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>>61125229
I could answer your question if I didn't drop this pile of garbage after the first episode.

>>61125263
Actually yes I recently caught back up to the series a few days ago. I'm not sure how those were particularly evident of cliche though.

>/a/
>actually liking anime
pick one
I haven't seen a single episode of GC, but its a pretty common rule

>>61125266
What's wrong with my post?

>>61125280
What was so bad about its first episode?

>>61125337
>>>/v/

Just watch episode 10 - 12 they had all cliches mixed into one

don't you even compare this shit to code geass op. cg is actually fun to watch and lelouch is fabulous. shu on the other hand is a bitch faggot turned out to be DARKNESS 2.0

Why do you care so much? Are you new here?

If you're not, you should know by now that any anime that's popular (at least on /a/) get the same treatment. It would get called shit, or whatever buzzword you can think of.

Learn to ignore generic troll replies.

>>61125337
The problem here I'm feeling is more so that people are treating the show very poorly here for reasons I don't understand why. It's constantly called 'cliche" and "generic" but I'm failing to see how it is more so than most anime out there. Even looking at a very popular series here such as Madoka Magicka, it was very derivative but it doesn't seem to be a constant complain about it.

>>61125396
Couldn't you say that everything is "cliche mixed into one"? I believe what makes things unique is how they mix tropes to create a unique whole.

Could you name some anime like Guilty Crown?

>>61125462
How dare you try to discuss anime here, GET OUT!

It was overly predictable but took TOO long to go through with it. Some aspects are not developed enough and the completely dull MC and 'love interest' are horrendous.

>>61125448
Well it has the same writers as Code Geass, and a parallels between the initial premise. So even if you don't like Guilty Crown (an opinion your entitled to), it doesn't necessarily negate the similarities between them.

I've found it very fun to watch. I recently caught up with 6 or 7 episodes a few days ago and it was one of the more exciting nights of anime I had in awhile. It actually reminds me back in 2008 when I caught up with Code Geass.

As for Shu, I believe he's developed very well. He's been a main attraction to this series for me even though I generally dislike the archetype he's a part of.

I think you need to watch more anime.

This show is bad with its cliche and god-awful MC but I still enjoyed it though.The latest episode is much better than other episode.Finally Shu has lost it and I hope he stays that way.

I think people expected more from this show since this is directed by the guy who make CG but in the end it is just a mediocre show

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2cvmS4OITE

>>61125462
>Could you name some anime like Guilty Crown?
Code Geass, Evangelion, Gundam Seed Destiny.

>>61125571
That video might be my new guilty pleasure.

>>61125457
I am not new.

And as far as most popular anime, I would not say they get the same treatment such as I pointed out Madoka which is an anime I enjoyed quite a bit. It is probably as derivative as Guilty Crown but it's never really treated as a complaint much in comparison.

I think it would be easier for me to accept if they were just "troll posts", but now they seem to be something that people genuinely believe and if you express differently people may lash out at you.

I think it's important to talk about this so maybe we can cause people to think a little more about why they say these things.

>>61125571
Could you explain how it is cliche? And what is wrong with Shu? Do you dislike him just because he's not "cool" or "moe"? I feel like he's been a very well developed character so far.

Personally this show has pretty much met my expectations. I was a fan of Code Geass and I'm a fan of this too.

>beta mc
>randomly meets girl of his dreams
>only he can save the world
>betas out, she shows up at his school
>beach episode
>black guy dies first in an episode
>school fair episode
>eva-esque plug suits and robot control
>character has obvious crush on mv
>she dies
>believe in yourself
>the power of friendship
>only kids can have this power

and i could fucking go on. that is a sample of the many clichés GC uses.

>>61125675
He doesn't have to be a badass but him being a massive beta really turns most people away.

>>61125448
geass was shit too

>>61125581
But don't you see you're comparing three shows that are themselves very different from one another? (particularly evangelion from GSD and CG). Don't you see the problem here?

We can look at anything and find superficial elements it shares with other series, but this doesn't necessarily make it "cliche".

>>61125762
Give up, anon. /a/ has never listened to reason, and never will.

Just like what you like and don't worry if other people say it's shit. You'll save yoursel a lot of trouble.

>>61125675

VERY predictable early on, still is kind of. Those predictions took far too many episodes to come true, slowly the character development to a halt at times. Shu should have broken down, manned up and questioned Gai about what the fuck is going on within 3 episodes, he dropped himself down to pawn position on his own, and I dislike him due to the fact he has a fucking dull and lifeless personality. 'Manning up the beta' isn't a bad cliche, but Shu should have manned up fucking ages ago.

>>61125639

I just hope you can find someone who you can discuss it with SERIOUSLY.

This is fucking /a/. People are just going to disagree with you just for the sake of disagreeing.

You must be very dumb if you can't see the cliches.
They're right there, staring you in the face.

Right fucking there.

>>61125229

Why isn't the top receiver of that pistol sliding back?

>>61125762
Stop caring so much, you shouldn't care about this boards opinion on things.

>>61125747

First season came across as well written compared to GC, didn't really derail until Mao didn't die the first time. But people enjoy CG for the atmosphere more than anything, GC just don't have one.

>>61125729
These elements you're listing can be in and vary between many different shows, and many of these are small (not sure what you mean by "black guy dies first episode") or one aren't really tropes (eva plugsuits).

Could you name some anime that are actually like Guilty Crown, particularly recently? I feel that your disregarding the elements that make it fresh and unique by focusing on any elements that you can find in many other anime. For instance its setting and most significant story elements really are not common in anime today.

>>61125353
not that guy, but the problem is the same one moe pirates has. while the first episode wasn't bad, it wasn't good either, so while I didn't hate it, what I was left with was complete disinterest. didn't continue watching because I didn't care what happened to any of the characters

>>61125675
It's CG meets Eva.

Beta boy suddenly thrust into a crazy circumstance after meeting a kuudere girl that has a relationship with an older man that looks down on him and he doesn't understand, mechs, super science, beta boy is the only one that has the special power, coming of age, some more girls, bad guys that are bad because THEY ARE BAD!

Do I really need to keep going? It's all been done before, years before.

>>61125886

You need to understand it's backlash at GC for NOT being CG S3. There was massive hype and build up, and what we got wasn't anything like CG so the hype backlash starts. People completely new to anime should like GC.

You're probably new to anime if you don't see why something like Guilty Crown would be considered cliche. Almost every aspect of the series is derivative of something else and then there are outright cliches like how the void power only works on teenagers or how an entire terrorist group is full of people 17 and younger. There's also plotholes and things that don't even make sense, like how in episode 12 Gai and an Endlave got to where Shu was without there even being a way there in the first place. I could go on and list more, but if you were paying attention to the show then you should already recognize most of what happened to begin with.

Is it a bad show? No, not at all. It's a lot of fun to watch and that's what matters, and the best part is that it keeps getting better and better each episode rather than stagnating or becoming worse like most shows do. It just isn't something that you should take seriously or think about in too much detail. It's a flashy and fun show without much depth.

>>61125842
because the animators dont hang out on /k/

>>61125817

I am inclined to agree(?)

Simply because GC started quite poorly and it gradually got better as the show goes on but the whole derision towards the earlier episodes never really go away.

And you should know by now that every popular show in /a/ got the same treatment so I don't really consider this a special case.

>>61125958
There's your answer OP, it came from Komeiji, hope you don't hate him because he made the best point in the thread.

>>61125229
why is her left arm longer than her right arm?

>>61125742
Well I'll point to Madoka Magicka again which is very popular. Personally I found Madoka to be a very annoying main character until the ending, and unlike Guilty Crown there wasn't that much focus on developing her like there is with Shu.

I feel that Guilty Crown has been a very good coming-of-age story so far, and what makes Shu special is that he doesn't just come off as a mere self-insert like many male protagonists in anime today. It seems to me anime fans can be very superficial at times, where if a character is not "cool" or "moe" they disregard the actual importance of being a character. Like looking at some things people are saying now, some people are saying Shu is only good now because he's "badass". I don't think that's right.

OP try google "Guilty Crown cliche" and see not just /a/ say it's cliche

>>61125886
right, the elements are in a lot of different shows. but most don't use EVERY FUCKING TROPE/TRAIT/STEREOTYPE IMAGINABLE.
the black guy dies first thing happened when everyone turns to crystals, they show the headquarters of the government or whatever and a black guy crystalizes. there were a few threads about it. and i think there were basses shopped into black people hands as well.
>setting
>not common
>it takes place in japan in the future
i seriously hope you're kidding

i can't think of anything that is unique about the show. the king's power - code geass, and beta mc getting thrust into big situation with pretty girls around him isn't unique either.

the only things good about this show include:
animation
secondary characters
soundtrack

>>61125958
>Is it a bad show? No, not at all.

Its objectively a bad show, full stop.
But that doesn't mean people couldn't enjoy it
I enjoyed Megaman Seven

>>61125229
Sorry.
I dropped this pile of shit after 2eps.
What I want to know, how could people waste their time on guilty shit when they are other much better show around?

>unlike Guilty Crown there wasn't that much focus on developing her like there is with Shu.
are retarded? there was a huge thread today about how shu has had no development, how he went from beta-2011 to alpha-2012

>I feel that Guilty Crown has been a very good coming-of-age story so far
stopped reading there.

I can't even remember the black guy.

>>61125958
>>61125942

I wholeheartedly agree with these.

GC is show of the year. Go back to your moeshit cancer, haters.

>>61126071
>>61125571
Watch it.

>>61126049
>I enjoyed Megaman Seven

Christ, I thought I'm the only person in /a/ who genuinely enjoyed that show.

>>61125837
I can find cliches in a lot of anime. My main gripe here is that it's Guilty Crown who's being attacked so much. Why? It is in my view very refreshing.

>>61125800
Could you be more specific on how it is predictable and character development has come to a "halt"? I feel that Shu in particular has always been developed.

Considering Shu's personality and Gai's personality, I don't see why it would necessarily be expected that he'd "man up". The thing is this from the start has been a coming of age story. Development should just be a flip of the switch I would say. Even with episode 15, what we were really seeing was the result of character development that was leading up to this moment.

>Hears Guilty Crown good anime
>Read opinions
>Beta MC
>Fuckthatshit.jpg

>>61126117
No longer beta. He's king now.

>>61126049
On a qualitative level it's mediocre, but it isn't BAD. I've seen shows much much worse than Guilty Crown that get praised pretty heavily. It's cliche, it's generic, and it's full of bad writing, but it's also a hell of a lot of fun to watch and has great art and music to back it up.

Seeing a beta faggot of a protagonist develop like this is also refreshing.

>>61126018

Shu, not self insert? What? He starts off as a meek nihilist beta who wants nothing to do with anything. He has some kind of PTSD that blocks out his entire childhood of his 'sister' and best friend dying/leaving.

A personality-less shitstain is dropped into his lap and suddenly he has a crush on it. For much of the series he doesn't have a fucking OPINION on anything and is being led around by others.

>>61126138
And it only took him 68% of the show!

>>61126138
>he clearly said 'oni'
>fansub fucked that scene up
>GCfag swallow it whole

>>61126109
Hell man, I think there's someone here other than me who doesn't hate the Eureka Seven movie, there's always someone.

>>61126171
He said "Ou ni naru".

>>61126111
because they don't use some clichés. it uses
every single one. ever.
>>61126077
he was a background character. it was an ongoing joke for a while. when people were randomly being crystalized before shoe saved the day, a black guy was the first out of a group of people to die. so the racist/cliché jokes ensued

>>61126171
so he's an ogre now?

>>61126138

In episode 15? I don't think I can take so much weak and GSD's "I don't want to do this, why? Why?" Bullshit for 15 fucking episodes.

SAKIFAG LIVES AGAIN

>>61126171
He said "Boku wa ou ni naru". That literally means "I'll become the king".

>>61126071

Nothing in this season is as flashy/bombastic as GC though and this kind of shows always tends to get discussed more.

It's also an original production so there is always an element of unpredictability around. I bet none of you have seen this latest development of Shoe forming his own Brotherhood of Nod coming.

>>61126186
Fund it.

>>61126192
He's not all that weak other than episode 10, but people will disagree. He always ends up saving everyone anyway.

Let's hope Season will be better than this one.
If there was no R1 in Code Geass, it would have been the most terrible show ever made since R2 was catastrophic. (except the last episode).

>>61126173
>doesn't hate the Eureka Seven movie
Mah nigga,the movie wasn't even that bad.It is interesting to see how the alternate universe E7 works

>>61125942
But you're listing very superficial elements here, and saying essentially that just because something shares a few elements between something else, that makes something "cliche". I'm sure people wouldn't say Evangelion is cliche for instance, just because of the anime it was inspired by, such as Devilman and Ideon.

>>61125958
The problem here is that nearly everything is a derivative of something else in some way. I wouldn't say its fair to take superficial elements and mark a series as a whole being "cliche" because it has them. What makes a story unique I'd say is how it arranges all the elements it contains.

I'm finding that people are having a very hard time coming up with series like it, outside of one or two that share superficial elements and are otherwise different.

This is the myanimelist you posted here, so I'm assuming these are all the anime you've seen. Could you list anime like Guilty Crown?

http://myanimelist.net/animelist/Veronin

>>61126207
Aquarion Evol.

>>61126186
we ogre now

>>61126173
I didn't hate it, I just thought it wasn't as good as the series.

Still a decent film though.

>>61126072
he went from beta-2011 to sasukeDARKNESS-2012
this show is bad, as in really BAD

>>61126207
Not having source material means you won't get spoiled which a lot of people like.
GC has kind of been it's own little party so far that's been pretty predictable yet fun to watch.
I've just been enjoying the ride and all the images people have been posting and discussion has generally been civil.
It's fun to poke fun at this series with /a/.

why do people say shu isn't beta anymore? he just turned into angry teenager mode ( felt like i was watching naruto or some shounen) after one of his friends died. no sign of development here, just some forced "my friend died and now i am DARK SHOE".

>>61126232
This nigga knows what's up

So this show is like Akikan?
So bad that people just watch it to laugh at its retarded plot?
I will pass.

>>61126232
Not many are watching that unfortunately

>>61126246

No, he didn't

>>61125817
I know. I can't particularly expect GREAT discussion out of /a/ but I wanted to talk about this. I think it's important to do so.

>>61125994
I disagree. I think it started quite well.

However I do agree with your sentiment there that maybe it's just something that kind of "stuck" and people keep using it even though it doesn't make much sense to do so anymore (though again I'd argue that it was never very applicable)

omaigawd
ALL of anime is fuckin' cliché!!! CG, GL, fuckin madoka is cliché too! Korewa Zombie is even made to parody clichés on purpose! Steins;Gate is a pile of cliche, but combined in a brilliant way, making it the best thing I've seen.
Anime is not two years old, you can google it if you don't believe me.

GC is awesome. It has a sufficient amount of cliché, but that doesn't make it any less awesome, just like with S;G

If you like other genres - fine, go watch some lolicon shit, for all i care. But don't call something "shit" without watching the whole thing.

I like how people immediately associate being in despair or emotional with "lolsasuke3.51491241"

>>61126148

What the fuck Komeiji? I remember you hating on Guilty Crown. What's the change of heart?

Also, that post of yours has the same exact words on the posts people made when replying to you. GC is not bad, not good but it is surely entertaining.

>>61126267
Shu is going tostay up all night

>>61126214

Okay, So you want me to watch this? I am afraid of the whiny crap that might potentially come out of his mouth every episode.

that aside, why does OP sound so butthurt over /a/ bashing Guilty Crown?

>>61126303
look, i'm no sheldon fan either, but i feel people are entitled to change their opinion a lot with this show.

>>61126207

>mfw TIBERIUM = VOID CRYSTALS

Holy shit why have I not thought of this before?!!!

>>61126312
i would say don't bother at this point. the fun part about it is making fun of it on /a/, and discussing it. i would never put it in a backlog

>>61126312

Just like how everyone is butthurt when /a/ bash a show they like. I can't believe you asked that. You must be stupid to not know why.

shu is as annoying as shinn from destiny

>>61126348
Ah, the last of CnC games. It was really fun.

>>61126024
Well I would say that considering /a/ is pretty much the biggest anime forum in the English-speaking world, a lot of anime fans repeat memes that they find here. Not very surprising to me that you'd find people saying things outside of it, much like "Code Geass" being a "trainwreck" which started here or "waifu"

>>61126029
I've never heard of a black guy dying being a cliche. And my point here kinda is that if you look hard enough you can find everything is derivative in some way.

Could you name anime that are like Guilty Crown and have its setting?

The kings power I'm sure is an allusion of some sort to Code Geass, considering the same writers, but it is very different in its application.

>>61126350
This, the fun part has definitely been discussing it with /a/.

>>61126303

Well to be fair, the show has improved a lot and the latest development has been unpredictable.

>>61126072
I'm failing to see how he had no development. He's always introspecting about how he wants to grow and become more, and how the events of the series are affecting him. That in my opinion is character development.

>>61126412

Don't bother. I know /a/ is going to call any development made forced anyway. I already called it since the first few episodes - when Shoe is still a cry baby.

I just can't find it on the archive. /a/ is really predictable.

>>61126363

Kanes wrath is the best. There is no CnC4.

Either way, it is possible the magic rock is alien in nature. But it's not as aggressive as tiberium, yet. There is still an air of 'We can stop it when ever we want but are withholding the vaccine/off switch in-favor of chaos, war and money' for as yet we don't actually know Anti-bodies motivations, beyond being a group that's pretty homicidal that loves chaos. Which is fucking stupid since it's over half done and we don't know motivations.

seeing the anime being shit on /a/ made me start watching this. uh. thanks ?

>>61126182
>because they don't use some clichés. it uses
>every single one. ever.
I'm failing to understand what you mean by that even on a hyperbolic level. Simply, if it was this "cliche" I'd think people would have a much easier time naming shows that are like it. People haven't really done that. They've more listed off elements and decided that because these elements occurred in another anime, that proves that Guilty Crown is "generic".

I think the problem might be that people have been told it was "generic" so they have looked hard at finding anything that would prove that "claim" in a form of confirmation bias.

>>61126371
TTGL

Seriously they have the same setting where the evil goverment oppressing people and it is up to the rebels to defeat them.You have Simon/Shu who is the beta MC and a mentor who will guide him to be a badass that is Kamina/Gai.

>>61126412
he's the only character with actual decent development in the show. Daryl has some, but it's stupid as hell.

>>61126479
That's not unusual.

>>61126371
>I've never heard of a black guy dying being a cliche
are you kidding? the black guy always dies first in media. fucking google it, or learn to watch ANYTHING.

you also selectively respond to posts which is annoying me so i will stop here.

>>61126371
>I've never heard of a black guy dying being a cliche.

It's one of the most well known and joked about cliches in all forms of media, especially in western culture but pretty much everywhere.

>>61126158
Shu started off as archetypal, but what I mean by he isn't merely a "self-insert" is that he's not just stand in for the audience with little to no growth. This is something you particularly see in adaptations of harem/dating sim adaptations.

>For much of the series he doesn't have a fucking OPINION on anything and is being led around by others.
I would say this was kind of the point of his character. He's indecisive and lacks confidence, but he wants to and is growing from that.

>>61126499
It's like they didn't know what to do with Daryl's character.
At first he's a psychopath and now he's pretty much the most sane character in the entire show.

This is looking to be quite the Thursday.

In just a few short hours this whole damn board will be filled with GC threads.And I can't wait to participate in them.

>>61126499
Daryl has died like three times already.

>>61126561

Good lord, I'm not sure my body is ready. Last episode we had 30 - 40 fully maxed Guilty Crown threads that lasted throughout the weekend and it was exhausting as fuck.

>>61126569
Inb4 clones and they bring Gai and Hare back

>>61126382
>the latest development has been unpredictable.
because the seires has shown itself to be so fucking unwilling to commit.

Face it, defenders, Guilty Crown just lacks ideas. Let's leave aside the stupid writing, and how the mecha are literally just tacked on (and the whole fucking music thing, too). Let's leave aside how it loves to introduce some invariably shallow issue (baww Souta is DIFFICULT, for example), tie it in with the episode's plot, and then resolve it in the most shallow way possible. All you have is an emotionally dry piece of shit that steals from Code Geass and a host of other shows. Want to call it "appropriation"? Try pointing out what it does right.

Liking Guilty Crown is similar to liking Angel Beats. Both shows steal from others (Geass and Haibane form their foundations) and apply those stolen ideas in the most stupid ways possible. Liking either makes your taste shit.

>>61126412

He's had some. Far from enough or what would be expected by now after revelations of his past connections and what he has done. Even if he's trying to 'forget and ignore' everything and return to his shell, he's not doing a good job of it. Either he's lying about wanting to hide in his corner or he secretly wants to be in the middle of all the chaos. Not to mention he hasn't questioned his parents etc which is the biggest issue to me as it would be the starting point of finding out what the fuck is going on.

He's been built up as a meek retard who cannot think for himself, even now after hare's death and 'I'll be king' moment he's still going to be guided by his posse, not thinking this shit through himself, for if he was to divulge all the information he knows, they'd tell him to fuck off and question his mother.

>>61126569
He's like Patrick Colasour. He's immortal.

>>61126595
Last week was a fucking shit storm.

>>61126560
Yeah, I guess patricide does wonders for a person's sanity. I also thought he really hated Shoe, but didn't really seem all that bothered by him lately.

>>61126542
>>61126511
Well if this is a Western culture cliche, I don't see how you could apply it to anime.

To be honest it feels like you're trying very hard here to take any element in the show and associate it with a "cliche". Do you really think that's fair?

>>61126492
I wouldn't say that Gurren Lagann was the originator of the rebel group trope as that's been pretty common in japanese media for awhile now. I would say that Guilty Crown is more reminiscent of a late 90s JPRG like Final Fantasy VII.

this show would have been better if the MC is a different guy. i've even a comedic MC like tomoki from SnO or even keima would work

>>61126488

It's more that the events are not surprising, it feels it doing nothing new that wasn't predicted in a thread somewhere. Generic is not BAD, it's how it's executed.

>>61126595
>>61126561
I think my body is ready
Also, is commie going to take their fucking time again? I refuse to watch 480PD Hadena

>>61126608

Why so hipster?

>>61126312
Fuck if I know. Sakifag's been stubbornly defending GC with the same blockheaded script ever since it started. It's a waste of time arguing with him, because he just recycles the same shit in the next thread, as if the previous N exchanges never happened.

I was so happy to leave this bullshit behind when I dropped the show. Not exactly pleased to see he's up to his old tricks again. Assuming he ever stopped.

>>61126231
>The problem here is that nearly everything is a derivative of something else in some way.
Yeah, but not "almost every aspect" like I said. They'll usually draw inspiration from other series and have some similar aspects, but it's rare for it to be as derivative as something like Guilty Crown. It's essentially the child of Code Geass and Evangelion and that's not exactly a bad thing either. Hell, it's the reason why me and most people are enjoying it. It's just impossible to deny how similar it is to those two shows. Even the people behind the show recognized the similarities between Shu and Shinji in an interview and the whole premise is almost entirely the same as Code Geass, taking away Britannia, emperors and queens, and replacing it with a setting that feels much more modern.

The whole relationship between Shu and Gai reminds me of Simon and Kamina from TTGL and the dark depressive phase that he's going through right now reminds me of Simon. Eureka Seven has some similarities too, but the tone of the two are completely different.

If you want me to find a show that's exactly like Guilty Crown, I can't because it doesn't exist. It draws from a variety of shows (Code Geass especially) and feels generic and cliche in a lot of ways because of that.

>>61126303
When I hated on the show that was back when it first started airing and was hated on by almost everybody on the board. The show WAS garbage back then, but it's been getting significantly better as it's progressed to the point where I genuinely enjoy it now. It won't be getting a 9/10 and making its way onto my top lists or anything, but it's a lot of fun to watch. More fun than anything else that's airing right now.

>>61126670
I just download NicoNico's rip.

>female characters exist only to serve as lust objects for the males, they never take the initiative
>Inori is an autist sex object
>cripple girl orgasms when she is hit
>Hare had no character beyond devotion for the protagonist; she was killed for no reason other than giving the main character motivation
>the student council president exists only to be ineffective and show how of inferior she is the MAN, be it Shu or Gai

Guilty Crown confirmed for most sexist show of the season.

>>61126670
>480PD
I see what you did there

>>61126674
It ain't gonna work, faggot.

>>61126670
Just get Nico.

>>61126639
>Well if this is a Western culture cliche, I don't see how you could apply it to anime.
They said ESPECIALLY in the west, and specifically stated this cliche exists in pretty much ALL forms of media. Anime is not an exception, black people die first in anime all the time.
Good lord what is wrong with you

>>61126670
Probably, commie use to work on GC first and get it out before everything else but now for some stupid ass reason they are releasing all their Thursdays shows at one time.

Somehow I keep forgetting that this show is being produced by Production IG and not Sunrise. Though I guess even Sunrise would be unable to create a plot so thin and full of holes as this. I simply can’t believe how terribly lazy the writing in GC is, and this is not to mention the character cast completely void of any charm or depth. I really did expect more out of IG, but I guess with all the big names on the roster they’re so gung-ho about creating a franchise that they forgot about creating a story for it first.

Long story short, Guilty Crown assumes that you, the viewer, are a complete moron. Let’s start with the first episode, when Inori and Shuu meet. The bad guys bust in, and apprehend the injured Inori. They know she took the Void Genome vial, and obviously want it back. They also notice Shuu, and arrest him…no? Well, at least search him? Nope. Instead they drag Inori back to the party van before getting their dumb heads together and realizing she doesn’t have the vial anymore. It sure must be easy to become a cop in the future Japan.

>>61126796
Eugh, if only the jackass leader would get over himself, they'd be the best.

>>61126875
Being a good wimp of a protag that he is, Shuu ends up taking the vial to Gai, Inori’s boss. However the Evil Oppressive Government is pissed and comes calling before they finish their chitchat. Gai runs off to command his forces, but before he does, he of course takes the vial from Shuu and uses it to receive the Void Genome powers…not. He tells Shuu to hold onto the vial instead. Not to anybody’s surprise, Shuu accidentally ends up using the vial and gets the powers for himself. Gai is mad at Inori for letting this happen because the Void Genome was meant for him. Way to go, hotshot.

Now, we’ll assume the baddies never figured out Shuu’s identity from their mechas’ video feeds that showed a high school student swinging a big sword around. He gets to go back to school after his heroic deeds, fine. But it sure is nice of them to let Inori waltz around the education system despite being a known member of a terrorist organization. Hell, you’d think her role as a high profile vocalist would already ring a lot of alarm bells, but apparently in the future education is taken very seriously. They may have uneducated terrorists in the Middle East but not in my back yard! Though Gai does state that terrorists aren’t granted any human rights…oh well, lol.

>>61126702
This is how life works buddy. Females are the inferior sex.

It's a terrible show that is fun to watch.
I wouldn't really call it cliche, but the writing is rather bad and the show explains jack fucking shit and when it tries to, it resorts to simple technobabble.
Also, I don't think you realize that even though cliches exists everywhere, some shows can pull them off while others can't. GC is the latter.

>>61126702

Well, Inori also appears to have been brought up (how? if she is a clone) by Gai to be a killing machine, considering her size we must assume she is ~16 but that's impossible unless she somehow escaped from a research lab during Lost Christmas. Cripple is an idiot who thinks her pathetic mech is great back up, who as yet have very little history, why does she agree with Gai, who trained her etc. Kuroneko is fanservice in a VR controlled bubble. How did these kids ever get this way if for 10 years they lived in the virus zone with fuck all help and tech?

The series is all over the place for the teen terrorists.

>>61126901
Finally, in the4th episode 3rd episode (looks like my brain already shorted out while just writing about this) we’ve got a junkie who likes to get his stuff from the around terrorist hideout. Gai wants Shuu to find him because he’s a witness who could blow their cover, having seen Inori and Shuu together – like every soldier out there they actually fought? It still baffles me that in the future where mechas are remotely piloted nobody figured out to check the incoming visual feed from the machines if they need to identify enemy combatants. Not to mention that Inori should already be pretty damn known terrorist, having been captive at least once. Oh oh oh guys I just got a great idea! How about we send her to a public school to do nothing at all while Shuu is sent on a quest for a person nobody knows anything about, except that he attends the school, and what his Void looks like?

Oh wait, how do they know which school the witness attends if they don’t know his name, what he looks like, or even his god damn gender?

>>61126924
This would all be forgivable if the show had at least something going for it, but that’s the problem: Guilty Crown just doesn’t have anything to call its saving grace. It looks good, sure. But this isn’t the year 2007, chrissakes. We’ve got good looking shows around every corner because the industry figured out it’s easier to cut back on anything but the visuals rather than the other way around. People like to compare GC to Code Geass, so fair enough, let’s do that. Geass was full of stupidities and plot holes, and the second season was just pure trolling on Sunrise’s part to see how far they could take the bullshitting. However, in addition to looking decent Geass relied on its character chemistry to carry lot of the stuff through. This is a critical part where Guilty Crown just fails to deliver – its character cast is so utterly insipid and standard with a Shinji-clone protag, main female with the personality of a cardboard sign, a mentor character whose “brilliant” plans are just complete nonsense, and a bunch of bad guys probably borrowed from Team Rocket. In this regard Guilty Crown is even worse than Shana – it tries really hard to be flashy and cool, all the while being a stale pile of colorless, odorless mass.

>>61126875
>>61126901

No remember Geass has so many plot points developed in season 1 that got absolutely abandoned by season 2, even then the whole magic aspect is glossed over and there's fuck all world development outside China and Japan (I'd have loved to see those few countries and their commanders planning against Charles), Snizel (sp) got taken out too fast. It's one of their weakest series and why second season fucking sucks.

>>61126685
The main issue here I'm drawing with your post is that you seem to be conflating similarities something may have with another show as evidence of being "cliche". I would say that nearly every anime draws elements of inspiration from something else. For instance Evangelion is well-known to be inspired by Devilman and Runaway Spaceway Ideon as well as other anime and shows like Ultraman. Code Geass was heavily inspired by Gundam and at the same time meant to play somewhat of an opposite to Gundam SEED. Gurren Lagann was heavily inspired by Ken Ishikawa and Go Nagai mecha anime and was full of references to other past anime.

So you're comparing anime that are themselves kind of derivative, and at the same time very different from one another. Don't you see how this is a problem where you treat Guilty Crown as being cliche because it has a few superficial similarities with them?

As for Code Geass, I wouldn't say the setting is all that much like Guilty Crown outside of Japan being oppressed by a former government. And the storyline is clearly very different as well outside of the similarities between the void and the geass powers, which are very different from one another and applied in the series differently. I would expect to some degree there would be some similarities between them though considering they are the same writers.

As for the relationship between Shu and Gai, this is actually pretty common in anime. It's certainly not something that I would equate to Gurren Lagann because the mentor relationship is kind of an anime staple.

I think it's important to name shows like it, that way we can prove whether people are genuine and have people think about whether what they're saying is really accurate or fair to the show. In my view it isn't so I wanted to make this thread.

>>61126875
>>61126901
>>61126924
>>61126954
http://re-jinx.me/2011/10/30/guilty-crown-is-horse-shit-and-heres-why/

You have to love the way reviewers handle Guilty Crown sometimes.

>>61126702
>leaving out Tsumugi
And if anything, most of the females in this show are shown to be strong and independent which also contrasted Shu being a faggot at the beginning. Even the kindest girl, Hare, knew how to speak up and do her shit.

>>61127019
See
>>61126954

We all know Geass is shit and a guilty pleasure at best, but GC takes it to a whole new level.

>>61126954
I now understand why people don't like it.
Regardless I will still watch it and I will enjoy it.

>>61126954
Now then, how has GC changed over the 10 or so episodes since?
Not by much at all. GC’s numerous problems plague it just as much as they did three months ago, and this is no wonder since they stem from the very fundamentals. The script keeps wobbling around, and the director whose job is to adapt the said script isn’t exactly doing a great job either. The show has four different people listed being responsible of the script which does raise a potential issue of failed coordination mixed with general incompetence, and the obvious lack of creative passion. Guilty Crown is puzzling in the sense that it gives off every indication of being created as a marketable franchise, yet it completely misses most of the potential cash-in-points such as insert songs – Inori for instance is left almost completely ignored as a musical marketing element. In a sense this is even more unforgivable than being just a cold, calculated cash machine – instead GC only plain bad, and makes it pretty obvious that the production staff doesn’t really give a fuck about it either. Don’t ask us, we just work here.

>>61127122
As such I’m left wondering what the purpose of the show even is. It reeks of a cashing attempt, but doesn’t actually market itself much at all. Yet it’s too plain and poorly executed to be a serious attempt at creating a blockbuster (as much as such things exist in this business). Oh well, at least Shoe finally grew some fucking balls in the 14th episode. And while we’re on the subject…So in the Shoe Republik the worth of a person depends on an arbitrary genetic feature nobody can really do anything about. Awesome. How does the Scouter-mock-up even determine the “strength” of a person’s Void? As we’ve seen, Voids come in all sizes and flavors from outright combat-oriented (Inori) to utilities (Tsugumi, Hare) and defensive gadgets (Arisa). There’s no logical way to measure the value of each of these on a single numerical scale, yet this is apparently what determines your position under Shoe’s command. How godforsaken idiotic do the scenario writers expect the audience to be?

Oh, what’s that? Gai is jealous of Shu? Gosh, who could have predicted this:

“But Gai looks troubled as if it’s just the first damn episode and yet his authority — his superiority — has already been superseded by an upstart’s sudden ascendency.”

Unfortunately, it only gets worse from here. The anime goes way over the top in its portrayal of Japan’s oppression. Soldiers round up defenseless civilians in a ghetto just to shoot them at point blank range. A mother begging for mercy gets her face kicked in by a sadistic officer. Gosh, this is so reminiscent of something… something I watched a long time ago.

>>61127251
Ah yes, what a potent metaphor for the ways in which Japan has been victimized by foreign nations. In any case, Guilty Crown‘s nationalistic vibes are hardly the worst thing it has going for it. Rather, it seems like T&A are being shoved into my face at every single opportunity.What sort of person would undergo a dangerous mission in assless chaps? Inori would, that’s who! You’re not a good terrorist unless you have to get a bikini wax. Yep, that’s why bin Laden failed….Gee, anime combat sure does make a girl twitch and moan a lot these days.Thumbs up on the breast physics! The fact that she’s in a wheelchair is like a tiny, little moé surprise! Ah yes, here’s the girl in nekomimi mode. What? You’ve never seen a butt control sphere before? No worries! Her extremities will jiggle for your delight too!

It’s as if the executives furrowed their brows over Eden of the East‘s less than stellar performance and decided that they had to hit every single nerd button in Guilty Crown. Pathetic, introverted schoolboy turned uber superhero? Check. Mechas? Check. Improbable alt-universe in which Japan is enslaved by foreign forces? Check. All sorts of objectified women in skin-tight outfits? Triple checked. Worst of all, Gai seems to be this alpha male that all the girls bow down to… well, until Shu takes over anyway.

This show panders so fucking hard it's amazing.

>>61127265
“Please, Gai, if anyone is to be blamed, it’s me! You’re too perfect to do any wrong! I’m just a floppy pair of boobs who doesn’t know any better!”

“What about me, Gai? Give me approval, Gai. OH GOD GAI TELL ME I DID GOOD, GAI!”

And as if the the show wasn’t already chock full of clichés, the episode’s ending quickly reminds you that you’re watching anime. Yep, only in anime could terrorists wake up the next morning and find themselves going to high school. Wait, what’s that? We have a new transfer student?
It’s okay, Production I.G. — you guys can just admit it. Yoshino Hiroyuki isn’t a real person, is he? He’s actually a machine somewhere in your basement. It’s full of anime tropes and an algorithm to arrange said tropes into all the derivative dreck we know and love. Why, all you’d really have to do is fill in the names!

“Gentlemen! According to the machine, a (high school student) saves a (hot babe) who then gives him (generic anime shounen power). And… and she then transfers into his school…. brilliant! Get me two seasons worth of the noitaminA block!”

>>61127293
It's like the Funnybot episode of South Park.

>>61127122
>>61127160
Honestly I find it very difficult to take this reviews seriously. It feels like someone is trying very hard to find any fault with the show. I will agree that its writing isn't always the best, but there are few anime I would say have very good writing.

It just seems to me that a lot of the complaints of Guilty Crown stem from people looking at things they wouldn't look at otherwise.

As for the system for determining worth of voids. there could very well be a way its decided on, much like Gai was able to see voids. I would point out that Guilty Crown isn't totally scientific. There's some fantasy there.

>>61127272
Could you explain how?

>>61127353
>there could very well be a way its decided on, much like Gai was able to see voids.
Yeah, but the asspull-o-matic would work well if they'd at least try to bother with an explanation as GC did in season 1. Here it's just itsguiltycrowniaintgonnaexplainshit.jpg

>Could you explain how?
Look at the fucking pasta.

>>61127353

>Could you explain how?

It's in the fucking copypasta.

> It just seems to me that a lot of the complaints of Guilty Crown stem from people looking at things they wouldn't look at otherwise.

No, /a/ is just 'crazy critic' level on most things. Most here recognize 99% of this is mediocre at best. Because we have a whole week to pick apart an episode it gets picked apart (when the series in question TAKES ITSELF SERIOUSLY). This is what happens in all forms of fiction, critics all over the place who've consumed their fair share of the medium to care to this degree. In this case it's also backlash betrayal from what was 'promised' and expected of the series.

>>61127469
I agree with everything, especially
>it's also backlash betrayal from what was 'promised' and expected of the series

When you have Production I.G. promising a mature setting with a decent setting on the noitaminA block, you usually have a reason to expect something good and not generic, trope-filled shit #7648654.

Thank fuck you exist OP, I was wondering if I was the only one aswell.

People calling both this and Code Geass a trainwreck, is something I will never understand.

Guilty Crown is one of my most enjoyed shows in probably the last year.

>>61127430
>Yeah, but the asspull-o-matic would work well if they'd at least try to bother with an explanation as GC did in season 1.
What do you mean? I don't see how it is an "asspull". There was a lot of science that went in before the events of the series. There certainly might be a way, considering those people know the nature of the voids much more than us, where they come to a number on how powerful a void is.

>Look at the fucking pasta.
I read it, and it seems to be more so centered around the shows writing rather than "pandering". However I'll say that I don't really know what "pandering" means all the time when people use it.

ITT: TL;DR
Nice change of pace from the seemingly perpetual shitposting and butthurt though

>>61127528
>is something I will never understand

It's ok. Not everyone can have an IQ over 70.

>>61127583
That response was way too cliche.

>>61127556
Pandering is the act of writing in a way that caters to a certain fandom/type of watchers while willingly sacrificing something else in the process against better knowledge.

Here, Production I.G. sacrificed plot, character development and their reputation to purposely create a generic anime in the hopes of cashing in on casualfags and pseudo-deep "otakus" despite claiming to do the opposite.

>>61127640
I know, but it's just as the pasta states
>Long story short, Guilty Crown assumes that you, the viewer, are a complete moron.

>>61127469
>It's in the fucking copypasta.
Where?

>No, /a/ is just 'crazy critic' level on most things.
I disagree. I'll point out Madoka Magicka as an example which is very popular. People usually don't complain about it being "derivative" or anything else even though it was clearly inspired by quite a bit of shows. I think what happens here is more so people are critical about things that get established early on that they should be critical about. So people saw early on that Guilty Crown was being called a "code geass clone", and from then on they looked very hard to find anything that could be construed as "derivative" or copying something else. So someone like me who tries to be a little more critical, doesn't really understand it because it's not really anymore derivative than anime tends to be in general.

I mean I can understand that everyone may not like it, but I just wish people would think a little more about what they say. That's why I made this thread to try and get some discussion on about this "cliche" business so that people can think a little more critically about it.

>In this case it's also backlash betrayal from what was 'promised' and expected of the series.
Personally I've been satisfied with what its brought.

>>61127649
This show has more plot than the majority of shows in the last 6 months. There are so many questions left unanswered due to a good plot.

The character development could be better.

The execution is great, the reactions/sounds/music (or lack of) in the scene where Hare dies for example, and Shu struggled to even scream out in pain, that was great voice acting.

Mixed with an Amazing OST and good animation.

I want to ask, what anime do Guilty Crown haters like?

>>61127695
>inspired
INSPIRED. That's the line between Guilty Shit and other shows. It isn't inspired by; it merely plagiarises.

>>61127293

bleach

>>61127741

More plot, does not excuse the execution of said plot and elements. Visuals are great and as is the audio, I'd expect nothing less of IG. But anime and fiction for me is not just pretty images and good audio, there is more to it than that.

>>61127796
What don't you like about the plot, though?

Is it just the execution of it you do not fancy? Or is it the plot itself?

>>61127673
Most viewers are morons though. They don't even get shit that is plain as day. All the dumb ass questions this week about things that were pretty clear in the show prove it.

>>61127521
I don't see how they lied about its setting or the "maturity" of it. I don't remember them saying it would be terribly "mature" though.

And I'm still having a hard time seeing why its generic. I think its good and you may not, but I don't see how someone could say its generic. It's not as if they aired, say, a harem anime set in a contemporary Japanese setting.

>>61127649
I'm not seeing how they sacrificed the plot and reputation. Could you be more specific on how they did that and why its generic? Could you name anime like it?

>>61127695

I think what you are missing is that people ARE critical about it and have gone beyond what you expected and outlined. The reason for the hate is this critical outlook that started very early and yes it did start as a promise to be similar to CG. You can draw similarities to many things, but many feel the execution of GC is fucking horrid.

>>61127741
Akagi (I know the plot isn't that great either, but at least it has suspense), Michiko To Hatchin, Monster, Legend of the Galactic Heroes, Eve No Jikan, House of the Five Leafs, Moyashimon, jin-Roh.

And
>many questions left unanswered due to a good plot.
can quickly turn into
>many questions left unanswered due to shit writing that never explains stuff.
Just wait til the anime is finished. I guarantee they'll leave a lot of plot holes and asspulls unexplained.

>>61127741
>Plot
There isn't one
There is no plot
There's a premise that we are supposed to accept based on faith but there has been hide nor hair of a plot in 15 episodes.
And you are either the most naive man on the planet or the most forgiving person on /a/ to believe any of the dozens of threads its introduced but not gone down are going to be resolved in any satisfactory function by the end of the show.

>>61127827

Both, the execution is very slow in events and twists you pick up on and the plot is in shambles at times. Many issues would be fixed and accelerated if they would just fucking talk (as usual), Shu being the indecisive retard he is cannot connect the dots on how to progress the story, he is the centre of the storm and should fucking know it now that 'he remembers'.

>>61127577

Yeah, it's better this way. The usual trolls who can't form arguments won't be joining the thread. It sure is refreshing to see a GC thread without one liner generic troll posts being responded by many.

>>61127851
Because we had a "Japan in the future is occupied/in danger and only [Highschool Boy X] can save it with his [mysterious power Y]" setting IN NEARLY EVERY FUCKING SEASON FOR THE PAST FEW YEARS.


>>61127741
>many questions left unanswered
>good plot

What? Are you retarded? That is the exact opposite of a good plot. A good plot would present a story without loose ends that could cheapen its narrative.

>>61127865
So would you say Code Geass has a plot because Lelouch said he would destroy Britannia?

And I assume you say Guilty Crown has no plot because Shu hasn't really said anything except for this episode where he admits he will become 'king'.

That aside - I still haven't found a compelling reason why this show is hated so much.

>>61127849

This. I fucking hate those frodo-tier questions.

>>61127951
The show is still airing, it has every chance to explain backstory, shu showing 'xxxx' on the power level reader - you can't expect it all to be thrown at you, which is what a BAD show would do. Walking you through with no cliffhangers, or speculation.

>>61127966
>implying CG's plot wasn't shit

We've gone over this several thousand times for the past few years. And no, I'm not even watching this current season's trash.

>>61127528
It's nice to know that I'm not alone. I haven't been on /a/ a lot lately though, so I didn't know how much people have pointed out what I'm saying.

>>61127796
Could you point out why you consider them bad?

>>61127860
What I'm saying here is that people are being more critical about it than they usually are about anime. So I'm saying they're being overcritical, mainly because the complaints I see about GC could be applied to many shows, even very popular ones. It just seems that people are using it as a punching bag, and as a result it gets a lot of unfair criticism.

I would be fine if people just complain about its execution. I mean that's just their opinion if they don't like though I'd ask for them to at least to explain why. My problem is really just centered around not understanding the talk of "cliche" and "generic" which in my view is unfair to series.

>>61127966

Geass drops the fucking ball on it's magic aspect, Charles crazy shit and glosses over the Knights and final fights in the later episodes, conquering the world is included in that, it should have been a 3 season series. The plot really boils down to destroying Brittannia and not much else because so much shit is just abandoned.

>>61127865
I'm really not understanding what you mean by "plot"

>>61127849
This. Enter a random anime forum/board outside of /a/ (or just stay in one of the shittier threads here). 95% of humanity is borderline retarded and our planet is better off without us.

>>61128001
Just like they brilliantly explained and resolved Gai's backstory, Mana, every Undertaker plan ever and nearly every other important plot point in this series?

Yeah, optimism can only go that far...

>>61128049
OF COURSE it's a punching bag. A punching bag for every shitty anime series that claims to have a decent/mature/serious anime plot in the last few years.

We bash it for what it stands: For crappy, style-over-substance anime that is dominating the industry today.

>>61127966
Let's break the show down, then.

On one level you have the stolen ideas (they are stolen because GC does nothing with them aside from padding itself out).

Then you have the stupid plot elements (evident from first episode: stupid soldiers, bullet hits the fucking vial). Asspulls of the highest order everywhere. Gai shows him fucking face to the world. He also discharges his gun at Shu, but no one hears, apparently. The students see Shu and Ayase flying around but don't give a shit.The fuck.

As a sci-fi it fails utterly. It asks no questions, offers no discussion, only pumps the cocks of chuuni-byo patients.

It's also lame as fuck. Point in case: Shu and Ayase fucking pose after they wreck those intruders.

>>61128049
Do you know why they're overcritical?
Because the show demanded that we take it seriously, and we being the viewers decided to give it the benefit of a doubt, and it showed up to dinner with a bag from McDonald's and mullet.

The directors, animators, and other such people involved in the fucking show were touting their creation as if it were the next coming of Jesus H. Christ himself, with such off the wall claims as "The next GiTS" and "Thrilling suspenseful intrigue" as if just having advanced prosthesis and a plot tree written by a drunk fa/tg/uy somehow makes it thrilling.

You wanna talk big, deliver, or keep your mouth fucking shut.

>>61127741
>This show has more plot than the majority of shows in the last 6 months

And this is the exact problem what I have with this series. If THIS is the best Japan can currently offer in the anime industry, then it's fucking pathetic.

>>61128162
I never took it seriously and didn't give a shit what the creators said about it. Guess that's why I'm not butthurt about it now.

I wonder if some pure shitty shit shit of a shit like moretsu pirates or random brainfuckin' Aquarion evol or idunnowtfisthat rinne lagrange are getting as much hate as GC?

I really don't know. I rarely come to /a/

those shows really have NOTHING original or even decent... they're just not worth watching

so... the fact that GC gets so much attention and debate means that it's actually something that deserves the attention and that's a good thing

>>61128001

Undertakers back stories and motivations should have already happened. Motivations of the big chaos loving bad should have been revealed etc. Things like beach episode + convenient 5 minutes for development are not needed, 'festival' etc heaps of shit that's not needed. The set up was more logical before the series aired, it's gone beyond the hyper stupid SoL episodes Geass had, both are trying to hide identities but ones an idiot who would do better 'disappearing' than staying at school.

>>61128190
I like how you're implying I'm butthurt.
I'm not, but I'm not going to miss a chance to fling shit at shit that deserves it.

>>61128190
Yes.

But it also means that you've long abandoned your standards.

>>61127966
A plot needs more than just a sequence of events. The main problem with the entire show is that Shoe has had no motiviation for any of his actions up until this point. Everything that Shoe has done up until they get walled is is basically because Inori is cute. One of the most hillarious moments in the show is Shoe trying to justify risking his schoolmates lives to save Gai because it shows how little motivation there is for what he does. And the viewers are expected to take this seriously?

I think the stand out moment of comedic genius in this show was when the scouter was introduced. They had a set up where we could finally see something interesting, people trying to justify their worth in this new environment based on the capabilities of their voids, and instead it all gets swept away because power levels and rankings. It's amazingly stupid writing at it's utter finest.

tl;dr: Does Shoe have a reason for what he does? No. There is your lack of plot.

>>61128192
>I rarely come to /a/
Good. Go away, you fucking plebeian. Also, lrn2period.

>>61128209
You sound kind of upset is all

Whoa
People watch guilty clown for its substance?
I thought they watched it because it was best comedy 2011/12?

>>61128213
I did that long before deciding to enjoy Guilty Crown for what it is. Most anime is complete shit.

>>61128249
If only, anon.

>>61128249
I watch it for Daryl.

>>61128130
I'm not understanding why. Could you give more examples of these types of series? I don't see how it is style-over-substance could you elaborate on that? I mean clearly there is a plot here and its a coming of age story. What is the problem here?

The issue I have with your point here is that even if you do think its bad, it is being criticized for things that don't necessarily make sense and other series usually aren't criticized for. Do you think that's fair?

>>61128192
>Mouretsu Pirates
I like the discussions on information warfare as it reminds me of Rogue Trader. And frankly, I never expected "pew-pew lazor batlles!!111" like some idiots did.
>Rinne No Lagrange
a large part of all mecha anime is fucking stupid. But we have a female lead that doesn't suck, for once.

Also, both shows didn't claim to be the next GitS.

>>61128282
Fucking hell. It's like you're ignoring every argument in this thread that you can't sidestep.

>>61128282
But they aren't citiziced for it on /a/. We point out nearly every mistake in every current airing anime, regardless of taste - because we have the time and the no-life to do so.

But the discrepance between the claims of the creators and the result was rarely so different as it is with GC.

>>61128162
I'm not sure I remember them saying "being the next GitS". I do remember the director saying he wanted the series to be his personal GitS, or something of that nature, or that the setting and technology was inspired by it. I don't remember any claims though that it would necessarily be as good as GitS.

I have found the story very thrilling.

Even if you don't think its delivered in a way that you'd have hoped, do you think its fair to criticize it in a way it doesn't deserve?

>>61128258
Then it's ok, I respect your opinion. But don't be butthurt about it when people who still have standards actually do complain.

People with standards aren't watching anything this season.

>>61128346
>criticize it in a way it doesn't deserve?
Would you shut up with that? Refute the actual fucking arguments. If you think show x isn't getting enough hate then do the bashing yourself.
Perhaps everyone else is just not as perceptive as you.

>>61128346
Of course I think its fair. See my last comment. Don't talk big unless you can fucking deliver, don't go around making statements you can't backup. That's not just an anime lesson, that's a fucking life lesson - people will always shit a thousand orders of magnitude harder on the guy who talks a big game and fucks up than they will on the guy who keeps his mouth shut and fucks up in the same way. You shouldn't expect anything less from your fellow humans.

>>61128192

Pirates is weak, but a nice break from usual anime sci-fi, feels close to Starship Operators, it's far from a perfect hard sci-fi, if you'd seen some threads you'd have noticed. Evol...well it's probably going to be as fucking stupid as first season (to be expected from this kind of super robot series) and lagrange for me personally is weak as it feels like a 'mecha base sport', the first 4 episodes didn't feel like a serious sci-fi with invasion themes at all, I was hoping it would be a kind of Uuchu no Stelliva 'season 2', doesn't seem that way.

>>61128392
Sup Gorespammer.

>>61128418
You're a moron.

>>61128221
I'm going to have to disagree here. From the start of the series we see that Shu wants to become a stronger person. That was his initial motivation--he wasn't happy with himself. Then he wanted to become more like Gai and did want to be helpful. I wouldn't say that Inori was the only motivation here and I wouldn't say its right to negate the existence of a plot because you don't like its plot or characters.

I'm having trouble understanding what you mean by in the second paragraph though.

>>61126049
>>61126109
I enjoyed the hell out of Sacred Fantasy EIGHT too. Sure, it was probably the most cliche ridden, easy mode writing I've ever seen, but it delivered pretty well everywhere else.

>>61128464

Shu doesn't DO anything to become like Gai or a stronger person. He is lead by the nose throughout all of that, next to nothing is his own decision or reasoning.

>>61128320
>>61128282

This is getting close to porky's circular logic that never begins to understand what people are saying, just reiterates the same thing it said over and over.

Why do people find Gair "cool"? He is a total prick, has a blatant disregard for most of his followers, is jealous as fuck, makes plans that rely on luck and is in general just a big douchebag.

I mean, RURUSHU was a douche too. But at least did try to be nice and cared about some things in his life. Gai is just...idiotic.

>>61128598
He's a Gary Stu.

>>61128402
But I've pointed out here that the directors didn't say the things you said.

However I would still say it is a fallacy to criticize something undeservedly because you have a problem with the staff. It's like people who troll an anime because they don't like the fanbase.

>>61128401
The thing is I'm not the type to troll so I'm not going to bash an anime because I dislike it. I'm usually more preoccupied with shows I do enjoy (such as Guilty Crown) to even have the time to do something like that.

I'm just trying to open people's eyes so people can think a little more critically about what they say. It's probably not going to change a lot, especially not this far into it the series where many people have already decided what they think and aren't willing to change, but it makes me feel a little better to talk about it and know that some people might think a little more.

>>61128598
People like Gai?
Who?
/a/ only likes Daryl, Segai, and Dan (bless his soul)

>>61128392

I'm watching 17 series currently (5 from last season). I think my standards have finally begun to drop after all these years.

>>61128598
>I mean, RURUSHU was a douche too. But at least did try to be nice and cared about some things in his life
Nope.
You're right about gai.

>>61128282
>STOP HAVING OTHER OPINIONS!!!!!!1111 Q.Q

God, you are a retard. You probably like Kaiba because it's edgy, cool and different, right?
Fucking hipster.

there's lots of other show this season that isn't SHIT. gc is babbys first gridmark anime including the beta mc turned Darkness. people who say they like it are trolls

>>61128673
Irrefutable truth

>>61128618
Look at a place to discuss anime that isn't /a/. I just took a look at MAL...horrifying.

>>61128633
>>61128608
That makes me feel a bit more comfortable. Anyway, bitches probably dick him, because alpha assholes are the way to go....

>>61128673
gc is grimdark?

This show is kind of like /a/'s Naruto

>>61128706
Suffering porn everywhere
People being slaughtered
Forced dystopia
pretty high on the grimderp scale, all we need now is a good dismemberment and we'll be at 1.5 Elfen Lied's

>>61128598
Gai is shit. The show got better the minute he died.

>>61128673
This.
>>61128706
For shitty & underage casualfags

>>61128725
I wouldn't call GC's world a dystopia.

>>61128706
That or it fancies itself as some sort of though-provoking political drama. Shit either way.

>>61128142
Really? This is what makes people drop a show?

These are all cliche to anime as a form of entertainment.

Do not expect realism.

>>61128673
>there's lots of other shows this season that aren't shit
hahahaha oh wow.

>>61128723
Pretty much. All the 'real' fans spout shit like "fun things are fun fuck you go watch your mature anime for mature people, faggot" like giant babies who have no legitimate arguments.

>>61128673
Jokes on you, I have seen hundreds of anime, and I thoroughly enjoy this.

>>61128765
Chihayafuru, Nisemonogatari is you like Nisio

uilty Crown is one of the last I'd look at and think "cliche


HHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHA
HAHHAHAHAHHHAHA


HHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHA
HAHHAHAHAHHHAHA


HHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHA
HAHHAHAHAHHHAHA

>>61128546
Well this is inaccurate. On multiple occasions we see Shu thinking about "what would gai do in this situation", such as when he called his classmates and they wanted to know about his voids. The thing about it is he does want to become more like Gai, but his personality flaws prevent it.

>>61128574
I'm not trying to disregard anyone's arguments. I'm trying to understand them and hopefully have people think about what I have to say to it.

>>61128640
I'm not trying to tell people they can't have other opinions, I just want them to think about those opinions because I don't agree with them and find them flawed in some ways.

While this isn't related, I thought Kaiba had fantastic art direction, music, mixed together with a story that pulled at my heart. With that said, I didn't enjoy the second part of the series as much as the first.

>>61128464
We don't see Shoe whining about wanting to be a better person until after he joins the terrorists. And even then it has no grounding in his character. Shoe is a normal high school protagonist. He has no motivation to become anything. And 'because I'm useful' is not a particularly compelling reason. I'm sure terrorist groups around the world would find any number of us 'useful' but I don't see /a/ going to sign up. The PLOT so far of GC has been: Shoe finds magical girlfriend; Shoe trips over and gets magical powers; Shoe joins the terrorist group against the evil government because he now has magic powers; the government is evil because we said so; Shoe rescues people because the cute girl asks him to; Shoe wants to be more like Gai because the cute girl likes Gai; Shoe saves Gai because he's Shoe's friend now; LOL AMNESIA; now you're all fighting for survival.

And that is what my second paragraph was about. For the first time in the show, people have a clear and decent motivation for what they are doing, SURVIVAL. One of the more interesting, albeit common, aspects of survival drama is the new group dynamics and power structures. This is generally determined by ones worth to the group. The Voids provide an excellent grounding for this sort of drama, because it gives everyone some kind of worth. In traditional survival drama that something would have been a particular skill set or something. However, rather than have this play out, with people attempting to justify their worth by demonstrating the usefulness of their void, they decided to reduce it all to power levels. Power levels, the most basic and lazy plot device in the world. It's so bad is comical.

>>61128800
Chihayafuru is from fall.
Nise is shit.

>>61128800
>Nisemonogatari
It gets as much hate as Guilty Crown

>OP's face

>>61128759
It's a dystopia. It's just that it's done shittily. Foreigners take over Japan; they have the power to kill whomever they want to. Higher-ups have agendas that involve sacrificing the many. The only thing holding it back is how the world only sucks when the writers remember to make it so, because their show is edgy.

Here comes the Hurrizon fanboys.

It really is sad when no one talks about your shit show

>>61128853
If horizon fags complain about guilty crown being shit they are hypocrites.

>>61128853
Everyone knows Horizon is shit.

>>61128775
I don't spout that shit, and I enjoy Guilty Crown.

And since you would be on the offensive, expressing your view that GC is bad, then you would have to offer me a compelling argument to why it is.

p.s to everyone I still haven't seen a reason in this thread as to why GC is shit. All i've seen is that it's 'cliche' and has no plot. That's pretty cute.

>>61128881
>>61128889
Don't get them started

>>61128832
It's divisive as fuck. I swear nobody has a middle ground on Nise

>>61128890
So story isn't important to you? Congrats on having low standards.

>>61128853
It's shit. Like mostly everything that comes out these days.

>>61128890
>All i've seen is that it's 'cliche' and has no plot.
Is there even a condition for this? Selective seeing...? Medfags, help me out here.

>>61128928
It's lupus.

>>61128928
Lupus

>>61128890
>Give reasons
>LOL THOSE AREN'T REASONS
ポーク・ライングラーかえってぞ

>>61128928
It's got to be Lupus.

>>61128973
see >>61128761

>>61125462
>Even looking at a very popular series here such as Madoka Magicka, it was very derivative but it doesn't seem to be a constant complain about it.

i've been wondering why anybody hadn't pointed this out yet:
OP, Madoka gained acceptance in /a/ after it aired (considering that you do not call yourself new, you must have been aware of the rage in madoka threads... especially during the 6 week wait for the last episodes)

GC may as well become like this: hated on /a/ but will generally generate acceptance a few months after it ends

>>61128853
its best if we leave it at that. no one talks about it because there's nothing to talk about (at least not yet)

>>61128890
>the arguments you have are no arguments
>convince me

Sure. When you learn to think that is.

>>61128918

Everything gets trolled. As long as there are tons of people watching the show, it will get trolled.

I think Idolmasterfags are the only fanbase that doesn't get trolled that much. They're too autistic playing their games. I'm really sure those fags are from /jp/

>>61128993
That anon, or you if it is you, is just plain retarded.

>Do not expect realism.
More like
>It's entertainment. Stop thinking about it!

>>61128816
>We don't see Shoe whining about wanting to be a better person until after he joins the terrorists.
This is inaccurate. He actually does it in the first episode after he lets Inori get away.

As for your description of the plot, I'm still not understanding how what you said is equivalent to a "lack of plot". I mean I'm not really talking about the quality of the plot here which I do think is for the most part good, but only that you said that it doesn't have a plot.

I wouldn't say this was the first time people had clear and decent motivations. Gai's motivations in particular were not clear, but on the surface the goal of the undertakers was to free Japan from foreign control.

I'm not understanding the second part again because I don't see how the number associated with the void power is at odds with what you'd like to see the series be, since the very theme here still is how the group will be affected by being ranked, and how Shu up top with his generals will deal with that.

I'm not sure what you mean by it being "lazy" how they're going about it. I'm pretty sure "power levels" usually do not play out this way.

With that said, do you think it's fair to criticize the series for not doing exactly what you wanted?

>>61129007
Madoka was loved by /a/, trolls started to really roll during the wait because of the "poplar=bad" attitude some have. And it isn't as unique as most people claim it to be (Utakata, etc.), /a/ knows that.

However, unlike GC the execution is top notch.

>>61129015
I don't tell everyone this is the most amazing anime ever, and so:

And since you would be on the offensive, expressing your view that GC is bad, then you would have to offer me a compelling argument to why it is.


And since you would be on the offensive, expressing your view that GC is bad, then you would have to offer me a compelling argument to why it is.


And since you would be on the offensive, expressing your view that GC is bad, then you would have to offer me a compelling argument to why it is.


And since you would be on the offensive, expressing your view that GC is bad, then you would have to offer me a compelling argument to why it is.

>>61129101
>sage & spamming.

Yeah, no. Come back when you're 18+, this is a board for mature people.

>>61129043

I'm sick of their general. Yes, most would be from /jp/ since there would be very few able to read nip in those threads. Buyfag general needs to go as well, /jp/ is starting to move back in, soon we will have 'idol news and stalking' back in full swing and not soon after that 99% of threads will derail with classic hijacks.

l've just found it too boring, it has no innovation or hook to keep me interested, l might marathon it after air but no way l'll bother downloading it week to week. lts a shame that there isn't a single good battle anime this season, Rinne is retarded as fuck as well as Moretsu, hopefully Medaka, Zetman and F/Z 2 will be good next season.

>>61128928
It's called selective exposure.

>>61129056
No, it's more like
>It's anime. Stop thinking about it!

People honestly believe that anime can have a complex and deep story line in this day and age? Not in years. The industry is changing, and it seems nobody here can adjust.

>>61125229
bang

>>61129077
It's because you actually don't understand what a plot is.
You think all the things he's listed count as a plot, when in fact they are the premise. You see a plot would be those things and an interesting complication.
There have been no interesting complications because Shu has no character to speak of. Oh, there have been things happening to people who aren't Shu that are resolved in the same episode that they're brought up, but there has yet to be an actual plot involving Shu. He's just sort of there, along for the ride, being told what to do. Now, this may change in the upcoming episodes because finally an interesting complication has been introduced, but they've been incredibly slow to even remotely utilize it. It's quite pathetic that the basic tenets of writing seem to be lost on GC's writing staff - though not an uncommon problem with most Japanese media in the first place. They do so love their asymmetrical tales.

In any case, we'll see if the plot actually begins in 16 or if it will be back to circling around banal fripperies like the show has been.

>>61129139
>idol news and stalking
I wouldn't mind that.

>>61129043
>too atutstic by enjoying things
By that logic fanbase that getting trolled all day every day is the most succesful fanbase.

>>61129132
It was obvious you didn't read the post, so I was only helping your ignorance.

I saged for good reason, that is because I was reposting.

Might I ask you favourite anime?

>>61129153
I don't ask for every show to have the impact of fucking Evangelion. I simply reserve the right to criticise flawed shows without having those criticisms bounced back to me with a half-assed "It's anime, deal it it."

>>61129007
I was here, and having been here I didn't see complaints about Madoka ever been centered around "cliche". From the start really it became a meme to call Guilty Crown a bad "trainwreck" and "cliche".

>>61129094
>Madoka was loved by /a/
I would not say that. Madoka had a clear following but seemed to be mostly ignored by most until later on into its run.

>However, unlike GC the execution is top notch.
I would disagree. I enjoyed Madoka quite a bit but it was very flawed too.

The reason I pointed out as an example though was because it was clearly derivative, but this isn't something that it was always criticized for in the way Guilty Crown is. This is something I notice even looking at other forums.

>>61129077

His whining never changes himself, he may make some noise but does nothing to change anything, as said before he is their bitch doing as told.

There is not a lack of plot, it's a lack of cohesion and execution.

Undertakers are a rag tag group of teens. Liberating the small effected area is great and all, but your resistance is futile and weak. I still can't comprehend how these 15 year olds got trained 'to be better than 20+ year old military servicemen', when their supplies should be limited and when they appeared to be mostly located in the ghetto. Gai is just using them without unleashing the truth, I think spilling the beans would draw more people to your cause not make them leave.

>>61129211
LoGH.

>>61129252
This doesn't work for GC because it was hated on from the beginning and this chart is bullshit anyway.

>>61129170

Some parts of /jp/ is fine, just that it is one step up from /a/ creepiness and begins to approach true obsessive otaku levels, it's not as if they were never here, just don't flood the board with it (I just fucking hate generals).

>>61129252
But Guilty Crown was shit to begin with. Where do you think the whole "dropping it every week" gig came from?

>>61129252
I like how PSG is thrown in there, Gainax fag much?

>>61129252
It should be reverse.
After SHURER it becomes more succesful then before.

>>61129235
>I would not say that. Madoka had a clear following but seemed to be mostly ignored by most until later on into its run.
Madoka reinvented Thursdays on /a/ from its premiere. You're either new or were away from the board at the time.

>>61129306
This

>>61129252
It's gotten more liked as it went on though

>>61129153

All mediums can deliver a complex and deep story, the sales for them are generally low, anime is in most cases just a 6-12 hour advertisement for further merchandise. I would assume not many are like me and care for the story only and not the extra products produced.

>>61129235
>I would not say that.
So, how do you like /a/? After all, it's your first week here.

>>61129309
I ignored it and i was here during the time it aired.
Just throwing that out there.

>>61129314
It is in reverse, see how the other line is popular but then turns shit, but GC is shit then turns good?

>>61129349
I see it now

>>61129321
You'll notice that the less serious Guilty Crown takes itself, the more people like it.

>>61129162
Here's "plot" as defined by wikipedia.

>Plot is a literary term defined as the events that make up a story, particularly as they relate to one another in a pattern, in a sequence, through cause and effect, or by coincidence

I'm having a hard time understanding what your particular definition is. "Interesting" is very subjective, and I've never heard of a plot needing to be complex.

However for what you have to say about Shu i heavily disagree because Guilty Crown has very much been a coming of age story and we are constantly seeing how events affect Shu through his actions and introspection. Hare dying was just one one of many complications that have happened to him over the course of the series, and is the one that tips him over the edge.

>>61129235
>I would not say that. Madoka had a clear following but seemed to be mostly ignored by most until later on into its run.

You mean, ignored by yourself?
The speculah, the hype threads before episode 1, the SPECULAH and threads after episode 1...hell, that was awesome.

>>61129295

Isn't that just /a/ being tsundere for the anime? I'm pretty sure everyone who kept dropping it was still watching the thing. I mean, the anime is far from perfect, but I think people are way too hung up on being embarrassed to watch certain things because they aren't cool in /a/'s eyes. To be honest, while I didn't like it much to begin with, I'm actually enjoying GC now despite its flaws.

>>61129369
That's fine because you're clearly an idiot.

>>61129390
>tsundere

>>61129390
They are still watching. And most people bitching here will watch it when it airs later today.

>>61129369
You are a fucking idiot.
>>61129391
Do you think he has brain damage?

>>61129349
About CG is pretty much yes, about other not really, some of them at least.

I do like Guilty Crown, but I can't deny it's riddled with cliché and is a rather badly written story to be honest, but it's rather fun and when shit is going down the animation and the fight sequences looks awesome really - that's the only reason I watch it. The characters are shit, especially Shoe and Inori

Too much NTRshit innuendo for me.
Dropped after some episodes.

>>61129449
He's either got some sort of developmental disorder or he's a master troll. I can't believe I responded seriously.

>>61129077
>This is inaccurate. He actually does it in the first episode after he lets Inori get away.
Just because someone spends 5 seconds in a show whining about something, that doesn't constitute clear and compelling motivation. We never see any effects of Shoe's apprent weakness, nor what he hopes to change by becoming 'strong'. Except of course for the immediate motivation in that scene, where if he were stronger, the cute girl wouldn't have been taken away.

>I'm still not understanding how what you said is equivalent to a "lack of plot"
Decent plot is not just about making things happen. It's also about the reasons why those things are happening, it also helps of those are beleivable reasons in context. GC has none of these. Which becomes particularly clear with:
>the goal of the undertakers was to free Japan from foreign control
Until we see Daryl shoot some poor innocent people in the head in another piece of bad story telling, we see no ill-effects or reasons as to why the government is bad. None. They are overthrowing the government and foreign occupation, just because.

continued in part 2:

>>61129246
His whining is changing him on the inside. We are seeing him struggle with who he is and who he wants to be. I would not say character development is about a character going through a drastic change after every single thing that happens to him. We actually see later that Shu does try to become a little more assertive. It's not until Hare dies is that he tips over the edge, but this is just on top of everything that's been built up from the start.

>>61129486
Part 2:
>I'm pretty sure "power levels" usually do not play out this way.
But this is exactly how power levels usually play out. The people with the higher power levels are stronger because they have higher power levels. And then in a few weeks time we're going to see the rather obvious twist of the weak power levels overthrowing the stronger ones because of heart/friendship/whatever, just like it has in every powerlevel series from bleach to naruto to dragonball. For this to play out abnormally, we would have had situations like the fridge void guy trying to prove that his void is more useful than someone elses. Hence giving him a better position in the group.

>With that said, do you think it's fair to criticize the series for not doing exactly what you wanted?
I'm not critizing the series for not being what I wanted. In fact it's providing exactly what I wanted from the series: comedy. I'm simply pointing out that the writing, plot and character development are all laughably bad (again, exactly what I was hoping for from this show). And I doubt the next episode will disappoint.

>>61129473
The NTR is mostly fake

>>61129309
This is very untrue. Madoka threads were usually maintained in generals, until the last day it aired.

>>61129449
>>61129391
What did I say wrong? I've not attacked anyone here at all. I don't see why you're saying that to me.

>>61129505
The innuendo alone is bullshit enough.

I like how OP's replies are mostly him saying he doesn't understand what we're talking about and then asking more questions.... He's like a child and I find it adorable....

The reason it's Generic and Cliché is because of both what clichés it uses and how it uses them.... See clichés are overused plot devices.... They've been around for long than you think and they've been in more media that I can be bothered to count.... Less overused clichés are sometimes know as tropes....

Now you can't build a story without these tropes but you can combine them to make different stories.... You can also play with them and use them in different ways.... This is how you make stories....

GC takes the most overused tropes (or clichés) and uses them in a standard (or Generic) way where it's the trope at it's most basic form.... This leads to predicable plot elements and boring story.... It has diferences to other works so there's no way anybody could list anime with the exact same story.... But they could list the tropes from them....

GC gets hate because it's supposed to be more that this and it takes itself seriously.... And because it's kinda fun to hate it....

I don't care if you like it but please don't ask so many stupid questions.... If you fail to understand what I've said you should Google the term or visit TVTropes to find out rather than ask here....

And remember the words in my image here....

>>61129369
I am on the exact same boat as you.

These guy's are just pure trolling you, though.

>>61129391
>>61129449

>>61129595
You don't understand.

A cliche does not make something bad. If this were true, 95% of todays anime would be fucking despised by /a/.