idk, man. samurai champloo paints japan as a shit hole. so does the kenshin ovas

>>32478552
Thanks, I'll check it out, although I was hoping for less of a traditional setting, and more of a modern one, but I guess I should have specified that.

>>32478465
Yup, no other countries do this at all.

isn't that how USA make their movies ?

>>32478465
>Why isn't everyone dying in my family film?!!?!? BAWWWW

Summed up your post, faggot.

Grave of the Fireflies?

Satoshi Kon criticizes the hell out of Japanese society.

>>32478903
Have you seen the film?

I'm not saying I want death/morbid themes, although they come hand in hand with realism.

All I want is a movie that isn't an excuse to glorify the culture of Japan.
You can make a family film without those kind of motives.

>>32478947
He's one of the few I've found who I've respected in terms of viewing their own society in a more objective way.
Thanks for reminding me there are some out there.

>>32478948
Japanese movie, exemplifying Japanese values.
Not sure the problem.

>>32478827
>>32478897
In response to both of you, Japanese anime take it to a whole new level.

>>32478947
Oh god you mentioned that.

There's Tokyo Godfathers and Paranoia Agent both anime that were created by Satoshi Kon. Welcome to the NHK is a good one about hikikomori.

No, most entertainment are not social commentary. Sorry to disappoint.

>>32478932
Watch for massive B'aww attack :D

Watch a manly animu film like Akira instead.

>>32478995
Except no

>Japanese animation targeted towards Japanese people

Yup, totally wrong here.

>>32479016
this is the hard truth
only the big names like Miyazaki, Kon, and Oshii can pull out a strong social commentary in their works.
The rest is stuck in machine that is desperately trying to make some profit.
Not their fault.

I kind of understand where you're coming from OP, but you seriously sound like a whiny bitch.

Off the top of my head, none of Mamoru Oshii's movies glorify anything. Jin-Roh is a nice portrayal of Japan's fascist tendencies, the GiTS movies aren't really optimistic of anything, the Patlabor movies are great shit too, and show a decaying side of Japan right as the '80s bubble burst.

why the fuck do you need an anime telling you things about japan you already know? what kind of satisfaction can you get out of the fact some nation reflects about something you do not like about them?

>>32478465

did you see it at the FFF? Were you the manchild that stumbled on the completely even floor and then angrily stared at the invisible object?

>>32478995
You might want to stop watching anime exclusively then.

real japan summed up into this awesome classic.
Ikiru - Akira Kurosawa
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt004741/

Fires on the plain is also very good.

>>32479142
Maybe I phrased it wrongly, I guess I did sound whiny, but you must admit is frustrating to try and look for some kind of real representation of Japanese culture and be met with egotistical wanking sessions disguised as movies.

>>32478948
Did you miss that bit at the end? All the countries get in on the so called "glorification" of family values.

But yeah, Satoshi Kon is good for what you're looking for. Are you asking for something that specifically criticizes Japanese culture, or something completely lacking in any kind of opinion of Japan? Because if you consider SW to be over the top in it's presentation of it's moral, I'm not sure if I can help you there.

>>32479196
I thought I made it clear, I'm not getting satisfaction from this. I'm disappointed that all I've been able to find is this kind of self-glorifying stuff. I know there's a real Japan behind that kind of stuff, and I'm just asking if anyone can help me find a way of finding it in movies.

>>32479324
it's not just Japanese anime, and no they don't do it to a whole new level. Maybe you should stop watching anime and watch/read other medium.

See: Transformers, Independence day, every American blockbuster that comes out in the summer: it wanks to GLORY GLORY AMERICA!

See James Bond: it wanks to GLORY GLORY BRITANNIA

>>32479324
>real representation of Japanese culture
>anime
Yeeeeeeeeah...

>look for some kind of real representation of Japanese culture

stop watching anime for fuck's sake

maybe watch this http://www.youtube.com/user/rodgerswan

>>32478465
isn't that kind of how america is?

>>32479448
It's EXACTLY how America is.

>>32479386

This was made in Japan, do you want them to succeed in a way that doesn't contain any elements of Japanese culture? Because that's a pretty high thing to ask.

Americans will solve things the American way, and Japan will solve things the Japanese way. I just think you're being too critical.

OP if you want a serious representation of japanese culture without wanking of egos go watch "ikiru"

OP, watch paranoia agent.

>>32478465

What I don't like about Summer Wars is not the overglorification of family values, but that it squeezes out the individual characters. Character development is close to nil; all of the characters save Grandma and Wabisuke are flat and static. This is in close contrast to TGWLTT's meticulous character development and relationships, which I, and probably many other people who disliked this movie hated.

TL;DR If you watched TGWLTT before Summer Wars, you will be disappointed.

>>32479343
I did see that part at the end, and I must admit that did spread this glorification to other countries, but it didn't remove the fact that the other 90% of the movie was idealization and glorification of Japanese culture. Not that I dislike Japanese culture, but I just wish they weren't as self-glorifying in their representation of it.

It doesn't have to even deal with Japanese culture at all, but the thing is, inevitably most anime do deal with it, and I was hoping to find some that dealt with it in a more realistic/satirical way.
Satires give great insights into how a country's culture really works.

>>32479471
This! Have you not seen Independence day or any summer blockbuster film OP?

Watch Ghost stories dubbed

>>32479517
Again you seem to be persecutinf solely Japan for this. There are a lot of movies that present a sort of idealized version of the world, but there are also a lot of movies that have a more realistic view of the world. It comes down to individual taste. Summer Wars just wasn't for you, so stop giving an entire country shit for it. I mean, it's a goddamn family film, not the fucking Hurt Locker.

>>32479517
Again this isn't just an anime thing. Even French protest novels (such as Les Mis), still glorified French culture while criticizing its government. Same with Dickens' works. The heart of morality in Dickens' works could be found in trying to get Brits to act like Brits. Thus the GLORIOUS traits of GLORIOUS BRITANNIA were always upheld (read A Christmas Carol)

>>32479517
Watch "ikiru"

I didn't like summer wars, but I found TGWLTT to be not bad.

>>32479516

>TGWLTT's meticulous character development and relationships, which I, and probably many other people who disliked Summer Wars, loved.

fixed

>>32479517
Maybe you are looking for something like Gintama

You do realize Summer Wars is the director pointing out that modern Japan LACKS these things, right?

Hosoda is totally cool with the western world.

I like this thread.

>>32479674
>>32479471

These two.

>>32479471
By all means, I want it to contain elements of Japanese culture, just not the glorification of it.

I'm from Ireland, and there are plenty of examples of representations of Irish culture without glorifying them. e.g. Intermission

In fact, most of the glorification comes from American attempts.

>People acting like American films don't always have apple pie in one hand and a flag in the other while talking about Freedom

>>32478947
>>32478947
>>32478947
>>32478947
>>32478947
>>32478947
>>32478947

>>32478465
Watch Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei.

>>32479448
>>32479463
win

>>32479516
fucking this. hell, the main female lead was sidelined until the last 20 minutes or so

>>32479747

>implying it's not cool to be unpatriotic
>parroting something that hasn't been true since 60 years ago

>>32479702
Jesus Christ, you just keep on whining, don't you? Movies are fake. Deal with it.

Hint: Kenji is the normal japanese kid. Two working parents, no siblings.

>>32479621
Look, I'm not saying that Japan is the only country that is doing this, I'm just saying it does it a lot more in its movies than others I've seen, and I know that Japan has movies that aren't like this.
I'm asking what they are.

tl;dr please inform me of Japanese movies that aren't like this, because I know they exist, but they're not very easy to find.

>>32479849
Well, now no one's gonna help you with your request because you've been such a little bitch about it.

Wow. Sure is butthurt weeaboo in here.

>>32479827
I'm not saying there shouldn't be fake, cheesy movies! Keep making them to your heart's content, they have their own place int he world.

For the last time:
I'm asking, what are the Japanese movies that don't.
So please stop putting words in my mouth. I'm not saying all movies are like this.

>>32479888
Guy in the back is just mad cause she wont fuck him. Also DEM LIPS!

>>32479898
Again, you should have just asked that straight in the OP without all the whining.

>>32479849

I"VE BEEN FUCKING TELLIING YOU.

go watch "ikiru" directed by akira kurosawa

OP apparently doesn't notice that America/Hollywood are even worse for this bullshit?

Even when adapting foreign films -- they also shift it to take place in America.

Eg: Transformers, Dragonball, upcoming Akira, upcoming Voltron, etc.

>>32479898
We and most other people just don't agree with how much Japan does this. That's all. I just want to stop the arguing, even if I still don't agree fully with you on how much Japan actually does glorify their culture.

So in conclusion...

Satoshi Kon.

>>32479849
Are you American?

>>32479849
>implying that japanese movies are more stupidly patriotic than american movies

OP, have you ever seen Roujin Z? That might be just the movie for you!

>>32479880

>>32479952
Amerifag detected. Not everyone lives in your racist shithole of a country. OP could be Brazilian for all you know.

Look into the new wave directors that emerged in the late 60s and 70's like Nagisa Oshima and Masaaki Kobayashi for example. There's also a lot of good yakuza and "bad girls" films from the 70 made from a rather critical point of view. Kinji Fukusaki (the guy who made Battle Royal) is famous for his yakuza movies from this time. Social commentary both from right and left is not uncommon in movies from Japan but maybe it's not always easy to pick up on it from here.

What would a Canadian idealized animation look like?

>>32479951
Sorry, I should have responded.
I will. Thanks.
I'm still looking for more movies though.

>>32480032
Canadianfag here, it would...

I dunno. :3

>>32480032
The opening ceremony of the 2010 winter olympics...but with more moe

pic unrelated

Black Lagoon? Theres only one jap out of the main characters, and he's the biggest pussy, while still likeable.

>>32479317
I just Netflixed this movie, what a coincidence. Seriously they have a lot of his stuff on there for streaming.

Watch Boogiepop Phantom - see the true dick side of Japan.

>>32479952
>>32479973
>>32479972

Firstly, I'm Irish, not American.

Secondly, you're right, America does it as well, but I'm so used to blocking out that bullshit by now, I forgot to mention them.

America and Japan are considered the countries with the "Best" economies as of the moment, even though they are both in debt.

Both make movies filled with "AMERICA/JAPAN, FUCK YEAH." because the common person in the country thinks every other country sucks in comparison.

>>32479942
Ok, I admit I may have worded my OP badly, and sounded whiny, I guess I was frustrated at my failed attempts at finding stuff that isn't like that.

And I think if you'll read my OP, you'll notice I did ask that in the second paragraph.

That's one of the reasons why I didn't really like GitS: SAC 2nd gig as much as the first one.

>>32480143

About half of America hates that shit now. We're a nation of self-loathing, cynical fucks.

>>32480116
nice, what did you think of it?

I thought it's a very good representation of Japanese culture.

>>32480161
What? Japan's economy has been going down for a long time now.

>>32480190

THE MAN KEEPT US DOWN BUT NOW JAPAN STRONG BUT THE MAN KEEP US DOWN STILL BETTER USE OUR SECRET AIRPLANES

>>32480192
...

What part of America do YOU live in?

You dumbass motherfucks, shallow popcorn entertainment is not going to be DEEP social commentary, are you fucking retarded.

Anyway go watch Tokyo Sonata.

>>32480192
Better put, the liberal America, East and West Coasts cant stand that shit.

Everyone else in between though FAPs to the flag 4 times a day, at least.

I have an idea, OP: why don't you just quit anime?
I did that with american movies and feel much better.

>>32480198
Haven't watched it yet, when i said i just Netflixed it i'm talking like a half an hour ago i ran across it along with a fuckton of his other movies as well. I plan on Marathoning them tonight.

Another Kurosawa movie to check out if you haven't seen it yet is, Stray Dog. Excellent fucking movie.

>>32480236

If you lived in New Jersey, you'd be in hell by now!

>>32480241
I've seen it.
Loved it.

HEY OP

>>32480029

>>32480274

West coast? Are we talking about the same west coast here? Last time I checked the west coast had Hollywood.

OP if you are still here i'll say it again, watch Roujin Z, i think it would be just what you're looking for.

>>32480299
I'm hoping there's some out there that match what I'm looking for. It would be a shame to write off a whole genre because the mainstream stuff is overly-sentimental and cheesy about the country's culture.

>>32480303

how long is that. I love Seven Samurai, but its like 4 fucking hours.

related Samurai 7 anime is fucking balls out of the car doin 80- awesome.

>>32480303
thanks, I'll check it out

>>32480348
Thanks, I'll bookmark it and torrent it soon.
Looking forward to it.

>>32480029
Wow, thanks.
I'll definitely check that stuff out.
Should have mentioned social commentary in my OP, that's exactly what I'm looking for.

>>32480329

Hollywood is just trying to make the most money as possible, by selling patriotic bullshit to the majority.

>>32480299
Why should he? Just because I think most movies are shit, doesn't mean that all movies are shit.

For most anime, though, I'm of the type to just turn my brain off and enjoy the ride

>>32480274

Does Georgia count as your perception of "East Coast", considering it's in the Bible Belt?

Seriously, except for the hicks, I don't know a single person who likes that shit.

>>32480460

Really? That's not the feeling you get from movies such as Top Gun.

But most animes are shit... in fact the majority of anything is shit. Thats why we have critics.

>>32480360
It's about two hours i think. But it's a great movie. I got into Kurosawa through his Samurai films ( huge samurai fag) and i didn't know if i would enjoy a movie of his that didn't involve swords, but i think it was one of his best. As for Samurai 7 while it's one of Gonzo's better works , there are some changes to the story that piss me off.( Katsushiro killing Kyuzo, Kirara,) 7 samurai was always my second favorite Samurai movie.( Yojimbo FTW!)

>>32480498
To a certain extent I can do the same. I can watch an anime for its aesthetics/its action/story etc.
But I've become a little tired of that stuff, and want some with more substance.

>>32480522
How bout something this century dude?

>>32480143
Are you a redhead? If yes pics now.

>>32480508
You're a Georgiafag also! Fuck year!

>>32478465

OP. Did you watch Summer Wars in Dublin on Sunday per chance?

>>32478465

OP doesn't realize that Summer Wars is critiquing otaku culture just as much as its glorifying traditional values. Dumbfuck

>>32480561
It tends to be the older 70s and 80s animes that majority of that substance your looking for. New shit is moe shit. Only rarely does anime that come out catch my interest. The most recent anime I watched all the way through was probably Code Geass, and that was just anime meatloaf of different genres.

>>32480603
I did indeed. I'm assuming you did.
Fuck yeah.

>>32480633
Not just Otaku, modern Japanese culture. See: Kenji's family.

>>32480508
NoOOOoohoohoooooooNO. I meant more of from Maryland up to Boston, Florida, and California, mainly. Wasn't trying to be super specific.

>>32480633
That's exactly what I disliked about it.
There seems to me to be a reluctance in movies like Summer Wars to accept their modern culture or even observe it in a more objective way.Everything harks back to their traditional values, i.e. not otaku culture.
I'm not saying they should glorify otaku culture, but it's not that easy to find an relatively objective/unbiased view of Japan's modern culture.

>>32480726
Well that's because they feel that modern japanese society is shallow and hollow. And can you really blame them?

>>32480726
Hosoda aligns himself with the Superflat movement in Japan, One of the whole premises of the movement is to assess and critique otaku culture through its favorite medium. That probably should have been taken into account prior to watching it.

>>32480761
Well, its their point of view, so they're obviously entitled to portray that.
I don't necessarily agree that the "shallowness" is all bad, but that's a different topic.
My point is, all I can find is criticisms of modern culture (although usually they just ignore it) and glorification of their traditional culture. OK, it's fine if they like aspects of your own traditional culture, most people do, but they seem to ignore all the bad aspects of that culture, and all the good aspects of modern culture.

It's kind of hard to articulate, but:

tl;dr
they (the directors/writers of these kinds of animes) take what they like from modern and traditional Japanese culture and meld them together to put themselves forward as the super culture.

>>32480032

all full of nostalgia and folk music:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upsZZ2s3xv8

>>32480567
Nope.
Sorry.

>>32480882
>implying that Japan is the only country that practices revisionist history.

Okay then, champ. Watch a few 1940s-50s Hollywood films and then come back to me.

>>32480938
I'm not implying that they're the only country who did that.
I'm saying specifically within the spectrum of anime, I'm tired of it.

Also, you mentioned 1940/50s movies, these anime are still being made now, that's what's wrong with it. Sure, you could get away with it back then, it's just saddening they're still doing it today.

>they (the directors/writers of these kinds of animes) take what they like from modern and traditional Japanese culture and meld them together to put themselves forward as the super culture.
Then, doesn't that mean they're trying to find a happy medium between the two, rather than glorifying one over the other?

>>32480982
Live Action Japanese films do the same thing:
watch any of the live action pieces directed by Sion Sono or Hideaki Anno, both popular directors, and they do the same thing.

Often times media in a particular genre can be self-referential/self-critical. It makes them stand out from the pulp.

>>32481007
The problem is, they take what they like and ignore the parts that don't fit into their happy-clappy magical traditional Japan.

And, sure, they can find a happy medium between the two if they're trying to create a fantasy land that doesn't exist, but I'm looking for a more sound, realistic depiction of Japan.

no, every country does it

>>32481056
Yeah, I'm sure that live actions do the same thing, and I should have included that in my OP, I guess.

Although, I've found that it's easier to find live-action that are either realistic or satyrical in their approach to Japanese culture and society.

i.e. the examples in my OP
("All About Lily Chou-chou", "Nobody Knows", "The Blue Light")

>>32481112
Good luck finding that.

If I were you, I would just start watching Sora No Woto right now.

>>32479317
really? Japan is a sterile, bureaucratic nightmare?
I mean, Kurosawa is great, but this is about a dying man, not Japan.

>>32481243
Yeah, I still do watch cheesy, sentimental stuff like that, but I was hoping there was more than just that out there...

>>32481279
have you worked in japan before, I mean a real career?

>>32478465
>>yelling at Summer Wars for all the wrong reasons

the only pseudo-nationalistic part of Summer Wars was the fact that America gets blamed for Love Machine.

>>32481463
>implying OP is interested in what a real career in Japan is like and not his own nationalistic agenda

>>32481809
They're not directly saying Japan is great, but they are definitely promoting Japanese traditional values; Samurai honour, ancestry obsession etc.
It's kind of like the promotion of Italian country life by Augustus when he came into power; everyone in Italy loved, and was obsessed with the idea of the traditional, country life, but relatively few lived it.

As I've said before, I have no problem with it being in Japanese media (it would be unusual if it didn't), it's just that it's hard to find anything else/anything that doesn't do that, in terms of anime.

>>32481846
I'm hoping you don't mean the original OP of the thread, because I didn't post that.