but all that shit is /a/ related, why would you take it away?

Don't give a fuck. gb2/jp/.

>>17145951
>Does he actually have any rights to the characters themselves?

Of course he has all rights to the characters. He's the one who invented them.

Personally I completely agree with Zun. He created Touhou and he should have the final say in what people do with his works. Certainly it's true that fans have added alot to the world of Touhou, but they're still his characters and his games should always come first.

Because he doesn't want to sell out. Good on him. Sage for Touhou, go back to /jp/

>he expressly enjoins doujin publishers to restrict the availability of their works and not to promote them to the general public (apparently defined as people who don’t play his games).
TOUHOU = SUPER SEKRIT KLUB

Also, whoever wrote that article, goddamn what a opinionated and uninformed idiot. I've seen his bias all over other articles too. No wonder their users are only a bunch of retards.

not his fault that his doujingame got doujins written about it on a massive scale

>>17146007

Then why aren't doujin sales shut down featuring characters from known series?

Sure it's his right, but I've never understood why he's always been so militant about controlling every aspect of the franchise.

I say this as one of the fans he rejects - someone who is a failure at the games and only really likes the 'world' that pretty much the fan community is responsible for creating.

Is the anime market and the doujin market practically the same thing in Japan or are they 2 completely different groups that hate each other?

I think that ZUN sees that big companys didnt create touhou, or have rights to touhou, yet touhou is huge. He thinks he would be selling out to let some huge company run with something he created. ZUN is making a political stance and I applaud him for it. He sees how the anime industry has churned out shit after shit show and they snub doujins, except for when some super great thing like touhou gets big, then its OH NO WE DON'T THINK YOU SUCK SERIOUSLY LET US MAKE BILLIONS OFF YOUR IDEA.

ZUN doesn't want doujins to be undermined by money and greed. He's following through by keeping touhou as something for the fans, and by not selling out to make millions. There should be more people like him.

I salute you Zun-san.

ZUN likes the freedom he has as a doujin developer. If it were to go commercial, he'd lose a lot of that freedom. Got it?

>>17145951

You don't seem to understand how the doujin circles work.

Creating a doujin is, strictly speaking, completely illegal. The copyright holders simply choose to turn a blind eye on their own rights being violated. Some even go so far as formalize it, like ZUN, who created a legal-type "license" that permits anybody to use his characters as long as it's self-published only (that is, not a professional level operation).

Doujin artists only get to make doujins because the copyright holders, out of the goodness of their hearts, permit them to get away with them. But they don't HAVE to do that, legally speaking: they could sue, and they would certainly win.

ZUN owns all the rights to his characters and has defined in very precise terms what's permissible with them and what isn't. If any big name studio tried to create an anime that doesn't fill his definition of "doujinshi"; he can sue, and he will win almost automatically.

>>17146062

Because the copyright holders choose not to sue.

>>17146111
Isn't Haibane Renmei technically a doujinshi?

>>17146062

Because it's very small scale and the creators usually won't want to do it in the first place.

An ENTIRE FUCKING ANIME is a bit different.

>>17146076
>Is the anime market and the doujin market practically the same thing in Japan or are they 2 completely different groups that hate each other?

Neither. Basically, the doujin market is where you practice and try to get some name for yourself before becoming a professional. About 40% of Japan's mangaka started by making doujinshi.

>>17146111
FUCK YEAR GO ZUN
Holy shit, he's seriously awesome if it works like that.

Echoes of Alan Moore in my brain. I don't know why.

ZUN sounds like a dick.

>>17146111
>Creating a doujin is, strictly speaking, completely illegal.

Clarification: creating a doujin that uses SOMEBODY ELSE'S CHARACTERS is illegal (though overlooked as a standard procedure). Creating a doujin that uses your own characters is, obviously, perfectly A-OK.

touhou, in any form is /jp/

mods delete this abomination of a thread

>>17146195

Shut the fuck up you waste of air, this is useful and interesting information.

What a dick, worse than faggots here


LOL U MUST KEEP MY GAME UNTOLD NOBODY MUST SEE UNLESS THEY SEE ME

It's not just about Touhou, really. I was wondering about this for a while, and the recent doujin anime kinda resparked that.

>>17146131
The creator of the Haibane Renmei doujinshi was intimately involved in the creation of the anime.

>>17146131
Not technically. It is, in every way, a doujin.

It was just one of the only ones to get an anime made from it.

>>17146111
Has never heard of "fair use".

>>ZUN starting to get delusions of grandeur

Ding ding ding! ffs, he created an alias for himself... He wants people to recognize his works on the games, and disregard the many others' works in manga, anime, and elsewhere that borrow from the wonderful little world he created.

>>17146229
HE ISN'T WORRIED ABOUT PEOPLE FIND OUT ABOUT THE GAME YOU FUCKING RETARD. In fact, he wants MORE people to know of the game. What he doesn't want is for people to only be aware of the fan made works while knowing nothing about his games. He has every right to be annoyed at the fan community for overstepping their bounds.

>>17146269
Fair use is about a consumer's right to make copies for his own personal use. Has nothing to do with making or selling doujins.

>Touhou fandom, through ZUN's games or otherwise, is enormous; it'd easily sell well.

Because unlike most of you faggots, ZUN has a well paid programming job and does Touhou in his spare time. Faggots like you only bemoan Touhou status because you're one of those annoying buyfags who wants English-dubbed R1 DVDs and can't see that shit with "doujins". Fuck off.

>>17146111
Keep in mind that, while in the western fandom, "doujin" is synonymous with "let's rape a copywritten existing chracter" that's NOT the actually deffinition.

Doujinshi materials are, by definition, are ANY amateur published work, be it a game, manga, or animation. A good number (maybe as much as 30%, off the top of my head) are fully original works like the Tohou games. As with any original character, the original creator has full rights over his characters, and every right to say who can and cannot use them.

he should make a Yukkuri shooting game

>>17146247

What other anime fit the same bill?

>>17146353
You don't know how wrong you are. Come back when you know a little something about copyright law.

>>17146310

>derp

Don’t overstep the mark in promoting your works (especially by promoting to people who aren’t already familiar with Touhou).

>>17146269

You have heard of it, but don't seem to know what it is. One, it's not legally binding, it's just something you can appeal to in a court. Two, it's a United States thing, not a worldwide thing. Three, even if it was, making an entire comic based on somebody else's characters and selling it for profit is most certainly NOT "fair use" by any standard.

Japan's copyright law is one of the strictest in the entire world. The only thing keeping the doujin market going is an unspoken agreement between the copyright holders and the doujin artists: the former don't sue, if the latter keep their operation low-key.

>>17146373
I'm not wrong, and adding a sage doesn't make you any more right.

>>17145951
ZUN, you used to be cool. Fuck you man. ;_;

It's because he's afraid the animu once done will suck so hard the fans wouldn't want to buy his game anymore thus causing him to lose out on beers

>>17146388

No, you are wrong, but so is he. Fair use contains much more than "copies for personal use", but it certainly doesn't allow somebody to just sell Superman porn comics of his own making for profit, which is the western analogy to what usually happens in the doujin circles.

>>17146385
>The only thing keeping the doujin market going is an unspoken agreement between the copyright holders and the doujin artists: the former don't sue, if the latter keep their operation low-key.

This.

Many professionals now stepped out of doujin circles, so it's become part of the media tradition for people to respect their roots. It's basically a cultural thing.

>>17146398
He's still cool you fucking faggot. The person who wrote the Sankaku article is incredibly biased and distorting the truth. The only thing Zun is doing is protecting his creations from a fan community that has been going over the line for a long time. Touhou is his creation, and while he encourages doujin work based on the Touhou world, he doesn't want that to be the focus and he certainly doesn't want somebody else commercializing his characters and his world without his permission. Zun isn't being a dick, he's just protecting something that's he's put his heart and soul into.

>>17146357

Where the fuck did that come from? I never mentioned any of my personal feelings towards the series... only that the fandom is big and it'd sell well. ZUN's a drunkard, so there's no such thing as enough money.

>>17146388
http://www.chillingeffects.org/fanfic/

Read up and shut up before you know what you're talking about.

>>17146436
- Copies for personal use
- Quotes in articles
- Satire

>>17146414
Most logical thing I've read in this thread.

I'm mad at ZUN until yukkuri become a part of the games.

ZUN would probably hate me. I suck at the games, I fucking love the music and remixes though.

And this is why nobody likes and will never will like fat disgusting otaku

>>17146217
TOUHOU IS NOT USEFUL INFORMATION YOU FUCKING /jp/ PIECE OF SHIT.

GO BACK TO /jp/ AND HANG YOURSELF.

>>17146475
If you had actually read the link you posted you would see it says the copyright holders have to right to prevent you from distributing your fan fiction

>>17145951
>touhou

>and does Touhou in his spare time.
>he's put his heart and soul into.

So which is it going to be?

It's not the fans' fault that an incredibly hard shooting game isn't for everyone, or the other artists' fault that fans like the doujin manga more.

toohoos

>>17146538

>>17146478

I don't know about you, but I damn well wouldn't want to face DC Comics in court if my entire case was "my self-published comic where Superman super-plows Wonder Woman while Ambush Bug watches that I sold for five bucks at Comicon is satirical".

'Sides, like already said, Fair Use is not a legally binding thing. All it is is a possible defensive strategy.

/jp/

>>17146595
I don't know who you think you're talking to but I agree, doujins are not and never will be fair use

>>17146539
What is fair use and how does it relate to Fan Fiction?

Answer: The fair use doctrine says that otherwise copyrighted works may be used for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, or research. To decide whether a use is "fair use" or not, courts consider:

(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

Parody is also fair use.

Under this doctrine, artists have been permitted to create and display their art even if it uses copyrighted works of others. See Court Allows Artist to Sell Barbie Art, for an example.

There is a strong argument that many fan fiction stories are transformative since they create a different persona and set of events for the character. To create a new story cannot be seen as the same as posting video clips on a website. There must be a balancing between protecting copyrights in order to encourage innovation by authors and between allowing works to be in the public domain to allow creative uses.

Whether a court will view this as the case for a particular work of fan fiction depends on how much of the story relies on copyrighted materials, whether the story is sold, or affects the market for the copyrighted work, and other factors. There is no easy answer to the question, which is why it is often a good idea to consult a lawyer who can assess the particular facts of your case.

FUCKING LEARN TO READ YOU DUMBFUCK

>>17146563
>So which is it going to be?

Both?

I know damn well what I do for my day job is the absolute minimum that gets me money. This is because work is bullshit and I only do it so that I can pay the rent. My true passion is in my hobbies.

>>17146563
Yes, he both does it in his spare time and he puts alot of fucking effort into it. The fact that he spends his spare time creating Touhou games should tell you how much love he puts into them. And it doesn't matter if a hard shooting game is for everyone or not, that doesn't give you the right to do whatever the hell you want with his creations. Zun created Touhou and he has the final say in what happens with his work. The fan community has been pushing him for a long time and honestly I'm surprised he hasn't said anything about it sooner.

>>17146563
>It's not the fans' fault that an incredibly hard shooting game isn't for everyone

Yes, it is.

I'm fairly sure that in Japan the gamefags hate the moefags just as much as they did here before /a/day, the transition was we had gamefags who liked moe who translated Touhou into just moe.

ZUN doesn't want to see the games lose their roots and the original creator criticized for shitty professional adaptions.

Look at how bad TYPE-MOON has it with anime and the recent Chaos;Head shit: good and fair works respectively getting the shit treatment and the creators being blamed for it, since "Nitro+" and "TYPE-MOON" are more easily recognizable than the anonymous staff of DEEN or Madhouse.

>>17146630
>criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, or research.
Doujins fall under none of these categories. Nice try though

>>17146630
>There is no easy answer to the question, which is why it is often a good idea to consult a lawyer who can assess the particular facts of your case.

OH BOY THAT SURE SETS MY MIND AT EASE

For fuck's sake, just shut up already.

>>17146630
tl;dr

>>17146678
>Parody

>>17146111
FUCK YEAR GO ZUN
Holy shit, he's seriously awesome if it works like that.

>>17146715

Most doujins aren't even that.

>>17146715
Doujins aren't parody either... good grief... just admit you have no leg to stand on.

>>17146743
Anything is to be considered parody if you claim it to be.

>>17145951
sage for touhou out of /jp/

>>17146760
Oh okay cool, so I'll just copy a CD, add a track where I say "That was just a parody" and it's all good, right?

>>17146708
This just shows that you both don't know whether something is to be considered Fair Use or not. It seems there isn't a simple yes or no answer.

>>17146779

CD isn't a product of your own creativity, stupid.

all of you need to be banned from /a/ along with that asswipe that keeps posting 5 shit

you all have your own goddamn board for this shit. you don't see me making anime threads in /sp/ now do you.

I've noticed whatever weird hierarchical instincts are imprinted on human brains seems to cause people to automatically side with the leader/creator's opinions on these nerd issues, but to me I can't think of any way this just doesn't reek of ORIGINAL CHARACTERS, DO NOT STEAL sentiment.

>>17146811

Doujinshi is /a/ material, you giant homosexual faggot.

>>17146779
Dumb comparison and you know it. That would be like making copies of manga pages and selling it as a doujinshi. Doujinshis however, are (normally I would suppose) completely original.

So he puts his heart and soul into these niche shooting games for a small(er) group of gamers, but thinks that letting pros do an anime with characters from his game would destroy his fanbase, or taint it?

People will still buy his games, the same ones that always do. And he'd make more money licensing the "world" of Touhou to big companies.

But he won't, because he's too selfish. He cares only about his creation's recognition, not the fans. They could be praising him for his brilliant character designs (lol).

That to me is already selling out far worse than giving rights to studios to produce more fans and happier fans.

>>17146834
touhou isn't, anime or not, it's /jp/. you fuckers wanted your own board, now stay there

>>17146838

Not completely They "steal" character designs and the brand name. Those may not mean much to the average nerd, but they are dead serious business under court of law.

>>17146863
I don't think they really "wanted" their own board. They were more or less forced there.

ITT: we confuse doujin for doujinshi

>>17146863

Cry harder, faggot.

Touhou is /a/ again and it's here to stay.

^_^

>>17146859
He wants Touhou to be about his games. It isn't selfish for him to not want his creation turned into an anime because, lets' be fair, it would probably be awful. I think it's you that's being selfish in this case.

>>17146859

An artist not wanting somebody else to steal his show? SHOCK AND HORROR!!

Here's how an artist thinks: FUCK MONEY, MONEY ISN'T IMPORTANT, I WANT MY FUCKING FANS. He's already shown incredible magnamosity by encouraging people to do those comics in the first place, even more so than normal copyright holders (who already are nice for allowing any doujins to exist at all).

>>17146863

No, Moot wanted us to have our own board. It just so happens that part of that board crosses over into /a/ territory... again (not that it ever should have been taken away).

Unless you want to sage and "gb2/c/ or /e/" every other fucking thread on this board, piss off.

He just doesn't want this to happen:

-Hey, do you like touhou?
-Nah, I found it a very boring anime/mango. Code Geass is much better.
-FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

>>17146899

Might be because they're synonyms, asshole.

>>17146948
Touhou isn't even that good, faggot.

>>17146863 (and others)
/a/ rules
1.All images and resulting discussion should pertain to anime or manga. For long-term series discussion, please refer to the /anime/ board.

Sure is angsty faggot in here.

What's the big deal with Touhou, anyway? I've never really followed the fanfare.

The screenshots look kind of stupid, if you ask me.

>>17146931

Close, but not quite. True art isn't about money OR fans. It's about getting to do your own thing and show it off. Money and fans may be nice, but they're secondary.

>>17146838
Dumb comparisons are useful against dumb assertions, as they highlight the stupidity of the claim they are posted in response to

Blah blah blah.

Here's Reimu.

>>17146969
>please refer to the /anime/ board.

Nobody uses the text boards because they're filled with /b/ faggotry.

>>17147000
>I have no response so I'll claim I was intentionally making a stupid comparison.
Okay.

>>17147006
I'm telling ZUN on you for promoting the anime he hates

>>17146971
The doujin community for it is enormous. Here's a small selection of the translated stuff:
http://gallery.gensokyo.org/albums/mirror/

>>17146966
no they're not

>>17146971
lolis with godpowers mainly

the fanbase is built on a wide variety of doujin manga and music remixes based on a mediocre doujin game series

>>17147031
For instance:
Troll: Bush is exactly like Hitler!
Response: But HItler has a mustache and Bush doesn't!

Unless you want to take every idiot with a keyboard seriously, that is, in which case, good luck with that

>>17146929

>He wants Touhou to be about his games.

He wouldn't lose any of his game fans, if anything more would try his games. Or maybe he should have thought about his design and made them jets instead of cute girls bound to be doujinized.

>It isn't selfish for him to not want his creation turned into an anime because, lets' be fair, it would probably be awful.

So... he gives the cautious go-ahead for a doujin producer to have at it?

>>17146980

True art is about art itself and anything else can go straight to hell.

>>17146966
You completely missed the point.

>>17147010
I was just posting the first rule, nothing else. lrn2read

I figure the only reason ZUN doesn't go commercial like type moon is because his shooting games don't have much sell out potential.

>>17147062
>BAWWWWWW I WAS OWNED ON THE INTERWEBS MUST TRY TO SAVE FACE
Okay.

>>17147006
I'd give Reimu my "donations"
If ya know what I mean

>>17147096
Or maybe nobody has offered him the right contract yet

>>17147060

I'll have you know that the games (from PCB onwards) are fucking excellent. Imperishable Night alone has entertained me more than the commercial PC games published between 2006 and 2008 put together.

TOUHOU EMBODIES THE DOUJIN SPIRIT

ALLOWING A PROFESSIONAL STUDIO TO ACQUIRE IT WOULD DISHONOR ALL OF US

>>17147106
I have to assume you're just trolling at this point, since no real defense has been mounted to prove that everything is parody if you claim it is.

>>17147071
The Tsukihime "anime" didn't make me want to play the VN, that's for sure.

>>17147140
Are you serious?

Because if you are, I may as well play them if they're supposed to be that good.

>>17147140
Bullshit. It's a fucking shoot-em-up, if you look at it objectively, real games like Crysis and Deadspace are far more involved and entertaining.

Actually, you are all wrong. This is what's happening.
ZUN is using this as a publicity stunt in order to attract more fans. He will eventually support the anime after all the drama settles down.

Well played ZUN, well played.

>>17147189
No, he's trying to make the people behind the anime come begging to him with cash in hand

>>17147165

>play the VN

>>17147140
Meh, it's mediocre for its genre. Doesn't really bring anything new to the table, but I must admit that the bullet patterns are exceptionally pretty and some of the music is quite catchy.

>>17147204 + >>17147189

It's all coming together.

>>17147151
Making a blatant copy of something is not parody.

Using someone else's characters in your own work, that you created from scratch can be claimed to be parody.

I don't know what he's so worried of. The anime is made by Maikaze, and anybody who saw their last work know it'll be complete shit no matter how good the VAs are.

As for people starting to treat these voices as official, it's not like they haven't spoken in lots of IOSYS songs and flashes and such.