to the rokkenjima-prime whatsoever. But what's the fun in accepting the original explanation?
>>
>>81399470
YAMI WO KIRISAKU
>>
>>81398554
>>>/r/shutupcat
>>
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its time
>>
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I want Erika to tie me up and abuse me.
>>
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>>81399593
YAMI WO KIRISAKU
OH THE SIRE
>>
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>>81399593
Aye aye Captain.
>>
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>>81399684
Are you me?
>>
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Dammit guys I can't resist the urge to reread Umineko much longer
>>
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>>81399786
There are a lot of erikafags
>>
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You guys said this show was terrible but so far I've just watched the 3rd episode and finding this pretty immersive and enjoyable - so much questions to be answered, an intriguing 'who dunnit' plot, and closed room mysteries abound!

Though I suspect you dislike it for very justifiable reasons and the show will turn to ass somewhere further down the line right?
>>
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>>81399823
And not enough Erika material.
>>
>>81399846
No answers.
Ever.
>>
>>81399503

IIRC What happened on episode's 7 tea party is the closest thing to rokkenjima prime.

The adults actually solved the epitaph and got into some scheme to get the gold all to themselves and the murders happened, the only thing that is never revealed is who started the mass murders (very implied that kyrie was the one who decided to kill them all, given Ange's reaction on episode 8). Seems like Kyrie failed shooting Yasu, Yasu overheard Rudolf confessing to Kyrie about Battler being her real son (hence why Beatrice knows that on episode 4), she escapes the gold room and helps battler escape from Kyrie via the tunnels, while Eva, who killed Kyrie, escapes to Kuwadorian and got alive from that, since she didn't knew about the underground tunnels.

Yasu confesses everything to Battler and they both try to escape the bomb, but Yasu is too terrified of the outside world so she decides to commit suicide by jumping from the boat, and Battler tries to save her, but nearly dies in the process. Yasu dies, the bomb explodes.

Eva keeps everything a secret because she'd be on jail surely and her husband's company would end, and to keep Ange safe from the truth about her parents (episode 8 says Eva loved Ange the most).
>>
>>81399863
I really wish there was some figs of her
>>
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>>81399846
>>
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>>81399953
Figs you say?
>>
>>81399807
No need resisting. It only gets better at the second read when understanding the small implications
but man it takes time
>>
>>81399994
That was a custom, I've looked it up
>>
>>81399846
The show adapts approximately 40+ hours of material into 10 or so. They cut out fucking everything important. Plus it only adapts 4 novels out of 8.
>>
>>81398799
Really want to come up with a nonsense solution involving split personality Rosa and lovers' suicides, but I'm away from my notes right now so I don't even remember what I'm supposed to be solving. Sorry!
>>
>>81400081
Actually the Umineko anime doesn't cut out anything important because it leaves the Ange flashforwards intact and that's the only part of the series that matters.
>>
Remember when Beatrice loses everything? I couldn't continue Umineko after that.
>>
>>81399933
...Yes. Are you me? The guy with the right theory
>>
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>>81400037
And the closest we'll ever get to actual fig.
>>
>>81399933
>Implying Battler didn't have a panic attack on the boat and capsized it, and drowned trying to recover the gold.
>>
>>81400189
Episode 5 had one of the best arts, can't say the same about ep 6
>>
>>81400167
Which time?
>>
>>81396512 (OP)
Tulpas Exist
>>
>>81400022
Diff anon here. I only got to like 25% through Ep4 before losing my save, and by the time I'd reinstalled the game I'd been spoiled about the Yozzo solution and the 1998 authors and so forth.

But I feel like I ought to start again from the beginning, take plenty of notes, and see what I think about all of it.
>>
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>>81400435
Not this thread again
>>
>>81400172

It's also very implied by the flashbacks on episode 8 about Eva's diary that Yasu never wore Beatrice II's dress during the murders, the person that appeared before the adults on the golden room was actually Shanon, who was the one who sent the letters with the help of Maria.

She only wears the dress during Kinzo's sick ceremony of making himself feel better about raping his daughter, but after that she switches from Kanon to Shanon during the murders.
>>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH__p_N0XEE
>>
>>81400466
Do it. And find your own answer.
Only the lazy believe Ryu-troll
>>
The Shkanon theory IS....impossible.
>>
>>81400553
How? And it's not DID
>>
>>81400601
>not getting the reference
>>
>>81400601

Don't bother, let them believe whatever they want. Now I see why Ryukishi had the repeat the same thing over and over again, some people were too retarded to get it.
>>
I just watched cowboy bepop movie and it had golden butterflies all over the place. Coincidence?
>>
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>install Umineko vanilla
>horrible graphics
>play up to chapter three
>find out about umineko ps3 graphic patch
>install, delete old save, play again all again
>it only plays to chapter one
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
>>
>>81400761
>playing disgusting patch with soulless art
>>
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>>81400761
>horrible graphics
>>
>>81400207

It was already said that trying to get the gold ingots was useless, because it was extremely hard to exchange them for cash, and the only person capable of that was Krauss. They even said that only with the credit card was enough.
>>
>>81400684
>implying ryukhisi's answer isn't just metaphor for twisted hatred that can in right conditions dominate the soul but in fact isn't even the point of the story when actually culprit is tragic heroine consisting of multiple traits and by viewing only the negative traits rapes the heart of the story
>>
>>81399846
The anime isn't really "bad", but the VN is way much better and detailed in terms of plot.
>>
Have anyone here read Our Confessions? It implies that only the families of the accomplices received those bank cards. In EP4 we see that Ange also received one of those. Does it mean that Yasu planned something in advance with Kyrie and Rudolf (or maybe Battler)?
>>
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>>81400806
>>81400858
You guys trolling, right?
>>
>>81400601
>not DID

But it very clearly is. I work with DID on a daily basis. Shit is pretty close.
>>
>>81400897
The anime isn't really "bad". It's pure shit.
>>
>>81400940

She was already thinking of sealing the island on a catbox two years before the murders, when she found out the truth about her body and Kinzo (explained in episode 2's prologue). So yeah, it's very likely that she planned that beforehand as some form of consolation for the victim's relatives, since she was already certain she was going to kill everyone.
>>
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>>81400991
>>
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>>81401108
>>
>>81401104
How could she not find out the truth about her body way before that by just looking down while naked?
>>
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Virgilia is my Witch.
>>
>>81400940
Our Confessions a shit. It can't be considered anything more than a similar game to beatos boards with limited viewpoint focusing to the act of creating a mystery and no actual connections to truth whatsoever

Haha, where is your god now, yasufags?
>>
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>>81401170
>>
>>81401061

DID is when you switch personalities even in the most unexpected moments, nothing of that happens to Yasu. She just has a very vivid imagination, and the point of all of her personas is to imagine she's a different person than she is because she hates herself, hence the meaning of furniture. The first Beatrice, Gaap, is actually her imaginary friend, so there's that. It's all a product of her imagination, and she's pretty conscious of that.
>>
>>81400725
Nope, it's magic.
>>
>>81401189
Good choice if you like mackerels, my friend
>>
>>81401061
There's also a misconception that both shannon and kanon were actually on the island that day too.
>>
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>>81400991
Your lack of empathy for these poor victims of boxing glove hands syndrome only proves your goathood
>>
Should I "watch" Higurashi?
Is it as good as SeaCats
>>
>>81401181

She was isolated from other servants so she could never know. She had her own room and all, no one could find out. She thought it was normal, and the servants did all they could to keep her thinking she was a normal girl. Not really her fault if she didn't knew her penis was destroyed as a baby.

>>81401209

And yet some people don't get it, just look at rosafags, how embarrassing.
>>
>>81401329
>Not liking classy ladies.
I would drink tea with her.
>>
>>81401412
Read it.

Whether it's worse, as good, or better is >opinions
>>
>>81401434
>implying
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSMCLfX7hpQ
>>
>>81399823

Fuck, the manga looks really nice.
>>
>>81401329

But she's a granny

>>81401342

But they were
>>
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>>81401409
>>
>>81401253
I always thought that rather being insane and cursed with split personality yasu was always aware of herself as a person. Basically meaning that she didn't ever believe herself being multiple persons and all of the witches and personalities were only imaginary friends. I find this theory pretty interesting.

Then, question of the day: did the other servants know kanon/shannon nonexistence?
>>
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>>81399992
>>
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>>81401487
>>
>>81401434
I don't get what's there to get while ryu himself has slaughtered the mystery and given answers to every goat. That is somehow sad
>>
>>81401495
They weren't, it wouldn't make sense either. How the hell would Shannon trick the family into thinking both were there every day of her life. Kanon was simply a tool shannon used when she needed it, she'd only use the two persona seperately or together when there weren't many other staffs around like the family meetings.
>>
>>81401523

Yes. Genji, Nanjo and Kumawasa knew about Shanon and Kanon being the same person, minus Gohda because he's a dumbass. From the point that Yasu solves the epitaph all the servants (minus Gohda) swore loyalty to Yasu, their real master, regardless of who solves the epitaph later. During all the murders they help her to cover stuff and mislead.
>>
>>81401523
>Basically meaning that she didn't ever believe herself being multiple persons
Oh, come on man, you'd have to be exceptionally dumb to think it's DID. "Why am I in Shannon's clothes? This is strange. Oh well, I better go change and repair that door."
>>
>>81401445
Classy lady, would give her my penis
>>
>>81401712
Genji was just a metaphor for Kinzo's only REAL friend, absinthe.
>>
>>81401446
The hands intimidate me though.
I was wondering, how much story was trimmed in animation process?
>>
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Anyone playing Higanbana?What do you think of it?
>>
>>81401702

Yasu is the real master of Rokkenjima, all the servants are under her orders, so she easily arrange both Kanon and Shanon swifts so they could never overlap. One day is for Shanon, the other for Kanon, but never the same time for both of them.
>>
>>81401342
They were always on the island.

Since Genji played along, all he had to do was set up the schedules.
>>
>>81401788
Almost all of it. They actually trimmed out so much that they had to create multiple new arcs in the second season to include vital stuff they'd cut out.
>>
>>81401823
It was good
>>
>>81401740
>you'd have to be exceptionally dumb
If we believe yasu to be culprit she wasn't somekind showcase of perfect mental health. In fact, only way i could actually see her as a passable murderer would be to accept her being batshit insane. Did you know that some people with split personalities are not aware of their personality swapping? I'm sure you did
>>
>>81401487
>linking to this know nothing autistic sperglord.
>>
>>81401823
Read only the manga.
>inb4 shitty adaption
Wasn't the manga there before the VN? I however found it really enjoyable
>>
>>81401994
Yeah I think technically the VN is an adaptation of the manga.
>>
>>81401994
The manga is shit
>>
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>>81401897
Which is your favorite story?The overall show seems very much anti-bullying

I just wish the first story show the actual rape.
>>
>>81402069
I like that little girls smell like crayon
>>
>>81401908

Dude, Yasu IS emotionally disbalanced. Just look at her life, being bullied and then revealed that she's actually a dude born from the incest rape relationship of her boss and her bastard daughter. How would YOU feel?

She's aware of her personas, but she prefers to believe she's a cute servant girl with a fat boyfriend rather than face reality. It's not definitely DID, it doesn't work the same. The same thing happens with Maria, she prefers playing she's a witch rather than being the abused kid of the mother of the year.

It's all play-believe, not actual DID.
>>
>>81401994
the VN has nicer character designs than the manga. I cannot believe i would say this.

Ryukishi's designs won.
>>
>>81402045
Am i the only one who while reading higanbana tried to "solve the mystery" without magic? Am i the only one who always tried to think that the stories were in all honesty about sad little children and their fantasies? What has umineko done to me?
>>
>>81402144
Yeah I think you're the only one.

Higanbana is a horror story.
>>
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>>81402133
>>
>>81402144
Not the only one. I also tries to ruin their magic. I am such a goat
>>
>>81401908
Did you even read my post?
I'm saying you would have to ignore half of the facts to even consider it's DID. I didn't say Yasu is sane. I'm saying it's pretty obvious she/he is aware of every persona. I'm saying you're a bit misled about the topic, since
>I always thought
you seem to think DID is the prevalent idea about her mental condition.
Not saying you're wrong of anything.
>>
>>81402182
Horror story about monsters that eat children?
...Or a horror story about unaccepted children and their degrading mental condition in the ruthless postmodern battlefield?

Anyone?
>>
>>81402316
>postmodern
Let's not go down this road anon
>>
The real question is how did Yasu fall off a cliff and break only her penis?
>>
>>81402133
You are totally wrong.
While reading the manga i actually enjoyed the drawings. This is news because i have always thought manga to be extremely technical and soulless form of art. But the drawings, at least in the terrible terrible magic parts had feeling and a soul and emotion on a level that was simply amazing. It was pure eyeporn. I have never read any manga like that
>>
>>81402417
Luck, and babies have flexible bones so they're known to survive even being thrown around by a tornado
>>
>>81402417
Magic.
How did beato fall off a cliff and break only her head?
>>
/jp/ thread is better, as usual.
>>
>>81402463
I don't even want a source for this one
>>
>>81402522
It's happened numerous times
>>
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>>81402316

You

You understand the heart
>>
>>81402441
>This is news because i have always thought manga to be extremely technical and soulless form of art.

I stopped reading right there.
>>
>>81402515
i actually went to check the /jp/ out but they are only talking about different classifications of witches. Like i give a fuck about witches. Where are the guts?
>>
>>81402637
Are you sure we're talking about the same thread?
>>
>>81402634
B-but it is true. Most of the mainstream manga are terribly drawn. They follow the certain rules and most of the characters are drawn in a exact same way. Of course there are exceptions, but have you noticed the funny effect how you get most of the characters to look identical only by swapping hairdoes? It is a way of art that you can learn by ruthlessly copying. Of course you can learn anything by copying, but in japan drawing like everyone else seems to be generally accepted
>>
>>81402417

They said she surviving the fall was a miracle, if Genji hadn't arrived just in time she might have died.

>>81402463

I agree it was pure luck, but I doubt the tornado thing.

>>81402494

She feel from a considerable height, and the bottom was filled with pointy rocks, it was bound to happen, and seriously, head or not she was bound to die from such a fall. Rather, I'm happy it was quick and she didn't had to agonize in pain for too long.
>>
>>81402706
Link to a better thread, brother?

capctha: brether lyboner
>>
>>81402779
I'm not going to say you're wrong, but I AM going to say
>Most of the mainstream manga are terribly drawn
Most of the mainstream everything is disgusting tripe
>>
>>81402780
>I agree it was pure luck, but I doubt the tornado thing.
Look it up, babies have more flexible bones so they tend to survive falls better. It's true
>>
>>81402880
I cannot into crossboard posting, bear with me.
>>>/jp/10588873
>>
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>>81402922
are you seriously posting this in every thread
because if so you are the bigger loser
>>
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>>81402922

This post doesn't exist.
>>
>>81401253
but that is only in certain extreme cases of DID, most DID can be classified as co-conscious DID, which is much much closer to what Yasu experienced. It is not 100% accurate, but close enough to render that diagnosis if we consider the amount of 'fantasy' tossed into the gameboards and such. DID is also extremely close to what those faggots with Tulpas seem to be doing to themselves, but it is not 100% accurate to DID either, but it is close enough to be considered within the same family of disorders, if the M.Ds ever take it seriously enough to add into the DSM that is.
>>
>>81402515
>/a/ thread discussing the VN
>/jp/ read full of shit posting
Is it usually like that? I would think it's the opposite...
>>
>>81403104
No it's like that
>>
>>81403104
You don't know much about /jp/, do you?
>>
>>81403140
>>81403133
Apparently not.
>>
>>81403167
Just stay out of /jp/
>>
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>>81403213
BEATRICE is the only answer.
>>
Is this thread about Umineko or the existence of magic?
>>
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Do you... Believe in magic?
>>
>>81403213
I'd fuck the SHIT out of Maria.
>>
>>81403213
I'd unleash all over Maria's feet
>>
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>>81402895
My god, don't talk about baby bones. Isn't anything anymore sacred?
>>
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>>81403213
Marisa
>>
>>81403213

I used to furiously fap to Bern. Kyrie and Natsuhi are fine too.
>>
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>>81403213
>>
>>81403388
2nd worst seacat.
>>
>>81403213
My Golden Witch
>>
>>81402956
Okay that wasn't the witchboard i was referring to. I still like it better here they had 3DPD nudity
>>
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>>81403213
>>81403213
That's a loaded fucking question. Basically every single one of them is bonkers in their own special way.

Uh.

Virgilia?
>>
>>81403398
>Kyrie and Natsuhi are fine too.
My negro brother from a female parent that is not my own.
>>
>>81403480
Look at this hipstar.
>>
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>>81403388
>You will never become a 2hu through sheer singing power
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>>81403213
>>
>>81403398
>sexual intimacy with Bern
You're a braver man than I.
>>
>>81403213
Oh, this was unexpected. Magical friends are only delusions, we won't go there. Also, the trap has best (fake) boobs. I'd say jessica. Anyone from the team milf would also be okay, but natsuhi is somehow too pure, eva and rosa are scary and putting dick in kyrie is like a ignition key to crazy
>>
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>>81403439
CH-CHU CHU CHA PA PA
>>
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>>81403213
Why is asking this allowed?
>>
>>81403526
Holy shit it looks like jessica has mustache in that picture- power of singing
>>
>>81403077

"No matter who I strive to be, the face looking back at myself on the mirror will the always the face of the pathetic servant, Yasu", you have to understand Yasu really hated herself a lot, all the servants resented her and she had no friends, hence why she started to make up imaginary ones.

The point of her personas is, for a brief moment, believe she's a different person than she actually is. As Shanon, she wants to believe she can move on with George and start and new life (she can't, that's the point of the catbox), as Kanon she wants to start a new life alongside Jessica (she can't). Is very implied on episode 7 that Kanon was created to distract Shanon from thinking about Battler, she created him for that purpose and she's very conscious of that. As Beatrice she waits for Battler's return and her purpose is to seal the island on the catbox. But all of them are reflections of Yasu, not different persons. All of them expresses her desires and fears, they're not separate beings in a psychological sense.

Notice that under different circumstances, as Lion, she has none of this because she developed in an otherwise normal ambient.

>>81403285

MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH NIGGAH
>>
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>>81403641
>>
>>81403213
Cornelia, I don't even have a picture of her saved but with her zeal and hardworking personality she must fuck like a lynx.
>>
>>81403532
The experience would be probably terrible in a very negative way. Abusing and tape everywhere. If you like that kind of stuff i guess it's okay
Also why would i tap girl with a body of a child?
>>
>>81403696
>Yasu
>her
>>
>>81403779
do you really want to have this conversation
>>
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>>81403761

>Abusing and tape everywhere
>>
>>81403779

It's tiring to writer she/he all the time so I just stick to "her".
>>
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>>81403761

I want her to defile me for all eternity
>>
>>81403698
Only daily?
>>
>>81403870
zhe is a zir, cissy.
>>
>>81403607
I had to listen to the song again. One of the best things to come out of the adaptation.
>>
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>>81403213
Zepar and furfur. Magic is always about risk, so i'd have a 50% change of getting laid and 50% change of getting something totally different
>>
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>>81403916

Mah nigga.
>>
>>81403761
>Also why would i tap girl with a body of a child?
Is this one of those... reverse-quadra-troll questions?
>>
>>81403955
Joke's on you; when the tips said they were opposite sex of each other, they meant that one is neuter and the other is a hermaphrodite.
>>
>>81403696
>Lion, she has none of this because she developed in an otherwise normal ambient
What? Lion is a mi (in terms of looks)
- Natsuhi-like manners
- Attire is a mixture of Krauss' and Natsuhi's

The way I saw Lion was a what-if idea/fantasy from Yasu, about what her life would have been had she not been dropped. That's why Lion was precious to Clair, because Lion represented a world in which Yasu thought she'd be happy.
>>
>>81404026
>implying that is a problem whatsoever
>>
>>81403555

I like to think it'd be an amazing, if final, experience.
>>
>>81403955
Either way, I win.
>>
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I want to break Erika and turn her into a slobbering mess frequently and fully aware of her perveted poison mind.

Bern has it lucky.
>>
>>81404027
Fuck, my post got fucked:

I was saying Lion is a mixture of things herself:

- Older Jessica (in terms of looks)
- Natsuhi-like manners
- Attire is a mixture of Krauss' and Natsuhi's
>>
>>81403955
Holy shit, this song is golden.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z27pIIOnZlU
>>
>>81403213
Kinzo anyone, beca... i won't go there, no. You all know what i mean.
>>
What the fuck is wrong with R07. Why did he write something as messed up as this? I wanted to punch him...
>>
>>81404258
He's a bloody genius.

Only he would get these fucked up clever ideas.
>>
>>81403696
>without the stressors that cause DID, Lion didn't have DID

well no fucking shit, people aren't born with DID, they either induce it the way those tulpa faggots do, or through trauma and stress it triggers. There actually have been cases of imaginary friends turning into full blown DID, you realize this, right? Do some research on the material before you go spouting shit man. Whether or not the author intended for this or not, Yasu exhibits all the traits that she would be diagnosed with it by a trained psychologist who specializes in Multiplicity and Psychosis (me).

Also, what you state is not supported by the words in the Novel at all. It goes very far out of its way for you to know that it counts Shannon and Kannon as different people.

That said, what you claim might be the truth of rokkenjima prime, if only because we know almost nothing about it. As far as what we know about the gameboard, and what episode 7 dumps on us, the conclusions and the messages of the story, I would conclude with more than a shadow of a doubt, that Yasu has DID NOS with moderate psychosis. Counseling would focus on either integrating her different selves into one, or having her be aware of all of them and coexisting with them peacefully. Depending on the severity of her delusions, she may receive additional counseling or small dosages of anti-psychotic medications.
>>
>>81404027
>>81404105

> The way I saw Lion was a what-if idea/fantasy from Yasu, about what her life would have been had she not been dropped. That's why Lion was precious to Clair, because Lion represented a world in which Yasu thought she'd be happy.

But of course, I'm not saying he's none of that. I'm just saying that all the personas thing is born out of Yasu's desperation to escape from reality, not because she had an actual disorder (she doesn't show symptoms of DID, she never has memory loss, shanon, kanon and beatrice aren't separate beings, just reflections of Yasu the same way Sakutaro is a reflection of Maria, and never experienced fugues).

She's aware of what she's doing, if anything she's just really depressed and suicidal, I'd also like to escape from reality if I had spent my entire life surrounded by assholes.
>>
>>81404150
Why is this so good?
>>
>>81404258

He wanted to spread the word that bullying is not okay.
>>
>>81404427
Halloween music is always godly.
>>
>>81404401
Ah... yeah. The whole DID thing was disproved in EP7. Yasu was simply deluded.
Shannon, Kanon and Beatrice were simply roles she played. This is made painfully clear in "Our Confession".
>>
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>>81403593
In bed with kyrie
Dominant or submissive?
>>
>>81404457
The story was too meh imo.

There's bullying and then there excessive bullying that doesn't happen.
>>
>>81404513
What's DID?
>>
>>81404523
She's be both. Depending on the mood.
>>
>>81404560
Disassociative Identity Disorder. It's what people used to call Multiple Personality Disorder before psychologists got a better idea of how it worked.
>>
>>81404513
not taken part in this argument since forever but
>>81401209
>>
>>81404401
>not because she had an actual disorder
Man, I get your point, but I'd qualify giving birth to a myriad of personas as a disorder.
>>
>>81404523
Kyrie doesn't even let Rudolf masturbate to porn
>>
It was the OP that got me hooked in the beginning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBVQnbbVadc
>>
>>81404635
She had to watch him fuck other people for more than twenty years, you bet your ass she'd never let any cum to be wasted.
>>
>>81404635
Impossible. Rudolf is a man and a nature finds its ways, if you know what i mean asumu
>>
>>81404646
sweet logic how have I never encountered the extended version of this until now
>>
>>81404646
Go download more of Akikos music.
>>
>>81404646
>Hey, this sounds like Ar Tone-
>OH LORD I CAN'T CONTAIN THE ORGASMS, SOMEBODY CALL A MEDIC
>>
>>81404646
You know, you have to hand it to DEEN, even if they make shitty product, their ost, op and ed are fucking glorious.
>>
>>81404603
I'd contend that idea. The things mentioned in "Our Confession" work perfectly in-line with the ideas presented in the Chiru episodes. It even explains why the shrine rock thing disappeared (which was already obvious, but it was explained clearly).
>>
>>81404344

> Also, what you state is not supported by the words in the Novel at all.

It actually is. Yasu says this phrase after she becomes Beatrice (Clair), when she's explaining why Beatrice hates mirrors. By looking herself into a mirror she's reminded of who she really is, and she hates that.

> Depending on the severity of her delusions

Except that there aren't delusions at all. She's aware of her situation and all of the fantasy scenes functions are either to mislead the reader (battler) or a metaphor of what is actually happening. Yasu mentions that for an universe to be born it needs a minimal of two people. Know the real meaning of that? For a lie to exist, there must be a minimal of two people, someone who tells it and someone who believes it. You can't lie about something you yourself believe, Yasu knows Beatrice doesn't exist, that's why she's so desperate for everyone to acknowledge her, because that way she'll "exist" as a lie everyone believes.

Will explicitly said this, Beatrice, Kanon and Shanon are all roles played by Yasu, the same way an actor plays a character. You can kill Beatrice as many times you want, but she can be "revived" by Yasu if she wished so, and the only person who can kill Beatrice is Yasu, if she decides to stop playing as her.
>>
>>81404596
Us psychologists have no fucking idea how it works, and there are like 300 mini factions that vehemently argue and disagree over what the fuck it is, some of them even saying it doesn't exist at all and is just people role playing so hard that they are deluding themselves.

We know more about schizophrenia than we do about DID/MPD.

I do not specialize in it like the other anon in this thread claims to, I am more of a schizophrenia specialist, but from what I do know, Yasu could fit the diagnosis, and even if she didn't, the counseling would be similar regardless, as it is dealing with other 'people' she shares her body with, role playing or not.
>>
>>81404795
>DEEN
DEEN had shit to do with all that. Shikata was the obvious choice for the OP, and the OST was ripped from the novel and shat on.
>>
>>81404810
Our confessions doesn't work with anything.

>>81404810
>shrine rock thing disappeared
When did that happen?
I don't recall that.

>>81404834
I always wondered why Yasu ask her multiple personality to create a new universe, which would be impossible considering that they would be from a single person.
Shannon and Kanon have to be separate entities for them to be able to create a new universe.
>>
>>81404616

Not really, there's a difference between personas and imaginary friends. although they tend to overlap. Strictly speaking, only Kanon, Beatrice and Shanon are the personas. Ronove and Virgilia are just Genji and Kumawasa with heavy layers of fantasy over them, let's say Yasu wanted to see them from a different lens, that of magic. Gaap is the real imaginary friend, someone Yasu would blame her clumsiness when she was a child.

Zepar and Furfur are the embodiment of her romantic dilemma, and Lion the person she imagined would be without Natsuhi fucking up her life. She really does have a vivid imagination, and it's not like she had friends to distract herself with.
>>
>>81404769

Download the single.

Also let's get some more music in here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIWnWcXMRRI
This ending...
>>
>>81404810
>not treating entire chiru as additional tips towards the mystery
I mean, even Will didn't go there, man
>>
>>81405050
Has Zepar and Furfur ever apear in front of Yasu like the other imaginary friends such as Roneve and Virgilia?
>>
>>81405069
What is the name of the OP?
>>
>>81405007
>Our confessions doesn't work with anything.
It works perfectly well with parts of EP2 and EP3. It explains them perfectly well (if they weren't understandable already).

>When did that happen?
It's the shrine Battler claimed to remember but that was no longer there. In "Our Confession" we were told it was blown up (this was already speculated). Plus the idea of supporters also goes perfectly well with what had been hinted in the stories.
>>
>>81404780

It actually got me into her music back then. My life has never been the same. Cool that they let her do another OP for the animu.
>>
>>81405092
Except he did go there, he did read the rest of Chiru it was just Tohya/Ryukishi telling everyone that all the hints were given to figure it out.
>>
>>81405007
>Shannon and Kanon have to be separate entities for them to be able to create a new universe.
The mind is a powerful thing. You can make yourself believe lots of things. Three or four imaginary friends are piece of cake.

>>81405050
>Strictly speaking, only Kanon, Beatrice and Shanon are the personas
Sure, that's perfectly healthy. No disorders there. Nope, no sir.
>>
>>81405149
Yes. But confessions rapes the logic of umineko. It is like building a beautiful story with hidden meanings and then fanbase takes it literally.

Do you even read? In the end it is heavily implicated there is a hidden aspect to our confession. Or did you just swallow everything you were showered with like a obedient goat-kun?
>>
>>81405007

> When did that happen?
>I don't recall that.

The shrine disappeared two years before the murders IIRC. Kumawasa spread the rumours that it was struck by lighting, but in reality Yasu had destroyed it when testing if the bomb was still working.
>>
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>>81405140

Umineko no Naku Koro ni
>>
>>81397616
So that's what happened. I've played that countless times and never got that scene
>>
>>81405295
>But confessions rapes the logic of umineko.
It doesn't. It works perfectly well.

>Do you even read?
Plenty of times.
>>
>>81405228
What really puzzles me is the rule that you need to people to create a universe.

For the simple fact that it was Maria who created many of the imaginary personas, not shannon or Kanon.

Taking into account the shakannon theory, why is it impossible for Yasu to ask another persona to create another universe or characters?

Something about that rule seems to be a key that I just can't grasp.
>>
>>81405188
>My life has never been the same.
I am one of mind with you. Multiverse-shattering-tier artist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_1WdlYMHgE
>>
>>81405391
>Yasu buying everyone works
>Fuck logic and mystery, the killer just bought everyone.
This is low level mystery tier story.
Ryukishi would have never done that.
He's smarter than that.
>>
>>81405394
>why is it impossible for Yasu to ask another persona to create another universe or characters?
Because the person has to believe in the same stuff as she does. That's why Maria worked.
>>
>>81405391
Then you should give it a another go and actually read it until the end, son
>>
>>81405394
The fantasy christened Maria "witch of origins", and put her on a pedestal even higher than that of Bern and Lambda by virtue of being able to create "1 from a sea of 0" on her own.

In other words, Yozzo admired Maria's imagination so much that she considered it sufficient on its own, instead of having to trick anyone.
>>
>>81404834
let me spell it out for you kid, because you dont seem to fucking get it.

first, let us start off with this.
>Yasu knows Beatrice doesn't exist

Most DID patients of mine aren't fucking retarded man. They realize these alters of theirs arent real people. That is what causes them pain. two hate themselves because of it, with one of those two having a similar hatred of mirrors for the same reason. The rest dont really have hatred, but fear of their alters.

As for the one patient who had the similar hatred of the mirror, once she switched to the alter personality during a session. I asked her for her opinion on the mirror while she was in the alter personality state. She screamed and started crying. It got hysterical. Later she told me she hated seeing that 'I am not who I am'.

>for a universe to be born it needs a minimal of two people

That line was broader than the meaning you pulled from it. It was not simply about lies, or believing lies, but about believing anything in general.

Belief, whether it is true or not, trumping all else, was the note umineko ended on. The Ushiromiya eagle gold truth, that entire ending, this was the message of the whole story.

>because that way she'll "exist" as a lie everyone believes.

Most of my patients want validation of their alter personalities existing as well. The question I get asked the most from my patients is something along the lines of 'they are real right?' before following up with a lengthy explanation saying they acknowledge that they are not real, but they want to know that they are real in some other way, as in, are they really things that exist in their head as free thinking individuals? The true answer to that question is that we do not know yet. Science has yet to produce an answer.

All I stated was that it was pretty close to DID, enough for me to diagnose it if this were a real case. You got super autistic about it because you have no idea what that entails, or what DID is like.
>>
>>81405394

Among other things, Umineko is about storytelling. And stories don't really exist without a writer and an audience. Two people minimum.
>>
>>81405457
Not necessarily everyone per gameboard, but definitely one or two accomplices. Notice that in "Our Confession" it was just Natsuhi and Krauss.

Of course, Genji, Kumasawa and Nanjo were already in it.

Of course, real Rokkenjima could be a completely different matter.
>>
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Required in every thread.

FUCK YOU RYUKISHI
>>
>>81405130

I'd have to read episode 6 again, I don't really remember.

>>81405228

> Sure, that's perfectly healthy. No disorders there. Nope, no sir.

You missed the point. No one's arguing Yasu is mentally stable, but it wasn't DID. She wanted to lie to herself because it was better to play witch, boy servant or girl servant rather than boy born out of rape incest who got his penis cut off.

>>81405007

When she talks about creating a new universe she means that she wants to start a new life with either Battler, George or Jessica. Because no one knows her real gender, she can move on as the lie that is Kanon or the lie that is Shanon. Her gender is, actually, a cat box that only she can open. As long as everyone believes that lie, she can create the universe she wants with anyone, regardless if as Shanon or Kanon or Beatrice.

Also, you forget that if Shanon is the one who gets to create a new universe, Kanon is bounded to stay in the island, that is, disappear forever. The same goes for him, if he gets to create an universe with Jessica, Shanon must disappear because she lost the "duel".
>>
>>81405679
b-but you need muh love to see the answer anon
>>
>>81405594
I like how you got entire umineko figured out, son and you go with the official explanation. It's like you don't even try anymore
>>
>>81405721

Apparently though, Ryukishi isn't the only Japanese writer who writes mysteries with no answer. It's a thing in Japan and people have been doing it for a while.

The fact that other people do it doesn't make Umineko's non resolution easier to swallow though.
>>
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>>81405699
>No one's arguing Yasu is mentally stable
Whoa man.
>>
>>81405594
(Cont)

Have you ever even met someone with DID before? Try working with them on a daily basis. Try getting your Psy.D with a focus on the subject. Yasu fits it. Not 100% because this is silly Japanese Visual Novel Fantasy/Mystery story with anime cliches and tropes all over the place, but it fits close enough that a more realistic series of these events occuring would definitely have me diagnose Yasu as DID. Even if it isn't DID per say, it is still a type of Dissociative Disorder, as it deals heavily with her seperating parts of herself from herself, and 'acting them out' as if they were roles to play, instead of them just being a natural 'whole' self that is her.

If anything, the existence of Lion further proves this, as Lion is a unified 'whole', featuring traits from a wide variety of the 'roles' Yasu 'plays'.

And in a world where Yasu faces severe physical and emotional trauma, over a long period of time, what were just different aspects of a 'whole' personality for Lion, are now fractured 'characters' that she must role play.

Either way, the end result is the same. Yasu has a Dissociative Disorder, would be diagnosed as such, and get the treatment I outlined earlier.
>>
>>81405699
>When she talks about creating a new universe she means that she wants to start a new life with either Battler, George or Jessica.
That wasn't her main goal, I think. Whilst she did want to start a new life, she wanted to be figured out first. This is the reason why the mystery being solved was so important to Beatrice, why she wrote the letters in the bottles, etc... Not to mention that she could have moved on with George at any time, considering they already had a stable thing, but she didn't because George was expecting things she couldn't deliver.
>>
>>81405474
But it was shown that she had a grasp on Shannon at the very least.

Also something that troubles me is who created Kanon.
Maria didn't create him and neither did Shannon and I highly doubt that Kanon is the true personality of Yasu since Kanon is near emotionless.
Who would have created the persona of Kanon?

>>81405566
Except she didn't create anything on her own.
The lion pet was created due to the sowing of Rosa.
And Beatrice's imaginary friends were already created but given life with Maria.

She never created life on her own.
She still needed a second person to create a universe or a person.
Which is why I call foul for the creations of different personas, if you consider the 2 person universe rule.

>>81405679
That Image is bullshit.
Higurashi was written in a different format where it had to explain the solution for it to make sense.
You were given all the clues but you had to go with Rika to get the full enjoyment of the story.
Explaining the story was a key element in Higurashi but not Umineko.

How are you suppose to figure out the Illuminati was behind Higurashi?
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>>81398186
>crying over eating food covered in jizz
Come the fuck on. Given what others go through she should feel like its fucking Christmas.

>>81403213
Lucifer.
I just wanted to hug her and let her know how cute she was. Poor lucifer.

Sadly pic related.
>>
>>81405894
Okay, we get you have a PsyDuck on DID, Mr. Man. Go solve people's problems and let us continue with the thread.
>>
>>81405924
Or maybe because she was the fucking head of the family burdened by the gold
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>>81403213
Ange
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>>81406016
ok, you faggots continue on then.

>idiots with no training in psychology argue over the psychological factors that are working behind a fictional character
>dude with real psychological training comes in, explains how someone misrepresented some facts in their argument earlier, and explains what he believes his diagnosis of the character would be
>NO YOUR WRONG FAGGOT, WE DONT CARE, GO DO SOME PSYCHOLOGY STUF LOL ROW ROW FIGHT DA POWAH

Its like /a/ is seriously nothing but underage faggots now.
>>
>>81405894
Also, I agree with your logic with DID.

However since it was never explained in details in the novels, it should not be used as an explanation.
Yes you do understand how multiple personality disorder works more than us, however you can't use it as an explanation since it was never mentioned or expanded upon in the novels.

>>81406205
I agree with your explanation but I don't think explaining how DID works is something that will explain who is the murderer.
>>
>>81406033
She never really gave two fucks about being the head of the family (other than it being proof of her being part of the family), though. It's the same with the gold. She was more than willing to relinquish it to get ahold of her own life.
>>
>>81405594

> The rest dont really have hatred, but fear of their alters.

Yasu doesn't fear her personas.

> That line was broader than the meaning you pulled from it. It was not simply about lies, or believing lies, but about believing anything in general.

> Belief, whether it is true or not, trumping all else, was the note umineko ended on. The Ushiromiya eagle gold truth, that entire ending, this was the message of the whole story.

So...?

> Using your profession to validate your arguments

Yeah, right.

>>81405892

Emotionally stable =/= mental disorder

> as it deals heavily with her seperating parts of herself from herself

She's not, all of her personas are reflections of her. Kanon is her way to vent her frustration over her own situation without making look Shanon like an asshole. Shanon is her way to act as society expects, a good servant and a traditionally girly girl. She was also Yasu's role model in her childhood. Beatrice is her ideal self, the things she aspires to be. After she solves the epitaph, she becomes her power fantasy to make up for all the bullying she gets. So no, it's just Yasu playing different people and still being herself, none of them are separate people with separate desires, all of them are Yasu, just because they look or act different doesn't mean they aren't the same person.


> If anything, the existence of Lion further proves this, as Lion is a unified 'whole', featuring traits from a wide variety of the 'roles' Yasu 'plays.

Not really. Lion is a fantasy of her ideal self as an accepted member of the Ushiromiyas. In fact, Clair says that she's glad Lion isn't her, and she envies Lion because he has none of the issues Yasu had. He's a healty never-became-Yasu, with not a spark of imaginary friends neither personas in him.
>>
>>81406205
>Idiot with psychological training comes in, tries to associate his knowledge of an academic discipline with the actions of a character written by some Japanese dude who sells horror stories at Comiket
>>
>>81406399
Stop discrediting Ryukishi.
>>
>>81406326
Are we discussing fucking semantics now?
>A mental disorder or mental illness is a psychological pattern or anomaly, potentially reflected in behavior, that is generally associated with distress or disability, and which is not considered part of normal development in a person's culture.
>>
Yasu was just a chuuni, suffering in the world of patriarchy, and cis-gendered men who wouldn't check their privilege.
>>
>>81405965

> Also something that troubles me is who created Kanon.

Yasu did. She created him as a way of venting her anger and depression and not making Shanon look bad since she was supposed to be the perfect servant.

>>81405965

Maria is called the witch of creation because she could give birth to ideas solely from her imagination. Yasu is different because she can only take things that already exist and give them a different shape. Her idea of Beatrice is a emboidment of things that already exist (the ghost legends, Kinzo's mistress, etc), Shanon was something she created due to the circumstances of being asked to be a good servant, and the same with Kanon. If anything, she didn't even came up with her own plans to create the murders, everything was from the mystery books Kumawasa gave to her.

In other words, Maria is more creative than Yasu.
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>>81406263
ok, we can get this thread back on track then.

But the 'never explained in detail' is a huge handicap when talking about umineko.

The Identity of the killer was never explained in detail for example- so we can't do that. The hints left behind could point towards anything with enough logic. Although they point towards Yasu being more heavily involved in at least every murder. We have no information on Prime at all. The one thing that is explained in detail was the main message of the story- 'magic' 'exists'. and that finding the truth isn't as important as other things, such as love.

Without love, the truth cannot be seen.

What is the truth?

Magic.

what is magic?

Belief in something.

Why is this important? Braun Tubes. Cat Boxes. Ravens.

It is important because the truth can be anything, it is belief in a possible answer that is the truth. It is the 'magic' that makes the answer 'correct', makes it 'exist'. Believing in something or someone, putting that much trust into it, can only be described as 'love'.

Without love, the Truth cannot be seen.
>>
>>81406562
>In other words, Maria is a shit tier daughteru
>>
>>81406399
>fat neckbeard disses trained psychologist for correcting other neckbeards misconceptions about a mental disorder in a neckbeard argument over a fictional character written by some japanese dude who sells horror stories at Comiket
>>
>>81406619
Rosa was a terrible mother.
She deserves a shit daughter.
>>
>>81406602
>Love is an illusion, a misunderstanding.
>Mutual love is a mutual misunderstanding of being mutually loved.
>And engagement is a vow to not wake up for your whole life from that misunderstanding.
>Ronove
There you go.
>>
>>81406472
I'm not discrediting him. I'm just saying you can't take what he writes as something with much scientifical research under it. I love the story and felt every thrust of his dick buttfucking me with Shkanon at the end of EP6, but I say that trying to analyze his characters as if they were real persons is just silly. It was not DID, it was nothing they teach in school. It was a fantasy story about a distressed lover.
>>
>>81406602

> What is the truth?

The truth behind the 4 games.

> what is magic?

A psychological coping mechanism of ignoring reality at your convenience, in this case, people who are too traumatized and don't want to face their shitty reality. Basically, BELIEVE.

> Why is this important? Braun Tubes. Cat Boxes. Ravens.

It's important because it explains why Yasu wanted to commit the murders. If she wipes out everything, no one can deny the existence of anything. The ultimate lie that no one can disprove.

The thing "without love, it cannot be seen" is for people who focused too much in the murders and ignored the emotional part of the story, which is essential to understand it as a whole. Many people missed that, sadly.
>>
>>81406797
>taking ronoves word over Battler, Ange, Beatrice, and the entire rest of the cast excepting Bern, Aurora, and Erika

Sure thing bro.
>>
>>81406562
>
Maria is called the witch of creation because she could give birth to ideas solely from her imagination. Yasu is different because she can only take things that already exist and give them a different shape. Her idea of Beatrice is a emboidment of things that already exist (the ghost legends, Kinzo's mistress, etc), Shanon was something she created due to the circumstances of being asked to be a good servant, and the same with Kanon. If anything, she didn't even came up with her own plans to create the murders, everything was from the mystery books Kumawasa gave to her.
This is a beautiful paragraph and should be included in the canon of Seacats discussan'.
>>
>>81406764
>psychologist tries to impose his views on a fictional world, to pin down how a charactr is fucked up.

You dont need a degree to know how retarded you are being right now. This is fiction, only the creator is correct.

Speculate all you want, but it dosent mean shit in the world of fiction. Logic does not apply, becuase the world of fiction is not bound by our laws.
Feel free to waste more time and rage at neckbeards though.
>>
>>81406783
They're both shit. A shit waifu and a shit daughteru.
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>>81406562
But how did she create him, considering the 2 people rule?

I think you're giving more importance to Maria than you should.

Maria is a kid, nothing more, nothing less.
She's being call the with of creation because of what she provided not what she is.
Yasu/Rosa was able to further her fantasy due to Maria and was grateful for that.

Maria is more creative than Yasu, which I also think is a plot point and a character description of Rosa.
Even as a fashion designer, she has no imagination.

What I'm disagreeing is how Shannon came into being due to the 2 person universe rule.
Since it wasn't shown, we can't be sure how they came into being and the explantion of DID is not a valid one imo because it was not explained in the novel, it would suck that only those with a medical degree could solve a mystery novel.

>>81406602
I don't believe in the concept of love, and it is plainy shown in the novel that love is never present except for Kinzo's love for Beatrice.
Jessica/Kanon and George/Shannon was not love at the very least.

Love is not suppose to be present as a form of explanation.
It's implied that Yasu is disapointed in the outcome of love but it not love itself that causes the tragedy.


>Van Dine Rule 3
>There must be no love interest. The business in hand is to bring a criminal to the bar of justice, not to bring a lovelorn couple to the hymeneal altar.
>>
>>81406917
thanks for summarizing what I said in a much less poetic way.
>>
>>81406764
>correcting other neckbeards misconceptions
You(?) weren't correcting anything, you were flaunting your knowledge of a disorder totally unrelated to the story.
>>
>>81407053
Well Maria is only like that because her mother did such a por job raising her.
Therefore she is excused.
>>
>>81407014

> using my profession to validate my arguments
> hurr hurr have an M.D this makes all my arguments correct fuck u hurr hurr
>>
>>81407014
>This is fiction, only the creator is correct.
good thing Ryu07 said in an interview that only women could understand Umineko then, which means without a shadow of a doubt, you will never understand it.

Also

>Speculate all you want, but it dosent mean shit in the world of fiction. Logic does not apply, becuase the world of fiction is not bound by our laws. Feel free to waste more time and rage at neckbeards though.

Spoken like a true goat.

This story was written specifically to be interpreted and debated over. Stop your bitching and take it, or leave.
>>
>>81407177
>Therefore she is excused.
There are plenty of children who go through abuse and neglect and still turn up innocent, albeit emotionally fragile. Maria is just a shit person like her mother.

Like Mother like Daughter.
>>
>>81407226
Ryuikishi is a 4th generation feminist.
He's bullshiting when he's saying only women can solve it.
He just wants guys to be bigots and try and solve it to prove Ryukishi wrong.
>>
>>81407058

Dlanor says Beato's game doesn't necessarily follows mystery rules. Also

> rosatrice

Yup. Not arguing with you anymore.
>>
>>81407117
my very first post in this thread was in reply to someone saying 'she doesnt have DID though, DID doesnt work that way'

From then on out, it was him being autistic, and me replying accordingly.
>>
>>81407058
>we can't be sure how they came into being
She invented the other personas. Bam, one day they appeared. She wanted other people to talk to and they appeared. Like many children (on a different degree, of course). Just like that. Not hard to understand.
>>
>>81407315
3deep5u
>>
>>81407315

I'm pretty sure he said women would be more able to understand it because of the romance and many emotional elements of the story.

You know, the idea that women are in more touch with emotions and men are insensitive jerks. That's was he was saying. No clue about the murders though.
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>>81407258
>There are many people who go through war, famine and torture and return unscathed. Everybody else is a looney bastard who wants attention
>>
>>81407326
>Yup. Not arguing with you anymore.
Not arguing in the sense of ''I agree with you'' or ''huurrr you're retarded for thinking that''?

Because fuck you if that's what I think you're implying.

Rosa is clearly the person who caused EP2 and the theory is perfectly valid.

>>81407423
Which is why I find it interesting that he only talked about emotions and feelings and not how they can notices the clues.
Maybe he's right in saying that men are not as keen into seeing other people's emotion as women.
>>
>>81407347

He's a rosafag, no use in trying to explain him the personas.
>>
>>81407608
Way to accept theory you buthurt idiot.

I can easily understand both sides without being a dick about it.

I can see the merits of both, so there's no need to call me names, you piece of shit.
>>
>>81407581

> Which is why I find it interesting that he only talked about emotions and feelings and not how they can notices the clues.

To notice the clues you have to understand the character's struggles and emotions, without that you're left with a bunch of nonsense. Basically, you can't solve the mystery without diving into all the psychological part of the story, that's what he means by taking on account the heart.
>>
>>81407423
>I'm pretty sure he said women would be more able to understand it because of the romance and many emotional elements of the story.
Pretty much this. I'm a little girl/flamboyant faggot at heart and I think I know what he meant.
I think he was referring in particular to the wound that Battler left whe he didn't return in his pony. I think he meant women could more easily understand how that can stay hidden in your heart and turn into full-on life-consuming agony after a while ("Why doesn't he come back" all day erry day for years), and then into the madness that caused all this shit (Yasu being split between Battler, George, Jessica).
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>>81407740
Of course.

Emotions are clues in of themselves and if you are more receptive to them, you have an edge in understanding the characters and their struggle more than a person who is less receptive to emotions.

Easy example shown in the story is how Jessica and Shannon know something is wrong emotionally where George and Battler don't notice anything from neither.

>>81407765
>I think he meant women could more easily understand how that can stay hidden in your heart and turn into full-on life-consuming agony after a while

More or less what I meant but not just agony suffering.
>>
>>81407765

I know, I think Ryukishi was already diving into that idea with Shion and Satoshi, as kind of a test for then perfecting the idea and then applying it to Umineko. The same happens with Rosa, she's left waiting for someone that will never come back, and all her frustration builds up until she lashes out at Maria. It's sad, really.
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>>81399552
OH DESIRE
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>>81407765
I feel I need to expand on this a bit:
What I said is exactly "the heart" of the story we heard about so often. The base, the motive, the wound, the center. The crucial point. If you accept that, it follows that you could say that women, often better connected with their emotions, would be able to first understand the suffering, and therefore understand the why, and from then the core and identity of the mystery.
My anus still hurts from the disappointment of this being the motive, but I think R07 was quite spot-on saying this about women. If the whole thing had been a bit less retarded (after all this time I can't accept that a promise from a kid was the cause; by my life experiences I can almost say it could even work in real life as a trigger, but conceptually it's frustratingly disappointing as a key), it would have been a top-tier trigger for a mystery story.
>>
>>81407983
>I think Ryukishi was already diving into that idea with Shion and Satoshi
Ahh, you get what I'm saying. My nigga.
>>
would you put it past kinzo?
>>
urineshit goes in /jp/
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>>81408410
Ryukishi has always been a genius at writing women realistically and emotionally.
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>>81408410

> (after all this time I can't accept that a promise from a kid was the cause;

While it's one of the main motives, you also have to take on account that Yasu's life was ruined from the beginning. Bullied, despised, her father was a rapist, her mother was his daughter, she had all the right to be accepted into a family and be loved but even that was denied from her, and was tricked all her life to think she's a girl. Worst of all ,people around her knew all this and yet they had to shut her up in an island working since childhood and even depriving her from being adopted from a normal family.

> Shanon: Your boyfriend wants a family, you can't give him one because you lack a vagina to begin with, also you're terrified he'll reject you if he knows you're his aunt/cousin who got his penis cut off. Also Eva would never approve.

> Kanon: Sorry Jessica it's hard to love the daughter of the person who tried to kill me. Also, you're too self-centered to understand my suffering.

> Battler: lol what promise

You're missing a lot of things if you think the promise was the only thing that fucked up Yasu.
>>
>>81408810
There was nothing stopping her from leaving the island though.
>>
>>81408946

There was. First, she kept waiting for Battler but then she realized he would never come, so George NTR plan entered in action, and Yasu played along in a failed attempt to forget about Battler. She had to stay in the island if she wanted to keep seeing George. Also, she also fell for Jessica later, another reason to stay.

She was also terrified no one would accept her outside Rokkenjima. She cornered herself into suicide with all the things going on.

Also I have the feeling Genji would have stopped her somehow because he was hoping he could reunite father and son someday.
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>>81409079
I wouldn't say George was an NTR plan so much as it was an attempt to move on and find someone else.
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>>81408810
>You're missing a lot of things if you think the promise was the only thing that fucked up Yasu.
Ah, but maybe you don't get what I mean.
Here, have a retarded diagram which I don't even know if makes sense.
Yes, many things happened to Yasu. Everything is a cause because that's how the universe works, but the promise is the... well, you have heard this many times, but it's The Heart. It's the tiniest, most apparently insignificant thing that comes to carry the largest amount of causality for the events of the mystery.
>>
>>81409202

I won't deny that, but you can't deny that even after spending so much time dating George she still couldn't forget about Battler.

And I was saying George wanted to NTR Battler, since he was half jealous about Battler being popular with women and half jealous that Shanon liked Battler more than him.
>>
>>81409079
>>81409202

I need to reread umineko but at what point are we told that George hid letters or that Battler was surprized that the letters didn't reach Shannon?
>>
>>81409368

The thing with the letters was left to your interpretations. It could be either

> George hid Battler's letter from Shanon out of jealousy
> Battler never wrote a letter to begin with

Both of them are totally viable, but I like to think George hid the letters because he's a fatass jerk.

You can also think Battler never wrote a letter to begin with because he barely remembered someone named Shanon lived on the island.
>>
>>81409368
We're only told George delievered the letters, right?
Now that I think about it (after a few years), it can't be a casual event included for the sake of it. Either George hid it (wouldn't expect that from him), or Battler just went "Yeah, I think I wrote you some letters... maybe. Sorry, I barely even remember you".
Or there could be another possiblity. Any Umineko sage in here?
>>
>>81409526
>>81409528

Useless, it's all useless.

Oh well.

I guess I'll have to reread it myself.
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>>81408691
>>
>>81409265

> Everything is a cause because that's how the universe works, but the promise is the... well, you have heard this many times, but it's The Heart. It's the tiniest, most apparently insignificant thing that comes to carry the largest amount of causality for the events of the mystery.

Well, I always thought that Yasu had clinged so much to Battler because he gave her the illusion that he cared about understanding people's hearts to a very depressed and bullied Yasu, so she projected all her ideals on him throughout the years "Battler would understand me, I'm sure he will".

She tried with George, but he was too absorbed in his own dreams of breaking free of Eva's manipulation to pay attention to how depressed she was.

She then tried with Jessica, but she was too absorbed into trying to live her own life despite being forced to kill her own self because of Natsuhi's demands of perfection, that she couldn't understand the whole furniture thing and just kept projecting herself onto Kanon ("create another you, the person you really are!").

Yasu gives up on trying to make anyone understand her. Battler, the only person who talked about understanding the heart, is the only person left. She hopes and dreams that he will come and save her from her own depression, but after 6 years she's basically proved she was only joking. She has a breakdown because her only hope, Battler, was a joke all along, she despairs and decides to kill herself along with everyone.
>>
>>81409808
This is a shot in the dark, but I bet if I reread this ten years from now (just a couple years short of an eternity) the tears would cause a national-scale flood.
>>
>>81409928
The fuck are you on about?
>>
>>81409919
>She tried with George, but
>She then tried with Jessica, but
Oh, this is a point of view, or at least a depth, I hadn't considered before. Yes, it probably wasn't just an escape or a simple delusion, maybe it was a direct attempt at getting from those two what she didn't get from Battler.
One thing, though. It wasn't a sudden loss of control, not even close. What I think (and basically what for some reason I'm repeatedly trying to convey) is that every day, the wait for Battler became worse. In the case of wounds that pass the critical point and don't heal with time, the first month you're disappointed, after six months you're very depressed, and you can only imagine what happens after two, three, four, five years.
Actually, I don't even need to say this, it's explained very graphically in the novel. Don't remember which scene, though.
>>
And then there were none posting in the Umineko thread.
>>
What's even going on in this thread?
>>
>>81410480

Oh yeah, I know what you mean, but I think that even through those years Yasu still had a very slim hope that if some day she gets to meet Battler again he would understand her. Just as Rosa, as the days passed she begins to realize the truth, but because she's never given a clear answer or confirmation she still has room to hope for something, which is what tortures her as times passes. I think that single hope she had on Battler is what tormented her the most, because she knew it was just an illusion, something she wanted to believe but wasn't necessarily true.

But nope, six year later "ihihihihi it was all a joke shanon sorry lol shii u agein" is the final cherry on the cake.

George's proposal is also one of the main triggers for her despair. Basically, by giving Shanon the ring she has no means of escape: she can't run away neither cant give George what he wants, her lie will be uncovered soon, so she needs to create the catbox to preserve the illusion that Shanon was able to give George a family and a proper wife someday.
>>
>>81410989
I just want to say that enjoyed the thread.
Maybe we'll have this again.
>>
>>81410898
Shakannonfag jerking off to the concept of love, which doesn't exist.
>>
>>81412127
>Shkannonfag
This was a thing back in EP5. Now it holds the same meaning as "person who has read the novel".
>>
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>>81412860
Now now. There's quite a few people who've been won over by Fat X Mom, as crazy as it may seem.
>>
>>81412860
Uh huh. Sure it is.

More like a person who saw EP6 with deeper themes than what it was and ignoring the whole mystery side of the story for one of love.

Fuck the mystery part of the game this is a full on love story.
The murders are just a distraction to what REALLY happened.
Oh and all the murders were bought by Yasu so who gives a fuck about how each person was killed in a closed room. Didn't you read Our confessions??
lelelelelelel

inb4 without love it can't be seen.
>>
why does nobody ever discuss how fucking awesome the music of this is?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_UHO60tkdg
fucking best song in the ost hands down.
>>
>>81405965

What different foramt?

Both are mysteries. Both should resolve everything. Umineko especially so, because it postured itself as a goddamn love letter to golden age mystery stories.

The message Ryukishi wrote there still stands. A riddle without an answer is pointless. No certainty, no catharsis, no resolution for anyone and everyone involved in story and out. Where's the joy in that?
>>
>>81413053
Ep1 set the stage for it.

Kyrie told us what to expect - forget about whodunnit and howdunnit, the heart of the culprit is the really interesting mystery.

Bernkastel told us our goal point-blank - expose the heart of the witch. Of course, once that heart was exposed, she couldn't think of anything better to do than to trample it underfoot.

Even the adverts said it up-front:
"No Knox. No Dine. No Fair.
In other words it is not a mystery."

Of course, if you want to solve it as a mystery, that's okay. Nothing stopping you.

But there were clues from Day One that the traditional mystery puzzle wasn't the point.
>>
>>81413121
There is nothing to discuss. The general consensus is
>OH GOD MY SOUL IS BEING PENETRATED BY AN ANGELIC MUSICAL PHALLUS
We ran out of fluids long ago. Nothing left to say.
>>
>>81413121
The music is godlike.

My favorite is still

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuRRe1moVhY

Also that moment when battler says he'll beat Beato at her own game at the start of EP2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSKWf_20Lkg

And this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p85zQLOMlUY

>>81413316
Yeah this.

There's really nothing to say other than post our fav music.
>>
>>81413121
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBdrlg2zVH4
Sometimes I listen to Ageha (the "stroke of midnight" BGM) as I drift off to sleep.
>>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8OPG7nS6eo

It's not mentioned much when people bring up favorite music, but Prison STRIP is godly. I still get chills when Battler declares he's going to erase every atom of Beatrice from existence. I can feel the rage.
>>
>>81413537
OH YEAH.

Shame it wasn't used as much.
>>
>>81413010

I'm pretty much sure that the fandom is more concerned by the controversy of having a confirmed transsexual character than caring about rosatrice.

>>81413053

But who says you can't have both love and mystery?
>>
>>81413388
>Sometimes I listen to Ageha (the "stroke of midnight" BGM) as I drift off to sleep.
That's fucking spooky, man. How can you do that? I'd be tempted to recheck every lock and window and closet and below the bed and over the roof and under the desk and inside the fridge and inside the walls in the house.

>>81413537
It is godly. These guys did awesome things with those synths. I think it's unique in a way, that fusion between horror and high-BPM, multi-layer synths. That synergy added even more value to the whole thing

Dread of the grave is one track that just fucking shouts "I'll turn this situation around".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tICKoZ18zHk
>>
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>>81403213
>>
One question, if the soundtrack is so good why aren't the artists featured in more works? Are they too obscure for mainstream media?
>>
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The mystery should have been abandoned and the rest of the games should have been Battler and Beato fucking. Would have been way better than what we actually got.
>>
>>81414061

There's this one part in Dread of The Grave that sounds as if there are sirens going off everywhere at once. It's like it's warning you that there's this particularly awesome and dangerous bit of logic coming your way. i love it. It's a very narrative song.
>>
>>81414144
>For mainstream media
They are whole layers below "too obscure for mainstream media". Some of them have their own doujin circles, you could check them out if you cared.
>>
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>>81414061
Maria goggles. I'm also the kind of person who thought the True Ending to Eversion was adorable as all git out.
>>
>>81413953
>But who says you can't have both love and mystery?

Everyone who goes on about the love aspect.

It really rubs me the wrong way.

Maybe because I respect Ryukishi as a writer who would create this whole mystery scenario only to have the answer being that Yasu bought people.

And when people talk about the concept of love and the love aspect in the story, they ignore the mystery aspect entirely.
It all boils down to "love love love, don't you see how dynamic love is?" etc

It's like someone focusing on one aspect of the story and overriding the rest of the elements.

>>81414061
>Dread of the grave
I swear that they based it on phoenix wright or something.
Something about it seems so similar.

>>81414144
Undergrown artist. Artist who only public by internet means instead of using an agent or the music industry.

Gotta hand it to Ryukishi, mixing mainstream and obscure internet artist was a genius idea.
>>
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Why is this thread is full of posts with blank images
>>
>>81413953
Umineko shows both the positive and negative sides of fantasy and mystery, though. Beatrice gets carried away with her evil cruelty in her fantasy, but we also see fantasy as a way to protect and show love to people. For mystery, we have Erika trampling peoples' hearts by treating it only as a puzzle for her amusement, but then we're presented Will who basically saves someone's soul by solving their mystery.
>>
>>81414372
I left my umineko images in another computer.
>>
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It's time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcTxd5qQChw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBQO4nOzj1s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHdP6vmrzME
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gymBixP5rQU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEOy4zEVFoU
>>
>>81414239
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tICKoZ18zHk#t=1m35s
I fucking love music. I wish I could be music.

Also, Mortal Stampede.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4j4hw9sJ-Y
dai impressively described a one-on-one, extreme close-range fight in this track. No side wants to take even one step back.
>>
>>81397479
Kanon's penis is definitely real, just dashed against some rocks and probably long digested by some seagulls by now
>>
>>81414375
Erika failed due to her innability to form theories competently.

The perfect description of her is that she is a detective that failled to listen to Doyle's quote

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”

She jumped to the conclusion of who the murderer was based on the lack of evidence instead of the other way around, where she should have presented evidence to prove that Natsuhi was the culprit.

All she showed was that Natsuhi had something to hide, but having something to hide is not the same as hiding a crime. That's where she failed.

I think Ryukishi correctly analysed that a detective could mistake the two, hiding something shameful and hiding a murder.

Hell Will explains this point at the start of EP7 and I doubt it's a coincidence.
>>
>>81414308

> It really rubs me the wrong way.
> And when people talk about the concept of love and the love aspect in the story, they ignore the mystery aspect entirely.

Well, just what specifically you don't like about it? I'm very aware of the mystery aspect (in fact, every game is easily solvable if you take in account Yasu bribed the adults with the gold, the servants are accomplices and Shkanon), but as the sentimental fag I am I find it more interesting and exciting talking about the love aspect because it's something I can relate to. Not only love, but the psychological part itself. Many of the struggles, both of the children and the adults are something I can relate to, so while I do understand the mystery part, I find this much more fascinating. Honestly, Umineko is the only novel that has resonated with me so much, it has something I hardly ever find in any other anime or manga or VN for that matter.

> I swear that they based it on phoenix wright or something.
Something about it seems so similar.

Hah, I'm on you with that, I can feel the finger pointing on every note.
>>
>>81414725

Pretty much. Honestly, Erika is very smart, but her pride is what keeps her from seeking any other possibilities. She sticks with a theory, decides it's perfect and anything against it is wrong, which makes her overlook any other important clues that might lead to a different solution.
>>
>81414886
I think Ryukishi giving a pretty straightforward solution to the mystery but then exploring the expectations that get built around it is just as interesting, but in a different way. But I can see why some people would be disappointed if they were super invested in it.
>>
>>81414570
>Furu Guy Sings Umineko Rhapsody
Oh fuck, why did it take me three years to see this? Excellent
>>
>>81414886
>(in fact, every game is easily solvable if you take in account Yasu bribed the adults with the gold, the servants are accomplices and Shkanon)

That's the point.

It's easily solvable. Like you claim.

Without Our Confessions, you would not have an answer.
Goat nobbling on the small grain of bread of answer actually given by Ryukishi and defending it with the satisfaction of having the answer that fits the psychological aspect of the mystery instead of answering the mystery by its own terms.

Beato should have never thrown that damn last bottle and should have waited for her knight to find her, instead of getting a fake peasant claiming to be a knight.

>>81415025
I find it more interesting that Bern, a person who would have considered every possible theory, just agreed that Natsuhi was the culprit and bet on it.
Something about Bern being so sure seems wrong to me and I can't put my finger on it.
Either bad writing or that it seemed forced, something about it seems wrong.
>>
>>81415195
>implying Bern would have considered every theory
>implying Bern isn't a butthurt child who just wanted to kill Beatrice and didn't care otherwise
>>
>>81415195
The answer's reachable without Our Confessions, though? Will makes the rotating/bought accomplice system explicit in his explanations too. And even without either of those Hideyoshi and Rosa being bought by the culprit is really obvious.
>>
>>81415138

Hoh, yeah. I guess people who weren't too much into all the drama and was in only for the gory murders were the ones who were disappointed the most. I started reading some time before episode 8 was out, and knowing that it was actually a drama with mystery elements my expectations weren't betrayed, I was actually pretty satisfied. It took me some time and long discussions to understand the methods of murder and Yasu herself, but in the end I understood both sides and I can say this is not a story anyone can digest without revising their own beliefs first. So I don't get mad at people who don't understand, because not everyone has the guts to, but I'd be more glad if they put the effort to.
>>
>>81415301
Eh, true.

Maybe I'm giving her too much credit to the whole silent type who analyse everything.

I just find it weird that she kept claiming that she knew the answer yet failed to point her piece in the right direction.
>>
>>81415443
Well, it's still possible she did an exhaustive search of theories, and just decided to back the one that she thought would be easiest to "prove", regardless of correctness.
>>
>>81415443
Bern didn't claim to know the answer though, maybe you're confusing her with Lambda, who did. Hell even in EP7 to reach the answer she admitted to calling Will as a facilitator and letting him do all the work for her.
>>
>>81415195
>Goat nobbling on the small grain of bread of answer actually given by Ryukishi and defending it with the satisfaction of having the answer that fits the psychological aspect of the mystery instead of answering the mystery by its own terms.
What are you talking about? There is no "answering the mystery".
You might ask me a question about some particular fact regarding to a particular mystery.
I would tell you "There is not enough information".
Then you would tell me "But R07 said this or that! The answer is there, you have to find it!".
And I would tell you "Not, that is not the case. I will give you an example:"

In my story, there is a room. You have to tell the color of the door. That's it.
Well, you can't tell me the color of the door, right? You can't deduce it, you can't guess it. The information is not there.

Personally, what got me hooked to this in the first place was the mystery aspect. After R07 unleashed the bomb, I just had to accept that this is no mystery story. It's a fantasy story about love. There is no final mystery to solve.
If you think I'm wrong, then please, point me to a rundown of every detail of every mystery explained. At one point I thought we would have that someday, but no, we won't, because it's not a Detective Fiction story.
>>
>>81415195

> I find it more interesting that Bern, a person who would have considered every possible theory, just agreed that Natsuhi was the culprit and bet on it.

Well, you have to take in mind Bern doesn't know the truth about the games, and she doesn't care as long as that's a way to kill Beatrice. To her, it doesn't matter if it's the truth or not, as long as it makes sense as makes for a powerful weapon to deny Beatrice, nothing else matters.

> Something about Bern being so sure seems wrong to me and I can't put my finger on it.

Bern is kind of a misunderstood character. Most of the fandom mistakes her for a calculative troll but in reality, as someone who couldn't reach happiness herself and gave up on it (as Furude Rika), she just can't stand other people like Beatrice, who fight to get what will make them happy, to get what she couldn't have. Basically "if I couldn't be happy, none of you can't" kind of villain. She's just as emotional and prideful as any other character, it's just that many people are tricked by her gloomy ambient.
>>
>>81415576
What mysteries did you think there wasn't an answer to? They might not be satisfying answers to you but almost all of them are solved, and whether you are satisfied with them or not is subjective.
>>
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>>81415576
>"There is not enough information".

That... is why you failed.
>>
>>81415576

I'm pretty sure the mysteries he refers to are the first 4 episodes, episode 5 and 6 are extra hints, nothing else.

And as I said, all the mysteries are solvable, proved by Will when he solved them all on episode 7, you just have to give the right interpretation to what he says.
>>
>>81415670
it's ok, at least lamda still loves her
>>
>>81415830
Eh, I think 5 and 6 work as answer arcs in their own ways. 5 basically confirms gender/furniture complex origin and 6 confirms Shkanontrice and therefore the means and motive.
>>
>>81415690
It has been a long while, I don't remember the particular details of every murder. But take episode... six, was it? With the guest room, Natsuhi(?) hiding in the closet, Hideyoshi being staked by somebody. Did we get a full answer? Do we have a canon answer that can be deduced from the information in the novel?
But anyways, I digress. What I want to say is
>Goat nobbling on the small grain of bread of answer actually given by Ryukishi and defending it with the satisfaction of having the answer that fits the psychological aspect of the mystery instead of answering the mystery by its own terms.
What small grain of bread of answer? Do we have a solution or not? Because if we have, you can't call it small grain of truth, and if we don't, then why the hell do some people insist on "you have to look harder"?
>>
Some more synth up on this bitch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hokU6G8Qaxo
>>
>>81416041
Post more.
>>
>>81415927

Yeah, I don't bother much with episode 5 and 6's mysteries since I take them as answer arcs themselves, what really matters are the mysteries of episodes 1-4.

>>81415984

IIRC Natsuhi in the closet and Hideyoshi being staked by somebody was on episode 5. Very implied to be Yasu shooting him and placing the stake in the hole of the wound.

> What small grain of bread of answer? Do we have a solution or not? Because if we have, you can't call it small grain of truth, and if we don't, then why the hell do some people insist on "you have to look harder"?

There is, don't worry. Yasu has the gold, siblings wants gold, they'd do anything for gold, so if they want gold they better do what Yasu says, even if that means covering murders. Combine that with Kumawasa, Genji and Nanjo being accomplices and ShKanon and voilá! You can solve all the mysteries. Have fun!
>>
>>81415927
Except what people fail to notice is that EP7's tea part confirms that someone else than Yasu is the murderer.

Everyone seems to forget that and it annoys me.
People ignore that fact.
>>
>>81416240
Not to mention that EP 5 and 6 were not fully completed and should not be added into the gameboard, only taken as hints not as evidence.
>>
>>81416262

Episode 1-2 are the messages Yasu put in a bottle. Episode 3-4 are Ikuko and Tohya's interpretations of those messages while Tohya recovers his memories as Battler. All of them are "what if" made by Yasu and Ikuko/Tohya. They're not really what happened on Rokkenjima prime.

Episode 7's tea party shows what probably happened on Rokkenjima prime, which is implied, as you say, Yasu never got to murder anyone regardless of her plans, someone else murdered everyone.

See >>81399933
>>
>>81416262
We're talking about Yasu's intentions and the mysteries of the games. That it probably went awry in the real world and someone else (likely Kyrie) wound up as the real killer is irrelevant to that.
>>
>>81416152
W-why? But sure, I will.
Did somebody order some psycho-horror?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCiK7XBm0qI
Those few notes from witch in gold cenba make this so ridiculously spooky, it's not even funny.
>>
>>81416240
>There is, don't worry. Yasu has the gold, siblings wants gold, they'd do anything for gold, so if they want gold they better do what Yasu says, even if that means covering murders. Combine that with Kumawasa, Genji and Nanjo being accomplices and ShKanon and voilá! You can solve all the mysteries. Have fun!

And then people get angry when Ryukishi portrays mystery readers as Goat who would eat the whole island for its answers.
>>
>>81416240
>There is, don't worry. [...]
Okay. Yes, that's what I think. That's what I believe to be the last answer in regards to the mystery, if we don't go into the particular details.
Then why would anybody keep saying people who talk about the psychological aspect of the story forget about finding out the mystery? It has already been found out.
>>
>>81416526

Well, I may explain myself further. That's only the tools to solve the murders purely from a mystery perspective, but if you want to understand the methods and the motive, of course you must understand the heart.

Anon wanted to solve mysteries, I gave him the tools. It's his own business if he wants to understand the heart of a sexually confused girl.
>>
>>81416419
Oh no.

I meant the future shown in tea party (lion dying) not the alternate possible future of why Eva didn't tell the truth.

I'm not talking about Kyrie.

I'm talking about that moment where Bern shows that Lion will still die.
That's the part im talking about.

People forget that part. It implies a whole shitworm of cans

Basically if Lion did not have the same backstory of Yasu, it would mean that all events related to how anything related to the shakannon theory would have risen.

No buying people off for gold.
No split personality.
No relationship issue.

Something ELSE than yasu killed the family.

And that's my main issue with the whole love is the solution.

It isn't the solution because if it was Lion's future would not have ended that way.

There is no understanding of heart when the conditions for the issues of the heart to arise are not present.

And I also do not abide by the EP7 tea party being the closest solution for different key elements that show that every the future with Ange having Eva come back is False and not true.

Every single future with Ange is fake.
Bern and Lamba's presence themselves comfirm my theory by fanhawking their presence with Higurashi.

>>81416659
You gave him shitty tools.
Psychoanalysis is easier than mystery puzzles.
>>
Let's not forget our dear Love Examination.
Somebody is playing death poker and we're the prize... or maybe the stake.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCDOVEFQtVg
>>
>>81416633

> Then why would anybody keep saying people who talk about the psychological aspect of the story forget about finding out the mystery? It has already been found out.

Funny thing anon, all of these things are clues you wont reach unless you understand the drama.

All the siblings come from traumatic childhoods, they have warped perceptions of how healthy relationships work. As they said in episode 1, THEY WANTED MONEY MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE IN THIS WORLD. Unless you understand how desperate they were, you wouldn't be able to reach the conclusion that they would take the challenge of solving the epitaph if you didn't acknowledge they were that desperate.

Second, Yasu. Unless you don't try to understand how desperate, terrified and depressed she was, you won't reach to the conclusion that Shanon and Kanon have a motive to commit the murders: To stop being furniture, to reach the level of "human" by sealing the island on a cat box no one would be able to open.

Third, All the servants had a strong connection with Kinzo and all the Beatrices, unless you don't acknowledge that connection you wont reach to the conclusion that they would be loyal only to the person Kinzo loved the most above all: the descendant of her beloved Beatrice, Yasu.

Really, you can't understand the story unless you give it a look to the drama.
>>
>>81416950
The future with Lion dying is explained as the basic scenario that happened in Rokkenjima Prime. Kyrie took advantage of the bad situation created by the dirty Ushiromiya family history, the epitaph and the gold and the bomb. Many of the same key elements are there. The bomb, the gold, the desperation for money, those are the things that make the siblings willing to kill. The thing that's lacking in Lion's future, however, is the motive to turn the Rokkenjima explosion into a witch serial murder that will gain infamy.

>And I also do not abide by the EP7 tea party being the closest solution for different key elements that show that every the future with Ange having Eva come back is False and not true

The fuck are you going on about?
>>
>>81417285

By denying that the future with Ange is fake, Anon is free to deny anything proven by the future with Ange. What exactly doesn't make sense to you with that kind of future?
>>
>>81416950
I think you're wrong. Let me explain.
The promise (and all its causality tree) is the solution, the heart for almost every universe.
Lion's universe is different, right? Well, correct me if I'm wrong, because it's been years, but it's only been said that "he would have died the same", right?
Why not just consider that, as a plot device to induce absolute despair, R07 just said "Due to how fucked up the family is, even if Natsuhi accepts the baby, everything goes to shit, EVEN if not because of Lion/Yasu"? In other words, why not think that yes, Lion dies too, but in a totally different manner and in a totally different conflict not centered around him?
I could say, for example, "Well, too bad Yasu, even in the chance that you aren't thrown off the cliff, Hideyoshi goes batshit insane and kills everybody for money".
>>
>>81417085
That's kind of what I'm trying to argue for here.
Some people say "Stop talking about the heart, focus on the mystery", but the psychological aspects are kind of one and the same with the murders. It's not one or the other.
>>
And now for the original spooky theme.
There's something on this fucking island and I don't know what it is. I turn around but I can never catch it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mezmjTz8Cks
>>
>>81417439

I never gave too much thought on Lion's death, I just took it as Bern being as cruel as she could be. And after all, his world is a fictional one and even Bern said is just a side trip. It contributes to Yasu's character and her motives and traumas, but not to Rokkenjima prime.
>>
Posting some favorites:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWv7wABpQpo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZbPfDmw6hk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_Pesu1J2rc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhNzAXhDbfo
>>
>>81417813
That's an acceptable way to look at it, but I don't think there's a problem seeing Lion's world as a legitimate fragment if you accept the meta world and Bernkastel as being the same existence as from Higurashi. She talks at length about having to look hard through the sea to find him after all. But it's not really that important either way.
>>
>>81417439
That's where you'd be wrong.

See what I'm doing, and what Ryukishi did in that single moment, was remove the heart and any causality related to it.

Remove Yasu and you remove every single possibility related to love itself being the answer.

You're solution of bah someone else might have done it is horribly inconclusive to the previous facts shown.

By that extend I could just say Kinzo killed everyone cuz he crazy and shit.

With Lion dying and showing that someone else did the crime for reasons that are unrelated to love, it shows that Yasu = shakannon is not the solution and never was.

Because you are left with half solutions explaining how Lion would have been killed without a possible answer.

How can the killer have been killed if the elements and reasons for the killer to arise were never in place?
The answer is because the killer is not the killer. Someone else is the killer.

And you can't say it's a different person in that time since elements are still similar with each game.
Events of how each murder takes place are similar in each game to a certain extent.
Only how the murders take place are different.

>>81417813
>>81418045

It IS important.

You idiots are ignoring a key aspect.
Why did Lion have to die?

She is still a character, albeit a dead one, she is still relevant to the story.
You cannot ignore a character.
>>
>>81417285
Every future Ange is shown is ambiguous and possibly false to an extent.

EP4 is completely false, including her death on rokkenjima, thought that could be taken as fact if you compare the rest of the future timelines.

Ange is shown in EP6 to call out on featherine using her in EP4 and making her die.
Which would imply that EP4 never took place.

But it brings into account to what is real and what is just fiction created by Tohya.
This brings my point I been thinking about is how Higurashi and Umineko are related.

Bare with me on this one. It's sort of an fan wank but it is still relevant and possibly a keypoint into the future timeline which gives us a clue to EP3-4.

There are elements of Higurashi, fanservice if you will, that can be easily noticed and seen as full on connected.

Higurashi being connected with Umineko.

This is very plainly easy to see with Bern figure and personality, Lambda figure and personality and Okonogi.

At first, while reading the story, you can see that both are connected, seeing as Okonogi looks older than he did in Higurashi and that they are both voiced by the same guy, making him 100% the same guy.

Everything seems perfect if you leave it there.
''Ah it's cute, a nice fanservice and nothing more'' you might say.

But if you go further and try to connect the dots further you find a hidden trap brilliantly placed by Ryukishi.

Lambda is the trigger of the trap.

One of main connection of both stories is how the suffering of Furude Rika created Bern.
This is explained in EP6.

But this comes into a big issue with Lambda.

Who does she represent?

Obviously it would be Miyo, and left alone, it would work, she suffered an extended amount of time and would have ascended.

continued in part 2...
>>
So Yasu is basically Angela from Sleepaway Camp?
>>
>>81418167
Wow you're really fixated on this idea of being a single constant solution equating to a signle consistent killer. That's not how things work at all. In as shitty a setting as Rokenjima and the Ushiromiya family, even if Yasu wasn't there, someone else could have instigated a massacre. Not to mention the premise of Umineko is explaining the witch murders and the magic, which means yes the Yasu answer is necessary for that question.

Did you not get the point when EP7 beats you over the head with "the killer could have been anyone" as soon as Yasu's plan goes wrong? Did you not get the idea behind the deliberate random element behind Yasu's roulette and what it meant.

Also

>Lion
>she
>>
So what does Ryu07's hint that the Battler we see on the boat in the end might not be the actual Battler? Or that the Battler we see during the entire game might not be the real Battler either.
>>
>>81418322
There is no issue with Lambda. She is a witch whose existence predates Higurashi, but she got involved because she liked Takano and lent her the power of certainty. This is explained in her TIP. Ryukishi confirmed that Lambda made no actual appearance in Higurashi itself and her design was a trap to make people think she was directly linked to Takano.

You seem confused because you're missing a lot of information.
>>
>>81396512 (OP)
My dick exists in your mouth #told
>>
>>81418424
>So what does Ryu07's hint that the Battler we see on the boat in the end might not be the actual Battler?
It's a fantasy scene

>Or that the Battler we see during the entire game might not be the real Battler either.
Confirmed red herring
>>
>>81418167
>Because you are left with half solutions explaining how Lion would have been killed without a possible answer.
>it is horribly inconclusive
No, no. Lion's universe is one in a million billions, found by Bernkastel to... I forget really, but wasn't it to induce Battler or Beato to give up or something?
It's a very, very rare universe. An extremely unique universe where things change from the time Natsuhi didn't throw the baby off the cliff.
I don't know about you, but me, I don't have a problem with that particular, improbable, thought-up-to-be-a-plot-device universe to not have a solution, or to conflict with the rest of the universes.
>>
>>81418361
I might be fixated on that point but my point is still valid.

How can Lion have died she/he/it had no reason to become a murderer.

If Yasu never came into being, how did tragedy arise.

It means that Someone else than Yasu=shannon is the murderer.

Fuck love and everything related to love.

My point will still stand until someone explains me how Lion could have died.
>>
>>81418506
Kyrie killed him out of greed. Probably the same as Rokkenjima Prime. What exactly do you want? The games present scenarios where Yasu's plans went forward, in Prime they got disrupted from the beginning, and in Lion's world they obviously didn't exist but the setting and the family are still shitty enough that he still dies.
>>
>>81418506
>My point will still stand until someone explains me how Lion could have died.
Somebody killed him. Seriously, simple as that. In the rare case where Natsuhi doesn't drop him off the cliff, somebody turns out to be the trigger of a different tragedy. Lion dies.
Maybe you haven't consumed much time-travel fiction?
>>
Your mentally unstable boss raised his daughter to be his own personal cum dumpster and you fear he might do the same thing with his grandchild/child. Which of the following do you do?

[ ] Go to the police
[ ] Get him some kind of mental help
[ ] Slap his shit
[ ] Dress child up like a little girl and hope for the best


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