>>31878265
Continued:

For Shinji to accept instrumentality is to discard the individual. Anno sees this as the route to happiness because he hates himself as an individual, so if the individual were to be done away with, there would be no more hate. For Shinji to reject instrumentality and choose to live as an individual, in a world with other individuals (represented by Asuka), he is making the choice Anno believes his fans were making when THEY rejected instrumentality.
Anno sees society's rejection of the original ending as them clinging to the hateful world they co-depend on. As such, he tries to show them what that world is like in the End of Evangelion. That's why the original end is all smiles, and the final scene of EoE is violent and hateful.
tl;dr - Anno bent to the will of the fans, but he tried to smack them across the face as he did it.

THE SERIES HAD AN ENDING
EoE WAS A MOVIE MADE AFTER THE FUCKING ENDING
THE REBUILD IS SHIT
EAT A DICK

>>31878317
T_T saged

I am anno-san's penis.

Why do you think that Shinji discards the individual in series ending?

>>31878526
I reason that the ending represents the acceptance of instrumentality, because as we know, Instrumentality was indeed being triggered at the time, and that is what caused the freaky shit in eps 25 and 26 (the sitting around and talking stuff).

Accepting instrumentality fundamentally means abandoning individuality, because instrumentality is the process by which all of creation becomes one.

In order for Shinji's mind to become part of the One Mind, his conflicts as an individual must be resolved. Shinji is defined by what he thinks of himself and what others think of him. He must do all that talking about his feelings crap at the end because that is the way he discards the definition. When he doesn't have to worry about himself or what others think of him, who is he? He can be anybody, because what previously defined him no longer exists.

Basically, instrumentality itself is the process of resolving all internal conflict.

just shut up. the whole point of EVA is for depressed children to get their lives back on track. anyone who thinks anything more of it is just stupid. it's not even subtle

>that Shinji did indeed embrace Instrumentality.
>Accepting instrumentality fundamentally means abandoning individuality

Gendo: You are unused to what it is to be liked.
Misato: You've never learned how to deal with the fear about how others feel about you, so you avoid it.
Shinji: But...but don't others hate me?
Asuka: What are you, stupid? It's all in your imagination!
Shinji: I hate myself...
Rei: One who truly hates himself cannot love. He cannot place his trust in another.

Shinji: I'm a coward. I'm cowardly, sneaky, and weak. I hate myself... But I could love myself. Maybe... my life could have a greater value. That's right! I am no more or less than myself! I am me! I want to be myself! I want to continue living in this world! I am worth living here!

[Instrumentality Staging room shatters]

"Congratulations, Shinji!"

Anno: Thank you, mother! Thank you, father!
Congratulations!


>"I AM ME" "I WANT TO BE MYSELF"
>SURE IS REJECTING INDIVIDUALITY IN HERE DUUUUUURR

>>31878780
What is "being yourself" when you have reset everything about yourself? Shinji is defined by hate. When he stops hating himself, the thing "himself' refers to changes. When Shinji "wants to be himself" at this point, he is actually calling for instrumentality. The new "himself" is the free and happy form, and for Anno, that is the form that has no self to hate, and no one to hate it, because all are the same.

I like that theory.

No, Shinji rejected instrumentality in both endings.

And no, Anno was trying to say that denying your individuality, and denying the love of others, is the way to self-destruction. Abandoning your individuality is essentially suicide, either figuratively (wearing a mask to hide your empty shell of a life) or literally (killing yourself". That's what Instrumentality is, as it was purely wrought from a coward itself (Gendo). Instrumentality does not entail becoming free of other's judgements of you or your own thoughts of self-identity or anything like that.

>>31878265
Wait how do we even know that he accepted instrumentality at the end of episode 25 and 26?

>>31878954
>Shinji is defined by hate
What? Shinji was defined by the hedgehog dilemma, the whole series was. He hated that about himself. Becoming a better person doesn't mean stop being yourself.
What the shit.

>>31878686
Sorry, I'm kind of slow here. Then... what does rejecting Instrumentality mean? Is it just NOT resolving internal conflict, or is there more to it?

>I know why Shinji brings back Asuka in EoE

Apparently you missed the whole "people can will themselves back if they want it badly enough" part.

>>31878265
End of Evangelion wasn't Anno lashing out, it was the original ending. The preview of episode 24 showed a draft for the MPE battle.

>>31879144
Because someone says 'This is what your father created. This is instrumentality' or something like that in 25/26.

>>31879174
"rejecting instrumentality" means leaving the borders that divide everyone, from which stems hate and love and all the other complex human interactions we have.

Seriously, this.

>>31879174
Willing yourself back into your own body as an individual and not being part of the hivemind that is the LCL sea.

>>31879216
yea but see:
>>31878780

>Shinji: I'm a coward. I'm cowardly, sneaky, and weak. I hate myself... But I could love myself. Maybe... my life could have a greater value. That's right! I am no more or less than myself! I am me! I want to be myself! I want to continue living in this world! I am worth living here!

The whole ending of episode 25 and 26 was to get depressed faggots to accept the world and accept themselves and their individuality. It was one massive 2 episode intervention for depressed people. Shinji reaches self actualization with his self at the end. The end points to Shinji rejecting instrumentality.

>>31878954

That's just overcomplicated gymnastics. When he stops hating himself, his character simply develops. Instrumentality is effectively the "cure" for the Hedgehog's dilemma, that is, it removes the struggle of having to interact with others and form relationships, by means of removing all senses of individuality.

This is a cheap solution, however, a coward's way out, because as it's clearly shown by Anno, life is not all daisies and roses. There will always be pain and struggle. But if you learn to reject instrumentality, those struggles along the way will help you grow as a person, as you learn how to better love other people, and yourself.

>>31879368
>his self

But yes, you are absolutely correct.

>Shinji, Gendo, and Rei collectively represent some combination of Otaku
7/10

>>31879347

just listen to this, then. it's eva in music form.

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?lleyt2iawm1

Somebody please post the image of the fag who wrote this saying "I chose the name because it sounds deep"

>>31879368
>accept the world and accept themselves and their individuality
How do I not accept?

>>31879521

He was talking to a kindergarden class. The name doesn't make a difference to anything either way.

EoE is the same ending with a lot more money.

>>31879546
If the name is just a name, why does it speak volumes about the content of this horrible anime?

>>31879546
What kind of Kindergarten teacher would let Hideaki Anno talk to the children anyway?

>>31879521
Here ya go!

>>31879524

a) Wear your persona 24/7 to try and get through life without any sort of human interactions, stifling any sort of human expression or individuality. Shini tried to be "The Eva pilot" and tried to please everybody but himself - what do you do?
b) Become a complete recluse, therefore not even having to wear a mask at all, while still not expressing yourself in any meaningful way.
c) KIll yourself

>>31879594

What It doesn't, the name has nothing to do with anything in the show.

>>31879698
>expressing yourself
Not this shit again.

>>31879698

decisions, decisions...

>>31879437
Did that on purpose hence the space. I was identifying Shinji's self has its own entity as opposed to saying Shinji coming to terms with himself.

The name does not need to represent how deep the series is. Seriously, everyone reacts differently to this series.

>>31879737

I just didn't want to say "accepting your individuality" over and over again
I don't mean being flamboyant about anything, just simply not pretending to be someone you're not.

>Watch Evangelion
>"Man, I hate Shinji"
>No John, you are Shinji!
>"Now I hate myself"
>BAD END

>>31879826
This thread is awesome

>>31879765
Yeah, I reread it and realized you were correct.
I'm just not used to non-hillbilly people saying it.
Disregard the first half of that post.

Ok, so OP here again an hour later. I'm not sure I can let you all convince me that Anno was actually so mentally healthy by the time he wrote the ending that he was actually trying to help _other_ people...

From the same "Anno talks to kindergartners" thing, I'll always remember the quote...
Q: Do you like the animations you make?
Anno: I like some of them.
Q: Which ones don't you like?
Anno: The ones that I'm in.

Anno is all about self hatred, and Eva is all about Anno. That much is clear to me. You tell me why Shinji (and by extension, Anno) suddenly becomes mentally healthy at the end!

>>31880472
Because this is the last line by Shinji at the end of episode 26:

Shinji: I'm a coward. I'm cowardly, sneaky, and weak. I hate myself... But I could love myself. Maybe... my life could have a greater value. That's right! I am no more or less than myself! I am me! I want to be myself! I want to continue living in this world! I am worth living here!

>>31880536
We've gone over that already. I'm saying why would that even happen in the first place? Does Anno hate himself so much that he even hates the way he hates himself?

Actually, that sounds plausible...

>>31880472

http://www.evamonkey.com/writings_anno01.php

Eva was basically his way of telling how he got out of depression

>>31880615
>Does Anno hate himself so much that he even hates the way he hates himself?

>Actually, that sounds plausible...

No, it sounds confusing and redundant.

Goddamn it OP fuck off

You are over thinking this
Shinji rejected instrumentality in both endings
Actually, TV end was just Shinji's mind during EoE

And Asuka came back cause that's how she rolls (literally, she had the will to do so, thus she gained an individuality from the rest of the LCL pool)

>>31880785
Alright, sounds good.
I'll tell you what I forgot: Misato.
That adds another co-lineage to the whole thing, so any theory has to match up with both of them.

Also, Anno -> Anon

>>31880921
Successful troll is successful

EoE visualized the whole instrumentality process plus Shinji's rejection for the idiots who didn't get it after watching eps 25 and 26. They're the same damn ending.

>>31881056

And it gave us Shinji fapping scene, MPE vs Asuka (best fight in the damned series) and final scene (which speaks a lot about the statues of the human race, plus Asuka and Shinji's faith)

>>31878526
Depends on your interpretation. Some people think the ending of the series actually takes place during EoE, suggesting that it's just an expanded version of Shinji's introspection during the Third Impact. It kind of makes sense to me, I guess.

>>31881056
I wouldn't say it's strictly a "For Dummies" thing. Episodes 25 and 26 are pretty unclear about whether or not Shinji accepts instrumentality or undoes it.

>>31881209

no it's pretty obvious
even 25+26 has EOE scenes during it

>>31881263
I'm sure the ending was a confusing clusterfuck for GAINAX too.
It's probably ambiguous on purpose.

>>31881362
Oh great, so we're right back where we were 10+ years ago.
Nobody has any fucking clue what is going on.

>>31881258
How the hell is it unclear? Shinji's last few lines, the illusion of the dark room shattering, everyone applauding him for finally learning the simple lesson NGE is trying to teach the viewers. It's such a simple story if you ignore all the unimportant details.

>>31881433

watching Eva for the first time challenged me in new ways while fucking up my mind on several levels

It was awesome viewing experience

>>31881433
That's the point. All we can do is hope for something slightly more comprehensible out of Rebuild. Personally, I'm hoping for a GAR ending.

>>31881258
>Episodes 25 and 26 are pretty unclear about whether or not Shinji accepts instrumentality or undoes it.
NO IT'S FUCKING NOT. "I AM ME! I WANT TO BE MYSELF!" CLEAR AS FUCKING DAY! LEARN TO PAY ATTENTION!

>>31881443
>unimportant details
More like "numerous red herrings."

>>31881481

For Neon GARnesis Evangelion, read the manga

>>31881481
Anno will troll us all and make the end of Rebuild a remastered version of episodes 25 and 26.

>>31881481

If I wanted a GAR ending with my mecha I'd watch any other mecha out there
honestly I think rebuild's a waste of time, hell I even thought EOE was kind of a waste of time. I got everything out fo TV series that I ever wanted, and it was fucking great.

>>31881443

agreed, I don't know what people's deal with it is. I think they all watched it when they were too young.

>>31881532

Or even worse...Asuka stays dead
I can imagine the Asukafag rage throughout the fucking globe

>>31881481
Ah, we finally come to the subject of Rebuild...

Ok, OP here once again: Here are my thoughts on rebuild:
Although Rebuild is definitely a way for everyone involved to make a fuckton of extra money, I think Rebuild still has plenty of Artistic value as well.
I don't think Anno is doing it for anyone else but himself anymore, so I think Rebuild is basically what Eva would have originally been like if Anno had waited ~15 more years to make it. NGE was Anno looking back to his immediate past, Rebuild is a true retroscopy.

They could've made the same thing in a simpler setting without the angels, impacts and evangelions. It would become a normal story about a normal boy finally accepting himself getting out of his shell. I guess no one would have watched it though.

eva threads are the best threads
I love you all

>Shinji x Asuka

Fuck that noisy bitch. Rei is best.

>>31881532
Neon Genesis Evantrollion

>>31881578
>Asuka stays dead
Except she didn't die. We even see her (Or well a giant metal thingy containing her) after the Unit-03 incident in quarantine.

>>31881646

And take out the giant robots?
You just went full retard

>>31881532
That would be so fucking beautiful.

>>31881671
>Shinji x Hand is the best
Fixed that for you.

>>31878317

>>31878265
>Shinji brings back Asuka in EoE
Stopped reading there.

>>31881671
Sorry for liking characters.

>>31881646
If there was no Evas what would Asuka have to latch onto and use as a vehicle for getting attention and praise?

>>31881682
Really? I heard she died, and know in a preview that she shows up with an eye patch.
I haven't watched rebuild yet...been putting it off

>>31881671
Here we go protip: they Asuka and Shinji liked each other up until EoE. When they both arrive at the beach, if they still do is up for debat

>>31881684
I was just talking about the possibility and I already said that no one would have watched it.

Btw, evangelions aren't robots.

>>31881209

this.

>>31881754
Maybe the fights against the Angels could just be interpreted as the characters' challenges in life.

>>31881754

Her looks?
Oh wait, that would make her a slut on top of the tsundere thing

>>31881773

I know
But when you first heard about this series you go:
>OMG giant robots
then the psychological shit breaks out and you're scarred for life

>>31881754
Asuka and Rei could be members of the track team. And Shinji uh.. gets forced by his dad to join the track team too.

>>31881792
>Maybe the fights against the Angels could just be interpreted as the characters' challenges in life.
That's exactly what they already were in Eva, which is the entire reason why the angels never needed to have a back story.

>>31881792

>>31881856
>Asuka and Rei could be members of the track team.
GLORIOUS! But how would Asuka fuck up track as badly as she fucked up piloting an Eva?

>>31881891

Injury during an important race?

>>31881881
That's the most truthful representation of the battles in Eva I have ever seen.

>>31881671
Agreed.

>>31881948
And it leads to a GAR ending.

>>31881881

r'ing more pics like this (basically the end of the end of evangelion)

also this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCLoNOYcVQU

>>31881443
WAT IS THIS I DONT EVEN

>>31881977

Rei always scares the crap outta me in that form

>>31881891
With Yandere

>>31881840

That's exactly why he did it.
Also, there's the aspect of anime genre deconstruction going on in Eva too.

That's why you get the Eva Dancin' and that awful lava episode, and other silly shounen stuff, before it all goes into the fucking deep end. It also reflects how inevitable the failure of personal masks are, and how you can't run away because it's going to come to bite you in the ass

also everyone in the production staff started going crazy mad too

>>31882028

I am not surprised...

>>31882028
OP here again; This anon gets it.

Deconstructivism and all that shit. Yeah, there we go, now I am being convinced of things.

>>31882028
i liked dancing episode

Slowpoke here.
Is the manga out beyond chapter 84?
I can't find scanlations anywhere.

>>31882028
Lava episode was awesome. Asuka's breasts magically grew like three sizes.

>>31882096

Are we talking about the one where Asuka and Shinji have to practice syncro attacks?

>>31881646

You're really looking at Eva the wrong way if you don't consider it to be a deconstruction / re-imagining of the shonen-robot story. You miss out on a lot of stuff imo

Asuka brought herself back because she loved Shinji, correct?

It could be argued that she said "disgusting" because of her feelings for Shinji or because she saw everything he thought and did.

LOL TANG

>>31881861

That's why I never really get why people go so angry over TV End being 'shit" and how EOE "doesn't answer anything" or any of that shit
I mean, it really doesn't matter at all. Half of all the mythos stuff they were just making up as they go along anyways, and gets pretty ridiculous too. The thematical messages are really the only thing keeping the show together, and what it ultimately ends with. It's clear enough what it is from the beginning and throughout, so I don't get why they don't just stop watching once they realize how much they hate Shinji because he's not "badass" or some nonsense. From the start, they should know it's not the show they're looking for.

>>31882123
yes.
>>31881977
??

There will never be an anime as contriversal as Evangelion. ;__;

>>31882161

No, she came back because she's a stubborn bitch (don't get me wrong. Asuka is mai waifu, but comes a time you got face who you're getting in bed with i wish ;_;)

We don't know if she still loved Shinji, but she obviously still cared for him, or she would have hit him in the nuts when he went homicidal kill rage
She knew he had just gone through shit

>>31882149
I don't think there's a right or wrong way to look at Eva. If it was a normal mecha anime, I wouldn't have watched it. I watched it because of the mindfuck and the things that happened during the fights against the angels.

>>31882149
Eva is and will always be about Shinji's emotional journey. The deconstruction stuff is fluff but does not really add to the plot, it mostly just changes the flow and way the story is told, not the story itself.

>>31882161
Asuka came back to life because she had the "will" to. Yui says in EoE that anyone can return from tang if they want.

>>31882161
>It could be argued that she said "disgusting" because of her feelings for Shinji or because she saw everything he thought and did.
Kimochi warui is more along the lines of "I feel sick". Or at least is what makes the most sense to me, since it's what Shinji said the first time he got into an Eva and was filled with LCL.

>>31882215

The problem with Eva is, and has always been, nerds who have no interest in storytelling and instead try to out-sperg each other in coming up with the most convoluted explanations of "HOW LCL REALLY WORKS/HOW LILITH'S SOUL CAN INHABIT BODIES" etc etc. see evageeks

>>31882254
Bakemonogatari

about ''Kimochi Warui'':
>Last line of the movie. Could be translated as "I don't feel well," "I feel sick," "This sucks," "what a disgusting feeling," "I feel bad," etc. This line could have several different implications depending on context, so the proper translation is debated; no interpretation has been offered by Gainax. Even the identity of the speaker is often disputed, with many fans claiming she is an amalgam of Asuka, Rei and Misato, rather than simply Asuka. One of the last lines that were originally suggested was — in Japanese — "No way I'll let you kill me!", but Anno wanted to find a better one. "Kimochi warui" was eventually chosen by Asuka's seiyuu Yuko Miyamura after Anno asked her what she would say if she found out a stranger had masturbated to her sleeping body. The official English version renders the line as "How disgusting".
From wikipedia

>>31882290
It really just means you don't like the way you're feeling. "I feel terrible/sick/disgusted". Anno doesn't have an opinion on what it means but it apparently comes from Anno asking Asuka's VA how she would feel about waking up next to a guy who jacked off to her.

>>31882333

ugh, I know what you mean all too well

>>31882290
>>31882161

Some food for thought on that line. Just watch out for the intentional fallacy-

"Concerning the final line we adopted, I'm not sure whether I should say about it in fact. At last Anno asked me 'Miyamura, just imagine you are sleeping in your bed and a stranger sneaks into your room. He can rape you anytime as you are asleep but he doesn't. Instead, he masturbates looking at you, when you wake up and know what he did to you. What do you think you would say?' I had been thinking he was a strange man, but at that moment I felt disgusting. So I told him that I thought 'Disgusting.' And then he sighed and said, 'I thought as much.'"

>>31882290
I've seen that referring to morning sickness on some boards but don't recall where they could have had sex.

Hey guys here's an idea. The whole movie was (Part 1) Anno was sucking his fans dick while hurriedly trying to finish his godforsaken plot before (Part 2) Anno was putting in his pseudo intellectual bullshit that everyone thinks is a staple of the series but in actuality was just him half assing it due to budget constraints. Seeing as the ending was in Part 2 you can bet it meant nothing deep and was an attempt at mocking what Evangelion is.

>>31882424
>>31882372
>>31882360
So it's basically Asuka commenting on how awesome Shinji is.

The scene where Kumm Susser Todd starts playing is probably my favorite one in all anime. The moment the crosses start to appear on the world and screams can be heard makes me want to cry from the emotion.

>>31882482

...What?

>>31878954

No, fuck face. He rejects instrumentality, he accepts himself as an individual.

Then the second half of the End of Evangelion occurs.

They happen at the same time, yet the episodes take place within his head.

People still don't get Evangelion...

>>31882493
i love it. all i can think is 'man, i wish the ending of the world could be this beautiful'

of course it will be something ugly like a disease or nukes ;__;

>>31882482

back in my day, trolling meant something