You mean [C] wasn't about ECONOMICS, Msyugny and OPEN TRADE?

>>54522534
>most people just dismissed it as ECONOMICS
True, but some people also missed the whole fucking point, thinking "hurr durr Mikuni was right all along, that was the only solution".

>>54522633
>OPEN TRADE
what?

>Implying it's a bailout. Not a loan with shitty conditions.
>Implying the banks didn't already pay it back.

MIKUNI WAS RIGHT

>>54522930
>Implying a loan with shitty conditions isn't a bailout
>Implying that money couldn't have been lent to businesses (including banks) that DIDN'T FUCK UP BIG TIME

>>54522714
Yeah I found that really ironic considering the whole message was "don't play god with the economy".

Now I want to watch [C] again, fuck you OP

I see your [C] thread and raise you an off-vocal version of C.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVm503ZUaLw

>>54523184
A-A-A-ANGEL
Everytime you mention it, someone will rewatch that scene.

;_;

>>54523274
>C without the annoying rapper
YES
YES
YES

Man. I can't remember [C].

Why was Kimimaro able to survive even though his father lost in the Financial District?

>>54522994
>implying the Western European and American business system don't rely on banks to keep liquid.

What an idiot.

IF ONLY AMURIKANS WATCHED SUPERIOR NIPPONESE ANIMUTIONS THEY WOULD'VE SEEN THE CORRECT WAY TO GO ABOUT WORKING WITH THE ECONOMY

>>54523393
So if Enron goes bankrupt then there will be no one to provide us with energy ?
Oh wait

>>54523387
They never spelt it out but probably because he killed himself.

>>54523387
Because his father killed himself before being bankrupt.

>>54523467
>>54523458
Oh, okay. Thanks guys.

>>54523393
Every country needs banks, you fucking retard.
But you know what happens when banks go down ?
OTHERS TAKE THEIR MARKET SHARE.
It's not rocket surgery, just logic

>>54523274
>C
>without MATHEMATICAL ANIMAL

What a shit song.

>>54523467
Actually, he did that right after the Deal that got him bankrupt.

>>54523387
The most popular theory was that his dad cut all his bonds with the family, hoarding the money he got from the FD without spending it on anything. Because of that, the only future he had to lose after bankruptcy was his own.

>>54522534

>>54523505
>rocket surgery

Holy shit this sounds amazing.

>banks destroy themselves through a series of bad investments
>lend them money so they can make even more bad investments

Way to fail capitalism, America.

>>54523549
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTQnarzmTOc

>>54523274
Wow. How did he manage that?

Fuck him for not giving a proper download link. Ripping from youtube always means shitty quality.

>>54523549
BUT
>Western European and American business systemrely on banks to keep liquid,
HOW COULD YOU SAY THAT ? YOU'RE JUST A CRAZY NUTJOB WITH NO GRIP ON REALITY AND YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT ECONOMICS ! I BET YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE A NOBEL PRIZE LIKE PAUL KRUGMAN

>54523615
Disregard that, I suck major cocks. Shouldn't drink this much wine.

>>54523615

There is a download link though

It's only 128kbs though

>>54523449
>Implying Enrorn supplied the majority of energy to America.

The banks that went under does and did supply the majority of capital and short term loans as well as venture capital money and longterm investment to American and international business.

>>54523630
*so how could you say that

>>54522534

Except a widespead collapse of banks would have lead to a WORLDWIDE meltdown, as all the foreign investments going into and out of those banks would have been liquidated. That, and credit would have been basically destroyed greater than it had been during the credit crunch.

This is a widely known fact. Next you'll tell me the stimulus was a bad idea.

>>54523592
I think it's cute how at the end more people rush towards Hayek representing how more Americans are starting to lean towards Hayek ever since massive bailouts and stimulus packages failed.

It's even worse how we decided to follow Keynes' ideas only halfway rather than taxing the economy when it was at its peak. You just can't raise taxes during a bad economy.

>>54523687
>Next you'll tell me the stimulus was a bad idea.
Not sure if ironic

>>54522994

IMPLYING THE GOVERNMENT LOANS TO BUSINESS WILLY-NILLY BECAUSE IT FEELS LIKE IT

holy fuck youre retarded

>>54523549
>let Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac fail
>market crashes completely

Yeah, it was a terrible decision to bail them out

>>54522534
>He says the government had to help the banks else we would have had armageddon

Your dad is right, though. Sure, the recovery is sluggish, but letting it all burn would have been far, far worse.

>He says the government had to help the banks else we would have had armageddon

Your father is right. The problem is that there are companies that are "to big to fail", and that problem is likely to get worse....

>>54523746
GE would like to have a word with you

>>54523746
Yeah I'm not very good at politics, I forgot it was better to give money to people who fuck up than people who contirbute (hence the point of taxes and entitlement programs)
My bad

>>54523703
>you can't raise taxes during a bad economy
Or two wars either, apparently.

>>54523788
>*GM

>>54523687
The thing is, if they had let banks go into bankrupt since the beginning there wouldn't be a widespread collapes: the banks in a bad position would go down, while others would take their place.
The situation is precisely that.

/a/ - Econ 101

>>54523703
If nothing else, at least it's catchy.

>>54523687
Really, the best move would have been for the government to nationalize banking and control it directly.

>>54522994
>paid it all back
>paid back all the bailout money Obama gave them
>still have yet to pay back the several Billion loaned to them during the Bush administration

>>54523811
Where do you think all the assets that the other banks held goes? Do you think the banking industry lives in a bubble and no other industry would feel it? Do you know how integral the American bankng industry is not only to America but the rest of the world? There's a reason China and russia are still buying US dollars rather than letting it free fall. They don't want the American economy to collpase. Allowing the Banking industry to collapse would have destroyed the economy.

Unbeknownst to most people, [C] was made to warn the younger generations of the danger of Keynesian economics.

>>54523505

What bank takes their market share? A MASSIVE elimination of capital transferred to other domestic areas? A smaller bank incapable of handling nor buying the massive influx of capital?

Imagine this. BoA, Citigroup, Wells-Fargo, Bear-Stearns and Goldman-Sachs go under and have their assests sold for auction or liquidated.

How many people are out of a job? How many customers no longer have operating bank accounts? How many loans are now in limbo? What happens to the land, labor, capital during this massive sale? Who can BUY it without absorbing all the bad loans they made? Who would WANT TO BUY IT. If you think we should have just let those banks fail, then youre a fucking retard with no understanding of finance.

>>54523841
You got that right!

>>54523841
>Implying we followed Keynes model.

We didn't. The majority of the stimiuluis package. I belive 80% was tax cuts rather than stimulus.

>>54523811
The problem is when all multinational banks have loaned each other money and a couple of them goes down, then the whole system comes crashing down. No one dares lend any money because they dont know if the receiver is about to go bankrupt. Money supply froze for everyone, the economy was rapidly falling down a whole and about a million jobs were lost a month and close to 10% shrinkage of the economy in the last quarter of 2008. Without TARP, ARRA etc all hell would have broken loose.

But sure LOLlibertarian economics, bring back the gold standard and abolish the fed. More power to you bro

>>54523777
Stop repeating what the media tells you and think for yourself. This is an honest plea.
Where does the money used to bail out the banks come from ? Do you really think it's better to have the taxpayer bear the loss instead of the people who messed up in the first place ?
Right now US bonds have been downgraded, unemployment is high, and the cost of living is rising AND THIS IS JUST THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG. There is no recovery anytime soon in America because it hasn't paid for the mess up of the banks yet. And then you have to add the destructive effects of stimulus and QE which have failed to solve anything and are causing even bigger problems.
If we think the american economy is recovering then you're in for a big shcok.

>>54523549
Capitalism is dead.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/09/07/rushkoff.jobs.obsolete/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

>Implying this is any more than vaguely related to the thread.

>>54523798

the point of taxes. Okay that doesnt even make sense. And entitlements what the FUCK.

ENTITLEMENTS ARE THINGS SUCH AS SOCIAL SECURITY AND TAX BREAKS. THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T GIVE FUCKING MONEY TO A CORPORATION BECAUSE ITS DOING WELL. It gives it SUBSIDIES for doing things that are earmarked for them you thick twat.

>>54522534
itt: fat teenagers and early twenties thinking they know shit about economy after watching a chinese cartoon

man it's just like those spice&wolf threads where everyone wants to open a business


some dday you all will work at wallstreet i am sure of it!

>>54524300
/a/ would make the best, most kawaiest business men ever.

The problem with Keynesianfags is they all go "lol we had to bail out the banks or there would have been a collapse" but they never stop to think that what they did to prevent a collapse might cause something far worse.

>>54524141
Not really it was 30% taxcuts, 30% aid to states to prevent layoffs etc, 30% infrastructure. Search ARRA in wikipedia.

Anyhow, Keynesian stimulus can be tax cuts or whatever, the gist of Keynesian economics is stimulus in recessions. different measures has different multipliers and infrastructure spending has one of the highest, but e.g. tax cut for low and middle income people that are spread out in small sums with each paycheck have pretty decent multipliers as well (i.e. 2.0 Making Work Pay provision in ARRA vs 2.7 for infrastructure spending)

>>54524214

Yes. Yes yes yes yes yes. Who the fuck ELSE is going to pick the tab up? Quit listening to Michelle Bachman and those other conservative wackjobs. This whole bullshit about "the taxpayer paying the bill" is retarded, because you didnt go up to BofA and give them your money. The Fed LOANED them money. Money that needs to get paid back. WITH INTEREST. do you know how many different ways the U.S government gets revenue? I doubt you do.

>>54524435
(which is what [C] was about)

>>54524435
Bush and republicans bailed out the banks and they are Chicago school supply siders.

Troll harder and dont forget Ron Paul '12

>>54524300
Stop being retarded bro. Current situation proves that no one knows shit about economy as a whole and there is no one capable of managing, fixing or even just observing it with reliable results. That is the real problem here. A man with 20 years of experience (or even a whole corporation of men like him) can do as much as a fat teenager.

>>54524214
>Right now US bonds have been downgraded,

Not to investors, just the moron patrol at S&P.

>unemployment is high,

Fair enough.

> the cost of living is rising

Inflation remains low. Quit getting talking points from the rontard idiots on Reddit.

>>54524551
Then both are retarded

I don't like to talk about things I don't have much knowledge on, so I won't. All I know is that if I treated my money the same way both banks and government treated theirs, I would be living in a dustbin and I would be responsible for my own actions.

>>54524635
Seems like you know more about economics than most experts.

>>54524599
Sure there is. We pass a 4 trillion $ stimulus and the economy jumps into high gear, everyone knows that. It's just that no-one is willing to do 4 trillions in deficit spending to bring unemployment down to 3% because it's politically impossible...

>>54524668
So basically the world just needs more Jews?

>WE HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO GIVE THE BANKS MONEY WHEN THEY FUCKED UP

Well, fine, even if you are correct - and I'm not saying that you are - then money should only be given to them under strict conditions. You know, here in Europe we're doing the same thing with Greece right now, but they only get the money in small chunks and with strict austerity requirements.

The banks on the other hand got bailed out/their toxic assets got absorbed by several Bad Banks held by the govt and now again are raking in billions, paying millions to their managers etc.

You know, the money that banks/hedge funds/etc. earn for themselves does NOT help the small people. It goes into the pockets of a few rich people. And a bank's business is basically shuffling money around. Take if from person A who is willing to deposit it and pump it over to company B who currently needs money for example. All the profits that banks make is profits they extract from monetary flow between people.
I.e. they're siphoning money from of the actual, producing industries into the pockets of a few people.

Just consider the timeline
1. Banks are greedy and make risky deals to gain more money instead of doing their fucking job and allocating money sensibly
2. The whole thing explodes in their face
3. Taxpayers have to pay for it AND citizens get forclosed
4. The saved banks rake in billions again and do nothing to "return the favor"
5. They use said money to bribe err... I mean to "lobby" politicians to make the laws that were meant to prevent this from happening again into teethless tigers, not worth the paper they're written on.


The economy is burning like rome, unemployment is on a high, america is about to loose its status as the leading world economy. Guess what... the catastrophe HAS ALREADY HAPPEND. Letting the banks fail would only have made it marginally worse and would have allowed for some market-restructuring to avoid those mistakes in the future. Instead we're facing a double-dip.

Hey, guys, what if we, guys listen here, what if we abolished, get this guys, what if we abolished the capitalist system and tried gift economics?

no c- thread?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufgiEWUcVpY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0nERTFo-Sk

Mandatory

Does anyone else recognize that this shit really doesn't affect you, and that you can't affect it in any way?

I'm leaving this one to the Jews, I'm not going to get in a tizzy just because they're system is falling apart.

>>54524693
Yeah right, the power of friendship will save us. We just have to work together. Doing something like this would be a great challenge and immediate results would be pretty unpleasant AND in the end we don't really have a guarantee that it would work as intended. Is it still so weird that no one wants to do it?

>>54524635
The US government is in debt with maybe 6 years revenues (pulled out of ass, but in the ballpark). That's not something that puts families on the street in the absence of other calamities. In addition, the US government owes half of that amount to itself, and also too the US government has leverage on its creditors and you dont...

>>54524814
Because we recognize that a system where you keep what you earn based on your virtue is a moral system.

The failing economy stems from automation in developed societies. First it invaded agriculture, later it spread to manufacturing. Finally, it is even beginning to chip away at the service sector. There's not enough jobs to go around, and there likely never will be. We already have eliminated most manual labor through machines, and when AI progresses even robots will carry out planning and design.

To all those that will say "STEM" there will never be enough jobs in STEM fields to support an economy. "But all those robots and machines will require maintenance". Sure, maybe once a month per machine. Damn thats a FUCKTON of jobs created.

Face it, supply and demand is dead. The sooner the world realizes, the quicker we can restructure society to account for it.

>bailouts

>>54524879
But capitalism isn't that system. Lawyers are less important than janitors, but janitors get paid significantly less.

>>54524922
What's inflation at for last quarter then, troll?

>>54524922
>are you frustrated, keynes.jpg

>Mfw negative inflation.

>>54524768
Wow that's a lengthy post, I don't think you'll change some people's opinions but at least you'll educate those who are genuinely interested.
>>54524926
I would pay more for a lawyer than for a janitor, what right do you have to tell me I can't ?
And the whole market problems aren't caused by capitalism (at least not its real definition) but by corporatism and government idiocy/corruption.

Something must be done. This is something, therefore we must do it.

This bullshit mindset is responsible for all kinds of horrible policies

>>54524926
You're mistaken. Capitalism is that system, it's just that complacency meant that it is no longer used anywhere.

>>54524959

>>54524814
Capitalism is fine, as long as it's reasonably regulated and anti-trust laws make sure there is no such things as "too big to fail" in any sector.

The problem is that capitalism can hold democracy hostage if it's not regulated. If any company becomes "too big to fail" because it hold some major infrastructure in the country or a big fraction of the workforce then they can basically blackmail politicians into doing anything they want by just saying
>sorry, we'll have to lay off thousands of people unless you do <some onesided law favoring big corps>. think of the voters!
or
>if you don't do that then we'll have to raise costs for <vital service>, just think what it would mean to your constituents!

Of coursep oliticians are not innocent in that because they don't make politics for the people. They just try to please everyone superficially to get elected again.


Capitalism should be "for the people" just like democracy is. If it only serves the interests of the few then it's basically the economic version of an oligarchy.

Time for pitchforks and torches I guess.

>>54524959
>Thinks CPI (an indicator fabricated basically by the same guys who print the money) is a reliable indicator for inflation
I suggest you read more about how CPI measures inflation.
>>54525000
Fucking this.

>>54524989
>mfw AA
>mfw Apple had more cash than the Federal government
>mfw they raised the debt ceiling even more

>>54525009
>He thinks the increasing monetary supply is inflation

Econfag here. The fail in this thread is amazing.
No seriously, are you kidding me?

>>54524989
I think Op is an idiot but Deflation is still a bad thing. Look at Japan for the last 2 decades.

>>54524300
Wallstreet doesn't know shit about economics, it is full of sociopaths with low future time orientation gambling for quick cash.
The housing bubble had no right to happen, everyone with a brain saw it coming when the fed held down interest yet it happened anyway.

>>54524995
>what right do you have to tell me I can't ?

I don't have the right to tell you you can't, but I find it hilarious that those who have a more important job are paid less than those who, under different circumstances, would be absolutely useless.

>And the whole market problems aren't caused by capitalism (at least not its real definition) but by corporatism and government idiocy/corruption.

Oh, you mean no true scotsman capitalism?

>>54525009
"inflation", look it up faggot. It's pretty much non-existant, so your Ron Paulian confused bullshit is moot.

Why not just push all these losses on the poor? Or invade a smaller, weaker country with lots of resources?

Things were so much easier before 1900.

>>54525027
policiticans being blackmailed isn't really free market capitalism. The capitalist response to those blackmail attempts is "it can't be helped"

I've already forgotten about this show. The only thing I still remember is Msyu's loveliness.

>>54525052
>Increasing the monetary supply
>Doesn't cause inflation
Hahaha that brings back memories from when I was studying economics at college and thought I was hot shit.

>>54525098
How could you forgot Masakaki and COST?

>>54524602
You're naive if you think investors aren't influenced by Standard & Poor's rating. There are financial institutions that are obliged by their own internal rules not to invest in anything that isn't AAA.

>>54525098
Msyu = Asuka
Q = Rei

It seems to me that many problems in the economy can be tackled by the citizens who take part in it being educated. And by educated I don't mean educated to any specific "facts" regarding the economy, just educated in general in that they are intelligent enough to use reason and logic to determine conclusions under their own power.

A failing education system is pretty much the source of all woes I can conceive of at this moment in time.

>>54525041
You're right. The CPI actually overestimates inflation because it doesn't take into account the substitution effect.

>>54525055
Correct, which is why bullshitting about inflasion re: Quantative Easing is ridiculous at a time when we should worry about deflation, not inflation. But that's libertarians for you, the hippie marxists of the 21st century.

>>54525052
>increasing the money supply
>not inflation
>>54525083
>It's pretty much non-existant,
Yeah, if you go buy the changing measurement that is governed by the people who print the money. Sounds reliable, I mean, why would they want to change the way something is measured to appear in a more positive light. Core inflation, lol.

In my admittedly uneducated opinion, bailing out the banks was necessary to keep things running. Banks are like the internet of money, suddenly losing it would kill the flow of dollars to everybody and every business. There was no plan to bypass the big banks, and no time for a proper plan. That said, they shouldn't have gotten off that easy. After being bailed out, they should have been broken down into smaller companies. They dropped the ball, and we had to save them because they were too big to let go down. The reasonable assumption I'm making is that they should be chopped into smaller pieces afterwards so that if individual parts of these banks continue making bad decisions, the market can wipe them out of existence one piece at a time, not triggering any crashes or catastrophes as the morons and unreasonable risk-takers are filtered out of the banking system.

>>54525167
You're retarded if you think the majority of US bonds aren't brought by Countries
>Also you're retarded if you think Countries like Japan, China, England, France, Russia etc aren't still buying tons of US bonds because despite the downgrade the US dollar is still the safest place on the market.