Exposition is for retards, I bet you bitch about Sergio Leone movies too.

Yeah, I didn't really like the Ghost in the Shell movie either.

Now Stand Alone Complex on the other hand was fucking awesome.

It tells you everything you need to know in the film, fucktard.

It is pretty overrated but you're still a retard if you can't figure out that much.

>>40006800
exposition was the reason the Matrix was a great movie..
your argument is invalid

Because it was one of the first things they've ever seen.

As a series, GitS is nothing spectacular.

It's not horrible, but it's not good

They tell you everything in the movie, Jesus Christ.

>>40006868
>Matrix
>great movie

Still wearing your trench coat?

Manga > SAC > Oshii's movies.

Fact.

it explains about the same as any other movies.

who cares "how Section 9 was formed" when it got nothing to do with the movie storyline?
also Motoko explains himself being cyborg read manga to understand more on dialogue with Batou

>>40006923
>read manga to understand more

That's not a good thing.

>>40006923
this pretty much sucks, don't you think?
not being able to understand the movie or series because you haven't read the manga..

it's like every time you hear or stumble upon an anime series or movie, you can't enjoy them, because by the time they end you realize there is manga, series, book that you need to read/see..

i mean i didn't read the Lord of the Rings books, but i was able to understand the plot.. movies should appeal to everyone, even people who don't like reading manga

>>40006974
it still explains Motoko's and Puppetmaster's characters a lot better than movies

>>40007052
Manga is its own universe

>>40007119
which supports the point i'm trying to make

>>40007052
>not being able to understand the movie or series because you haven't read the manga..
manga explains why Motoko decided to become cyborg. it's just irrelevant thing to movie storyline.

to understand every detail of GitS movies and SAC, you should educate youself with philosophy, psycology and popular literature like Catcher in the Rye. there is references everywhere

The problem is not that the movie is hard to understand, the problem is that you seem to be unable to follow a plot unless everything is laid out on a plate. Even a ten year old could figure out what Section 9 is, that it's set in the future and that Mitoko is a cyborg. Of course, they'd be forgiven for not picking up on things which are actually complex, but those things you mentioned are fucking obvious.

Because in a setting that is absolutely soaked with visual language all of which indicates a cyberpunk dystopia I need to have it spelled out for me.


Because the bit in the opening credits with the cyborg undergoing maintenance never had a sign saying CYBORG MAINTENANCE LOOK SHE'S A CYBORG WHERE IS HER VAGINA? SHE DOESN'T HAVE ONE BECAUSE CYBORG.


That is why this movie is shit.

GITS main problem wasn't in failing to explain the set-up well, it's main problem was the stilted dialogue, horribly dragging direction and self-indulgent mis-emphasis of the tone from the manga. The GITS anime handled "lofty" or "deep" ideas in a far less sophisticated manner to the manga. Whereas shirow was able to write them in a casual, natural manner which did not inerfere with the tone of the rest of the manga, Mamoru Oshii instead constructed horribly unnatural scenes as though to say "Oh man this stuff is so deep. I really need to to slowly and carefully force it directly down the audience's throats incase they miss any of it."
So in the manga you get the major discussing what makes her human casually with a colleague over coffee, in the movie you get her delivering this long, deliberate, unnatural, uninterrupted monologue directly facing the audience. DEEP.


I think Git's is one of the not-so-great popular anime to be released around that time. I like Akira and Ninja Scroll way more.

>>40007301

The Akira movie handled pretty weird concepts much better. I prefer being shown shit rather than have a five minute monologue, it tends to leave a better impression.

>>40007173
>literature like Catcher in the Rye

The references to that book in the first season of SAC were pretentious and nonsensical.

>>40007394

I agree, didn't really go anywhere with said references. 2nd gig was superior.

>>40007394
just like quotes from japanese literature in Innocence

>>40007301
Exactly.
The movie was basically screaming;

LOOK HOW FUCKING DEEP THIS IS!

Where as the series just handled the stories naturally.

SEASON 3 WHERE

>>40007653
If Oshii makes a movie about his dog, I'd still watch it no matter how boring it is.

>>40007611
NOWHERE

>>40007611

Spring 2011 if memory serves

somone didn't watch the opening credits where it shows the major's body literally being designed and built, all the fucking exposition you need

>>40007611
there's no season 3 boy, tachikomas are dead ;_;

>>40007547
Well the series has its own problems like >>40007394 points out.

>Is Major a cyborg?
Gee OP, is it so hard to look at YOUR OWN FUCKING PIC?

>>40007748
If you actually seen the end of 2nd GiG, the tachikomas knowledge,but not their personality ,had been transferred into a new yet bulkier form of tachikoma.

>>40007868
If you talk about the green thing at the end, then no. Watch solid state society, they aren't tachikoma, just dull AI crammed into think tank body.

I watched GitS mainly for them, that's why
I prever SAC series than the movie.

I always thought the true greatness of the movie was in it's animation quality, art direction, tone and setting. While the actual writing and ideas presented are good if somewhat clumsily handled, the real impact is in how beautifully the film captured the atmosphere and theme of robot-based cyberpunk. Also, the writing sounds a bit worse in the dubs than in subs, because while the english VA's were competent with casual dialog, the bits that were intended to have more significance behind them just ended up being clumsily delivered DEEEEEEP bits.

Because it was so early, lots of people saw it as a dub first, though. At least it wasn't as bad as the original Akira dub.

Also, as far as writing and delivery goes, I would say SAC is better, but a serialized show can't exactly match up with the visual quality of the original movies.

GitS was a well-animated eyecandy for kids that acts like it invented the "what it human and whatnot" question that has been bothering humanity since the Roman ages.

It wasn't bad but if you think it was a masterpiece you are approcimately at the mental level of those kids who watch Barney and think that One Piece is the best shit ever.

If you want something genuinely deep about life and mechanics, go read Ashimov.

OP watches too much fucking Naruto.

>>40008297
>asimov
>not shit
Enjoy your autism

>>40008241
This. It suffered from the usual Mamoru Oshii direction, but everything else was superb.

>>40008297
I bet you think that Tolkien wrote the best fantasy, too, don't you?

what the fuck is this SAC everyone is talking about?

>>40008241
>I always thought the true greatness of the movie was in it's animation quality.

Because it was.
Welcome to "Not Being Able To See The Burnt Down Forest From That One Golden Tree With Rainbow Fruits In Front Of You." Land.

Population: Sadly, not just you.

>>40008354
>>40008367
>trolololo-lollolo-lollolo-lo

>>40008468
Asimov is a terrible read and only the spergiest of nerds think it is quality literature.

>>40008386

Stand Along Complex - it's an alternate series based on the same universe/characters. Unlike most things in that vein, it's actually really good - respects the source material, but innovates from it.

Unlike both the Manga and the original Films, it takes a slightly more conventional approach to the storytelling, going for a more police-drama thing, with cyberpunk and robot-theory a heavy influence in the background. Still, definitely worth a watch.

>>40006922
>Manga > SAC > Oshii's movies.
fact idd
first movie was fine,
the second contained way too much french neorealism
>inb4 the movies are overated the rest is pure awesome with the manga being the best...

>>40008535
Quality genre fiction, yes, but lets not pretend like you've read Infinite Jest or anything
>>40008367
If you've read any other fantasy you'd know it doesn't get much better. Seriously. Try to name one.

Ghost in the Shell

TV series>Manga>>>Film

>>40008297
there is better scifi writers than Asimov.

>question that has been bothering humanity since the Roman ages
you should go back to read philosophy

>>40008241
Don't forget, the first movie was released in 1995. In it's time the animation is superb, that's the fact that the newer watchers always fail to see, just like Lain.
I remember watched those two (Gits & Lain) in around 2002/2003. It's like watch the first matrix in 2000, the animation can't be considered superior in today's standard, but it open new horizon in it's time.

>>40006758
I think the film's biggest problem is that it's basically the very, very end of the manga storyline without any of the proceeding material. The first time I watched the film I couldn't help but feel as if I'd missed out on something preceding the events of the movie (and of course I had).

Now, to be honest, the GITS manga isn't very good. Shirow's a great idea man; he's got all sorts of crazy cool stuff that he throws into his work, his tech designs are great, and the philosophy angle is interesting, but his execution sucks. I honestly think SAC is far and away the best version of GITS, as it does the best job of using and executing all of those elements while also having a great plot. 2nd gig is, in my opinion, one of the greatest anime ever made, period.

>>40008468

Wasn't trying to say that Asimov isn't a great writer. Just pointing out that Asimov and Tolkien share similarities: they're both excellent writers, they're both early/arguably beginning of their respective genres, and both have tons of hero worship poured on to them.

They deserve respect, it's just that fans of SF and fantasy tend to take that respect, and shit all over everything that comes after, because nothing could POSSIBLY live up to Tolkien/Asimov. It's a disservice to anything that comes after - if we stopped creating at a perceived pinnacle, we'd still be spouting greek tragedies and drawing oxen on cave walls. Just sayin'.

Only the first GitS manga was great. Man-Machine Interface was just a pain to read.

>>40008731
...ok that we can agree upon. I'm quite sick of people comparing new authors to the fathers of the genre. It makes me feel like we'll never evolve in genre fiction. It's been stagnating for years already, why not shit all over it too, like you said

>>40008731
I think Tolkien accidentally killed any potential the fantasy genre had.

>>40008722
listen to this man

Wow, civil, intelligent discussion on /a/. I guess all the kids are back at school.

Even Bleach deeper than GitS.

Ghost in the Shell thread? Ghost in the Shell thread!

>>40008690
>Lain
>superb animation

what_the_fuck_am_I_reading.jpg

Apart from the last couple of episodes most of Lain was static as fuck and quite obviously made on not much time, money, or other animation resources. Most of Lain has Beetrain-level corner-cutting and pan-shot usage.

Can someone tell me the different of each movie & series? It's like they're from different universe.

>>40009102
The movies, 1995 and Innocence follow a separate continuity from the SAC TV series and Solid State Society. But the TV series/SSS also reference the original movie at times.

i think you can gather that she's a cyborg when, i dont know, she's fucking invisible. or when she tries to rip the hatch off of a walking tank. that might be a hint that the movie is set in the future
you're a fucking shortbus retard

>>40006758
SAC>>>films

>>40008850
>>40008647

Only in the high fantasy world. Of course, if you try to write a fantasy novel that has the Dwarves/Elves/Humans dichotomy with a dark, unembodied evil and an un-assuming hero guided by wise, good-willed wizards/whatever, you're going to run into trouble really, very quickly. Tolkien cornered that market.

>>40008647

Some folks who do things different (going off the top of my head here, so sorry for the 'big name' authors): Terry Pratchett, Gaiman (Stardust, American Gods), Phillip Pullman before he got preachy. Not saying that they're better than Tolkien, which is a pretty silly thing to say, but they did something different than Tolkien, and did it with something between basic competence and skill. Hell, even Harry Potter managed to be a decent series of children's lit, even if it did spawn an entire subgenre.

If you're looking for traditional high fantasy, the only one I've read that I felt wasn't washed up in Tolkien's shadow was the Memory, Sorrow and Thorn trilogy by Tad Williams. It's got a lot of the tropes that Tolkien established, but manages to use them much more creatively than most other high-fantasy clones do.

>>40009045
I didn't say Lain's animation was fluid and lively, but even it's use of static scene is quite innovative in it's time and suitable for the atmosphere. Remember, it was released in 1998. Watch the anime from that period (e.g. nge), and you can see what I say.

>>40008731
There are writers who are great because of the story they write and some exceptional ones are great for creating something that a lot of people can use as templates, in this way directly aiding the creation of multiple good series. These are these people.

These are people like Tolkien for fantasy, or Toriyama for shounen. There are shits better than them in both genres, and shits better than them that don't use their templates al all, however there are also plenty of good things that came from their templates, by various writers.

Generalizing genres an allowing more works to emerge, are their accomplishements, and thus should be taken noted.

As for all the rest of the good "unique" books, those would have come into existance with or without them too. And they still come out even today too. You just have tofind them.

>>40006758
>how the fuck am is supposed to know what section 9 is? that it's 2029 and Motoko is a cyborg?

Maybe try watching the actual damn movie first before posting ludicrous garbage like this.

Try again, kid.

>>40006922
More like Opinion. Opinion that i happen to agree with, but opinion none the less.

>Waaaah I want characters giving longwinded expository speeches to each other about things they should already know
You need to read Dune

>>40007547
You DO know that is a copy pasta right?