>dat feel when Chinese
>dat feel when Japanese moonrunes is smalltime

i already saved this image what is it doing on the top of the first page

>>57763746

>learning Mandarin/Cantonese

What are you some fucking red commie swine?

The red text is true.

>>57763733
>>>/jaypee/

>learn korean
>hanja (korean version of kanji) almost irrelevant
feelsgreatman

>Implying any native speaker has a chance in hell of becoming fluent in moonrunes

>>57763783

>Implying /jp/ - Touhou and VN faggots cares about learning anything

>>57763789

>make easy to learn hiragana/katakana syllabary
>still use kanji in everything anyway

allofmywhy.jpg

>>57763824
Maybe if japan didn't use one word for a fuckton of shit they wouldn't need to use Kanji to differentiate them.

we had this thread 1-2 hours ago and it got deleted very fast

>That feel when no one who isnt a native dutch speaker can pronounce the dutch G

>>57764500
How do you pronounce it?

>Implying any non-native speaker has a chance in hell of becoming fluent in moonrunes

hurrdurr maybe they do that on purpose to alienate you waito pigu

seriously, I never understood all the whining about kanji being "hard" to learn. It just takes some effort in time and discipline (and I guess that's the issue for all the fairweather bitches who can't stick through a challenge) but there's nothing "hard" (as in hard intellect necessary) about it. Just take it in digestable chunks, repeat often and reinforce it through actual usage, geez basic common sense study habits that people should know since first grade.

>>57764668
The CH in Mallach.

>>57764865
Okay... now give me a Dutch word with that "G" in it.

>>57764895
Gestoorde Gek.

Hey, Japanese may have a problem with overusing homonyms but English is brutal with it's multiple pronunciations of the same letter combination.

Through
Rough
Cough
Plough
Though
Thorough

That shit is just not fair

>>57763733
Holy shit, is there a way to read those without knowing how it's pronounced first?

Shit dog, even if I memorized ten a day it'd still take 200 days.

>>57765016

>Implying you can learn any language in less than 200 days

>>57764895
Vincent Van Gogh was Dutch with a Dutch name

If anyone can learn English by trying hard enough, anyone can learn moonrunes.

If you think that's many I don't know what to say.

>>57763733
Already giving up before even trying, where's your spine man.

>>57763824
Reading longer sentences written all in hiragana is total suffering. Those who question the need to use kanji have never read any real Japanese text.

The funny thing is, Kanji was simplified once already, and its still a bitch.

I don't see the need for a lot of kanji, especially if its to represent a noun that can be written in less than half the time in hiragana. For verbs, just have one indicator kanji and the rest in hiragana. If that's not possible, simplify it further.

What's with the different 'readings' of kanji characters?
Is it equivalent to english words having multiple meanings?

>>57764971
But thorough is the same as though.

>>57765205
>especially if its to represent a noun that can be written in less than half the time in hiragana
The time needed to write the characters is irrelevant now that everything is being typed anyway. Reading kanji is much faster than reading hiragana however, and understanding the meaning of unfamiliar words is easier too.

>>57765224
You mean the on and kun readings?

One is how the kanji was pronounced in Chinese and the other is how the word is pronounced in Japanese.

Remember the Japanese had their own spoken language before they adopted the Chinese writing system.

For example the Kanji for moon is "月" in Japan they used to call the moon "Tsuki" but when they introduced the kanji from China, they also brought along the Chinese pronunciations, which was "Getsu" (or is it the other way round?)

But OP, when you've learned that shit and look at it, you just know how to pronounce it. Look at >>57764971 , It's fucking ridiculous.
Also,
>a board about animation and comics
>post something about the language that they are in
How the fuck do you think that's relevant enough?

Its not that hard. When you memorize the radicals you can look stuff up almost instantly. You can learn the 2000 daily kanji easily by just reading the newspaper.

Took around 2 years to become fluent in moonrunes. I'm 3 years into learning German and its way harder as a language.

>>57765224
No, it's literally a matter of having several possible ways of how to read the same symbol. Imagine if the letter "a" could be read as "a", "oh", or "k", while still being written as "a".

>>57765298
>Japan they used to call the moon "Tsuki" but when they introduced the kanji from China, they also brought along the Chinese pronunciations, which was "Getsu"
Not that it makes too much of a difference anyways, the Japanese couldn't pronounce Chinese for shit.　月in Chinese is pronounced "yue".

>>57765345
See: >>57764971

How can Chinese and Japanese sound so different, when the countries are so close?
I mean, look at Europe, almost all of the languages in neighbouring countries sounds similar (with some exceptions).

>>57765016
There is. A lot of kanji are just compounds, with kanji stuck together (there is some name for these...)
Using this you can somewhat judge the meaning, especially when given a context.

If it's the pronunciation you want, then you're fucked. But sometimes you might be lucky and it might be similar to the root. Even then, the pronunciation might change depending what kanji it's paired with...Some words don't even use the actual pronunciation of the character, but have an arbitrary one.

>>57765360
It's still easier for us to learn English because it's the same set of symbols.

>>57765298
It's also very common for one character to have two or more on readings, due to the fact that the Chinese scholars, who were teaching the Japanese the pronunciation hailed from different parts of China and were speaking different dialects.

>>57765423
japaneseisolationistpolicy.avi

Honestly the alphabet is infinitely superior and the sooner the Asians realise that the better.

>>57765441
True, but that wasn't the point I was countering.

I was trying to point out that we don't have to imagine letters have a multitude of different pronunciations because we already have that.

English is a harder language to learn than the far more formulaic languages like French

>>57763733
>implying I'm not already
>implying you're not just butthurt from being too stupid/lazy to learn it

>>57765423
Most European languages are related and belong to the Indo-European language family. Chinese and Japanese however are not related at all.

>>57763733
It's not that hard.
The language is pathetically easy.
Getting hungup over Kanji is pathetic.
Fuck's sake the have caveman grammar and no punctuation, it's literally a caveman language that somehow made it to the modern day.
You could be fluent in a year and half's time.
But you won't because you are weak and lazy.

>>57765298
>>57765345
>>57765428
So a single kanji character can have different voicings.
But in all of the different voicings it still basically means the same thing?

>>57765516
Hey, Japanese is classified as a super-hard language to learn.

It takes approximately four times the time to learn Japanese than it does to learn Italian, French or even Danish

>>57765338

This. Swefag here, fluent English, German, Japanese, Spanish and picked up some mediocre French. English can be a bitch but there's a constant exposition to English media. Japanese has the Kanji fuckage, but at least it's mostly consistent. German is just a fucking bother.

>>57765556
the thing is, "super hard" languages are still pretty easy

>Spanish
>any combination of letters can only be read in one way

English, are you even trying?

theres a reason why gooks are great at memorizing but fall apart when you ask them to do any sort of critical thinking. theyre trained using wrote from an early age in everything including their language just to memorize and forget. shit is worse than sightreading for english.

>>57765530
This. Korean and Japanese have different roots from Chinese.

>>57765552
Well, yes and no. While the general rough meaning tends to remain similar, it's not always the case. 支 for example can mean both "branch" and "support".

Sure is a lot to memorize, but apart from that easy as fuck. English is way more denser, brah.

>>57765580
Try learning one of the Slavic languages. You'll know the meaning of the true suffering when every single word is changing constantly.

>>57765651
English isn't hard, just annoying with it's quirks.
I don't even remember how I learned what little English I know. I never did any formal study of it, I kind of just picked it up with time.

>>57763733
Well I'm surprised at how many I recongise and still need to keep up my studying.

>>57765556
I would put that down to effort, it isn't hard it just takes alot of effort, if you can push through learning the Kanji you'll do fine.

The only pernicious ass-ache of Kanji is learning a word, finding its kanji, then coming to find out it's written in hiragana roughly 90% of the time, and really they don't even use that 50% of the time and just use the english word instead.

>>57765483
Surprisingly, Koreans actually use an alphabet.

easier than you think. I live in japan and being surrounded by kanji all day means you advance pretty quickly. for a start I teach 700 kids a week and have to know how to read their names. then you have stations, shops, ads, forms to fill in, bank letters, contracts etc.

knowing what they mean alone is easy and can be worked out solely from context most of the time. it is the changing pronunciation when combined that is hard. the 1000 red ones on that image are piss easy. give up now if you struggle with those.

>>57765701

In fact, no language is "hard" as in it taking some sort of high intelligence to solve something. The only difficulty in language learning comes from memorization. You don't need to be smart in any way to learn languages.

So, what do I do to learn japanese for myself? Are there some books anons would recommend, maybe some sites that help you learn?

>>57765729
Sup Dan.

Look pretty simple to me. I grasp a sense of the meaning immediately when I see a word.

If I'm trying to learn kanji, should I bother with Heisig's books or just try to learn the most common ones some other way?

>want to learn Japanese
>I am a terrible procrastinator and have trouble deciding where to start and with what to start
>the Japanese course in my school isn't actually held in my school but instead in some other school far away
Feels bad.

>you will never be Japanese
;_;

>>57765724

Doesn't make it any easier to read/write.
>crop circles
>alien text

How the fuck can someone hate kanjis?

Oh, right, mad weeaboos who can't read their VNs.

I don't give a shit about HURR CAN'T READ MY VISUAL NOVELS PLEASE REMOVE KANJI JAPAN because I actually like dem kanjis. It's fun to learn them, even if they don't have any utility for me.

>>57765423
Well in Europe almost every language is based on Roman or uses Romanic symbols, combined with some ancient Greek which merged into Roman anyway.

In Asia though the two countries were never united and never shared a single language across the region.

>>57765793
I found Heisig's method to be absolutely ass-backwards and fucking retarded, however there are people that swear by it.
I just slap kanji in Anki, take their Kun/On from Jisho and review the whole deck every month.
Mnemonics don't work for me.

>>57765793
Everyone has different opinions on this. Personally I did Heisig and I think it's great. The point of it is to familiarize you with kanji. If you do Heisig then once you move on to building vocabulary you won't be struggling to remember the kanji, because you'll already somewhat know them. All you'll have to remember is their combination if any and what the word is.

>>57765793

notice how every single kanji book starts off by saying 'the problem with every other kanji book is...'

they are all just as shit. find your own way.

>>57765793
http://kanjidamage.com/
far better than heisig
>>57765759
best books would probably be genki

also use anki for learning kanji

The most fun thing about learning your first language outside of your native one is that you get a real good glimpse into how retarded languages are in the first place.

>>57765793
His method is really weird, but damn, I won't ever forget those kanjis.

Just don't expect it to be a linear thing. You won't go JLPT 4 > 3 > 2 > 1, you will go basic radicals > more radicals > even more radicals

>>57765937
I wouldn't say it's fun as it is infuriating.

>>57765865
You are confusing languages and writing systems. Most European languages are both related (>>57765530) and use the same or at least related writing systems. Chinese and Japanese however use de facto the same writing system, but their languages are completely unrelated.

>>57765875
>>57765879
>>57765915
>>57765931
I'll check them out. Thanks.

>>57765875
>>57765879
>>57765931
Ok, but what about grammar and shit?

>>57765995
Well, some retard just decided to bring over kanji from China and some other retard just decided to replace the entire imported system.

>>57766026
Genki.

I've also used this software called "Human Japanese" (pirated obviously) and it has nice and simple explanations on grammar, but the vocab parts are bit iffy and only have kana.

>>57766026
Genki will learn you grammar good.
Tae kim as well.
http://pastebin.com/Y3eLSAqV

>>57766026
genki is for grammer and shit

>>57766043
>>57766060
>>57766063
I see, thanks. You people wouldn't have pdfs of those books, would you?

>>57766027
It can't be helped. It's not like the Japanese had any real writing system before that. They could have unified the on readings however, traditions be damned.

>>57766106
Just look in the usual places for them, Anon.

>>57766106
Go search the usual trackers.

I know french, potuguese and of corse english.
I don't really need to learn more !

>>57766108
More like the Portugese could have fucking done everybody a favor and enacted a little cultural genocide in the name of making our Asian friends a little less retarded by giving them the glorious Latin alphabet.

>>57765865
>Well in Europe almost every language is based on Roman or uses Romanic symbols,
Only Romance languages are based on Latin.
Celtic, Slavonic, Baltic and Greek languages aren't based on Latin at all, they simply borrow some of their words.

>>57766123
>>57766133
Ok, just wanted to make sure they existed. Thanks.

I don't really want to buy them because english is not my first language, so I want to check them out first to see if I'd have trouble doing it.

>>57766161
None of them can help you read new VNs.

>>57766190
Schoolbooks are pretty fucking expensive.

>>57766179
Oh, and Germanic languages of course.

>>57766210
Shit nigga, you can forget about buying them.

>>57765423
How can Basque and Spanish sound so different, when they are in the same country?

>>57766210
Hm? It seems like these are the textbooks that my friends use in Jap class. I think I'd get a kick out of it if I completed their books before they did/

>>57766298
Competition is a good driving force. I'd want to learn a good amount of Japanese and then enroll in a course and mop the floor with everyone.

>>57766298
Apparently there's a bunch of places using them, even japan universities:
http://genki.japantimes.co.jp/about_en/about09_en

>>57766355
Why are they using it in Japan? Are they teaching gaijins Japanese there?

>>57766298
we used them in our course too
and i'm living in a german speaking country

>>57766409
Text books.

>>57766409
the best textbook you can find
they use it everywhere, even in non english speaking countrys

>>57766060
I just noticed that pastebin has the genki books in pdfs, great stuff anon.

>>57766409
Textbook. Buy it or pirate the PDFs.