29 January 2010. Wikileaks on BBC Culture Show:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4o2ZGk1djTU

15 January 2010. Updated for messages on BBC consent and Cryptome comments revision.

14 January 2010

Subject: Consent Form
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 13:44:08 -0000
From: "Kieran Yeates" <Kieran.Yeates@bbc.co.uk>
To: "John Young" <jya@pipeline.com>

<<Generic Contributor Release Form LATEST VERSION PLEASE USE THIS.doc>>

Hi John,

I'm sorry I should have mentioned earlier but would you mind signing our consent form which means you agree for us to use your contributions on our programme? I'm not sure if it would reach you in time by post so I was hoping you could sign it electronically. This is a standard BBC release form but if you do have any questions then please let me know.

Best,

Kieran

Hi Kieran,

In exchange for the signed release attached would you please provide to me a copy of the complete raw interview, audio and video, interruptions and so forth.

And, as offered, a DVD of the show as aired would be most welcome.

Best regards,

John

John Young
251 West 89th Street, 6E
New York, NY 10024-1739
212-873-8700

Subject: BBC Culture Show Interview Request
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 14:33:40 -0000
From: "Kieran Yeates" <Kieran.Yeates[at]bbc.co.uk>
To: <jya[at]pipeline.com>

Dear John,

I am a researcher on The Culture Show, a flagship BBC arts and culture review programme. We're currently making a short film about the importance of online whistle-blowing and the wider cultural implications of anonymous leaking. I wondered whether you would be provisionally interested in being interviewed for this piece?

Best wishes,

Kieran Yeates | The Culture Show

BBC Vision Productions| The Media Centre | Room MC5 A3 | 201 Wood Lane | London | W12 7TQ
T: +44 (0)20 8008 5586 | M: +44 (0)7921 392 134| F: +44 (0)20 8752 6635

http://www.bbc.co.uk This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this.

Dear Kieran,

It will be a pleasure to be interviewed when that is covenient for you.

Best regards,

John Young
New York, NY
212-87-8700

Subject: RE: BBC Culture Show Interview Request
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 10:12:50 -0000
From: "Kieran Yeates" <Kieran.Yeates[at]bbc.co.uk>
To: "John Young" <jya[at]pipeline.com>

Thanks so much John. We're just trying to pin down our logistics but are hoping to film next week, probably on Thursday or Friday. My director was thinking that Skype would be the best way to conduct the interview, but we are very open to suggestions if you would prefer another way. Also, just to let you know that our reporter is Jacques Peretti, a journalist who frequently writes for British newspapers.

Please do let me know if I can be of further assistance,

Kieran

Kieran,

Sorry, I do not use Skype due to its lack of privacy protection. Can it be done by telephone?

I'd prefer to fly to beautiful Britain but airline security is inadequate.

John
212-873-8700

Subject: RE: BBC Culture Show Interview Request
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 12:00:01 -0000
From: "Kieran Yeates" <Kieran.Yeates[at]bbc.co.uk>
To: "John Young" <jya[at]pipeline.com>

Of course. I think we can conduct the interview by phone - I'm just checking the logistics of this with my director here. Obviously, with your consent, we would need to record the phone call so I'll try and find a high quality line we can use, I do hope this is alright.

Best,

Kieran

Subject: FW: BBC Culture Show Interview Request
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 16:08:57 -0000
From: "Kieran Yeates" <Kieran.Yeates[at]bbc.co.uk>
To: "John Young" <jya[at]pipeline.com>

Hi John,

Sorry to bombard you with emails today! I was wondering whether you would be willing to go to our New York bureau to conduct the interview through an ISDN line (a better quality than by phone) next week? It's on 450 West 33rd Street. Is that convenient to get to for you?

Hi Kieran,

Yes, that is not far from me. Ready when you are.

John

Hi Kieran,

For you I have installed Skype. Never used it before. If you prefer it, run a test.

ID: xxxxx.xxxx

Or a visit to your studio is still an option.

John

Subject: RE: FW: BBC Culture Show Interview Request
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 11:04:23 -0000
From: "Kieran Yeates" <Kieran.Yeates[at]bbc.co.uk>
To: "John Young" <jya[at]pipeline.com>

Hi John,

Would you be free from 11.30am tomorrow morning (your time) to talk with us on Skype?

Best,

Kieran

Kieran,

Yes, tomorrow at 11:30 AM is good. However, since I have never used Skype we should do a trial run beforehand. Do you want video as well as audio?

Regards,

John

Hi Kieran,

Most tnteresting session. Could you provide the names of the gentleman doing the interview and and the lady to whom you introduced me?

Do you have schedule for airing the piece?

Best regards,

John

Subject: RE: BBC Culture Show Interview Request
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 16:27:24 -0000
From: "Kieran Yeates" <Kieran.Yeates[at]bbc.co.uk>
To: "John Young" <jya[at]pipeline.com>

Hi John,

Please excuse my lack of contact today - another day out of the office I'm afraid. Thank you again for yesterday, it was incredibly kind of you to give us so much of your time and I feel your contributions will make a brilliant addition to our piece. The name of the present was Jacques Peretti and the director was Clare Tavenor.

We'll be airing the piece on the 28th of Jan. I'd be more than happy to send you a DVD of the finished programme if you were able to provide an address.

Best wishes,

Kieran

BBC recorded the interview by Skype, with many interruptions on Skype. Cryptome's brief for comparison with the BBC version:

After a few general questions about Cryptome, the main topic was Wikileaks.

BBC: Could you explain your relationship to Wikileaks?

Cryptome: None since initial discussions in private email when Wikileaks was in formation. See files on Cryptome for more on that.

BBC: Do you agree with the phrase "Wikileaks has probably produced more scoops in its short life than the Washington Post has in the past 30 years."

Cryptome: Don't know.

BBC: Do you think Wikileaks will lead to a revolution in media?

Cryptome: No.

BBC: What do you think of Wikileaks?

Cryptome: An outstanding operation.

BBC: What do you think is wrong with Wikileaks?

Cryptome: It needs to be supplemented with many more outlets for prohibited information to reduce the likelihood Wikileaks and other outlets will be targeted for takedown, co-opted by the authorities or become distrusted by orchestrated leaks to it by its opponents of contaminated information -- a common means and methods of authorities. A single outlet cannot endure and provides an easy target for the opposition.

BBC: What do you think about Wikileaks being based in a country which will protect it from takedown.

Cryptome: There is no place where a takedown cannot occur. The distribution system for communication can always be blocked and servers confiscated. Only multiple, growing and changing public outlets for prohibited information can offer a chance of avoiding shutdown, demonization, corruption through finance and bribery and orchestrated distrust.

BBC: What do you think about the future of whistleblowing like that of Wikileaks?

Cryptome: It is a very valuable step in the right direction but more outlets are needed that do not require secrecy and confidentiality of their operation -- these practices mirror those of authorities. There are risks to being open and identifiable, but operating in secrecy is not the only answer. Attention should be paid to the multitude of transparent sources of information to diminish the misleading allure of confidential leaks. Leaks need capacious context from open sources to understand and judge their significance. Alone they are treacherous. Confidential leaks have become a tool for disseminating contaminated information, whether by government, commerce, institutions or individuals. Due to the growth in the lucrative and ego-boosting leakage industry, leaks have become suspect as a reliable source of information. "Anonymous sources," "revealed by those not authorized to speak about the matter," "unnamed officials," and leakage are now brands used to promote products as if credible and worthy when their principal purpose is to vaunt the reputation of the source and the outlet. There are quite effective if more subtle and intellectually demanding ways than leaks to reliably provide to the public prohibited information.

It should be noted that "open source" has become suspect since it was adopted by the spies as a means to gather public information then classify it, or used as means to harvest public data and then declared confidential business information. Classified and confidential open source is a contradiction for what is not in the public realm cannot be challenged and discussed, an essential characteristic of reliable open source information.

Secret and confidential information is never reliable because it leads to closed and self-deluded intelligence (intellectual and spy product). In that sense, leaks, which are bred by secrecy and confidentiality, are suspect due to their restricted provenance. Leaks only become believable by placing them in a reliable open source context, challenge and debate, which it should be recalled, was the original intention of Wikileaks, hence its original open wiki aspect now abandoned in favor of assertion (Wikileaks has commented on its lack of public wikiness).

BBC: What do you think will be the impact of Internet information outlets on old media?

Cryptome: Old media will adopt the practices of new outlets for delectable hyperbole, scorn and braggardy.

BBC: What do you think about security of web sites and communication on the Internet.

Cryptome: There is none that is not superficial and illusory. Security and/or privacy policy for the Internet and digital communication are unbelievable. Digital communication should be seen as a spying machine. The Internet is a magnificently appealing means to gather data on its bewitched users -- for harvesting by governments, commerce, institutions and individuals, but especially by the providers of Internet services, distribution systems and equipment.

BBC: Why are you so paranoid about the Internet and what do you think is possible for its use in providing more public information?

Cryptome: Skepticism, not paranoia, about the Internet and digital communication is self-protective because their managers and operators are inaccessible to public scrutiny under claims of secrecy and confidentiality, and are therefore publicly unaccountable.

In their favor, the Internet and digital communication can be beneficial to share information and opinions for discussion and critique by participants, but should be viewed skeptically when consuming services, products, authority, authenticity, trustworthiness and reputability. Nothing new in this, skepticism about secret authority is an ancient counter to abuse of privilege and trust.

Whistleblowing, which has many open and surreptitious forms other than leaks, should be seen as a necessary opposition to increasing secrecy and confidentiality in government, commerce and biased institutions; the practice should be encouraged as a civic responsibility; it should be varied and widespread around the world; it should be independent of government, commerce and biased institutions. In its best form, it is performed by individuals in all their great variety and ingenuity of imagination, communication, argumentation and conviction without intervention by interest-biased mediators. For this, the Internet is a grand, wild experiment which will always be threatened by unaccountable managers, censorship, contamination, exploitation, takeover, even takedown, by those who want to control and profit from information and communications by secrecy and confidentiality.

BBC: Thank you.

Cryptome: Thank you.