That picture is hideous, just to tell you.

>Also, Rule 63 Fate thread, I guess.

BEHOLD THE GLORY OF SISKANDER!

Cancelled MMO would disagree, which can be regarded as canonical as far as heroes go. Despite older (more recognisable) heroes being present in the adaptions we have seen, more modern ones are possible. Shakespeare, for one (oh god why).

>>58967569
>Diarmuid - 280 AD
>Arthur (Arturia) - 520 AD

Diarmuid's legend is older than Saber's? I wouldn't have thought that.

>>58967638
>That yuri between her and female Waver

Jack the Ripper and Shakespeare beg to differ.

>>58967638
Complimentary Waver-chan.

>>58967665
My knowledge of Shakespeare is shaming, really too close to Kojiro (I had assumed 1700's).
Jack the Ripper, then.

Relevant (and needs to be updated)

>>58967808
Who is the 1900 guy?

No OP, it's just Nasu being a faggot about the term hero because he needs DBZ battles instead of tacticool war simulations.

>>58967833
The Fate/Extra Assassin.
I forget his name.

>>58967743
Fuck yes!
>>58967770
>implying that's not just male Waver in a skirt
>implying I still wouldn't PUT IT IN

>>58967808
Who is that between female assassin and Tamano?

>>58967743
Where the hell is shota rin?

>>58967569
>Arthur 520AD
>>58967808
>Arthur 400AD

Whichever is accurate, there's no excuse for her goddamn plate-armor. Gil has his magic treasure trove, but what's Saber's excuse?

Nasu uses the moniker hero as loosely as possible. Even the qualifications for a hero means relatively little seeing as part of it requires the hero to be remembered and worshiped like a god. Half of the people involved in the franchise are barely remembered. Outside of the middle east only the craziest of history buffs knew what the Ḥashshāshīns were. If you were to ask someone about the most famous assassin you would probably get a lot of people that mention people from the last 60 years. Most of the first world probably knows the Ḥashshāshīn from Assassin's Creed series for fuck sake.

Even Gilgamesh took an incredibly long time to come into the public eye and more people probably know his Nasuverse version or Final Fantasy version than his mythological version.

>>58968039
Because Arthur is the prototypical knight, and knights have plate armor.

Don't argue with this logic, because you will never win.

>>58967743
>goth-loli Diarmuid-chan

I think it's just as long as the person doesn't wield firearms, they are qualified for hero status even if they were born in the age of firearms(as evident by Kojiro).

There was a news story of a guy killing a burglar with a harpoon. He could be a Heroic Spirit if enough people knew of him.

Santa Claus could be a Heroic Spirit because he isn't known for using guns and there are more children that believe Santa is real than there are living Greek Pagans.

>>58968078
Yet somehow a comedy troupe in the 70s could adapt Arthur in a more historically accurate manner, and they had him riding an imaginary horse while his squire clacked coconuts.

>>58967741
Not canon.

>>58967569
Somehow Nasu said something like modern soldiers just have exceptional weapons and no skill so they don't qualify.
Nasu obviously never looked at his servants except for maybe Kojiro, Heracles and some other of the greek ones.

>>58968137
Doesn't matter. Arthur is a knight. Knights have armor. Is this too complicated to understand?

Emiya doesn't count, he didn't become a Hero by his own actions, but by contract with the Sekai to become a Counter Guardian.

That swedish or dutch sniper guy from WW2 would make a good assassin.

>>58968137
The point isn't historical accuracy. The Heroic Spirit that is summoned is a materialization of the collective unconscious imaginary of Arthur, merged with his real appearance.

>>58968238
What about that guy who sniped like 70 ruskies by camping in the snow for years?

>>58968208
That isn't hard to understand. What is hard to understand is why armor that wouldn't exist for some time suddenly existed for Arthur. Even Disney didn't go that retarded and they're the people that forgot the civil rights movement happened in the 1960s when making a movie about a black girl in the 1920s.

>>58968238
I'd rather Lyudmila Pavlichenko or the Red Baron.

>>58968279
That was who I was referring to. I'm American, I can't into geography.

>>58967808
>>58967569
What about Siegurd.

Humans are less magical now, and less and less prone to exalt a warrior to legendary status. So there are less heroes.

>>58968298
ARTHUR IS A KNIGHT. KNIGHTS HAVE ARMOR. HISTORICAL ACCURACY IS IRRELEVANT. KNIGHTS HAVE ARMOR.

It's not that fucking complicated.

>>58968238
Eric Hartmann as Rider!

>>58968298
It's magic.

>>58968198
I believe his logic was anyone can do something now because guns make it too easy.

Of course he's Japanese so he's probably never fired a gun and realize how difficult using one actually is and believes FPS games to be an accurate representation of real fire arms.

>>58968078
Copy from Siegurd.

>>58968313
Throw Arc in there too.

>>58968298
What is hard to understand about Arthur being a little girl and Nasu completely ignoring historical accuracy anyway?

>>58968134
Holy shit I want to see a Santa Servant

>>58968054
>Half of the people involved in the franchise are barely remembered.

Not every legendary or mythic figure is going to achieve the same status as Heracles/Hercules or King Arthur. But I can say with complete honesty that you won't find a native Irish person that can't tell you how and why Cúchulainn got his name, or that doesn't know of Fionn MacCumhaill (the lord Diarmuid "betrayed").

They're still legendary figures in Ireland, even though only mythology buffs would know of them outside of it.

My problem is when we start getting "heroes" like Bluebeard and Medea, but lol Angry Manjew.

>>58968334
....no one is saying that Arthur didn't have armor. The problem is that his time period would have worn armor that Roman military did.

Technically the design of Excalibur is completely wrong as well.

Rider(extra) uses guns and she is considered a heroic spirit. Really, its probably just Nasu and all his fan fiction writing fans being incapable of coming up with stats and phantasms for more modern heroes.

>>58968455
It's magic.

>>58968455
Next, are you going to start complaining that excalibur didn't actually shoot giant laser beams?

>>58968444
Funny enough Nasu wasn't the first gender bender Arthur. There was a book in the 1940s about Arthur being a girl, though in that scenario she had an older brother that died and her father told everyone that his daughter had died instead. Talk about fucking relief when the whole sword thing happened!

People do realize Saber's Armor is magic just like Gil's armor right?

>>58968198
>Somehow Nasu said something like modern soldiers just have exceptional weapons and no skill so they don't qualify.
>Nasu obviously never looked at his servants except for maybe Kojiro, Heracles and some other of the greek ones.

>Heracles
>arrows dipped in Hydra blood

F.
See you in fall semester, Mike.

>>58968508
He might as well complain that King Arthur didn't exist at all.

>Shakespeare
>he knows all these legends
>everyone fucked

>>58968508
Giant laser beams can be written off as part of the fiction. Complete disregard for history when utilizing history as the basis of your plot is another thing all together.

For instance, Gilgamesh's design and Alexander's designs are swapped.

>>58968600
Quit being retarded. It's magic.

>>58968054
>If you were to ask someone about the most famous assassin you would probably get a lot of people that mention people from the last 60 years
see picture

>>58967895
nasu is basically being a faggot about older == better. Or rather, about being "the original". If your legend is just a similar story to another, older one then you're a weak hero. So as time progresses it gets harder and harder bringing something new to the table. While Gil simply wins based on seniority.

>>58968562
Technically the Arthur character is a composite of three different British monarchs and a fourth folk hero.

>>58968455
Okay, now you've confirmed yourself to be a complete and utter retard.

>>58968463
It is supposed to be that she is not famous because she used guns. She is famous because of her ship.

I still think Simo Hayha would make a great Archer and still could qualify since not even in fictional media has his kill count been toppled, and he just used the standard equipment. Plus, he survived a carpet bombing and took a shot to the face and got the person right back before ending the war right when he woke up from his coma.

Time + Retelling. That is how a legend is born.

>>58967743
This picture reminds me how small the number of females there are in F/Z. God damn.

>>58968545
Heracles did most of his feats without nukes, sorry I meant sword and the like.

>>58968632
Magic can explain giant laser beams, not why the man that invented shaving in the military and was notoriously handsome looks like a Babylonian ape seeing as there isn't a single person that knows Alexander as a Babylonian ape. He's a Macedonian pretty boy.

>Did increasingly modern munitions kill even the possibility of new figures ascending to the Throne of Heroes?

Nope. Because nasu seems to think that bringing in historic figures as heroic spirits is awesome. That and genderbending some of them.

>>58968600
You base Gil's design of the old jewsh statue of him, which doesn't fit his description.
At best the statue shows him in his late days.

>>58968683
Nobody cares about that faggot. Does he have magical hydra beams? No, I think he doesn't.

>>58968545
Motherfucker fought against the gods and titans barehanded and won, Heracles doesn't need weapons.

>>58968664
Yeah, which means he never existed, like nearly all the heroes in folklore.

>>58968244
So, if Arturia had died, and ascended to the Throne of Heroes properly, we might have gotten a male Arturia?

>>58968600
If I remember correctly Gil is supposed to look like the "original" Humans of the Nasuverse. Alexander's design is also explained away.

In-Universe explaination > Historical accuracy, in a series that is not trying to be Historically accurate. Deal with it.

>>58968684
At least that makes it less likely to become moeshit.

>>58968740
Just stop. It's magic.

>>58968821
Basically you're admitting it's shit.

>>58968851
I'm admitting it's magic. Can't deal with the magic? Too bad.

>>58968684
That's why the proportion of yaoi to straight fanmade drawings is ridiculous

armor anon managed to derail this thread into a faggot fest.
5/10

Thanks you fuckugly asshole, i hope someones chokes you in your sleep.

>>58968892
That explanation is always associated with, "it's shit," because it's trot out whenever the subject in question is shit. Therefore, it's shit.

OP here.

I genuinely did not expect this thread to turn into a ragefest. My apologies, /a/.

>>58968851
>Minor historical inaccuracies
>IT'S SHIT
Stay autistic, /a/. You're the only one in the entire world who gives half a flying fuck. Deal with it.

>>58968463
So question, are non-human beings allowed into the Grail War? I know Medusa is in the war, but would she count as a Gorgon?

And no, discount Tamamo.

>>58968989
> minor historical inaccuracies
Rommel was a fox.
Nobunaga was blonde and blue eyed.
Obama is white.

I don't like the firearms restriction myself, but hey, it's his story. You can always fanwrite something different.

On the bright side, we're getting an F-15 in April.

>>58968384

Amen to that bullshit. I'm a Type-moon fan but even I agree that's Nasu just saying he doesn't like and doesn't want to understand firearms.

>>58968973
Magic is part of the setting. If you can't deal with that, fantasy is not for you.

>>58968973
It's magic. I'm sorry that you're allergic to magic.

>>58969041
I think they count as humans. Not sure.

You'd have to ask Nasu himself.

>>58969061
Obama is just as white as he is black.

>>58968384
Guns are easy. I can fire a deagle with one arm and shoot a shotgun from the hip

>>58969085
So would that mean that Nobunaga is not allowed in the war despite him being one of the three leaders to unite Japan?

Also, female Waver looking exactly like the male one but with a skirt really tells me that F/Z is an enormous fag fest.

>>58969041
>So question, are non-human beings allowed into the Grail War? I know Medusa is in the war, but would she count as a Gorgon?

I think as long as the hero was mortal (as in could potentially be killed), then yes. That discounts fifth Rider's two sisters from ever being summoned. But even though Gilgamesh, Heracles and Cúchulainn are all demi-gods, and Arturia is essentially no longer human, they could all still be killed.

>>58969085
I can deal with it, when it's not pants on head retarded disregard everything and only use the names magic. That isn't magic at all. It's shitty writing. We already have to deal with a million and one shitty Vlad the Impaler interpretations because of Dracula.

>>58969173
So what about a being like Echo? And if we include Strange Fake, wouldn't summoning a disease be something like that?

>>58968973

>>58969131
Yes, and he was born on the moon and flown here on a magical rabbit ship surrounded by parading mariachi aliens as solar waves cascaded across the universe while cosmic lightning played purple haze and astral thunder played sympathy for the devil and Jupiter belted out Ave Maria.

MAGIC GUYS!

>>58969191
All of your complaint have been explained in the thread, you just choose to ignore the explanations.
>>58968793
>>58968537

>>58969191
No, that's magic. If you can't handle it, then you need to get away from magical works for a while.

>>58969280
Sounds awesome. Fund it.

>>58968384
Detailed weapons training for a modern soldier is about six weeks, whereas, as the english say, "To train a longbowman, you start with his grandfather".

I just read every post in this thread.

Why was this so interesting?

>>58969280
You lost me at Ave Maria, but it sounded good until then.

>>58969396
Welcome to Type Moon works, where the discussion is hundreds of times more interesting than Canon.

>>58969396
Magic.

>>58969284
It's magic is not an explanation. Someone with some kind of oracle-like premonition seeing a 1000 years into the future and then walking to the highest mountain where the ox-ogre-blacksmith lives and asking him to build that armor with the materials gifted by the divine gods, then the ox ogre spending two hundred years crafting said diving armor while his work caused eruptions around the world, and when he was done the one destined to wear it is born it's given as a gift for that person to wear? That's magic.

>>58969405
You talkin' shit about Ave Maria?

>>58969448
You're just as bad as those anti-fun guys on /v/. Go fuck yourself.

>>58968537
>People do realize Saber's Armor is magic just like Gil's armor right?

I hope so. It's kind of a major plot point in Fate/Zero.

>>58969460
He's talking shit about Ave Maria and Jupiter at the same time.

>>58969448
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ArbitrarySkepticism

>>58969448
I, too, wish I could decide what is and is not magic arbitrarily. It's magic, the posts I linked to explained the In-Universe canon. Deal with it.

>>58969393
Well, to be fair there are some soldiers who go above and beyond what they teach you. I mean, Mad Jack got a kill with a bow and arrow in WW2 where everyone used guns. And he used a claymore in battle. Simo Hayha disregarded the use of scope and has more sniper kills in a single war than anyone, even in fiction. Audie Murphy was a hero not for simply using his weapons, but turning tides of battles with his sheer badass.

Don't quote me on that.

Pretty sure these guys could qualify as heroic spirits

http://www.cracked.com/article_19472_the-5-craziest-soldiers-fortune-to-ever-cash-paycheck.html

http://www.cracked.com/article_19534_5-soldiers-who-kicked-ass-in-face-death-and-logic.html

http://www.cracked.com/article_17019_5-real-life-soldiers-who-make-rambo-look-like-pussy.html

http://www.cracked.com/article_19260_5-soldiers-whose-horrific-injuries-only-made-them-angry.html

http://www.cracked.com/article_18429_6-soldiers-who-survived-shit-that-would-kill-terminator.html

>>58968793
>If I remember correctly Gil is supposed to look like the "original" Humans of the Nasuverse

You remembered wrong because that was never stated or hinted. The original humans would be the Neanderthal, which far predates Gil.

>>58969547
>cracked.com
Well, I guess I'll be fine without sleep just a few more hours.

>>58969487

He has a point though, a fictional universe should have some basic internal rules and laws that it follows. Those laws don't have to be the same as in the real world, but they should be there or it will just become stupid. Just saying 'it's magic' to explain everything shouldn't be necessary in something that is well written.

>>58969487
I'm not anti-fun, I'm anti-shitty cop-outs.

The myths used as a basis for the characters have those sorts of details in them to explain how shit got done. Simple, quick, clean, and grandiose at the same time. Why shouldn't I expect more from the writer then? If people 4,000 years could come up with those details to explain their mythology then a writer 8 year ago can spare some time explaining more than just "magic guys! It's magic! MAGIC!"

>>58969527
I never disputed that some soldiers are extraordinary, that's not the issue. I was just saying that guns ARE easier to use than weapons of past centuries.

Okay, reading this thread, one guy is arguing that Saber is not supposed to have armor since it wasn't even invented at the time.

>It's fucking Nasu, he can't into historical accuracy very well
>ARMOR MADE BY THE FAIRIES. ITS FUCKING MAGIC

Pick any.

GUYS!

What if King Arthur was man?

What's all the talk about this magic bullshit?